Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758892 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5070 on: October 07, 2017, 05:49:03 AM »
Anil,
Warmly recommend this site which has the complete songs of Thayumanavar nicely translated by 'Dr B.Natarajan' (I have a hunch that it is Kavi Yogi Shuddhananda Bharati who has assumed this pseudo name)....there are a few inaccuracies but they do not detract from the beauty and sense of the original and is fairly well rendered.
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/the-songs-of-tayumanavar

I prefer that the translation should give a flavour of the original ...the word 'paraa parame' cannot be adequately translated and should be retained...to call it 'Supreme of supremes!' is a hyperbole that does not convey the intimacy and sweetness of the original...the translation by Dr natarajan mostly retains this flavour .

The Introduction to Thayumanavar's songs is very apt and one that I completely concur:
 "The hymns of Thayumanavar bring high solace to life; to hear them is to elevate life and soul. To live them is to enjoy the highest Bliss in spiritual consciousness. They are dynamic song-thrills that spark out of the Bliss-centre. Even a song a day will do to elevate human life towards Divine transcendence. Thayumanavar, is an out and out scripture for Saints and Yogins. It covers the entire field of Yoga and Jnana. It brings high solace to house-holders purifying their mind and heart. It feeds the flames of inner communion in real Yogins. There is not a single Tamilian who does not sing Thayumanavar and find joy in it. Every home cherishes it. Every mother puts her child to bed with its sweet symphony. The hymns of Thayumanavar are sublime music of the Soul, the song of the inner Spirits, and sparks of Divine Essence. It is very difficult to render them into another language. Any how I have ventured to do it during my silent hours of inner Communion with the immortal Spirit of the Saint. Now readers, imagine that the Saint is sitting in your heart while reading these rhythmic lines in deep ingathered tranquillity. They will exalt your thoughts and emotions to Supernal heights of peace and bliss."

The reference to the 'Tamilian' and his acquaintance with Thayumanavar is sadly no longer valid...but the Mahakavi Subramania Bharati has composed a poem in praise of Thayumanavar ...that the Sage is not just immortal in terms of his jnana but also through his living compositions,he is immortal even in this transient world!...that through his songs ,the sage  still continues to live amidst us inspiring us through his soul songs(jiva nadham).

What a prolific outpouring!....It is just not possible to pick and choose any song leaving aside others....they are all gems that have an alive and stirring quality about them...if there is one Sage whose heart echoes the travails and yearnings,the hope and joys of entire humanity,it is thayumanavar....there is not a shade of feeling or thought that is left uncovered or unrepresented here...and as such they have this fundamental and universal appeal...and the Sage freely makes use of Sanskrit and Tamizh words in a free flow,and it is quite accessible to anyone who has some acquaintance with the languages.

Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5071 on: October 07, 2017, 03:32:45 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
"What a prolific outpouring!....It is just not possible to pick and choose any song leaving aside others....they are all gems that have an alive and stirring quality about them...if there is one Sage whose heart echoes the travails and yearnings,the hope and joys of entire humanity,it is thayumanavar....there is not a shade of feeling or thought that is left uncovered or unrepresented here...and as such they have this fundamental and universal appeal...and the Sage freely makes use of Sanskrit and Tamizh words in a free flow, and it is quite accessible to anyone who has some acquaintance with the languages."


Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, thank you so much, bahi saheb. I visited the site you have recommended, and went through many sublime, profound and deeply moving and soul-stirring Verses of Songs of Sri Thaumanavar. However, this site is meant only for reading and I cannot download the book from it. Since I am not much accustomed to read on a computer screen, particularly spiritual contents, I would have liked to download the book, and read and contemplate as and when I liked. Yet, for now, I wish to read all the Verses of Sri Thaumanavar's holy Works on this site itself.

Dear Sri Ravi, during my college days I was very fond of reading the Newspaper  'The Hindu', though I received my copy belatedly here in Patna. Names of Great Ones, such as, Sri Thaumanavar, Sri Mannikavachagar and other Sages from Tamil Nadu were often mentioned and their Teachings discussed in the spiritual section of the Newspaper.  Although I didn't understand then what was discussed about their Teaching, nevertheless, I understood, that they were great Masters who shed light on spiritual truth and shone as bright spiritual stars in the spiritual firmament of our great nation. Therefore, I had learnt something about Sri Thaumanavar even before I came to Bhagwan Sri Ramana.

