Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755725 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4680 on: March 25, 2016, 12:06:00 PM »
Sri Bhagwan: Do you become aware of yourself and then of the world? Or do you become aware of the world and then of yourself? Or do you become aware of both simultaneously?
D: I must say simultaneously.
Sri Bhagwan: Were you or were you not, before becoming aware of yourself? Do you admit your continued existence before and when you become aware of the world?
D: Yes.
Sri Bhagwan: If always existing yourself, why are you not aware of the world in sleep if it exists apart from the Self?
D: I become aware of myself and of the world also.
Sri Bhagwan: So you become aware of yourself. Who becomes aware of whom? Are there two selves?
D: No.

Talk--453





Dear Devotees,


Thus, Sri Bhagwan has taught unequivocally that it is wrong to suppose that Awareness has passing phases. Self alone is always aware, never non-aware. Only thing, when the Self or the Swarupa identifies Itself as the seer, it sees objects in the waking state. There is no such identification in sleep and we do not see objects, and for that matter, anything else whatsoever.   If we cease to identify the Swarupa as the seer or the individual , we the Self or the Swarupa is Pure Awareness.  Therefore, there is continuity of Being in all the three states, but it is our experience that there is no continuity of the seer or the individual and objects or thoughts that arise, hover for a while and fleet away , as in sleep. So, obviously we see that there is continuity in all the three states, we never cease to exist. That continuity is only the state of Pure Being, and that is Existence which is Consciousness, and therefore, it is known as Existence-Consciousness or Being-Consciousness.
So, We, the timeless and spaceless We, the Self or the Swarupa, is Pure Consciousness in sleep. We, the Swarupa, evolve as aham ('I') without the idam ('this') in the transition stage (between sleep and waking), and We, the Self manifest  as 'aham' ('I') and idam ('this') in the waking state. All these arise from the Self-Consciousness and have their appearances  only while they last, but have no being whatever. But remember, the Self or the Swarupa only remains aware.  Sri Bhagwan has taught that this emergence of aham  'I' along with idam or 'this' is synonymous with illusion or ignorance. But We are the Clear-Space of the Existence-Consciousness and all these aham, and its idam are the appearing and disappearing thoughts  (phenomena) in the clear sky of the Swarupa. All else comes and goes which are mere appearances, but our Pure Being is Pure Continuity underlying the alternating phenomena called states of waking, dream and sleep. 

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil         
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 12:13:32 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4681 on: March 26, 2016, 08:12:38 PM »

Dear Anil ji,

Your dilemma appears to have arisen due to your perception of duality, i.e., violence & non violence, good and evil, etc. and your starting to  choose any  one option as if you were the doer.  So far as one remains  non-enlightened one and does anything with a doer feeling, whether good or evil, he is bound to taste the resulting consequences, i.e., happiness or sorrow and,  therefore, he is suggested to do or sow  good deeds if he wants  to reap the harvest of happiness as it is the better choice for him.

However, in case of enlightened ones as Lord Krishna, Muhammad Saheb, Jesus Christ, Sai Baba   or Bhagwan Shri Ramana, the duality ceases to exist, for them past, present and future merges in one, they know that birth and death are illusory and in reality nothing can be either created or destroyed, as they  see the complete picture from the beginning to the end simultaneously,  their behavior most of the times baffles us as the same person who is teaching peace and non-violence at one place  advocates and justifies violence and killing at another place.
           The  trouble is that although their teachings are not contradictory in itself, it appears to us so because of our intellect/mind which can appreciate only fragments at a time, like in the six  blind men and the elephant story, as it is not possible for us to see both head and tail of a coin simultaneously.  Thus, in the light of Krishna's persuading Arjuna to partake in the war actively when his peace efforts went in vain, Muhammad's  spending almost whole the later life remaining engaged in battles despite his preaching of Islam (peace),  Christ - the messenger of  God's love and teaching to turn up another cheek to someone slapping one's  one cheek instead of retaliating -  himself  becomes angry and whips away the shopkeepers from the Temple in Jerushalem,  Baba testing the devotion of  his orthodox vaishnav Hindu Bhaktas by instructing them to kill goat or purchase meat on Ekadashi (however, subsequently, withdrawing his such orders), it is hardly surprising that   Bhagwan Shri Ramana might have  ordered for killing the cockroaches in one instance  and saving the squirrel  in another.   Besides, we can not judge their actions as we are not aware of the complicated mystery of the cause and effects of one's actions which is apparent  to them.   For instance,  our Puranas are replete with stories when incarnations of Bhagwan kill the demons with a view to liberating them and not for some ulterior motive as in our cases.  Further, as even the enlightened persons are aware of the inevitability of the  effects of  one's actions, sometimes out of compassion they take upon themselves  the bad effects of their Bhakta's evil deeds to provide them  relief and succor. In the instant case, in my opinion, in order to save the squirrel from  the clutches of death in the form of cat which was going to be the result of some past actions,  Bhagwan took upon himself  the bad results in the form of the fracture of bone of his shoulder and saved the squirrel by changing the  course of  her destiny. Similar conjecture may be made in regard to the cockroaches. Remember, how Ganga had to kill her all the offsprings except Bhishma in Mahabharat, just for their deliverance from the curse.

