Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756586 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #600 on: February 23, 2011, 08:33:05 AM »



Dear Anil.

Yes.  In the Invocatory Verse, which was specially done by
Sri Bhagavan, He says that Sri Sankara,  and Himself, are
only the Self.

'Can Sankara, the enlightener of the Self, be different from one's
own Self?'.  Who but he, does this day, abiding as the inmost Self in
me, speak this in the Tamizh language?'

Sri Bhagavan had done it at the request of one Moslem devotee.
The Tamizh verses were then rendered in English prose by
Arthur Osborne.   



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #601 on: February 23, 2011, 08:46:41 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I wish to cite four Verses from the Srimad Bhagvad Gita which teach that there are no doer, or agents to work other than the three gunas of the Prakriti.

“ nanyam gunebhyah kartaram
yadadrastanupasyati
gunebhyas ca param vetti
madbhavam sodhigacchati ”
When the seer perceives no agent (doer) other than the modes,and knows also that which is beyond the modes, he attains to My being.
                                                              V. 14-19, Srimad Bhagvad Gita
“Nan’yam gunebhyah kartaram- yada drasta’nupasyati”
‘When the seer perceives no doer, or agents other than the three modes of Prakriti’, only then the identity of the seer with the Brahman becomes manifest.

“ When the embodied soul rises above these three modes that spring from the body, it is freed from birth, old age and pain and attains life eternal.”
                                                                    V. 14-20, Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
In the above Verse, the term ‘ dehasamudbhavan’ has been used by the Lord meaning  “three modes that spring from the body’ clearly implying that the three modes are caused by the body and also are the seed out of which the body is evolved. Sri S. Radhakrishanan, in his commentary on the above Verse says that even sattvika goodness is imperfect since this goodness has for its condition the struggle with its opposite. The moment the struggle ceases and the goodness becomes absolute, it ceases to be goodness and goes beyond all ethical compulsion. By developing the nature of sattva, we rise beyond it and obtain transcendent wisdom.

“ He who sees that all actions are done only by nature (prakriti) and likewise that the self is not the doer, he verily sees.”
                                                                         V. 13-29, Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
So, it follows that the one who sees a Jnani active verily does not see.

He who thus knows soul (purusa) and nature (prakriti) together with the modes, though he acts in every way, he is not born again.
                                                                   V. 13-23, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

The one who knows tattva of both Purusa and Prakriti is not born again. This means that he does not see the Self as the doer and know that the Prakriti with its modes is alone the doer.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil

         
                                                                                 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #602 on: February 23, 2011, 01:02:14 PM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Some of these ideas have also been expressed by Sri
Bhagavan in ULLadu Narpadu.  He calls it as Muppazh or Pazh.
i.e. Three Voids. What are these voids?

- seer, seen,  and the sight.

- waking, dream and deep sleep.

- I, You and He [or She]

All these are mere appearances.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #603 on: February 23, 2011, 03:40:40 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Body, mind and temporal life belong to nature. Nature, internal as well as external, is not free. It is bound by ‘Law’. I feel that this is what is implied when Sri Bhagwan says ‘For so the Lord ordains it’ in V-1, Upadesa Saram.

Action yields fruit,
For so the Lord ordains it.
 How can action be the Lord ?
It is insentient.
                            V-1, Upadesa Saram
Action being itself insentient, fruits of the action are according to the ‘Law’ ordained by the Lord.

“ If we are the doers of deeds, we should reap the fruits they yield. But when we question, ‘Who am I, the doer of this deed ?’ and realize the Self, the sense of agency is lost and the three karmas slip away. Eternal is this liberation.”
                                                      V-38, Ulladu Narpadu
Sri Bhagwan says that the sense of agency is lost, when we realize the Self. The spurious ego attributes to itself the agency for action whereas the ‘Law of Nature’ is in operation. Since Nature is subject to Law, the ego, acting under the compulsion of the Nature only, cannot be free. Sri Bhagwan says that with Realization of the Self, the ego disappears and  along with the ego disappear  all sense of agency.

While all kinds of work are done by the mode of nature, he, whose soul is bewildered by the self-sense, (ahamkaravimudhatma), ego , thinks “ I am the doer.”
                                                                                                                      V. 3-27, Srimad Bhagavad Gita
Ahamkara-vimudh –atma  thinks  “I am the doer” forgetting the determinism of the Nature.

But he who knows the true character of the two ditinctions ( of the soul )from the modes of nature and their works, O Mighty-armed ( Arjuna ), understanding that it is the modes which are acting on the modes, does not get attached.
                                                                                                                       V. 3-28, Srimad Bhagvad Gita
Thank you so much sir.
Regards,
  Anil       

 
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #604 on: February 24, 2011, 08:04:45 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Three Voids are mere appearances (w.r.t. your post, re-632). The Trinity (Trputi) of knower, known and knowledge is a mere appearance on the substratum of the Self, All-powerful Existence.

