Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758441 times)

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #495 on: February 03, 2011, 03:22:05 PM »
Dear Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said that when a devotee reaches this stage when he asks for only shanti  and grace from God, the Gracious Lord appears as a Guru in the human form to guide him either on the Path of Knowledge or devotion  depending on the predisposition of the devotee.

Dear sir, I also feel somewhat the same as the devotee in your post. Deep within my heart I also do not long and care much for Realization. I also long and seek  the Grace bestowing ‘Feet of my Guru’. But at the same time, I know that the best worship to one’s Guru is to tread the Path shown by the Him steadfastly.  Yes, I am aware that Sri Bhagwan has said, “ If longing is there , Realization will be forced on you even if you do not want it “.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #496 on: February 03, 2011, 04:17:56 PM »


Dear Anil,

During intense longing or devotion or in meditation, there will be
several experiences:

Q:  When I meditate I feel a certain bliss at all times.  On such
occasions, should I ask myself, 'Who is it that experiences this
bliss?'

Sri Bhagavan:  If it is the real bliss of the Self that is experienced,
that is, if the mind has really merged with the Self, such a doubt
will not arise at all.  The question itself shows that real bliss was
not yet reached.

Q:  Sometimes, I hear internal sounds.  What should I do when
such things happen?

Sri Bhagavan:  Whatever may happen, keep up the inquiry into the
self, asking, 'Who hears these sounds?' till the Reality is reached.

Q: Sometimes, while in meditation, I feel blissful and tears come
to my eyes.  At other times, I do not have them.  Why is that?

Sri Bhagavan:  Bliss is a thing that which is always there and is
not something which comes and goes.  That which comes and goes
is creation of the mind and you should not worry about it.

Q: When I reach the thoughtless stage in my sadhana I enjoy a
certain pleasure, but sometimes, I also experience a vague fear
which I cannot properly describe.

Sri Bhagavan:  You may experience anything, but you should never
rest content with that.  Whether you feel pleasure or fear, ask yourself who feels the pleasure or the fear and so carry on the
sadhana until pleasure and fear are both transcended, till all duality ceases and till the Reality alone remains.  There is nothing wrong in such things happening or being experienced, but you must never stop at that.  For instance, you must never rest content with the pleasure of laya - manolaya it is called - temporary abeyance of the mind experienced when thought is quelled, you must press on until all duality ceases.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #497 on: February 04, 2011, 07:07:08 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I do not feel it is appropriate and, therefore, I do not wish to say much about myself at this stage. However, your last post compels me to say a few words. I have had, sometime or the other, almost all the experiences that different devotees narrated to Sri Bhagwan as mentioned in your post. For instance, during initial years, fear gripped me during deep experiences on at least two or three occasions, and I became scared and wanted to even  usher in thoughts within my petty consciousness. From the time I came to Sri Bhagwan in 2005, Grace-filled Bliss always is, whatever my situation in the worldly life, whether it is agreeable or disagreeable  and I must confess that it has not been rosy at all by any standard. But I never had any doubt what it is. I knew instinctively that it is Sri Bhagwan, Sri Bhagwan , Sri Bhagwan………  . I must add that now that fear has gone away for ever. But emotion and tears would not go away particularly when  this thought that what merit I have to deserve such Grace  comes to me.

Dear sir, I am aware that sadhana must be carried on till all duality ceases, until all that is not-Self is transcended. I also cannot describe about the benefit that has accrued to me by interaction with you and other members on this Forum. It is indescribable. However I also must add that  Sri Bhagwan’s last statement, “ I AM HERE “ gives me an instant awareness of ‘Here and Now’. Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #498 on: February 04, 2011, 08:37:00 AM »



Dear Anil,

Such feelings are the experiences of many members here.  They
have expressed them in this Forum.  We have to only continue
our intense faith in Sri Bhagavan, to go past these.

Q:  How does one get rid of fear?

