Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756637 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #570 on: February 18, 2011, 09:29:11 AM »



Dear Anil,

In this connection, I am posting a story about mosquitoes. Once
a devotee asked Sri Bhagavan:  "Whether it is alright, if I swat
the mosquitoes when they bite me during my meditation?"  Sri
Bhagavan said: "You can do as it suits you.  Just because you do not swat  mosquitoes, you will not get moksha. Or just because, you swat mosquitoes, moksha will not be denied to you [if you otherwise deserve it].  But in true and intense  meditation, you will never feel that mosquitoes are biting you at all!"



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #571 on: February 18, 2011, 01:46:30 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said to His devotees to keep away from mosquitoes if their bite causes distraction during meditation. However, in true and intense meditation there is no room for thought, not even the thought of mosquitoe bite. Therefore, till Realization one should not unduly keep on worrying whether one should swat mosquitoes or not. One should do what suits him till Realization. Sri Bhagwan says that after Realization such question will not arise .

Sri Bhagwan says, " When the questioning takes strong hold of you, you cannot think of other thoughts ".

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #572 on: February 18, 2011, 02:25:20 PM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan once said:  "You are all telling that you are not
able to control or stop the thoughts.  For me, I am telling why no
thought is coming!"  To think, there must be another person or object or creature to think about.  If nothing else is there, at least there must be ego, to say that I shall have to do this today etc.,   For a Self realized Jnani, who is the Self, the one without a second, where is another person, or object or creature or even the ego to think about?



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #573 on: February 19, 2011, 08:44:18 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

So long as one believes in the objective world and objects of the world continue to interest, it is well-nigh impossible to attain quietude of the mind. Srimad Bhagavad Gita says that one should gradually, gradually attain quietude with intellect held steadfast and the mind sunk in the Self, allowing no thought to arise. And also, to whatever side the restless, unsteady mind wanders away, one should check it and bring it back controlled to the Self. ( V-25, & V-26 )

Dear sir, before coming to Sri Bhagwan, whenever  I read the above cited verses from the  Sacred Gita, I felt at a loss, some sort of inadequacy. I didn’t know what to do. But the moment I experienced Sri Bhagwan’s Grace, these and other Verses from the Gita and a few other scriptures became lighted , as I mentioned earlier, and acquired new meaning. This inspired me to say that Sri Bhagwan delivered the liberating Verses of the Gita as Lord Sri Krishna and and taught them to His adoring devotees as Guru Sri Ramana.

Mere  intellectual understanding without sadhana adds up to nothing. Sri Bhagwan, out of great compassion for the mankind, gave twin  infallible and secret weapons ‘Who Am I ?’ and ‘Whence Am I ?’ to cut at the very root of the empirical, conceptual and the objective world and bring back the all-important self-attention to Home i.e. the Self.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #574 on: February 19, 2011, 08:48:31 AM »
Sri Bhagwan says that one should not expect to get immediate answer to the ‘Who Am I ?’ question. Any answer that the mind suggests will only be a mental answer. It is settled that the mind and the intellect cannot reach the Self from which they rise and which is their Source. The purpose of the intellect is to realize this truth and keep silent allowing attention to refocus on the subjective consciousness.

Vichara to be effective, the first step, in my view, is to accept that ‘ I do not know myself’. Only then ‘Who Am I ? ‘ question  will become an existential question.  When I do not know  myself, there can be no answer to the ‘Who am I ?’ question. Silence then must inevitably follow. Sri Bhagwan says that the real answer would emerge from the depth of one’s being. Sri Bhagwan says  that real Vichara will begin only when one has acquired ability to remain focussed on the Self without thoughts.

Devotee : If I go on rejecting thoughts can I call it Vichara ?
Sri Bhagwan : It may be a stepping stone. But really Vichara begins when you cling to the Self and are already off the mental movement, the thought-waves.
Devotee : Then Vichara is not intellectual ?
Sri Bhagwan : No, it is Anthara Vichara, inner quest.
Devotee : That is dhyana ?
Sri Bhagwan : To stick to a position unassailed by thoughts is abhyasa or sadhana; you are watchful. But the condition grows intenser  and deeper when your effort and all responsibilities are taken away from you; that is Aroodha, Sidhi state.
                                                                                  Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi

Sri Bhagwan says that rejection of thoughts is only a stepping stone. So, the first step is to shift back the attention from the thoughts to the thinker himself. Remaining attentive to one’s Self would effectively curb the mental movement and check the thought-waves. Lack of the mental movement and thought-waves will certainly take Vichara to a sublime plane. Real Vichara has then begun.

Thank you,
   Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #575 on: February 19, 2011, 09:36:35 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes. It is the mind which by its movement causes appearance of the world, jiva and Iswara.  While the old scriptures used the "not this", "not this"  method, Neti Neti, to find out the true nature of I, Sri Bhagavan recommended the question Who am I?  The answers
would keep on coming. But after continuous sadhana, the 'I' will
quell as the true "I-I".  Naan [in Tamizh] will end as Than, [the Self]. It requires effort and perseverance. Otherwise to quell the mind, one can chant mantra like Siva, Siva or Rama, Rama etc.,  The aim in both is to quell the mind.   

The Self is Sat Chit Anandam, the Existence, All-Knowledge and
Bliss.