 However, it must be kept in mind  that these are just  guesses of an un-enlightened person, i.e., me who is completely incapable of fathoming the  mysteries of the leelas of  these great beings.  I sincerely pray that my audacity to venture to open my mouth, on such subjects  which I am completely ignorant of, may please be excused and ignored by them.   

Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4682 on: March 26, 2016, 09:13:57 PM »
I am extremely sorry that I failed to mention in the post that the reply pertained to your post no. 209 dated 03.12.2010 and I could not stop myself from commenting abruptly, without ever wondering whether my raising the issue after so many years would be appropriate. Hope, you will not mind and take it otherwise.

 With love,

Amarendra.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4683 on: March 27, 2016, 09:13:20 AM »
Quote from Sri Amrendra:
"Your dilemma appears to have arisen due to your perception of duality, i.e., violence & non violence, good and evil, etc. and your starting to choose any one option as if you were the doer. So far as one remains non-enlightened one and does anything with a doer feeling, whether good or evil, he is bound to taste the resulting consequences, i.e., happiness or sorrow and, therefore, he is suggested to do or sow good deeds if he wants to reap the harvest of happiness as it is the better choice for him."



Dear Amrendra Bhai,

Welcome to this Forum, my dear Arendra bhai, and thank you so much for starting with such a wonderful post. I am indeed so very happy that you got registered to this Forum, dedicated to Bhagwan Sri Ramana and His Teaching. As there was a great, great significance, for me, of your act of giving me the booklet 'Who Am I?' way back in 1992, I am certain that it is not for nothing that we are sharing again our understanding after many, many years. I feel that it was not sheer coincidence that Bambhola gave me your phone no. recently, which helped me establish contact with you after more than 20 years or so. I feel that divinity has brought us, the old pals, together again, and therefore, I attach deep significance to this meeting of hearts. Thank you so much.

Dear Amrendra bhai, from our college days, there has hardly been any point of disagreement between two of us in any spiritual or philosophical discussion.  And as always, I completely agree with what you have stated in your post regarding perception of duality. Yes, one sees violence, sorrow, good, evil, etc., in the world, so long as one still retains perception of duality and idea of doership. However, questions such as these do not trouble me anymore.

Pranam,
  Anil



Dear devotees, Sri Niluamrendra is none other than my dear friend Amrendra bhai, about whom I mentioned on several occasions under this topic. We have wished to visit Sri Ramanasramam together some time in future, and I am sure that His Grace would take us to Him. Being a senior S.B.I. official, posted in Mumbai, I hope he would spare his time from his busy schedule, and share his understanding and experience with us in this Forum.
Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 10:02:26 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4684 on: March 27, 2016, 09:57:27 AM »
Sri A. R. Natarajan has written thus:

The unparalleled Guruhood  of Bhagwan Ramana while in body, remaining at a single place for fifty four years after His enlightenment, is itself the irrefutable proof of the power of Arunachala which draws all earnest seekers of Truth in order to ripen their mind and merge in the vast space of the Spiritual Heart. One might refer to Bhagwan Ramana as the human embodiment of Agni, Fire, Arunachala, and the same Mahodevah of Rigveda.
When one is doing Giripradakshina , Arunachala's Guruhood is felt through the growing silence of the mind and heart filled with bliss. Teaching through 'Potent Silence' has always been Shiva's way. This is symbolized in His role as Adi Guru Dakshinamurthi. However, as Adi Sankara, He has to don a different role, to intellectually convince mind based schools of thought that Self is the source of all power. In Bhagwan Sri Ramana we find the amalgamation of Dakshinamurthi and Adi Sankara.
As one's faith in Ramana Bhagwan grows, due to the recognition that He is the best shield against fate's blows, one turns to Him as Sadguru. Prayers and yearning for Self-knowledge deepens. This highest boon is readily granted by Arunachala-Ramana.





Dear devotees, in the book 'Worshipping the Divine Oneness of Arunachala-Ramana', published by Ashram, it has been stated by the author that Sri Bhagwan's Silence, like the Hill's own Silence, is more powerful than the poetic and spiritually uplifting language of preachers.  Yes, as Sri Arunachala's Silence conveys His Transcendental State, so also Sri Bhagwan's Silence is eloquent, unceasingly indicating His Real State , and silencing the minds of His devotees who turn to Him. Sri Bhagwan's Silnce is verily's Sri Arunachala's Silence, SILENCE  IS  THE  SAMPRADAYA  (CREED)  HERE !
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 10:01:52 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4685 on: March 27, 2016, 08:44:28 PM »
Thanks Anil ji for your kind words of encouragement.