Sri Bhagavan:  What is fear?  It is only a thought.  If there is
anything besides the Self there is reason to fear.  Who sees things separate from the Self?  First the ego arises and sees objects as
external.  If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there
is nothing external.  For anything external to oneself implies the existence of the seer within.  Seeking it there will eliminate doubt and fear.  Not only fear, all other thoughts centered around the ego will disappear along with it.

Q:  How can the terrible fear of death be overcome?

Sri Bhagavan:  When does that fear seize you?  Does it come when
you do not see your body, say, in dreamless sleep?  It haunts you only when you are fully 'awake' and perceive the world, including your body.  If you do not see these and remain your pure Self, as
to dreamless sleep, no fear can touch you.



Arunachala Siva.   

amiatall

  • Guest
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #499 on: February 04, 2011, 12:33:57 PM »
Initially when people start looking inwards, after millions of years going outwards, it appears so that something terrifies them, and it is the expansion of their consciousness or expansiveness, for they always felt as a concrete crystalized tiny entity and now that entity starts to dissipate, the all "life" that they thought they are starts to disappear. When mind starts losing boundaries or does not have where to grab on, it seems that it is falling somewhere deep. A cosmic joke is that it seems so and it appears so. But it isn't so. That which always were, is and will be, only is aware and nothing more or less. That awareness we are.

Secondly, a habit of constant accumulation of knowledge may bring some uncomfortable feelings because here you lose all knowledge and dive into unknown, and this is what mind fears - unknown. But unknown is known too. This is a big joke.

Thirdly, just being aware that's all. Mind is perplexed because its nature - to grasp, but the mystery of the Spirit grasp he cannot.


It seems God likes to joke very much.  :)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #500 on: February 04, 2011, 01:13:07 PM »


Dear amiatall,

Yes. The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness.
When the ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning,
thinking or sensing faculty.  The cosmic mind being not limited by
ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware.
This is what the Bible means by "I AM THAT I AM".

The ego-ridden mind has its strength sapped and is too weak to resist torturing thoughts.  The ego-less mind is happy in deep,
dreamless sleep.  Clearly therefore Bliss and Misery are only modes
of the mind.  But the weak mode is not easily interchangeble
with the strong mode.  Activity is weakness and consequently miserable.  Passivity is strength and therefore blissful.  The dorman strength is not apparent and therefore not availed of.

The cosmic mind,  manifesting in some rare being, is able to effect the linkage in others of the individual [weak] mind with the universal mind [strong] mind of the inner recess.  Such a rare being is called the guru or God in manifestation.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #501 on: February 04, 2011, 01:24:48 PM »
Dear Sir,

Fear is now resolved. 'Fear Not', sang Sri Muruganar. Slowly but surely I discovered that fear, anger, emotion etc. are mere thoughts which pertain to the root I-thought. Whenever I am angry, or have thought of fear or undergoing any other emotion, the most appropriate thing to do is to ask, " To whom this thought of fear or anger or sorrow etc.? " ,"To me?", " Who am I? " The attention is at once shifted to the thinker . What is this 'I' who has these thoughts ? Is it known which thought is coming and when it is coming ? Is this false and conceptual ego  who has these thoughts is the master of the thoughts ? No. The one who is having these thoughts is a complete stranger. Then the same question arises, " Are there two I's, for one I to make the other I its object ? " And then the decisive plunge, " Who am I ? "  Only Silence.  Only Infinite, Unbroken, and Conscious Silence is the Supreme Reality.
Ji. Intense faith and longing is the key to divinity and we should always pray to Sri Bhagwan so that faith and longing continue to  deepen and  He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #502 on: February 04, 2011, 02:27:03 PM »
Dear Sri amiatall,

Your analysis regarding perplexity of the ego-mind resulting in fear etc. is rather apt. When the mind starts losing boundaries and does not have a new one to grab on, it seems that it is falling somewhere and is scared. Your observation that mind fears the unknown is also quite relevant to the fear a seekers encounters during the initial years.