Dear Sri Ravi, a few members have also posted Sri Thaumanavar's Verses in different threads in this forum. Is the quality of the translation good enough and agreeable to you? Do they capture the sense and beauty of the original?

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 03:36:21 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5072 on: October 07, 2017, 04:07:58 PM »
The Infinite Expanse that filled the heavens;
The Delicious Ambrosia that filled at once
The expanse of my mind and the expanse of nana;
Oh! Thou the Great One that is Bliss Perpetual.

With heart surging in love and melting within;
With words faltering in joyous confusion;
With eyes streaming tears
And hands folded in meekness,
Let us Thy Grace contemplate.

Sri Thaumanavar, V. 10, PoruL VaNakkam

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5073 on: October 07, 2017, 05:02:55 PM »
D: Swami, once I had the vision of Lord Siva as a result of my sadhana. It gave me great happiness. How can I get this darshan again?
Sri Bhagwan: Who is the one that saw the from of Siva? Where did Siva rise from, remain in and subside? The Siva who was seen, the 'I' that saw Siva, and the act of seeing Siva--all took place in the consciousness 'I am'. This is a triputi. By enquiring, "Who is the 'I' that sees all this?", and turning your attention towards the pulsation 'I', the ego and along with it, all visions will disappear. The seer alone will remain, self-effulgent as pure Existence-Consciousness-Bliss.    This is the real Siva-experience. That which comes and goes is not permanent.






Dear devotees, the appearance of visions is also regarded as progress on the path of Love--Vichara, Worship or Japa. I also had visions on a few occasions but since He Himself has taught that a sincere sadhaka should not attach much importance to them, I didn't care.
I know that when the upasana of the worshipper of a form of his Deity matures, and the form of the worshipped Deity disappears, that is, the worshipper and the worshiped merges into One, the Self shines forth. 
 
However, in the above Teaching, Sri Bhagwan asks to turn attention to pulsation 'I', because the pulsation 'I' arises from the Self-'I' or I-God, and therefore, pulsation 'I' is the thread or the ray that leads one back to the Self or the Heart. Therefore, pulsation 'I' is the door to Eternity. When pulsation 'I' along with the concomitant ignorance disappears, abiding firmly in and as the Self, as pure Existence-Consciousness-Bliss, has been termed by Sri Bhagwan as Parabhakti. 

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 05:07:45 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5074 on: October 07, 2017, 06:41:55 PM »
Quote:
"the word 'paraa parame' cannot be adequately translated and should be retained...to call it 'Supreme of supremes!' is a hyperbole that does not convey the intimacy and sweetness of the original...the translation by Dr natarajan mostly retains this flavour."



Dear Sri Ravi, why did you term the translation of 'paraa parame' as 'Supreme of Supremes' a hyperbole? Though it is true that these terms cannot be accurately translated into English, it seems to me to be an adequate translation. It does not seem exaggerated to me. 
Pranam,
  Anil

« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 06:44:12 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5075 on: October 07, 2017, 08:36:02 PM »
Anilbhai,
You can download the entire book of Thayumanavar songs from that site...It allows you to download it in different formats ...the simplest one is the pdf....please refer to the box that mentions this option to download in this page:
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/the-songs-of-tayumanavar

As for the essence of the word 'para param'...it signifies that which is indefinable and transcendent and yet intimate and the only Reality...beyond the reach of thought and speech....and calling it 'supreme of Supreme' certainly does not convey this essence.

You have asked regarding the posting of Thayumanavar songs ...our good and esteemed friend Subramanian used to post from a different site but it is the same book by Dr Natarajan....it is not as well organized for downloading as the one that I have referred to.
This other site is:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/thayumanavar/
The Himalayan Academy is founded by a western disciple of Yogaswami (of Sri Lanka) and they follow the Saiva Siddhanta Tradition and also most importantly that which considers itself as not different than the advaitic tradition....the two are equivalent....In the Chapter on 'Siddha Elite',Thayumanavar emphasizes this samarasa or equivalence of these two great Traditions.
As such,the Himalayan Academy also offers other gems translated from Tamizh ....the Tirukkural and Tirumanthiram....You may like to explore those as well.
Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5076 on: October 08, 2017, 10:43:30 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, I have successfully downloaded and saved the 'Songs of Sri Thaumanavar' from the Himalayan Academy, and wish to explore, download and save Tirukural and Tirumanthiram as well, because whenever I have happened to come across sublime and soulful Verses from these two wonderful Works, they have struck deep chords within. Thanks very much, bhai saheb, for such solicitude and guidance.