I am really glad to hear  that  "questions such as these do not trouble you anymore."

Pray God, who is supposed to reside within us as well as surround us from the outside and nothing is said to exist except Himself, to dispel all  our  illusions and doubts, which appear nothing but play of mind and his leela.

With love and due regards to all the devotees and seekers,

Amarendra

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4686 on: March 28, 2016, 10:51:04 AM »
Many visitors came on one occasion and they all saluted Sri Bhagwan with the single prayer, "Make me bhakta. Give me moksha." After they left Sri Bhagwan said, thinking aloud: All of them want bhakti and moksha . If I say to them, "Give yourself to me" they will not. How can they get what they want.
Talk--543


Dear Sri Amarendra Bhai,

When you narrated about Sri U.G. Krisnanmurti's visit to Sri Ramanasramam, and gave an account of his meeting with Bhagwan Sri Ramana, I was reminded of the occasion when Sri Bhagwan responded to some visitors as above  (quote).

Dear Amarendra bhai, yes, we are not ready, yet. A French officer came to Bhagwan Sri Ramana, with a list of questions, concluding with statement that he wanted no intellectual explanation but experience. Sri Bhagwan is said to have turned His Glance upon the officer. In a second the officer burst out, "No, no, not now, not now..........I will come later."

Sri Bhagwan has taught that we are the Self or God or Brahman, here and now. And this is why He taught, "Your duty is to be, not to be this or that." Being requires no effort, but one cannot remain for long in the simple state of  being, which is our Natural State, on account of predispositions or vasanas, accumulated in numerous births. Therefore, all efforts are only to disrealize the unreality and the Reality shines forth of its own accord, that is, It always Is as It Is, as you said yesterday. Hence, it follows that real effort lies in the cessation of effort, and remaining as the Self that we ever are.

Thanks very much, Amarendra bhai.
Pranam,
  Anil



Dear devotees, can any member or visitor to this site give me an account of Sri U.G. Krishnamurti's visit to Sri  Ramanasramam and his meeting with Sri Bhagwan? If it is available in any book, kindly point out the same. Thanks. Anil
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 10:56:48 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Sadhak

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4687 on: March 28, 2016, 03:35:08 PM »
"Dear devotees, can any member or visitor to this site give me an account of Sri U.G. Krishnamurti's visit to Sri  Ramanasramam and his meeting with Sri Bhagwan? If it is available in any book, kindly point out the same."

It is not to be found in any Ashram publication as far as I know. But UG Krishnamurti apparently mentions his visit in one of his books as told to me by people who have read it. To paraphrase, he supposedly visited the Ashram and asked Bhagawan ' Can you give me Self realization?". To which Bhagawan replied, 'I can give it to you, but you cannot receive it".  A few decades later, he visited J.Krishnamurti and asked him almost the same question. He received an almost identical reply.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4688 on: March 28, 2016, 06:03:41 PM »
Quote:
"It is not to be found in any Ashram publication as far as I know. But UG Krishnamurti apparently mentions his visit in one of his books as told to me by people who have read it. To paraphrase, he supposedly visited the Ashram and asked Bhagawan ' Can you give me Self realization?". To which Bhagawan replied, 'I can give it to you, but you cannot receive it". A few decades later, he visited J.Krishnamurti and asked him almost the same question. He received an almost identical reply."




Dear Sri Sadhak,

This is exactly what my friend, Sri Amarendra said to me yesterday regarding Sri U.G. Krisnamurti's meeting  with Sri Bhagwan.  It just occurred to me that I should get a detailed account of his visit to Sri Ramanasramam and his meeting with Sri Bhagwan.  I have not read so far any book on Sri U. G. Krisnamurti, but Amarendra bhai  has forcefully recommended  his books and observed that I should at least go through some of them, if not all. Since it was he through whom Bhagwan Sri Ramana entered my life, I shall certainly read some of Sri Krishnamurti's works if my Guru wills so, for I always felt that I read what was only essential to progress in my chosen sadhana.   

Thank you so much, dear Sri Sadhak, for your response and giving me information I sought.

Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 06:05:30 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Sadhak

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4689 on: March 28, 2016, 08:24:48 PM »
" It just occurred to me that I should get a detailed account of his visit to Sri Ramanasramam and his meeting with Sri Bhagwan."

And how do we know his account is accurate without any corroboration? From what I have heard over many decades from those who have met him or read his books, he does take liberties with truth. Take it for what it is worth.


Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4690 on: March 29, 2016, 12:08:52 AM »
Although it would have been better for me to keep my mouth shut in order  to avoid offending anybody's feelings or hurt their egos,  the amusing discussion has compelled me to wonder a lot and shall be glad  if Anil Bhai and  Shri Sadhak excuse  me for my impertinence.

At the very outset, I could not understand why Anil Bhai was interested in seeking information from Ashram's sources regarding U G when most of the information is readily available on  the internet,Google, Wikipedia etc. As regards UG's visit to Bhagwan Shri Ramana, UG had made   passing references  in his  interviews which were later on published,  but I fail to understand the need of any corroboration or authentication of his assertion as it hardly serves any purpose at all. In all probability, UG was not that famous or important at the time  when he might have called on Bhagwan Shri Ramana that he  might have deserved any mention of his visit in the Ashram's records. Actually I am not sure whether even the Ashram had been established at that time or not. Any way, whether he visited  or not or whether any records existed vouchsafing his statement - is immaterial as, in my opinion, all that matters is what UG wants to convey by his statement.

Secondly, I am amazed to perceive the latent fear in the statements of Anil Bhai  and Shri Sadhak as if  reading UG might shatter their faith in    Bhagwan Shri Ramana. As Shri Sadhak has himself accepted that he has only heard from others about UG and not had a first hand acquaintance with him or his views, how can  Shri Sadhak  say that UG  "does take liberties with truth"? I donot know whether Shri Saadhak  has realized the Truth and is in a position to recognize whether  somebody was  taking liberties with truth or not  and proclaim with certainty in this regard. As I am still a seeker, I am not capable to comment much in this regard except enjoining upon all seekers to be free of biases and prejudices so that the reality might be explored and  visualised with clear eyes. 

Thirdly,  so far as I understand, if one's socalled faith is shattered by reading anybody else's views or opinion, that socalled faith was no faith at all of any value but a means to perpetuate one's false ego. However, I may be completely wrong and, if you feel so, my inane rumblings may kindly be  ignored.

Again beseeching pardon and with love and due regards to all,


Amarendra.
 

Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4691 on: March 29, 2016, 01:02:15 AM »

Dear Shri Sadhak,

  I am really very pleased with the  rare childlike innocence mingled with genuine doubt of your statement  "And how do we know his account is accurate without any corroboration? From what I have heard over many decades from those who have met him or read his books, he does take liberties with truth. Take it for what it is worth."


Very true! Really very true!!

But extending the same logic, a true seeker must ask before starting his search as to how he will recognize GOD in case he ever happened to meet Him as he has not seen HIM so far and has only formed an opinion regarding God on the basis of  what other  "enlightened persons"  have described. Here also different persons have presented completely different pictures - some worship HIM as Ram, some as Krishna, some as Shiva, some as Kali, some as Nirguna and Nirakaar, some as their Guru, some inside heart, some in the seventh heaven in the sky, etc and no one description matches with another - honestly speaking, each contradicts the other in so many respects that it is quite natural their blind followers wage war against each other claiming  only their  version to be True.

If you ponder over this dilemma in depth and free your mind  from all the outside influences and concepts, you may be able "to know" yourself  the True Reality and, once this light shines and vision is clear, there will no more  be any need to ask any other blind man the correct path as to "How?' May I request you not to believe in hearsay but better to have a direct first hand experience, if possible.

Hope, you will excuse me if anything in my post appears offensive despite my best intentions and in that case simply ignore it considering my apparent ignorance. 

With love and best regards,


Amarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4692 on: March 29, 2016, 08:06:43 AM »
See what happens when you read too many religious books! ;D

I used the word truth as a layman to mean simple facts. And somebody replies with a sermon! :)  Thinking that truth was used to mean absolute Truth!




Niluamarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4693 on: March 29, 2016, 08:52:36 AM »

Dear Shri Sadhak,


Thank you Sir for your kind response unburdening my mind a lot.

Incidentally, I never considered you  a " lay man" but have really high opinion and respect  for you as well as all the boarders on this blog. That's why I took your comments seriously and ventured to respond.

I accept my fault as I am well aware of my various shortcomings including submitting to  temptation to snatch any opportunity to 'sermonize' to inflate my ego by a gross display of false 'panditya" hiding my own ignorance.  Thanking you once again for pointing out my  this weakness so clearly. 

With love and all due regards,

Amarendra

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4694 on: March 29, 2016, 09:00:01 AM »
"I accept my fault as I am well aware of my various shortcomings including submitting to  temptation to snatch any opportunity to 'sermonize' to inflate my ego by a gross display of false 'panditya" hiding my own ignorance."

You certainly fit very well with the rest of us here who do the same mostly without realizing it. ;D


 "Thanking you once again for pointing out my  this weakness so clearly."

You must only thank yourself for your expose that led to my reply. :P