But the cosmic joke that you memtioned in your post is not a joke but the Ultimate Truth. When the ego-mind is cornered, these appear as the tricks through which it tries to escape.

Thank you for a very,very nice post.
Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #503 on: February 04, 2011, 03:15:28 PM »


Dear Anil,

There are several questions, some serious, some humorous that were asked to Sri Bhagavan.  All were answered with great compassion by
Sri Bhagavan:

Q:  Several people say that they get peace by meditating in the Hall. I am  not blessed with such peace.  This itself has a depressing effect on me.

Sri Bhagavan:  This thought, 'I am not able to concentrate' or
'I am not getting peace' is itself an obstacle. Why should the thought arise. Find out to whom has this thought come?

Q:  Suppose there is some disturbance during meditation, such
as mosquito bites. Should one persist in meditation and try to bear the bites and ignore the interruption, or drive the mosquitoes
away and then continue the meditation?

Sri Bhagavan:  You must do as you find more convenient.  You will not attain mukti simply because you drive them away.  The thing is to attain one-pointedness and then to attain mano nasa [destruction of the mind].  Whether you do this by putting up with the mosquito bites or driving the mosquitoes away is left to you.  If you are completely absorbed in your meditation, you will not know that the mosquitoes are biting you.  Till you attain that stage, why should you not drive them away?

Q: People practicing meditation are said to get a new disease; at any rate,  I feel some pain in the back and front of the chest.  This is stated to be a test by God.  Will Bhagavan explain thnis and say if it is true?

Sri Bhagavan:  There is no Bhagavan outside you.  And no test is therefore instituted.  What you believe to be a test or a new disease resulting from spiritual practices is really the strain that is now brought to play upon your nerves and the five senses.  The mind which was hitherto operating through nadis [nerves] to sense external objects, maintaining a link between itself and the organs of perception, is now required to withdraw from the link and this action of withdrawal naturally causes a strain, a sprain or a snap attendant with pain.  Some people call this a disease and some call it a test of God.  All these pains will go if you continue your meditation, bestowing your thought solely on understanding your Self or on Self Realization.  There is no greater remedy than this continuous yoga or union with God or Atman.  Pain is inevitable as a result of discarding the vasanas [mental tendencies] which you have had for so long.



Arunachala Siva.           
 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #504 on: February 04, 2011, 05:08:51 PM »



Dear amiatall,

One Malayalee poet in his Sivanama Sangirthanam says:  God is
a very clever fellow.   He has kept all the senses outward looking
but He is staying cozily within.  This is perhaps is God's Joke or God's Sport.

Q:  Why cannot the mind be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts?

Sri Bhagavan:  It is done by practice and dispassion and it succeeds only gradually.  The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed
to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall.  However, much her keeper tempts her with luscious grass and fine fodder, she refuses the first time.  Then she takes a bit, but her innate tendency to stray away asserts itself and she slips away.  On being repeatedly tempted by the owner, she accustoms
herself to the stall finally, even if let loose, she does not stray away. Similarly, with the mind.  If once it finds its inner happiness, it will not wander outward.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #505 on: February 05, 2011, 08:45:26 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

In reply to a question (Your post, Re-433) regarding ‘new disease’ which a devotee practicing meditation is supposed to get, Sri Bhagwan replies, “ What you believe to be a test or a ‘new disease’ resulting from spiritual practices is really the strain that is brought to play upon your nerves and the senses ”.