Power implies movement. Sri Bhagwan says in Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi that ‘Though Ishwara moves by His Power (Shakti), which is movement, He transcends the movement. He is achala, atita’.
There is One All-powerful Existence, One Truth. We are prone to losing sight of this cardinal truth on account of the diversity that keep presenting in the empirical world forgetting the unity behind. Sri Bhagwan says that the Power (Shakti) is not different from the Powerful (Shakta). If we look at the movement alone, we call it Shakti, Power. Sri Bhagwan says that if we settle ourselves ‘in the support of the movement’, we call it Asraya, Achala. Former is the activity of the latter. I f the movement due to the Shakti, Power is activity, vyapara, the latter is the VASTU, the SUBSTANCE which is the Ashray, the support of the Movement, the power, the Shakti. So, It  is Vastu and Shakti, or Substance and Force. Can they remain independent of each other ? Sri Bhagwan says that they are inseparable, and are indeed two aspects of the same Reality. But here, in my view, the most important thing to remember is that the Reality, the Real Substance cannot be known without the Movement of the Power, without the Shakti vyapara. I quote below V. !2-20, Ramana Gita, which has also been quoted in the Sat-Darshana Vahya and Talks with Maharshi as following :

“Only without the Shakti vyapara or the movement of the power, the Real substance is not apprehended. ( Bina shaktim narashreshtha swarupaam na pratiyate). V. 12-20, Ramana Gita

The Mother, Shakti is coeval with the Eternal Father Ishwara. Sri Bhagwan says that SHE has no independent existence apart from HIM. It is the eternal activity (vyapara) of Ishwara, creating myriads of worlds.

What happens to the Shakti, the Power when all the worlds are dissolved in time and there is no creative movement ? Sri Bhagwan says that Shakti does not perish and still persists in activity through lying latent. Following lines from Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi are quoted as follows :

“Every moment there is creation, every moment destruction. There is no absolute creation, no absolute destruction. Both are movement, and that is eternal.
   But this whole movement, the creation, called a play of Shakti is a formulation of the Lord ( Ishwara kalpana). If this Kalpana is transcended, what remains is SWARUPA.”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
                                                     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #605 on: February 24, 2011, 09:26:18 AM »



Dear Anil,

There are two or three verses in ULLadu Narpadu, which describe the
various types of Void.

Verse 12:  True Knowledge is being devoid of knowledge as well
as the ignorance of objects.  Knowledge of objects is not true knowledge.  Since the Self shines self-luminous, with nothing
else for It to know, with nothing else to know It, the Self is Knowledge.  It is not void.

Verse 14:  'You' and 'He' -- these appear only when 'I' does.  But
when the nature of the 'I' is sought and the ego is destroyed, 'You'
and 'He' are at an end.  What shines then as the One alone is the
true Self.

Verse 15:  Past and Future are dependent on the present.  The
past was present in its time and the future will be present too.
Ever-present is the present. To seek to know the future and the
past, without knowing the truth of time NOW, is to try to count
without the number 'One'.

Verse 19:  The debate, 'Does free will prevail or fate?' is only
for those who do not know the root of both.  Those who have
known the Self, the common source of free-will and fate, have
passed beyond them both and will not return to them.     




Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #606 on: February 24, 2011, 10:15:20 AM »
Sri Bhagwan says that Shakti,0r Power is coeval with the eternal Iswara. It has no existence apart from Him.Shakti is the eternal activity (Vyapara). But the play of Shakti is a formulation of the Lord. Sri Bhagwan has termed this formulation as Kalpana ( Imagination). If this Kalpana is transcended One is only Swarupa.

“ Just as the Sun causes all worldly movements, so do I-the ever present , conscious Self- cause the mind to be active and the senses to function. Again, just as ether is all-pervading yet devoid of any specific qualities, so am I free from all qualities.”
                                                                                        V-3, Hastamalaka Stotra

All-pervading  ‘I’ is just as all-pervading ether. However, one should remember that ether is insentient but All-pervading ‘I’ is Pure Knowledge, or Pure Intelligence.

“I am the Conscious Self, ever present and associated with everything in the same manner as heat is always associated with fire. I am that eternal, undifferentiated, unshaken consciousness, on account of which the insentient mind and senses function, each in its own manner.”
                                                                                               V-4, Hastamalaka Stotra

The insentient mind and the senses function in the presence of ‘I’, the Pure Intelligence, each in its own manner, according to their prakriti and bound by the ‘Law’, Law of Karma (Action).

