Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758027 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4830 on: June 13, 2016, 07:40:26 PM »
Dear Devotees,

As I have gathered, questions regarding 'effort and destiny' and 'effort and Grace' were often raised even before Sri Bhagwan before His Mahasamadhi, as have often been raised in this forum by some members from time to time.

As regards the limited attaining the Unlimited, I wish to say that all seekers and devotees, irrespective of the sadhana they are following, should always remember that  the Realization is due to Master's Grace more than anything else. Grace is the primary and essential cause.

Yes, the limited by itself can never attain the Unlimited. For instance, jiva's limited effort by itself can never attain the Infinite Being, the Unlimited.  One may ask that if the Realization is dependent on Grace, what is the use of effort then?

Well, the sun is there and shines and one is surrounded by sunlight. Still, if one would know the sun one must turn one's gaze in its direction and look at it. Similarly, Sri Bhagwan has taught, GRACE  IS  ONLY  TO  BE  FOUND  BY  EFFORT,  ALTHOUGH  GRACE  IS  ALWAYS  THERE  ALL  ALONG,  HERE  AND  NOW.

Dear devotees, Grace is the primary and essential cause, and effort is imperative, for Grace is vouchsafed to those who are true devotees or yogins, who have striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom.

Therefore, it all finally comes to subsidence or merging of the mind into its Source, by whatever method. As I have understood and grasped Sri Bhagwan's Teaching, the moment it happens (subsidence or merging), the Grace rushes forth, spouting as from a spring within us.


Dear devotees, when our limited effort and Infinite Guru's Grace act and react upon each other, we realize our Swarupa as the Infinite Being!


Thanks very much,
Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 07:44:15 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4831 on: June 16, 2016, 08:24:43 AM »
Quote
how do the karmas in themselves carry the seeds of their own destruction?

Dear Sri Anil ji,

I present below some abstract expressions as it came forth!

Just as a cracker that is lit would get exploded,
just as life would end in death,
Just as a dream ends upon waking up,
just as with the sun rise darkness ceases,
with the dawn of knowledge karmas end!

All that has a beginning, carries its own end for sure, this is inevitable!

When True Jnana shines, that is when the Self chooses to come out of its cocoon of ignorance, karma ends then and there!

How long can we carry this body that is so burden-some? How long can one keep walking, running? Another name for Jiva is Karma!

How long can one bind himself in various karmas, good or bad!

Just as the Sun's light cannot be curtailed, darkness's destruction cannot be curtailed for long!

So long one wakes up from sleep, that long karmas have a rein!

So long the Self chooses, that long Karmas have a rein!

This very moment, it can end, if the Self chooses so!

yamevaiṣa vṛṇute, tena labhyas tasyaiṣa ātmā vivṛṇute tanῡṁ svām.
He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is gained. (Kathopanishad)

Self is free from Karma at all times, If the knowledge of Self is gained, there is no Karma for him! If there is no Kartrutva--Bhava, there is no Karma. If there is the Kartrutva-Bhava, there is Karma.

How long can one carry the burden of doership? Not long enough!

He who has known Self, is free from Karma!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4832 on: June 16, 2016, 08:45:30 AM »
Tamil poet Kannadasan sang,

"satti suttadhadaa kai vittadhadaa"

When the hands that carry the pots feels the heat of the pot, it drops it immediately!

the Pig relishes eating the filth,
without knowing about the filth,
the moment it knows,
it will cease from eating it!



In a way, we are all running like this, but actually going no where!

The moment, Vichara steps in, the running slow down, slows down and eventually stops altogether when it is known that we are going nowhere!

Dear Sri Anil Ji, I have seen people becoming senile after retirement, since they are so used to working, engaging in activities, there are unable to remain quiet! How long the body can cater to the needs of the mind? The mind is restless! They end up becoming slaves of Karmas, some engage in good activities, yet remain restless!

Therefore, one should retire before one's reirement, die before the body's death! Send our near and dear ones to heavens before Lord of Death takes them all by surprise and leave us in lurch!

Death is one topic, evenpeople immersed in Spirituality do not bother looking it deeply enough! Spirituality seem to give us some temporary anesthesia from the death, that we are the Self it is deathless. But when real Death strikes, man is shaken and no spirituality or immortality helps!