Malayalee poet : “ God is a clever fellow. He has kept all the senses outward looking but He is staying cosily within. This is perhaps God’s Joke or God’s Sport. “
Very  nice. This is a beautiful  verse. Bhagwan’s reply regarding the ‘new disease’ and the Malayalee Poet’s exultation, in my view, imply the same as “ Oh Lord, All is your jugglery “.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan used the simile of the cow used to grazing stealthily on others’ estates to drive home and underline the important fact that Atma Vichara or the Self-enquiry is a gentle technique as opposed to violent method of breath control and other rigorous spiritual practices which are employed to rein in the mind. As the keeper of the cow tempts her with luscious grass and fine fodder, so is mind tempted with inner happiness that Atma Vichara or the Self-enquiry reveals. Once it gets the taste of the inner happiness , it will seek and partake more and more of the same and thus the mind and the senses will gradually cease to wander outward.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil     
 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #506 on: February 05, 2011, 10:16:17 AM »


Dear Anil,

There are some devotees, who expressed that they had felt a void or a vacuum while meditating.  Sri Bhagavan has elaborately discussed this void in one of His conversations.  It is in Day by Day entry dated 21st July 1946:

Q:  When I meditate I reach a stage where there is a vacuum or void. How should I proceed from there?

Sri Bhagavan: Never mind whether there are visions or sounds or anything else or whether there is a void.  Are you present during all this or are you not?  You must have been there even during void to be able to say that you experienced a void.  To be fixed in that 'you' is the quest for the "I" from start to finish.  In all books of Vedanta you will find this question of a void or of nothing [soonyam] being left behind raised by the disciple and answered by the guru.  It is the mind that sets objects and has experiences and that finds a void when it ceases to see and experience, but that it not 'you'.

You are the constant illumination that lights up both the experiences and the void.  It is like the theatre light that enables you to see the theatre, the actors and the play while the play is going on but also remains alight and enables you to say that there is no play on when it is all finished.  Or there is another illustration.  We see objects all around us, but in complete darkness we do not see them and we say, 'I see nothing'; even then
the eyes are there to say that they see nothing. In the same way, you are there even in the void you mention.

You are the witness of the three bodies, the gross, the subtle and the causal, and of the three states, waking, dream and deep sleep, and the three times, past, present and future, and also of the void.  In the story of the tenth man, when each of the ten counted and thought there were only nine, each one forgetting to count himself, there is a stage, when they think one is missing and don't know who he is.  And that corresponds to the void. We are so accustomed to the notion that all that we see around us is permanent and that we are this body that when all this ceases to exist, we imagine and fear that we have also ceased to exist.

Sri Bhagavan also quoted verses 212 and 213 from Vivekachoodamani, in which the disciple says: "After I eliminate the five sheaths as not-Self, I find that nothing at all remains."  And the Guru replied that the Self or That by which all modifications [including the ego and its creatures]  and their absence that is void, are perceived is always there.

Then, Sri Bhagavan continued speaking on the subject and said: "The nature of the Self or "I" must be illumination.  You perceive all modifications and their absence.  How?  To say that you get illumination from another, would raise the question how he got it and there would be no end to the chain of reasoning [reductio at infinitum].   

So you yourself are the illumination.  The usual illustration of this is the following:  You make all kinds of sweets of various ingredients and in various shapes and they all taste sweet because there is sugar in all of them and sweetness is the nature of sugar. And in the same way, all experiences or the absence of them contain illumination which is the nature of the Self.  Without the Self they cannot be experienced, just as without sugar not one of the articles yo make can taste sweet.

A little later, Sri Bhagavan said also said:  First one sees the Self as objects.  Then one sees the Self as void.  Then one sees the Self as Self, only in the last there is no seeing, because seeing is Being.



Arunachala Siva.             

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #507 on: February 05, 2011, 03:29:02 PM »
According to The Power of the Presence, before  Sri  Ganapati  Muni had met Sri Bhagwan, he had decided not to bend before any human being  because he considered himself an incarnation of Lord Ganapati. But Sri Bhagwan’s Grace was manifesting, for he says that he got an emotional feeling of devotion and he at once thought of the Sage of Arunachala in the Virupaksha Cave.