Arunachala Siva.

snow

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #576 on: February 19, 2011, 02:03:31 PM »
Quote
Devotee : If I go on rejecting thoughts can I call it Vichara ?
Sri Bhagwan : It may be a stepping stone. But really Vichara begins when you cling to the Self and are already off the mental movement, the thought-waves.
Devotee : Then Vichara is not intellectual ?
Sri Bhagwan : No, it is Anthara Vichara, inner quest.
Devotee : That is dhyana ?
Sri Bhagwan : To stick to a position unassailed by thoughts is abhyasa or sadhana; you are watchful. But the condition grows intenser  and deeper when your effort and all responsibilities are taken away from you; that is Aroodha, Sidhi state.
Could someone translate these terms please?

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #577 on: February 19, 2011, 03:11:57 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

‘I’ in the sentence, “ I am Anil” is a reflection of the Supreme Reality. There are as many ‘I’s as there are instruments (inner organs)  to reflect the Reality i.e. the Self. This ‘I’ is the fragmented abhasa of the One Unbroken Supreme Reality “I-I”. This ‘I’ appears and disappears where as “I-I” is ever present whether the fragmented and reflected ‘I’ is appearing or disappearing, whether aware or unaware.

By tracing the reflected sun in the bucket, one can locate and find out the real sun in the sky. The sun is ever present in the sky whether there is a reflection in the bucket or not. So also, the Eternal “i-I” is ever present  whether ego  ‘I’ appears or disappears.

Therefore, with effort and perseverance, Naan is certain to end up as Than.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has said that all Paths differ only in the beginning. They all converge in the end.

You have mentioned in your last post that ‘I’ will quell as “I-I”. May I ask why did you use the word ‘quell’ in the sentence ?

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #578 on: February 19, 2011, 03:15:05 PM »


Dear snow,

Arudha or Siddhi [not to be confused with supernatural powers]
means Attainment.  This is the stable, firm and effortless abidance in the Self in which the mind which has become one with the Self does not subsequently emerge again at any time.  That is, just as everyone usually and naturally has the idea, 'I am not a goat nor a cow, nor any other animal but a man', when he thinks of his body,
so also when he has the idea, "I am not the principles, [tattvas
like five elements etc.,] beginning with the body and ending with sound [Nada - where a Jnani or a Yogi listens to some strange sounds], but the Self which is existence, consciousness and bliss, the innate self consciousness, [Atma Prajna], he is said to have attained firm knowledge or Attainment.



Arunachala Siva.      

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #579 on: February 19, 2011, 03:17:33 PM »


Dear Anil,

Quelling means subsiding - the mind subsides as the Self.  Naan,
the little 'I' becomes Thaan 'I-I'.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #580 on: February 19, 2011, 03:37:28 PM »
Dear Sri snow,

'Aroodha' and 'Sidhi' state has been explained nicely By Sri Subramanian. R

Vichara here means the quest, the enquiry. Therefore, the Self-enquiry as taught by Bhagwan Sri Ramana was termed by Him as the 'Atma-Vichara.

'Anthra' means inner. Therefore, 'Anthra Vichara' mentioned in the quoted paragraph means 'Inner Quest' as opposed to searching outside of oneself. Meditation is 'Dhyana'. "Sadhana', or 'Abhyasa' means practice or efforts put in to realize the Self.

Thank you so much for your response.

Anil     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #581 on: February 19, 2011, 04:30:36 PM »



Dear Anil, snow,

The word Arudha is used by Sri Bhagavan in His Upadesa Manjari
a prose work, which is compiled by Natanananda on the basis of
his conversations with Sri Bhagavan.  This work which is in Collected
Works of Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, deals with various stages of practices.

Another prose work Vichara Sanghraham is the compilation of conversations Gambhiram Sesha Iyer had with Sri Bhagavan.  This
work apart from self inquiry, also deals with eight-limbed Yoga Marga, Ashtanga Yogam.



Arunachala Siva.
   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #582 on: February 20, 2011, 08:00:56 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Brahman is the only Reality and the Supreme  Self of all the  manifest  as well as the unmanifest. In Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi  authored by Sri K, it has been nicely explained that there are three distinct sense in which ‘I’ is used.
Paramartha:- The Supreme sense of ‘I’ is the Supreme Self, Unmanifest and infinite. So the ‘Param Arth’ , or the Supreme Meaning of the ‘I’ is the Purusha.
Lakshyartha:- Lakshyartha means the implied meaning. The Supreme Self Itself is the inner Self and support of all individual manifestations. Therefore, He is the real significance and the implied meaning of the ‘I’ in the individuals.
Vachyartha:-The immediate and apparent sense of ‘I’ is the ego.  Even the sense of the individual ‘I’, or the ego ‘I’ is a derivation from and the reflection of the Inner Self by whose covert support it poses as the individual self on the surface. This apparent self is formed temporarily for the purposes of individuation.

Thus, there are threefold sense in which ‘I’ should be understood.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #583 on: February 20, 2011, 09:01:39 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  However, Sri Bhagavan rhat the true nature of all the three
is only, the Self.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #584 on: February 20, 2011, 10:01:32 AM »
Man owes his movement to another power, whereas he thinks that he does everything himself-just like a lame man bluffing that, were he helped to stand up, he would fight and chase away the enemy. Action is impelled by desire; desire arises only after the rise of the ego; and this ego owes its origin to a Higher Power on which its existence depends. It cannot remain apart. Why then prattle, “ I do, I act, or I function ? ”
                                                       Talks, no. 210

Do we know that how many and what thoughts are going to overwhelm me today ? Even what thought is coming the next moment ? Have we any control over the thoughts ? Answer to all the above questions is ‘No’. Then Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Why prattle, I do, I act, I function ? “ Is it not akin to a cinema character asking the audience whether he can enact a scene of his choice ? This prattle will cease only when we look within seek for the prattler.

Thank you,
    Anil