Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756192 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4800 on: June 05, 2016, 08:47:47 AM »
          THY  WILL  BE  DONE



Even when our God seems to be unwilling,
His will is still my affirmative will!
The duty of man is just be still,
Instead of letting monkey mind go killing
Realisation of the Self, and then filling
Soul with idle chatter that works for ill;
It makes one's worldly dream a bitter pill
To swallow and send the senses reeling.
Keeping quiet is a much wiser feeling,
And will lead to real freedom if maintained,
So peace and bliss are in the Heart retained,
And man lives in happiness and endless joy,
A state of Being which can never cloy.
Existence-Awareness-Love, is that state of Being.

Sri Alan Jacobs

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4801 on: June 05, 2016, 03:51:36 PM »
A man of deep Faith (Sradha) obtains this divine knowledge, being full of zeal and devotion for it and endowed with mastery of the senses. Having obtained that knowledge, he is established in supreme peace very soon.
V. 4-39, Srimad Bhagavad Gita


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

In Ch. 17 of the Gita, Lord Sri Krishna though speaks of Faith (Sradha) as rooted in the Gunas and goes on to describe Faith as Satvic, Rajasic, and Tamasic, and says that man is verily constituted of his faith, and he is what his Faith is, I am not concerned anymore with this differentiation regarding Faith or Sradha.

What I am concerned right now is with the Sradha or Faith which, as per my understanding and intuition, is the inner intuition and natural receptivity and inclination of the mind to ideals, which ultimately goes on to settle man's preference for the Jnanam and Bhakti and for the Divine to worldly things and object.
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, I have understood that any spiritual practice or any of the four Yogas cannot have the spiritual efficacy if they are practiced without Sradha or Faith. No spiritual practice, even if it is Enquiry, can have any spiritual efficacy if it is not supported by Faith.

Sradha or Faith with capital G is certainly much more than mere belief. I have read somewhere that even Lord Budha deprecated belief, and yet insisted strongly on the need for Sradha or Faith. As Lord Budha never taught to have belief in a God who grants wishes and answers prayers, I wondered what Faith or Sradha He enjoined and in whom. Here too, Sri Bhagwan came to my rescue and I ultimately understood:

Sri Bhagwan has taught that everyone of us has not only a feeling of individual existence but also an intuition of pure being. Have we not? Therefore, from the Jnana's outlook or perspective, Faith is nothing but DEEP TRUST  in this pure being. In my view, it is immaterial whether one considers this feeling of pure being as other than himself or the very essence of himself, during sadhana, provided one trusts and surrenders to it. As sadhana progresses one's Faith deepens and one abnegates the ego and surrenders in deep trust (Faith)the individual self on the altar of this Pure Being, or to the Cause of one's being or to That which alone Is, that is, the Self.

In my view, in Bhakti also, Faith only means complete subordination of the individual self to That to which it prays. It is possible only when one accepts the unreality of the individual who prays and its complete subordination to God, obliterating for once and all one's 'I', 'my' and 'mine'. 

Whether this individual self is surrendered to the Pure Being or to God, it results certainly in free flow of the Grace and Harmony because of removal of the obstruction in the form of individual self or the ego. If such attitude develops in a sadhak, answering of even unasked wishes and prayers happens, unasked because asking in an intrusion of false self-will obstructing the free flow of Grace.

This is why Sri Bhagwan has taught that if one is firm in the belief that a Higher Power guides us, there need not be any concern about what happens. Then all doubts are cleared, and the devotee will remain perfectly happy in his Faith in the Omnipotent and Divinity. Such is that Faith!

Moreover, all doubts are cleared when one dwells and contemplates Sri Bhagwan's Teaching that Self is God, God is Grace, and Self, God, Grace and Sradha are all synonyms. It follows that Self is Sradha as well. As it has been understood that Self reveals Itself due to Guru's Grace, in the same way it should be, in my view, understood that Self is not manifest due to ignorance, with Sradha for one's Guru  and and His Teaching It will become manifest. With Faith in the Omnipotent or God, He will reveal Himself. This is, in my view, akin to saying 'water pouring over water', as you so beautifully said in your post.