Thank you,
    Anil

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #607 on: February 24, 2011, 01:47:35 PM »



Dear Anil,

The mind with the Self behind it, sees the world.  When the mind
after sadhana and attention towards the Self., sees the Self.  But
in between for some period, the mind sees the Void.  This is what
Buddhists called as Soonya.  Buddha is said to have stopped with
this Soonya, Void.  But Vivekachoodamani says that if sadhaka proceeds further asking 'Who is seeing this soonya?' then the Self
reveals itself and the mind / Self sees only the Self.  All worlds,
Iswara, the personal god and the Jivas the individual self are all
then seen as the Self.



Arunachala Siva.   
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #608 on: February 24, 2011, 04:00:58 PM »
Dear  Sri Subrammanian Sir,

Thank you so much for explaining in proper persepective the void that a seeker encounters at a certain stage during their sadhana. Mind used seeing the external world since millions of years is bewildered when its attention is unwaveringly and steadfastly drawn towards the Self,and, as a result does not see the world of phenomena, so far accustomed to seeing only that. Non-seeing of the external world appears as a void. Sri Bhagwan and also Vivekchoodamani says that on seeing such void, the seeker should not mistake it for the Real, but, instead, should ask, "Who sees this void ?" Someone must be present even there to say that one sees the void. Thus, the mind is finally merged into the Self and the Self is revealed.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #609 on: February 25, 2011, 06:43:28 AM »
Sri Bhagwan says that  Realization is neither a state of sunya ( blankness) nor of ignorance. It is the Swarupa ( Real Self ) in which the object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together and Absolute Consciousness alone reins supreme.

In Talk no. 220, a very beautiful stanza from the Tiruvachakam  was quoted by Sri Bhagwan in which mind is addressed  as follows :

“ O humming bee (namely, mind) ! Why do you take the pains of collecting tiny specks of honey from innumerable flowers ? There is one from whom you can have the whole storehouse of honey by simply thinking or seeing or speaking of Him. Get within and hum to Him (hinkara).”

All the joys and pleasures that one can conceive of in the world of the empirical usage is only a soiled reflection of the Supreme Bliss. Only if the mind can go within and hum to Him !

Thank you,
     Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #610 on: February 25, 2011, 06:48:19 AM »
Contrary to truth, the objects perceived by the senses are termed as the direct or the immediate perception. Sri Bhagwan asks ,” can anything be as direct as the Self ?-always experienced without the aid of the senses ?” Knowledge gained by sense-perception cannot be direct or the immediate knowledge. Such knowledge, obviously, at best, is indirect. Sri Bhagwan says that only our own awareness is the direct knowledge , as is the common experience of one and all.No aids are needed to know our own Self. Nor do we require senses to be ‘aware’.

Truth is innocently so simple. But the mind is addicted to intricacies. It first creates complex problems and then relishes with glee solving them.

Sri Bhagwan says that unbroken ‘I-I’ is the ocean infinite, the ego, ‘I’- thought, remains only a bubble on it and is called jiva, i.e. individual soul.The bubble too is not different from the ocean. It is also water. When it bursts, it mixes in the ocean. But when it is bubble , it is still a part of the ocean.

“ Ignorant of this simple truth, innumerable methods under different denominations, such as yoga, bhakti, karma…… each again with many modifications, are being taught with great skill and in intricate detail only to entice the seekers and confuse their minds. So also are the religions and sects and dogmas. What are they all for ? Only for knowing the Self. They are aids and practices required for knowing the Self.”
                                                      Talks, no. 92
The great Poet Sri Milton sang that mind is its own palace. In itself,  it creates hell out of heaven and heaven out of hell. ( cited from memory )

Thank you ,
   Anil         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #611 on: February 25, 2011, 06:59:39 AM »
Are we discussing this much without Grace of the Guru ? It is impossible. Sri Bhagwan says, " Grace is the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self ". Grace is the primaryy cause. Everything else is of secondary importance. Its importance can be understood by the number of times Sri Bhagwan has mentioned 'Grace' in the Akshar Mana Malai.

Therefore, Grace is all. Isn't it ?

Thank you,
    Anil

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #612 on: February 25, 2011, 09:22:29 AM »



Dear Anil,

Sri Lakshamana Sarma mentions about the grace of God or Guru,
in his Sri  Ramana Paravidyopanishad.

Devotion is taught as being of two kinds, according to the degree
of ripeness of the devotees.  In the beginning, it is devotion like
that of the baby monkey, and afterwards devotion is that of the kitten.

After practicing devotion like that of the baby monkey through a great many lives, in the end, when his egoism greatly reduced, he
practices devotion like the kitten.