Sri Ganapati Muni explains to Sri Bhagwan now his famous problem thus:  “ I have read all the sastras, performed japa of the famous mantras, observed hundreds of penances and austerities. Yett I have had no realization. Is my tapas tainted ? I am said to be a learned man, yet I do not know. I take refuge in you. Help me! ”
Sri Bhagwan gazed at him in silence for some time and then replied, “ If one observes that that from which the “I-I” rises, the mind will subside there. That is tapas.”
According to the Power of the Presence, Sri Ganapati Muni immediately replied, “ Cannot the same result be obtained through mantra japa as well ? ”
Sri Bhagwan replied, “ If, while one is doing japa of a mantra, one observes where the sound of that mantra rises from, the mind will subside there . That is tapas. “

But according to this book, Sri N. R. Krishnamurti Aiyer, an old devotee of Sri Bhagwan, used to chant Rama mantra mentally. He says that the world around him disappeared and merged into his body and the body in turn would merge into the heart-centre and only the mantra vibration would be the sole experience until it also finally merged into the nescience of sleep.

The book says that Sri Aiyer was trying to follow the Famous Advice given to Sri Muni  that if one observes where from the sound of the mantra is emanating , the mind would subside there.
  It is noteworthy  that Sri Bhagwan advised Sri Muni thus only after he asked from Sri Bhagwan whether the same result cannot be obtained by watching where from the mantra sound is emanating. 
The power of the Presence observes that at this stage of his sadhana, Sri Aiyer’s efforts were culminating in sleep and for this technique to succeed, the sound would have to resolve itself into sleep-free consciousness.

Please note carefully,
“ The sound would have to resolve itself into sleep-free consciousness.” ( to continue )

Thank you,
   Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #508 on: February 05, 2011, 04:31:45 PM »



Dear Anil,

Yes. What you have posted is correct.  When Kavyakanta Ganapati
Muni went near Sri Bhagavan, he placed his right hand on His right
leg and his left hand on His left leg.  That is keeping the hands as
like X.  Later he said that if he had not prostrated to Sri Bhagavan,
in that manner, he would never had the upadesa from Him.  What
Sri Bhagavan told Kavyakanta is self inquiry.  What He told to His
Mother Azhagamma is self surrender.  He said: "Parameswara is
doing everything according to prarabdha.  Whatever has to happen, shall happen if one does not make effort.  Whatever has not to happen, shall never happen however much one makes effort.  In sum, it is better to be silent."

Nochur Venkataraman says that Ganapati Muni was also given a secret mantra as upadesa.  This is not known to many persons but only to a few.

There was one Sub Registrar Narayana Iyer.  He was so much impressed by ULLadu Narpadu, Tamizh that he was chanting that
throughout the day, whenever he was free.  That was his sadhana.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #509 on: February 06, 2011, 10:21:48 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a brilliant and illumining post (re-536).
During a certain stage of my sadhana why do I experience a void ? Because the seer of the empirical usage is absent. But still I am able to say that I experience a void, I slept happily etc. The True Seer is always there like the tenth man and the ever present illumination illumining the actors, stage, audience etc. both before and after the play. It is all indeed a divine play. Is it possible,otherwise, maya or no maya, that  I do not count myself and grieve for the tenth man ? When the mind of the subject-object has ceased and I do not see objects, the world and phenomena I say I see void. When I see void, my existence itself appears endangered forgetting that 'I am' is always there like the tenth man and even able to say that I see a void. Pity.  I do not see myself who  always is indicating as I, I, I, I...  and who in truth is the Seer of void as well as the emirical phenomena. Why I cannot indicate towards 'I' ? Can there ever be an experience without the truth of I-Consciousness ? Can sweets be sweet without sugar ? Can the inanimate be the animate without the Awareness ? So starkly obvious is the Existence. Yet we do not know It although that is ever known, ever realized.
(Posted by a mobile phone from a train)

Regards,
   Anil