One has to contemplate deeply about Death and it results in "Mritunjayam"

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4833 on: June 17, 2016, 07:05:20 PM »
Dear Devotees,

We shall not hear any more from the great devotee that Sri Graham is. When I learnt that he has attained the Feet of his Guru, I experienced a deep, heart-felt loss.
Expressing my condolence to the bereaved family members, I wish to say that I shall not write and post anything for a few days as a mark of love for and respect to the great devotee. However, I wish to say also that death has caused only dissolution of his mortal coil, for his attainment would continue to inspire and guide us as before.

Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 07:10:37 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4834 on: June 20, 2016, 03:23:39 PM »
Sri Graham Boyd learnt a few lessons during his now famous image restoration works , which, I also feel,  sooner or later must be learnt by all earnest sadhaks. Sri Graham, in his article titled 'Image Restoration and Sadhana',  has narrated them in his own words beautifully which are as under:




People have commented that "Bhagwan's Grace must be with you" as if such an idea is out of the ordinary but the truth of the matter is that Bhagwan?s Grace is always with me and with everyone else and when I am with His Grace the work goes well but when I think that I have some part to play in it then all I can add is interference and error. This is the first lesson of service.

The second is patience--unlimited patience. When the work started I was already noted for the patience I displayed with most things, yet within I would often seethe with impatience and become angry, but suppress it; this habit would create some rather destructive time--bombs, and poor quality workmanship. Bhagwan always stressed "Endurance and yet more endurance" and through the repeated work I am learning the real meaning of patience--endurance without anticipation is real patience and everything prior to this was a fake.

The third lesson is dispassion. Dispassion in the specific work followed by passion in the remaining time of each day is passion in everything. Dispassion means not seeking reward for the work itself, nor for the service nor expecting worldly betterment through it. It means always standing at the back of the queue and never seeking to reach the front. The work must therefore be done because it is there to do and not for any overt or covert motive, not even the idea of serviced to the Guru, for this also entails ego.

The final lesson is surrender. Surrender is either total or not at all and this is the hardest of all lessons to put in to practice. Surrender means accepting everything with equanimity  and relinquishing even the idea of decision-making; but this is not always possible in everyday worldly life; so for the sake of practicality surrender has to be restricted to that which is dedicated to Bhagwan.

I pray that through the Grace of Bhagwan I might one day learn and be capable of perfectly executing all of the above qualities necessary for genuine sadhana.

Source: Centenary Souvenir


Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 03:29:51 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4835 on: June 20, 2016, 03:32:25 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj Ji:
"Death is one topic, evenpeople immersed in Spirituality do not bother looking it deeply enough! Spirituality seem to give us some temporary anesthesia from the death, that we are the Self it is deathless. But when real Death strikes, man is shaken and no spirituality or immortality helps!
One has to contemplate deeply about Death and it results in "Mritunjayam""



Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

In response to the above quote, I would like to quote a "passages of Grace" from 'Day by Day With Bhagwan', as under:

Sri Bhagwan: "The dead are fortunate. It is only those who are left behind who feel miserable. It is our constant concern to bear the burden of this body and look after its needs. Day in, day out, this is our occupation--bathing, eating, massaging our legs and so on--no end to it. When we die it takes four persons to carry  this body and yet we carry it about constantly without even stopping to think that we are doing so. We can easily lift a heavy stone under water, but as soon as we take it out we find how heavy it is, and in the same way we don't feel the weight of the body as long as the Chaitanya or life force permeates it."




Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, and what is death but giving up the body? Our real nature is to be without the body, and therefore, indeed, deathlessness alone is our real nature. However, since we identify the Self with the body, we falsely ascribe the sense of immortality that we all nurture innately deep within to this insentient block of a body, imagining that this log of a body  will live for ever and thus we lose sight of  what is really immortal (the Self)!


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 03:35:52 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4836 on: June 20, 2016, 03:38:29 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj Ji:
"Self is free from Karma at all times, If the knowledge of Self is gained, there is no Karma for him! If there is no Kartrutva--Bhava, there is no Karma. If there is the Kartrutva-Bhava, there is Karma."



Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Yes,   Sri Bhagwan has taught on numerous occasions that this is the way to destroy the karmas for once and all, that is, 'finding the root of karmas' and cutting it off. Rectifying karmas  is not the procedure, for if one rectifies one karma, the whole sanchita remains which can cause innumerable births. The more one prunes a plant, the more vigorously it grows. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the more one rectifies one's karma, the more it accumulates.

There must be kartritva (doership) and karta (doer) of karma, and hence, karma can last only so long as the dehtma-budhi (I am the body' idea) lasts. Obviously, there cannot be karma in the absence of the ideas of doership and doer. Sri Bhagwan has taught that karmas (actions) get embedded as samskaras in the individuality. This is possible only when the mind is fertile, that is, impure and changing, as in one who has not realized the Self. In a barren or pure mind, that is, in a mind free from vasanas, as in a Realized One, karmas cannot get embedded as sanskaras and bear fruits.

It follows that karmas get embedded as samskaras or predispositions in an individual whose mind is ever changing and is fertile. Karma is said to contain in themselves the seeds of their own destruction in that they have to depend on false and phantom-like individuality for their fruition, i.e., they rest on weak and imaginary foundation, which when attacked, disappears, and with it disappear the karmas. 

This is why Sri Bhagwan taught, "See whose karma it is. You will find you are not the doer. Then you will be free."

So, yes, there is no individual, there is no karma--no prarabdha karma nor  agami karma nor snachita. If the husband of three wives dies, all three are widows at once!

Sri Bhagwan: "The direct method of attack is not to depend on invisible hypotheses but to ask: 'Whose karma is it? Or whose body?'"


Thanks very much, dear friend, for a beautiful and quite apt response to my question.
Pranam,
  Anil             
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 03:46:20 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4837 on: June 20, 2016, 07:37:35 PM »
Dear devotees, I think that many of you might have known Sri William Wordsworth's 'Lucy Poems'. Well, what follows is one called 'A  Slumber Did My Spirit Seal':


A  SLUMBER  DID  MY  SPIRIT  SEAL

A slumber did my spirit seal-
I had no human fears.
She seemed a thing that could not feel
The touch of earthy years.
 

No motion has she now, no force--
She neither hears nor sees,
Rolled round in earth's diurnal course
With rocks and stones and trees.

Sri William Wordsworth





Dear devotees, this poem is about the death of a loved one of the poet named Lucy . How does the poet feels when he thinks about her death? How does he imagine her to be, after death?
The second stanza maintains the quiet, even tone of the first, but serves to undermine the former's sense of the eternal by revealing that Lucy has, by the time of composition, died. The poet's response to her death lacks bitterness or emptiness; and instead takes consolation from the fact that she is now beyond life's trials.


Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 08:23:36 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4838 on: June 21, 2016, 09:38:06 AM »
Quote
what is death but giving up the body? Our real nature is to be without the body, and therefore, indeed, deathlessness alone is our real nature. However, since we identify the Self with the body, we falsely ascribe the sense of immortality that we all nurture innately deep within to this insentient block of a body, imagining that this log of a body  will live for ever and thus we lose sight of  what is really immortal (the Self)!

Dear Sri Anil ji,

in Dakshinamurti Stotram,

बीजस्याऽन्तरिवाङ्कुरो जगदिदं प्राङ्गनिर्विकल्पं पुनः
मायाकल्पितदेशकालकलना वैचित्र्यचित्रीकृतम् ।
मायावीव विजृम्भयत्यपि महायोगीव यः स्वेच्छया
तस्मै श्रीगुरुमूर्तये नम इदं श्रीदक्षिणामूर्तये ॥२॥

This world (that appears now) no doubt was present undifferentiated before just like a sapling as present within a seed.
With the power or apparatus of Maya, by giving rise to time and space concepts, it has projected this universe of various aspects (as though a paint with many colours)
As though a Mayavi - a magician, [Who] (projects these illusions like magic) or like a Maha Yogi, [He] out of स्वेच्छया Self Desire  - ones own wish and desire or just out of his own whim, (projects this manifestations)!
To him - He who has known this [secret] - (knowledge) (is) Sri Guru Murti (He who knows this secret is himself the Guru - Bhagavan says - Self is Guru - N) That Gurumurti is Dakshinamurti. (He knows this is That - N)