Thanks very much, dear friend, Sri Nagaraj Ji.
Pranam,
  Anil           
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 04:01:19 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4802 on: June 05, 2016, 05:03:57 PM »
Can there be a feeling (awareness) of existence without something that really exists? Can there be a true awareness (Reality) other than 'That Which Is'? Since 'That which exists' dwells bereft of thoughts in the Heart--Itself called the Heart--who is there who cam meditate on 'That which Is' and how to meditate? Know that to mediate on 'It', is to be as 'That'-to remain in the Heart without thoughts.
Invocation, Reality In Forty Verses





Dear Devotees,

A snake appears due to presence of a rope. Can the snake appear without the basic reality of the rope? This basic reality of the rope is what is called 'adhisthana' or the substratum, and since the snake is a mere appearance, imagined and projected on the substratum of the rope, it is called 'aropitam' or superimposition. Likewise, Self or Brahman--that is--That which Is--is the Substratum. And Sri Bhjagwan has taught that the individual, God and the world are mere imagined superimpositions on It.
Besides, as the appearance of the imagined rope obscures the rope and the rope shines as rope only when the imagined snake ceases to appear, so also the superimposed individuals, God and world prevents the truth of 'adhisthana' or the Self or Brahman from shining in its purity. Therefore, it also follows from this that it is the nature of any superimposition to effectively conceal the truth of the substratum. Is it not?
I wroite as above to discuss that in the question 'Who am I?' we presume that there is an 'I' and go on to ask who or what it is, but truth is the questioner himself is the superimposition and does not really exist. It can then be indeed said that there just IS, that is, there is just being; and we divide the 'Is' into 'I', 'he', 'you', 'this' and 'that',etc. But the 'Isness' or pure being is really indivisible. What happens is, in my view, as under:

First, I feel being only, but thought emerges and I use the word 'I' to refer to the same. There is no problem with the use of 'I' for the being, if only we could leave it at that, for Sri Bhagwan has Himself taught that 'I Am' is the Reality. But with it rises, so long as ignorance persists, the idea of separateness and the imagined superimposition of 'so and so' attaches itself and is superimposed on the basic Reality of the 'adhisthana', i.e., 'I Am' the imagined and projected 'I am so and so', and that is the beginning of all sorts of trouble for the jivas. Since everyone of us has the same feeling and intuition of the existence or being, everyone of us uses the word 'I' for it only. 


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 05:19:57 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4803 on: June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji and Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan is the Self. Sri Arunachala is the Self. This is settled here at least in this forum. Isn't it? However, we all are aware of the 'Manifestation of Deep Sradha', in Her absolute Purity, that Sri Bhagwan obviously had for Sri Arunachala while embodied.  Well, my next question is: What exactly is this Sradha that a Great Jnani appears to possess, and which manifests naturally and spontaneously in Him, as In Sri Bhagwan? What is the nature of this Sradha? Can anyone here in this forum share their understanding of and insight into a Jnani's Sradha for either His Guru or the Omnipresent Divinity? I shall be very happy if you respond to this question, which, in my view, is of paramount importance for all seekers and sadhakas, irrespective of spiritual practices they are following.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil           
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 06:05:09 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4804 on: June 06, 2016, 08:12:27 PM »
I vex my heart with fancies dim:
He still outstript me in the race;
It was but unity of place
That made me dream I rank'd with him.
And so may Place retain us still,
And he the much-beloved again,
A lord of large experience, train
To riper growth the mind and will:
And what delights can equal those`
That stir the spirit's inner deeps,
When one that loves but knows not, reaps
A truth from one that loves and knows?
Lord Tennyson




Sri G.V.S. said, "It is said that by repeating his own name a number of times Tennyson used to get into a state in which the world  completely disappeared and he realised that it was all illusion."


From the footnote to the English translation of Upadesa Saram:
Lord Tennyson: ....................a kind of waking trance I have frequently had, quite up from boyhood, when I have been all alone. This has generally come me through repeating my own name two or three times to myself, silently, till all at once, as I were out of the intensity of consciousness of individuality, the individuality itself seemed to dissolve and fade away into boundless being: and this not a confused state but the clearest of the clearest, the surest of the surest, the weirdest of the weirdest, utterly beyond words, where death was an almost laughable impossibility, the loss of personality seeming no extinction but the only true life.? 


Sri Bhagwan: "That state (referring to above -anil) is called abidance in the Self. It is described in a number of songs."



Dear devotees, how otherwise can anyone sing ecstatically
         
"And what delights can equal those`
That stir the spirit?s inner deeps,"



but for coming out of the state of Exalted Abidance (Samadhi), and from the vague remembrance!!

Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 08:15:21 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Beloved Abstract

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4805 on: June 07, 2016, 01:38:03 AM »
 Well, my next question is: What exactly is this Sradha that a Great Jnani appears to possess, and which manifests naturally and spontaneously in Him, as In Sri Bhagwan?
What is the nature of this Sradha?

it is the truth of who they and you really are ... awareness itself . it is not possessed , it is what witnesses all possessions.
it has no nature. it is what witnesses all nature
it is the same awareness that is focused through all bodies. it is only the mind that keeps you from realizing that you are already ... awareness itself.
the invitation is to let the mind stop and see for yourself .... to be awareness , aware of itself.
the silence of Ramana
be still and know that i am god
 :)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 01:40:36 AM by Beloved Abstract »
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4806 on: June 07, 2016, 07:27:07 AM »
Quote

Sri Bhagwan is the Self. Sri Arunachala is the Self. This is settled here at least in this forum. Isn't it? However, we all are aware of the 'Manifestation of Deep Sradha', in Her absolute Purity, that Sri Bhagwan obviously had for Sri Arunachala while embodied.  Well, my next question is: What exactly is this Sradha that a Great Jnani appears to possess, and which manifests naturally and spontaneously in Him, as In Sri Bhagwan? What is the nature of this Sradha? Can anyone here in this forum share their understanding of and insight into a Jnani's Sradha for either His Guru or the Omnipresent Divinity? I shall be very happy if you respond to this question, which, in my view, is of paramount importance for all seekers and sadhakas, irrespective of spiritual practices they are following.

Dear Sri Anil ji,

I felt the usage of the word manifest may not be the right usage. Even previously you had mentioned as follows:

Quote
"Self is not manifest due to ignorance, with Sradha for one's Guru  and and His Teaching It will become manifest."

For we know that the Self is ever manifest, there is not a time when the Self is not manifest. There is no reason why the self is not known to any body (meaning, the Self if ever revealed). If you may allow me to express rather freely - what is called as ignorance or avidya is just a willful forgetfulness of the Self (but can we really call it forgetfulness)! There is no reason why this neiscience manifests. Ignorance, Avidya manifest but Self shines ever endlessly! Manifest is more appropriate to use here in this context. Or can we say - Self willfully manifests as Ignorance or Avidya!

yamevaiṣa vṛṇute, tena labhyas tasyaiṣa ātmā vivṛṇute tanῡṁ svām.
He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is gained. (Kathopanishad)


What reason can be attributed to this nature of the Self? The same is wonderfully expressed in Tiruvachakam by Manickavachakar. He says:

avan arulAlE avan thAL vaNangi
By his grace is his feet worshiped


Coming back to Sraddha. What is this Sraddha that a Jnani possesses, that we all do not posses? (reminds Bhagavan's "give up the possessor too) Do such great souls have some wonderful gift that we do not possess which we need to acquire anew? Have they cultivated it over a period of lifetime(s) (through past lives)? Or due to some stroke of luck have they attained some 'supernatural state' what is celebrated as 'Self Realised' and so on... ?

Moreover, In Kathopanishad, Yama says to Nachiketa as follows just before the above quoted line (Kathopanishad):

nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā, na bahunā śrutena
This Atman cannot be attained by study of the Vedas, nor by intelligence, nor by much hearing.


So by what possible way is it gained (to ponder - can it be gained)? Again this question is by itself endless. It is clear, that it is not possible to be gained, cultivated or developed by practice. In this context, what is this Sraddha that we are contemplating about - this is something to ponder about!

What is it by which Self is known? What reason can we attribute for this knowing, that is knowing the already known? Is it possible to attribute a reason for this? It is Ahetuka (अहेतुक) Reasonless! By no special reason this miraculous 'phenomenon' occurs!

What is Sraddha? Who knows? We can only speculate! Does Sraddha mean sincere sadhana? We can say so, yes, Sraddha is the sincere accomplishment of some sankalpa (desired end). Be it Wordly or Spiritual activity! In worldly sense, it is sincere effort made towards attaining a particular end. In Spiritual sense also we can say, it is out of love some sadhana is performed for the attainment of the desired grace of Lord. Verily, it is a prayer, an appeal, meaning in a general sense that O Lord, I am doing all these very sincerely, please do the needful for me (what is best for me)! We may now call such Sraddha as the Parisramam 'effort' made in order to attain one's welfare!