The devotion that is like the kitten is the same as taking refuge at the feet of God and self-surrender to him.  This devotion, becoming further purified by the refinement of the mind, becomes equal to right awareness in the course of time.

The path beyond effort, which is surrender, comes to one only through God's or Guru's grace.  That is why this way is extolled
as "the faultless way of the kitten."

A kitten makes no effort to hold onto its mother.  When the mother wants to move, it picks up the kitten and takes it with her.  Baby monkeys, on the other hand, need to make an effort to cling to the chests of their mothers, when their mothers move around.  These two mothering techniques are widely used analogies in Hindu texts that discuss the necessity or otherwise of spiritual effort.  [David
Godman].



Arunachala Siva.       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #613 on: February 26, 2011, 07:26:38 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Devotion like the baby monkey and the kitten monkey are very apt analogies to understand the necessity or otherwise of the spiritual effort. I had not been aware of this analogy before you discussed it in one of your previous posts. After you pointed out about it, I keenly watched the behaviour of both the baby as well as the kitten monkey and learnt the meaning and implication of partial and complete surrender.  Thank you so much sir. I cannot express my gratitude in words.

Dear sir, you have mentioned in your post that ‘path beyond surrender comes to one through God’s or Guru’s Grace’. I wish to say that even effort to realize the Self is not possible without God’s or Guru’s Grace.

Sri Bhagwan :  Grace is within you. If it is external it is useless. Grace is the Self. You are never out of its operation. Grace is always there.
Grace is the Self. I have already said, ” If you remember Bhagwan, you  are prompted to do so by the Self.” Is not Grace already there ? Is there a moment when Grace is not operating in you ? Your remembrance is the forerunner of Grace. That is the  response, that is the stimulus, that is the Self and that is Grace.
                                                                                   Talks, no. 251

Sri Bhagwan says that Grace is both beginning and end. Introversion is due to Grace. Perseverance is Grace and, of course, Realization is Grace. And elsewhere Sri Bhagwan says that if one has entirely surrendered there is no part left to ask for Grace. He is swallowed alive by Grace.

Sri Bhagwan says that there never can be moment when the Self is not realized. Grace is the Self. So, it follows that there never can be a moment when Grace is not realized. Grace is within. All our efforts, put in knowingly or unknowingly, in this birth or in  previous  births, purification and perseverance, all are prompted by Grace only. This is why  Grace is said to be the primary, most efficient and divine cause.

Regards,
  Anil 

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #614 on: February 26, 2011, 08:34:56 AM »
It is impossible to see the Divine Dance of Self Knowledge (the Sphurana,” I-I”) in the Heart, until the dance of the rebellious mind is destroyed by the Divine Power of the Sword of Mei-Jnana ( Right Knowledge ), wielded by the great hero, the Sadguru, who has already beheaded the ghost, (His own) mind.
                                        V. 282, GVK , Tr. Sri Sadhu Om


Sri Sadh Om says that Lord Shiva’s Divine Dance in the ‘smasana’ cannot be seen until the dancing of the ghosts always present there is not stopped. Likewise, this Verse says that the Divine Dance of the Sphurana , “I-I”, which is the significance of of the Dance of Nataraja, until the rebellious mind-ghost, which dances as ‘I’, is beheaded by the Grace of the Sadguru.



Just as the sight of a loin appearing in its dream will awaken an elephant from sleep, so also the Darshan of the Sadguru will awaken the disciple from the dream  of this present waking state, which is merely an illusion, into the state of Jnana.
                                                V.-283, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om


Even our present waking state is a dream. Dream always happens upon the background of sleep. So, here, our apparent forgetfulness of Pure Self-Consciousness is being referred to as the sleep upon which the drama of the present waking state is playing. Sri Sadhu Om says that what is destroyed by the Sadguru is not only the drama of our present waking state, but also the much prolonged sleep of Self-forgetfulness, which is the background of all these dreams, our many deaths and births.


Just as a deer caught in the jaws of a tiger (cannot escape), so those who are caught by the glance of the Sadguru’s Grace will never be abandoned, but, having their ego and vasanas completely destroyed, they will realize the non-dual Truth.
                                                                                         V. 284, GVK, Tr Sri Sadhu Om


“ To be destroyed is to be saved.” This well-known simile was first used by Sri Bhagwan In ‘Who am I ?’ Sri Muruganar says that a deer caught in the jaws of a tiger would generally be considered to be an object of pity, since it will certainly be devoured. Yet, Sri Bhagwan uses this as a simile to console devotees and to assure them that they can never escape from the Sadguru, and will surely be saved by Him. He is the mighty Tiger who will consume the ego, the root of all miseries.

Thank you,
   Anil