Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758665 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4590 on: February 09, 2016, 10:46:08 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Effortless and Choiceless Awareness is our real nature. When question regarding choiceless awareness as distinct from deliberate meditation was raised, Sri Bhagwan replied thus:
Sri Bhagwan: If one can attain it or be in that state, it is alright. But one cannot reach it without effort, without effort of DELIBERATE  MEDITATION. All the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward.


Dear devotees, thus Sri  Bhagwan has made it clear that Effortless and Choiceless Awareness is reached only after deliberate meditation. Therefore, earnest sadhaks should first seek to destroy the age-long vasanas by deliberate meditation. Dear devotees, though meditation can take any form which appeals to one best, Sri Bhagwan's Teaching drove home the point and I gathered long ago that if one could mediate on an align idea, why should not one mediate on 'I'-consciousness or 'I'-ness directly which was within the experience of everyone of us?

All the scriptures, all great ones and Gurus have said the same, but can anyone without deliberate and conscious mediation attain the State of Silence, free from the mental chirping ever arising on account of entrenched age-long predispositions?

Dear devotees, what is this talk of thought and the thinker? I am cent percent certain that if one contemplates on Sri Bhagwan's Teaching as following, all doubts and confusions regarding thought and thinker will vanish sooner than later.

Sri Bhagwan: The other name'Pure Mind' implies impure mind also. It is the rajasic or active mind or the ego; this too can be projected from the former satvic mind through another reflection only; thus the ego is the product of the second darkness (avidya). Then comes the tamasic or the dull mind in the shape of the inner organs; this appears as the world.
Sri Bhagwan:From Her sublime activity satva-filled reflection results; FROM  IT THE  RAJASIC  EGO;  THEN  TAMASIC  THOUGHT-FORMS  WHICH  ARE  COMMONLY  KNOWN  AS  KNOWLEDGE.






Dear devotees, the first darkness, that is, the Original Ignorance and the Light passing through it gives rise to what is known as the Reflected Light or the  Pure Mind or even Ishvara. 
The above Teaching leaves no scope whatever for the argument as to which is prior,  that is, whether it is the thinker, or the thoughts dependent on him.  It is obvious that both 'I'-thought and 'this'-thought arise from the same light and they are related to rajoguna and tamoguna respectively. But rajoguna and I-thought appears first and then appear tamsaic thought forms to this 'I'-thought. However, I feel that that indeed it is more appropriate to say that both arise simutaneously. It is true that the appearance of thinking process brings into picture the thinker and thoughts.Yet, it is certainly a mistake to assume that thinking first brings about the objective thoughts without first creating the 'I'-thought or the thinker.

So, from understanding and experience I understand what happens and I have no doubt and confusion regarding the same. What is most important is the earnest Practice of the Self-enquiry as taught by Bhagwan Sri Ramana. I only wish to say that we should not lose the great opportunity that has come our way due to past good actions in acrimonious debates and worthless arguments and counter arguments. Polemics will take us nowhere.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:00:29 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4591 on: February 09, 2016, 11:28:02 AM »
Friends,
Here is an excerpt from Talk 286,Talks with Sri Ramanamaharshi which summarizes all that we have discussed:

D.: How is realisation made possible?
M.: There is the absolute Self from which a spark proceeds as from fire. The spark is called the ego. In the case of an ignorant man it identifies itself with an object simultaneously with its rise. It cannot remain independent of such association with objects. This association is ajnana or ignorance, whose destruction is the objective of our efforts. If its objectifying tendency is killed it remains pure, and also merges into the source. The wrong identification with the body is dehatmabuddhi ('I-am-the-body' idea). This must go before good results follow.
D.: How to eradicate it?
M.: We exist in sushupti without being associated with the body and mind. But in the other two states we are associated with them. If one with the body, how can we exist without the body in sushupti? We can separate ourselves from that which is external to us and not from that which is one with us. Hence the ego is not one with the body. This must be realised in the waking state. Avasthatraya (the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep) should be studied only for gaining this outlook.
The ego in its purity is experienced in intervals between two states or two thoughts. Ego is like that caterpillar which leaves its hold only after catching another. Its true nature can be found when it is out of contact with objects or thoughts. Realise this interval with the conviction gained by the study of avasthatraya (the three states
of consciousness).


Namaskar
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:33:06 AM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4592 on: February 09, 2016, 01:10:24 PM »
Sri Sadhu Om:
When Bhagwan said that we should not carry on reading innumerable books, He was referring to those books that analyse and discuss the non-self. So long as we do not have sufficient vairagya (desirelessness) to attend constantly to ourself, we must continue to read books that encourage vairagya. For encouraging vairagya, which entails giving up attention to second and third persons, Bhagwan's own works are quite sufficient. Even just one of His works, such as 'Nan Yar?' (Who am I?), is sufficient. Vairagya is the only thing that is lacking, and when it becomes established in our heart all problems will be solved.
Mountain Path