The more such prayer is made, be it worldly or spiritually, respective results result! In the case of Spiritual Parisramam 'effort' - the more such Parisramam 'efforts' are made it results in Chitta Shuddhi - Purity, what is called as Naishkarmya! Here our Parisramam 'effort' becomes (अहेतुक) Reasonless as well. This is called Para Bhakti. When Ones own Self is pleased, [if we may say so only poetically as it is ((अहेतुक) Reasonless)], then "He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is gained"

Such Parisramam 'effort' is what meant as Sraddha:

श्रद्धावां लभते ज्ञानं तत्परः संयतेन्द्रियः ।
ज्ञानं लब्ध्वा परां शान्तिमचिरेणाधिगच्छति ॥

śraddhāvāṃ labhate j?ānaṃ tatparaḥ saṃyatendriyaḥ,
j?ānaṃ labdhvā parāṃ śāntimacireṇādhigacchati.

(Such - N) a man of faith obtains the Jnanam (Self knowledge - N) who has Harmonised the senses towards the Supreme Tat (Truth), and having obtained Jnanam (Self knowledge - N), they obtain Supreme Peace.

(own translation - N, you may want to cross-refer)

We always like to believe that Jnanis have some thing special in them that we do not have and we try to fill this incompleteness by various efforts. This is an error but it is necessary for chitta shuddhi! The Jnani says through the eternal language of Mauna - Silence that there is no difference between Him and Us. Below is the dictum of Bhagavan:

You and I are the same.
What I have done is surely possible for all.
You are the Self
now and can never be anything else.
Throw your worries to the wind,
turn within and find Peace.


With these, i conclude my ramblings. Below, i present a couple of quotes of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:

My world is just like yours. I see, I hear, I feel, I think, I speak and act in a world I perceive, just like you. But with you it is all, with me it is nothing. Knowing the world to be a part of myself, I pay it no more attention than you pay to the food you have eaten. While being prepared and eaten, the food is separate from you and your mind is on it; once swallowed, you become totally unconscious of it. I have eaten up the world and I need not think of it any more.

Of course we live in one world. Only I see it as it is, while you don't. You see yourself in the world, while I see the world in myself. To you, you get born and die, while to me, the world appears and disappears. Our world is real, but your view of it is not. There is no wall between us, except the one built by you. There is nothing wrong with the senses, it is your imagination that misleads you. It covers up the world as it is, with what you imagine it to be -- something existing independently of you and yet closely following your inherited, or acquired patterns. There is a deep contradiction in your attitude, which you do not see and which is the cause of sorrow.

I see what you too could see, here and now, but for the wrong focus of your attention. You give no attention to your self. Your mind is all with things, people and ideas, never with your self. Bring your self into focus, become aware of your own existence.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4807 on: June 07, 2016, 08:20:12 AM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

With the context of usage of the word 'manifest', i am sure that you have as well wished to convey the same as i have expresssed and the eternal nature of the Self is ever manifest. Just i have expressed in a manner that has helped me to convey what i have wished to express on the above topic in discussion.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4808 on: June 07, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »
Quote:
it is the truth of who they and you really are ... awareness itself . it is not possessed , it is what witnesses all possessions.
it has no nature. it is what witnesses all nature
it is the same awareness that is focused through all bodies. it is only the mind that keeps you from realizing that you are already ... awareness itself.
the invitation is to let the mind stop and see for yourself .... to be awareness , aware of itself.
the silence of Ramana
be still and know that i am god



Dear Sri Beloved Abstract,


Yes. Thanks very much for your beautiful response. But kindly do not take mistakenly my use of the word possession'' in my post. I used the word in the same sense as a Jnani appears to onlookers to possess a body, a Jnani appears to be working, and so on. So, I have said that a Jnani appears to possess deep Sradha for the Omnipotent.  But from the Jnanis perspective or outlook or the stand-point, He does not possess a body, He does not work, and He does not possess anything either. He is the Self.
Yes, what I really meant, and what you have insightfully said, Gist or the Essence is the same. A Jnani, you, I, He, she, et al, are That through which all seeing is happening. We all are Awareness'' Itself, and therefore, there is nothing apart from It to be aware about.

However, having said as above, I wish to say that what prompted me to ask question on Sradha is my understanding that Jnanis Sradha is same as His Pure Mind (verily Barhman or the Self), Sradha is same as Grace which is verily the NATURE of God or the Self. To me, a Janai is therefore embodiment of Love, Grace and Sradha!!!