Quote:
"As for the essence of the word 'para param'...it signifies that which is indefinable and transcendent and yet intimate and the only Reality...beyond the reach of thought and speech....and calling it 'supreme of Supreme' certainly does not convey this essence."



Yes, no translation can quite convey the intimacy and sweetness of the original, and if Sri Natarajan's Translation retains mostly the flavour of the original, as you have said, this is wonderful, and indeed a great achievement.

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:45:32 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5077 on: October 08, 2017, 11:59:05 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Three translations of the V.8 of Sri Arunachala Aksharamanamalai have found entry in the Collected Works:

a.   Display Thy beauty, for the fickle mind to see Thee forever and to rest in peace, Oh Arunachala!

b.   The strumpet mind will cease to walk the streets if only she finds Thee. Disclose Thy beauty then and hold her bound, Oh
        Arunachala!

c.   The mind by her unsteadiness prevents my seeking Thee and finding peace, grant me the vision of Thy beauty, Oh Arunachala!

 


Dear devotees, the real meaning and import of this Verse are so palpable in these translations themselves that even one who does not know Tamil can easily discern the 'content' and essence of the Verse, for, intuition will certainly help such a one grasp that in the Verse which needs to be grasped, if love for the Guru in the heart and the faith in His Teaching are there. 

Sri Arunachala is the Self, and therefore, 'Thy beauty' refers to the beauty of the Self. However, the mind, which has not yet inwardly perceived the beauty and the bliss-nature of the Atma-swarupa or the Self or the real 'I', in its unchanging, all-pervading and eternal nature, runs off and wanders amongst the worldly phenomena, on account of the force of the vasanas or the past impressions, that is, on account of the conditioned habits over endless births and deaths, from time immemorial.

Hence the need to petition Sri Arunachala! Sri Bhagwan prays to bestow His Grace and reveal to the mind the splendour of His beauty in order that its wandering tendencies are arrested and come to an end. So Sri Bhagwan prays thus:
"In Grace, reveal Your Beauty."
"In Grace, reveal Your splendour."
"In Grace, may You reveal the form of Your Light."

So, sense is obvious. If the world and outward appearances appear attractive and interesting to the mind, such a mind will continue to wander endlessly and aimlessly amongst the false and illusory phenomena.

Therefore, if such a mind gains within itself even glimpses, and experiences the beauty and bliss of the Self or the Atma-swarupa, which is far, far greater than all the attractions and all the beauty the world can offer, if Sri Arunachala (Self) thus reveals Himself to the mind, it (mind) will sure at once forget all the worldly things and phenomena entirely, begin to subside into the Swarupa, experience of the unalloyed peace beckoning him further on, till it subsides permanently into his own Self-nature, which is our Natural State.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil       
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:06:32 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5078 on: October 08, 2017, 12:25:41 PM »
Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan has Himself clarified that after His Death-Experience, the mind focussed attention on itself by a powerful fascination, and absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time on.  I wish to submit here that this 'powerful fascination' for the Divine 'within' is essential to prevent the mind from wandering outside oneself among the sense objects. Some gain it during initiation itself as the grant of the Grace of the Guru, which enables the seeker to have a glimpse of the Existence-Consciousness; some gain it through love and bhakti for the Guru and God, and yet some others by means of various sadhanas and upasanas. But powerful fascination one must have and cultivate, to progress in the realm of spirituality.

Pranam,
 Anil   
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:29:06 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5079 on: October 08, 2017, 02:46:15 PM »
When I go from hence let this be my parting word, that what I have seen is unsurpassable.

I have tasted of the hidden honey of this lotus that expands on the ocean of light, and thus am I blessed---let this be my parting word.

In this playhouse of infinite forms I have had my play and here have I caught sight of him that is formless.

My whole body and my limbs have thrilled with his touch who is beyond touch; and if the end comes here, let it come---let this be my parting word.