Dear devotees, I agree with Sri Sadhu Om. One should not carry on reading innumerable books, having been initiated to Consciousness.  His own Works indeed are enough. However, I also feel that so long as one has not cultivated sufficient dispassion through sadhana to maintain constant Self-attention, one should continue to read Sri Bhagwan's Works.  I, for this reason alone, gave up reading innumerable books by so many great ones, barring those which are necessary for my professional works, and instead read now only Sri Bhagwan's Works. I, for this reason alone, have carried on to constantly post something under this topic and thus to constantly dwell on His Words of Grace.
Pranam,
  Anil         
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 01:13:57 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4593 on: February 09, 2016, 04:13:39 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
"Who sees the shirt?Whose eyes saw the shirt?How was the 'shirt' identified as a 'Shirt'?Whose 'sensation' was that?.It is clear that the 'Thinker' is already there doing all this.Only the 'thinker' has not taken the form of a 'partisan Interpreter' until he comes to say that 'I like the shirt and want it'"



Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, I agree. But then, there is no confusion regarding the same whatever in the first place.  Such confusion will evaporate if we carefully read and contemplate on  His Words of Grace as following:


Sri Bhagwan: The root of your difficulty lies in the confused commingling of two separate ideas into one: The 'I' and the 'body'. When you are aware of the chair, it is the thought  SUBSEQUENT  to the PRIMAL  ONE, 'I am the body'. The latter is the substratum of all your thoughts of the world experience. It arises first, THEN  ONLY  CAN  THEY  COME.  Hence when it fails to arise--as in deep sleep--the world experience also fails to enter your consciousness. Now of these two ideas, the 'I'-thought is enduring one whereas the body-thought is a transient one.
Conscious Immortality


Dear Sri Ravi, I feel that the above Teaching will settle the matter for once and all, at least here in this forum.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:15:53 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4594 on: February 09, 2016, 05:09:56 PM »
Anil,
Yes.Dehatma Buddhi-I am the body is what is primeval and fundamental wrong identification.The ending of this through enquiry or surrender is the way.My previous quote from Sri Bhagavan also points this.
Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4595 on: February 09, 2016, 06:07:17 PM »
Sri Bhagwan: The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. THE  THOUGHTS  ARISE  BECAUSE  THERE  IS  THE  THINKER.  The thinker is the ego. The ego, if sought, will vanish automatically. The ego and the mind are the same. The ego is the root-thought from which all other thoughts arise.
Talk--195




Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi. Thoughts arise because there is the thinker!  Ego or the thinker is the 'I'-thought. Sri Bhagwan has taught that in its subtle form it remains a thought whereas in its gross aspect it embraces mind, senses and body.
 

SrI Bhagwan: Ego is not an entity independent of  the Self in order that it might be created or destroyed by itself.  It functions as an instrument of the Self and periodically ceases to function, that is, it appears and disappears as birth and death (Talk--285).

Moreover, Sri Bhagswan has taught that life-current has passed through innumerable  incarnations, births and deaths, but it still remains unaffected.
Form the above discussion it certainly follows that 'I'-thought is fundamentally different from the associated, other objective thoughts. 

Pranam,
   Anil

« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 06:22:20 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Sadhak

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4596 on: February 10, 2016, 02:12:57 AM »
Quote
Who sees the shirt?Whose eyes saw the shirt?How was the 'shirt' identified as a 'Shirt'?Whose 'sensation' was that?.It is clear that the 'Thinker' is already there doing all this.Only the 'thinker' has not taken the form of a 'partisan Interpreter' until he comes to say that 'I like the shirt and want it'

You are completely off on this one as well. But I am not going to bother providing long quotes on this topic. Since you consider this to be a serious topic, your seriousness must drive you to read the explanations of Krishnamurti and there are tons of material from him on this subject.

Seeing without the seer, and then how thought arrives a fraction of a second later to create the thinker, the process of identifying a shirt based on past memory etc etc are all well covered.

Hope you find what you are seeking since I am clearly not able to communicate well with you.

All the best.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4597 on: February 10, 2016, 06:59:54 AM »
Sadhak,
Yes,Thanks.I have just indicated in that statement that such a 'thinker' has already come into play and the 'Interpretation' (although not a 'Partisan interpretation')has already taken place.
We will continue this important 'discussion' in the Rough Note book thread and hopefully it will be useful to one and all.
Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4598 on: February 10, 2016, 10:13:17 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi,
"I have just indicated in that statement that such a 'thinker' has already come into play and the 'Interpretation' (although not a 'Partisan interpretation')has already taken place.
We will continue this important 'discussion' in the Rough Note book thread and hopefully it will be useful to one and all."




Dear Sri Ravi,

Since I have no doubt or confusion regarding the matter under contention, and since Sri Bhagwan Himself never, in my view, encouraged such debate, and since I do not feel that this discussion is important for the Sadhana of the Vichara, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, I do not wish to participate in such discussion. However, since this discussion is obviously important for you, you and Sri Sadhak may continue to work it out here itself for the sake of continuity, if you are still interested. 