However, I wish to say a few words more on Sradha sometime later.


Pranam,
  Anil       
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 02:22:55 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4809 on: June 07, 2016, 02:41:59 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,



Quote:
"i am sure that you have as well wished to convey the same as i have expressed and the eternal nature of the Self is ever manifest. Just i have expressed in a manner that has helped me to convey what i have wished to express on the above topic in discussion."



Yes, I do not differ from what you have said. Only thing, in my view, your response has taken slightly a different direction from the response  which I wished sincerely to elicit from you. However, I wish to convey that as far as my use of the word 'manifestation' is concerned, they were quoted according to Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. I do not remember the Talk from where I quoted the same. Sri Bhagwan has Himself taught that the Self is not manifest due to ignorance, it will become manifest with Sradha, yes, His Teaching that ignorance or avidya is that which really does not exist notwithstanding. However, yes, there is no doubt that the the Self is ever manifest, ever revealed, and ever realized, but alas! we bemoan that 'we' do not know the Self, ever being That only notwithstanding.   

However, I shall come to our discussion on Sradha later, only to say that indeed Sradha is our real nature.

Thanks very, dear friend, for your beautiful response and discussion on Sradha.

Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 02:49:55 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4810 on: June 07, 2016, 06:18:57 PM »
The Engineer asked how Grace has to be got?
Sri Bhagwan: Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing. With sraddha, it will become manifest.
Sraddha, Grace, Light, Spirit are all synonymous with the Self.

Talk--381     


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

How do you view the above Words of Grace?

Dear friend, Sri Nagaraj Ji, when I came to Sri Bahgwan, thoughI knew intuitively that I have arrived, many terms, even in Sri Bahgwan's Teaching, I didn't understand intially. Slowly but surely, with constant practice and sravana by way of reading His and His devotees works and compositions again and again, and constantly contemplating on them, and last but not the least due to His Grace, it didn't take really long when I became not only fully acquainted with His Teaching, but intuitive affirmation of the same left me in doubt whatsoever as to where all this is leading me. Teaching such as one quoted above, helped me  a great deal in inferring intuitively the import of such words as Grace, Light, Sraddha, etc.

Dear friend, I feel that what you have written can be conveyed to one who follows Sri Bhagwan's Vichara comprehensively and adequately in the way as under:

Yes, "Sarvam khalvidam Brahma", that is, All is Brahman or the Self. Sri Bahgwan has taught that the Self is ever manifest, ever revealed and ever realized, never non-realized. Well, but one, due to ignorance prevailing, says that he has not realized the Self. The question of paramount importance is: Who says that he is not realized, who says that Self is not manifest? Self does not say so, and the one who says does not exist. Hence the urgent necessity to ask, 'Who am I?' and realize the Swarupa, free of the 'I'-thought, which rises, usurps and covers the Atma-swarupa or the Self.

However, I wish to say a few words more on Sraddha which will follow.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 06:23:38 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4811 on: June 07, 2016, 07:28:14 PM »
Q: How to get rid of credulousness?  The visitor's problem was that he starts with some ideal recommended to him, but when others come and recommend other ideals, he feels inclined to believe them and give up his old ideals.

Sri Bhagwan: Yes, yes. Our whole trouble is that we are credulous. We believe in everything except the reality. We must give up all our false beliefs, and that is the only thing we have to do. Then the reality will shine by itself.




Dear devotees, I asked, "How Sraddha or Faith is not belief?"  Beliefs are myriad, legion. Are they not? Belief is to be deprecated, but importance  of Sraddha or Faith in spiritual life cannot be overstated.  Therefore, this post forms the part of my response on Sraddha vis-a vis beliefs.
Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 07:33:13 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4812 on: June 08, 2016, 07:25:27 AM »
Quote
The Engineer asked how Grace has to be got?
Sri Bhagwan: Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing. With sraddha, it will become manifest.
Sraddha, Grace, Light, Spirit are all synonymous with the Self.

Dear Sri Anil ji, Grace is everything! Without it, nothing is possible! It is akin to saying, without the Self, nothing is possible! You have so beautifully conveyed - Sraddha, Grace, Light, Spirit are all synonymous with the Self! If you look at my post, though it might seem slightly diverging from the response you have sought for, yet i have not deviated from the very line of teachings of Bhagawan and have conveyed the very response in a rather different manner. These are just ways of conveying the essence finally. What is of prime importance is the 'essence' ultimately!