Gitanjali, Sri Rabindranath Tagore


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5080 on: October 08, 2017, 03:08:11 PM »
Sri Bhagwan: "The Srutis speak of the Self as being of the size of the thumb, the tip of the hair, a spark, subtler than the subtle, etc., etc. They have no foundation in fact. It is only Being. It is simply Being. People desire to see it as a blazing light, etc. How can it be? It is neither light nor darkness. It is only as It is, It cannot be defined. The best definition for It is 'I am that I am'."



Dear devotees, let us now go through Sri S.S. Cohen's comment on the Teaching as quoted above:

That settles it: we are not to take literally all the descriptions of the Self found here and there. If we do, then we will be giving form to the formless, name to the nameless, and attributes to the attributeless. All objective descriptions and comparisons of the Self are meaningless, and must stop at a point not too far away....................The beginner feels himself honestly lost in what appears to be a maze of inconsistencies and exaggerations, as witness these descriptions of the Self. The Jnani knows how to tackle the Upanishads. The veteran seeker likewise skims much of their cream, according to his intuitive maturity. The others take them literally and allow their imagination to run riot, or hold to their letter tenaciously but allow the spirit to slip through their fingers.

Bhagavan is keen that we have a notion of the Self which is divested of all analogies and sensory descriptions. The Self is pure Being. To be, by its very definition, means to exist, which negates nonexistence. Being therefore means eternal existence, which can be said of only an indestructible substance. But all objective things are destructible, being insentient. Therefore eternal existence can be predicted on only the be-ing which is pure sentience. This we call the Infinite Self or Supreme Consciousness which transcends all objectivity. What description or analogy can therefore fit it? Bhagavan finds a single definition which can do so, namely 'I am that I am', that is, the 'undefinable Being'.

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 03:12:18 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5081 on: October 09, 2017, 08:33:15 AM »
Anilbhai,
There are a few more important aspects as regards translating the hymns of the great ones and great care needs to be taken towards preserving those...and I thought that I will deliberate on a few of those.
1.The Hymns have a Rhythm and Cadence and the translation should reflect the same.
2.There is a mantra element in the refrain of these Hymns....they are meant for recitation and the sound of the words that are meant as a mantra are often employed as a refrain...they occur over and over again in the Hymns ....and these words should not be translated....For Instance ,in Bhagavan's Akshara mana malai,the verses end with the word 'Arunachala' ...and this mantra 'Arunachala' should be retained and cannot be translated as 'Red Hill' or any other such word.....Likewise in Thayumanavar's Hymns the word 'para parame' should not be translated....It is to be retained and chanted as such....Even if the chanter (be he a tamilian) does not understand a word of the verse ,he would derive the true benefit of chanting the word 'Arunachala' or 'Para parame' or 'Paripoorananandame',etc....These Mantric aspects have to be retained....this is the reason that these 'words' occur towards the end of the verses.
So,the Translation should put these 'key words' only towards the end of the verse and not paraphrase it as if it is some sort of a prose...The mantric element is readily perceivable to the chanter of the Hymns and has the power to awaken in him the true sense of the invocation.
3.The Translator has to recognize these 'key words' and leave it untouched....Just like the translation of the Gayatri mantra is of no use and cannot bestow the effect of chanting the mantra,the translation of these 'key words' do not carry the sense and power of the original.
Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5082 on: October 09, 2017, 11:05:56 AM »
Quote:
"The Translator has to recognize these 'key words' and leave it untouched....Just like the translation of the Gayatri mantra is of no use and cannot bestow the effect of chanting the mantra,the translation of these 'key words' do not carry the sense and power of the original."



Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, what you have said regarding translation of the Hymns of Great Ones, I feel, is cent percent true. It is almost impossible to recreate the rhythmic and mantric elements of the Hymns composed by Great Ones in a translation done by lesser mortals, as it were. Moreover, flavour of what you called intimacy (I would call 'endearing elements' of such compositions) that the original Hymns convey are elusive in the translation. This is why before coming to Sri Bhagwan, I never read a translated work. But now I have no option. However, I am fully convinced that His Grace ensures that I do not feel anything wanting in sadhana simply because He revealed the Truth and the Path in a language which is not accessible to me at present.