Shankara says, By giving rise to the concepts of Time and Space with the power or apparatus of Maya this world appears with varied forms, colours and aspects was before just like the sapling found in the seed! Just like a Magician brings out various illusions, a great Yogi thate He is, out of his own desire, will, whim, has given rise to these - (time space, world universe or varied aspects)
He who has known this is the Sri Guru Murti, is this Dakshinamurti

Therefore, Dear Sri Anil Ji, this body that we see has appeared like this, it is in its original form Unmanifest - within the Para-Brahman like a sapling within a seed or jewelry within gold, or pot within mud. Out of its own fancy or Self-Will it has come to manifest as this universe, as this body and so on! But how? With its power of Maya-Shakti, it gave rise to the concepts of Time and Space and so on, to enable the manifestation of this Universe this body and so on!

Therefore that which is manifest now, we should not see it in exclusion, but we should know the original form of this Manifestation (say this body, world etc) like a big Ashwatta tree was once just present within a small seed as a potential form!

We were like this before our birth within the Brahman as the Jewelry in Gold, as Tree within Sapling and so on. That which has come to manifest is subject to the rules of the Apparatus of Maya of time space and so on! Being subject to Maya (out of स्वेच्छया), it is bound by the conditions of Time space out of स्वेच्छया , the manifestation culminates into pralaya  going back to its original form of Seed or Para-Brahman, that is why Shankara has used the word  पुनः in the first line of this great Upanishad Shloka! This continues again and again... the Self seems to do this out of स्वेच्छया Self Desire only and repeatedly!

This secret if one has come to know, then one will know the unmanifest state of the manifest as well. With the Maya Shakti, Creation Sustainance and Destructions occurs, what we call death in relative sense! But we now know it goes back to the source - the unmanifest state ! Where does the dream world go upon waking up?

Shankara gives another example elsewhere, Bhagavan too has quoted this too - Just as a spider emits the thread of a web from within itself and withdraws it again into itself, in the same way the mind projects the world from within itself and later reabsorbs it into itself. When the mind emanates from the Self, the world appears. Consequently, when the world appears, the Self is not seen, and when the Self appears or shines, the world will not appear.

Another great reflection is this Dear Sri Anil ji, that for the Great Huge Ashwatta Tree to appear from the seed, the seed has to go! When the Sapling comes the seed goes, and again for the Seed to appear the tree has to go! For the Jewelry to appear the Gold goes and when Gold has to appear the Jewelry goes! :-) hope you get what i am saying ! This is so wonderful!

Like the world and characters of a dream appears from no other substance as ones own self, this world appears as is with no different substance as ones own self as from the Seed Tree comes! This Manifestation of world is the Self only !

Seed alone has become the Tree, The Tree goes back to the Seed on pralaya into its original seed!

When we see and interact now with the world we will now be aware of this Maya of Unmanifest - Manifest and its seeming extinction to be the same!

Shankara says He who knows this is Guru Murti, 'Guru' is destruction of Darkness, that is Dakshinamurti!

The fear of Death is alleviated with this Knowledge.

Again, I have not gone through to edit what i have written, please excuse my lack of clarity of language!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4839 on: June 21, 2016, 06:55:24 PM »
I provide a more clear translation below:

बीजस्याऽन्तरिवाङ्कुरो जगदिदं प्राङ्गनिर्विकल्पं पुनः
मायाकल्पितदेशकालकलना वैचित्र्यचित्रीकृतम् ।
मायावीव विजृम्भयत्यपि महायोगीव यः स्वेच्छया
तस्मै श्रीगुरुमूर्तये नम इदं श्रीदक्षिणामूर्तये ॥२॥


The one who is a magician or a great yogi,
creates this universe just out of his own free-will ?
the universe, which before creation remained unmanifest
like the tree in a seed, and has later
projected himself out to be the universe of
diversities, due to the play of time and space, the
products of mAyA, to Him, the divine teacher, SrI
dakshiNAmUrti, this salutations.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4840 on: June 21, 2016, 07:02:02 PM »
Quote:
"Therefore, Dear Sri Anil Ji, this body that we see has appeared like this, it is in its original form Unmanifest - within the Para-Brahman like a sapling within a seed or jewelry within gold, or pot within mud. Out of its own fancy or Self-Will it has come to manifest as this universe, as this body and so on! But how? With its power of Maya-Shakti, it gave rise to the concepts of Time and Space and so on, to enable the manifestation of this Universe this body and so on."