We can say it this way as well - that the Self remains unmanifest due to ignorance, avidya or maya! It becomes manifest or revealed by the touch of grace of the Guru. The same essence is conveyed either way! We may say, the Self remains ever manifest and like Krishna bestowed upon Arjuna Divya Chakshus to be able to see the divine form of the Lord. Till then it remained unmanifest in the eyes or Arjuna!

Quote
I feel that what you have written can be conveyed to one who follows Sri Bhagwan's Vichara comprehensively and adequately in the way as under:

Dear Friend, I am caught up with some work, i am unable to spend enough time to compile/edit my response, i am just spontaneously responding. But just one thought is coming out at the moment that Bhagavan left or expressed no precondition at all in any manner that everybody is Self! Everybody is the Self in the eyes of the Jnani - Bhagavan has said so. Our own Self realisation is the greatest help we can render to the world. Therefore it goes to show that one is the Pristine Self and it is not just limited to one who follows Bhagavan's Atma Vichara comprehensively. whether or not one follows, one is the Self!

When the Guru says so, why are we not able to trust him? He never at a moment allowed or accepted that one is the Non Self at any moment. If any body felt so, he asked them to look carefully, i.e. enquire and see who is it? - this you have beautifully conveyed. The Self is ever revealed, and is not so somethin to be attained in the future, it is ever attained! This feeling of I am yet to realise my Self is an error! We may say as it is a willful error by one Self! There can possibly be no Avidya, Igorance. It is impossible! If one feels so then Bhagavan said No, it is not so, see, look carefully, enquire who feels thus! Therfore, If one truly has such hunger, this error will end this very moment. But how?

Quote
Yes, "Sarvam khalvidam Brahma", that is, All is Brahman or the Self. Sri Bahgwan has taught that the Self is ever manifest, ever revealed and ever realized, never non-realized. Well, but one, due to ignorance prevailing, says that he has not realized the Self. The question of paramount importance is: Who says that he is not realized, who says that Self is not manifest? Self does not say so, and the one who says does not exist. Hence the urgent necessity to ask, 'Who am I?' and realize the Swarupa, free of the 'I'-thought, which rises, usurps and covers the Atma-swarupa or the Self.

Dear Friend, our Guru Bhagavan leaves no gap at all! As you have beautifully expressed in the paragraph above. The very question that burns in the hearts of such a Mumukshu, is itself Sraddha. He enquires as per the in instructions of the Guru and the if the urge of the aspirant reaches the Self, it is revealed to him then and there in that very moment!

The matter of importance is that our call or our urge or our enquiry has to reach the ears of the Self. This directly depends on the burning urge of the aspirant. Even if a baby is hungry, it needs to cry audible enough for the mother to hear and then she comes and feeds the baby.

But if the urge is casual one, not a burning one, the voice may not reach the Self for the Self to reaveled itself! There has to be such a hunger for it! As we have seen how Ramakrishna immerses Vivekananda's head within water and when he grasped for breath he was pulled out and Ramakrishna said if he has such an urge to see God as he wanted to breathe when he rasped for breath, he could see God!

A person having one leg in the quest of Self and another in the worldly matters, cannot be said to be having the qualities of a Mumukshu, such a person is just a visitor, he is curious, has faith, but his hunger is not deep enough as illustrated the incident of Vivekananda. This does not mean one has leave everything worldly but just that one has to have realised about the urgent need to realise oneself! you have also used the word URGENT NEED. It shows the intensity! Though at times he may feel the importance to realise his Self, his call or appeal or voice remains unheard by the Self! There is no real hunger to realise. "He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is gained." If the Self has to choose oneself, then such hunger should be there, this hunger can also be understood as real Sraddha. If such hunger is there, like a Gun powder catches fire, just one moment of Self enquiry will be enough! Else repeated practices are required like charcoal, that may burn eternally but one has to have that Hunger to end this error-'error'!

Sraddha is this urgent want to realise the Self beyond anything else! This want is something like one's life depended on it! This is what I would like to add to your observation "I feel that what you have written can be conveyed to one who follows Sri Bhagwan's Vichara comprehensively and adequately in the way as under"

How does Sraddha result?