Dear Sri Ravi, I have also downloaded  Tirukural and Tirumanthiram from the same site Himalayan Academy and saved them in my computer. Thanks very much, bhai saheb.

Pranam,
 Anil 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 11:08:02 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5083 on: October 09, 2017, 12:16:48 PM »
Sri P.Brunton: What exactly is this Self of which you speak? If what you say is true there must be another self in man.

Sri Bhagwan: Can a man be possessed of two identities, two selves? To understand this matter it is first necessary for a man to analyse himself. Because it has long been his habit to think as others think, he has never faced his 'I' in the true manner. He has not a correct picture of himself; he has too long identified himself with the body and the brain. Therefore I tell you to pursue this enquiry, "Who am I?" You ask me to describe this true Self to you. What can be said? It is That out of which the sense of the personal 'I' arises and into which it will have to disappear.

Sri Brunton: Disappear? How can one lose the feeling of one's personality?

Sri Bhagwan: The first and foremost of all thoughts, the primeval thought in the mind of every man, is the thought 'I'. It is only after the birth of this thought that any other thoughts can arise at all. It is only after the first personal pronoun, 'I', has arisen in the mind that the second personal pronoun, 'you', can make its appearance. If you could mentally follow the 'I' thread until it led you back to its source you would discover that, just as it is the first thought to appear, so it is the last to disappear. This is a matter which can be experienced.
 
Sri Brunton: You mean that it is possible to conduct such a mental investigation into oneself?

Sri Bhagwan: Certainly. It is possible to go inwards until the last thought, 'I', gradually vanishes.

Sri Brunton: What is then left? Will a man then become quite unconscious or will he become an idiot?

Sri Bhagwan: No; on the contrary, he will attain that consciousness which is immortal and he will become truly wise when he has awakened to his true Self, which is the real nature of man.

Sri Brunton: But surely the sense of 'I' must also pertain to that?

Sri Bhagwan: The sense of 'I' pertains to the person, the body and brain. When a man knows his true Self for the first time something else arises from the depths of his being and takes possession of him. That something is behind the mind; it is infinite, divine, eternal. Some people call it the Kingdom of Heaven, others call it the soul and others again Nirvana, and Hindus call it Liberation; you may give it what name you wish. When this happens a man has not really lost himself; rather he has found himself. Unless and until a man embarks on this quest of the true Self, doubt and uncertainty will follow his footsteps through life. The greatest kings and statesmen try to rule others when in their heart of hearts they know that they cannot rule themselves. Yet the greatest power is at the command of the man who has penetrated to his inmost depth. . . . What is the use of knowing about everything else when you do not yet know who you are? Men avoid this enquiry into the true Self, but what else is there so worthy to be undertaken?





Dear Devotees,

That settles it. All this is a matter which can be experienced. It is not heresy. If one could diligently follow the 'I'-thought or the 'I'-thread until it led him back to its Source, one would discover that one was ever One with the deathless Self or the Spirit. One also discerns that just as the 'I'-thought is the first thought to appear, so it is the last thought to disappear. This discernment helps one to drive the final nail into the coffins of the non-entity called ego.

Dear devotees, when Sri Bhagwan teaches that as one goes inwards until the last thought, ?I?gradually vanishes, Sri Paul Brunton expressed apprehension as to whether a man would become unconscious or become an idiot upon the disappearance of the sense of 'I'. He does not seem to understand that what he calls as his self is a mere reflection of the real Self, and therefore, if he is awakened to his true Self he who talks of unconsciousness will truly attain the Consciousness which is immortal. Hence, if he realizes his true Self, he will truly become wise and not an idiot.

Dear devotees, one whose all interests are centred in, for and by the ego, has invariably dread of death which threatens the dissolution of the ego, whereas the fear of death vanishes for ever in the realization that 'I' was always One with the universal, deathless Spirit which is the Self of all.   


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 12:24:43 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5084 on: October 09, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »
If thou speakest not I will fill my heart with thy silence and endure it. I will keep still and wait like the night with starry vigil and its head bent low with patience.

The morning will surely come, the darkness will vanish, and thy voice pour down in golden streams breaking through the sky.

Then thy words will take wing in songs from every one of my birds' nests, and thy melodies will break forth in flowers in all my forest groves.


Gitanjali, Sri Rabindranath Tagore