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Yes, my understanding is almost exactly the same. I understand that the world, the individual as well as God are the manifestation of the one Self, or the Self alone is the world, the 'I' and God.  Yes, one can say that the world, the individual and God are present, in the seed form, in unmanifest Brahman in the same way as earthen pots are said to be  within the earth or jewellery is said to be within Gold, or a dog is said to be inherent in the wood.


Quote:
"Like the world and characters of a dream appears from no other substance as ones own self, this world appears as is with no different substance as ones own self as from the Seed Tree comes! This Manifestation of world is the Self only!"


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, my understanding  though is in perfect accord with the gist of what you have written in your beautiful post, I wish to say that as far  as Adi Shankara's theory of Maya is concerned, I feel that Sri Bhagwan's explanation of the same is a revelation  in itself!

Sri Bhagwan has explained that Sri Shankara made three statements:
That Brahman is real
That the unverse is unreal
And that the Brahman is the universe.

Sri Bhagwan has explained that Sri Shankara didn't stop with the second statement only, for, the third statement He made explains the first two.
Sri Bhagwan has taught that the third statement signifies that when the universe is perceived apart from Brahman, that perception is false and illusory.  WHAT  IT  AMOUNTS  TO  IS  THAT  PHENOMENA  ARE  REAL  WHEN  EXPERIENCED  AS  THE  SELF  AND  ILLUSORY  WHEN  SEEN  APART  FROM  THE  SELF. 

Dear friend, Sri Nagaraj Ji, I cannot explain what this great Teaching has done to me. Brahman or the Self alone exists and is real; and the world, the individual and God are, like the illusory appearance of silver in the mother-of-pearl, imaginary creations in the Self. Moreover, Sri Bhagwan has taught unequivocally that the world, the individual and God appear and disappear simultaneously.  YES,  ALL  THAT  EXISTS  IS  ONLY  A  MANIFESTATION  OF  THE  SUPREME  ONLY.


Thanks very much, dear friend, for a very beautiful post.
Pranam,
  Anil       
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 07:07:41 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4841 on: June 22, 2016, 06:34:48 AM »
Quote
I cannot explain what this great Teaching has done to me. Brahman or the Self alone exists and is real; and the world, the individual and God are, like the illusory appearance of silver in the mother-of-pearl, imaginary creations in the Self. Moreover, Sri Bhagwan has taught unequivocally that the world, the individual and God appear and disappear simultaneously.  YES,  ALL  THAT  EXISTS  IS  ONLY  A  MANIFESTATION  OF  THE  SUPREME  ONLY.

Absolutely! Dear friend, no words!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4842 on: June 23, 2016, 07:21:45 AM »
D.:  From where did ignorance come?

M.:  There  is  no  such  thing  as  ignorance.  It  never  arises.  Everyone is  Knowledge  itself.  Only  Knowledge  does  not  shine  easily.  The dispelling  of  ignorance  is  Wisdom  which  always  exists  -  e.g.,  the necklace  remaining  round  the  neck  though  supposed  to  have  been lost;  or  each  of  the  ten  fools  failing  to  count  himself  and  counting only the others.  To whom is knowledge or ignorance?

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4843 on: June 24, 2016, 07:24:58 PM »
Sri Bhagwan:"if the enquiry is made whether mind exists, it will be found that mind does not exist. THAT  IS  CONTROL  OF  MIND.  Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just like a thief turning out to be a policeman to catch the thief, i.e., himself. Mind persists in that way alone, but eludes itself."

Sri Bhagwan: "By steady and continuous investigation into the nature of mind, the mind is transformed into That to which 'I' refers; and that is in fact the Self." 






Dear devotees, I have not seen anywhere in any teaching whatsoever such great and wonderful teaching on mind-control. If you have, kindly enlighten.

However, I quoted from Sri Bhagwan's Teaching, as above, only to ask you to share your understanding, feeling and experience in respect of the above Teaching. How do the above two Passages of Grace on the mind-control stand reconciled for those whose minds are in-turned? 

Pranam,
  Anil           
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 07:28:13 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4844 on: September 02, 2016, 06:01:00 PM »
Dear Anilji,

Why such long Silence?


With best regards,
Amarendra