Having known the nature of this world even partly who wouldn't show Urgency? Scriptures say, a seeker of Truth seeks his Self just as a person who has his head on fire would seek water. This sense of urgency to redeem ourselves is also Sraddha!

Sraddha, then it varies from person to person depending on their hunger! We have people who say, let me wait for my retirement then i will spend time on spirituality! On the other hand we do have young people who have recognised the urgent need to realise the Self! We have some who are stuck with various karmas but in midst of all these their hunger for Self is as good as their heads on fire and they search for water with such intensity! Some are least bothered! Some are so near yet so far, being lost in the whole glamour of spiritial environment around a Guru. all these are types of Sraddha. They all eventually reach the ocean slowly and slowly. The only way is forward!

We have all kinds of people! We have the famous verse in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says 4 kind of people worship me:

चतुर्विधा भजन्ते मां जनाः सुकृतिनोऽर्जुन ।
आर्तो जिज्ञासुरर्थार्थी ज्ञानी च भरतर्षभ ॥

the suffering distressed, the seeker for material gain, the seeker for knowledge inquisitive ones, and Jnanis who adore Me with knowledge!

Hence Sraddha varies from person to person. Some may just have academic desire, some may just want to know so that they cant talk and enjoy being a guru. only rarely one may want to genuinely want to end this samsara taapa. only such Sraddha will result in the complete annihilation of the error-error. only such person's call reaches the ears of the Self! Him the Self Chooses. Him whom the Self chooses alone has complete Sraddha! None else! Other have to taste the illusive world for some more time, until they realise there is no essence in the world!

More later, my friend, Bhagawan willing, we will look further. Thank for for this wonderful opportunity to contemplate on Sraddha.

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« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 07:43:46 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4813 on: June 08, 2016, 08:33:21 AM »
Dear friend,

Having said as above about the qualities of Sraddha. I am urged to take back my words for expressing some prerequisite for Self Realisation!

As i have expressed in my previous post, yesterday, the Self Realisation is Ahetuka (अहेतुक) Reasonless! When we see Bhagavan's story, he never aspired for Self Realisation, he knew nothing about Self Realisation. What reason is it that Self became revealed to him? No reason - Ahetuka (अहेतुक) Reasonless!!

Again my friend, I repeat my post here as it is!

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg84626#msg84626

Ignorance is never admitted! There is no Ignorance! There is no point in conveying something needs to be done in order to overcome this ignorace! This is maya!

Beyond a point it cannot be rationalized!

There is no attainment, in real sense. There is no annihilation of anything in real sense. This paradoxical phenomenon can at the closest be compared to waking from sleep-dream, but even this is imperfect as the Self never sleeps!

There is no Ignorance. There is no ignorance! There is no Self Realisation as Verb!

Self is Sraddha. There is no practicing Sraddha, cultivating Sraddha. We are the Self! period.

There is no greater mystery than this, that we keep
seeking reality though in fact we are reality.   We
think that there is something hiding reality and that
this must be destroyed before reality is gained.
How ridiculous!   A day will dawn when you will laugh
at all your past efforts.  That which will be the day
you laugh is also here and now.
Bhagavan

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4814 on: June 08, 2016, 01:14:59 PM »
Quote:
"Sraddha is this urgent want to realise the Self beyond anything else! This want is something like one's life depended on it! This is what I would like to add to your observation "I feel that what you have written can be conveyed to one who follows Sri Bhagwan's Vichara comprehensively and adequately in the way as under"

How does Sraddha result?

Having known the nature of this world even partly who wouldn't show Urgency? Scriptures say, a seeker of Truth seeks his Self just as a person who has his head on fire would seek water. This sense of urgency to redeem ourselves is also Sraddha!

Sraddha, then it varies from person to person depending on their hunger! We have people who say, let me wait for my retirement then i will spend time on spirituality! On the other hand we do have young people who have recognised the urgent need to realise the Self! We have some who are stuck with various karmas but in midst of all these their hunger for Self is as good as their heads on fire and they search for water with such intensity! Some are least bothered! Some are so near yet so far, being lost in the whole glamour of spiritial environment around a Guru. all these are types of Sraddha. They all eventually reach the ocean slowly and slowly. The only way is forward!"






Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Wonderful!!!

Thanks very much, dear friend, for a very beautiful, and indeed a wonderful post. Though I understand it, your post has added to my own sense of urgency, and is, in my view, potent enough to do same to many seekers.

Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 01:17:26 PM by eranilkumarsinha »