Thanks very much, dear Sri ravi.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4599 on: February 10, 2016, 10:16:57 AM »
Sri Michael James:

We already experience this 'I', of course, but what we are now trying to experience is not anything other than it, but is just this same 'I' but with a greater degree of clarity--in fact, with absolute clarity. At present the clarity with which we experience 'I' is less than perfect, because we experience it mixed with other things that we mistake to be 'I', such as our body and mind, and hence our current experience of 'I' is confused and clouded by our experience of those extraneous adjuncts as 'I'. Therefore, though we clearly know that I am, we do not clearly know what I am, so Bhagwan advises us to investigate and find out who or what we actually are.




Dear Devotees,


Thus,  Sri James explains that what we are seeking to experience when we practice Self-enquiry or Self-attention or the self-investigation is not anything mysterious or anything previously unknown, but is only 'I', ourself with which we are already more familiar than we are with any other thing.

We have to constantly remain on guard and diligently seeking the source,  we  have to fight out and ultimately get rid of  our false notion of 'I',  one after the another, through the  great Quest or Investigation.  We have ever-present, inescapable  'I' with us  and therefore none of us is really ignorant., as Sri Bhagwan has taught.  So, if we pursue the Direct Path, and the ego or the thinker merges in the Source, we ourselves shine as  'I  AM  I'.  Then only we know not only that I am, but without confusion and doubt , and without subject-object relationship, who really we are, with perfect clarity.  This is how I understand Sri  James's above statement.


Devotee: What is the object of one's life?
Sri Bhagwan:  The object is to understand who is that 'I' contained in your 'my'.



Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil


   
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:22:00 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4600 on: February 10, 2016, 11:17:50 AM »
Anilbhai,
Yes,Thanks very much.I did not wish to continue it here in this thread as I did not wish to clutter it.The Rough Note book thread is the one I usually resort to for 'free discussion' on any topic.This is the reason that I have shifted it there.

Yes,I do think that this discussion will be beneficial to most readers.I have already completed (as I think!)the discussion with 'The Observer and the Observed' and it is akin to the situation in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.Here is the excerpt:

Quote
A bird sat absent-mindedly on the mast of a ship anchored in the Ganges. Slowly the ship sailed out into the ocean. When the bird came to its senses, it could find no shore in any direction. It flew toward the north hoping to reach land; it went very far and grew very tired but could find no shore. What could it do? It returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After a long while the bird flew away again, this time toward the east. It couldn't find land in that direction either; everywhere it saw nothing but limitless ocean. Very tired, it again returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After resting a long while, the bird went toward the south and toward the west. When it found no sign of land in any direction, it came back and settled down on the mast. It did not leave the mast again, but sat there without making any further effort. It no longer felt restless or worried. Because it was free from worry, it made no further effort.

Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4601 on: February 10, 2016, 05:50:57 PM »
Sri Sadhu Om:
"If we practice self-attention correctly, we will find it to be a great relief and relaxation from our normal mental activities."




Dear devotees, if Self-attention is practiced correctly, as revealed and taught by Sri Bhagwan, thought-wave gradually begins to subside, and  thought-tortured mind intuitively begins to understand and experience  state of thoughtlessness,  and one begins to have a foretaste of Realization, albeit in flashes,  besides finding it to be a great relief and relaxation from constantly rising, in the waking and dream states, as the mind  and suffering  endlessly due to tyranny of thoughts and the mind. 
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4602 on: February 11, 2016, 10:16:32 AM »
Q: From where do these objects arise?
Sri Bahgwan: Just from where you arise. The subjects comprehends the object also. That one aspect is an all-comprehensive aspect. See yourself first; and then see the objects. WHAT  IS  NOT  IN  YOU  CANNOT  APPEAR  OUTSIDE.
The cinema illustration: You are the screen, the Self has created the ego; ego has its thoughts which are displayed to the world like cinema pictures. Those thoughts are the world. But in reality there is nothing but Self. THESE  ARE  ALL  PROJECTIONS  OF  THE  EGO.
What is real can never become unreal and vice-versa. The world becomes unreal in sleep, hence it never did possess reality. But being, the 'I', always exists, hence it is always real.
Conscious Immortality



Dear Devotees,
Whose are the thoughts? To whom are the thoughts? Sri Bhagwan has taught that  the Self has created the ego , and the ego is an instrument of the Self which appears and disappears periodically.   So, in the state of relativity the ego is the subject which comprehends the objects also.  And Sri Bhagwan has taught unequivocally that what is not in us cannot appear outside, and that all these are projections of the ego alone.  This reminds me of Sir Emanuel Kant's Categorical Imperatives (a priori principle--from cause to effect)!

Dear devotees, from Sri Bhagwan's Utterances, it is crystal-clear what exactly is meant.  Sri Bhagwan never encouraged His devotees to get trapped in metaphysical subtleties and philosophical intricacies, though mind relishes creating and solving intricacies and riddles. Instead, He almost always directed the minds of those who came to Him INWARD,  and encouraged them to practice the Direct Path.  AND  ONLY  PRACTICE  IS  TO  FIND  OUT  "TO  WHOM  ALL  THESE  QUESTIONS,  DOUBTS  AND  CONFUSION  ARISE?" Only after Realization the ego-I, which posed as the subject so far,  is found to be an object.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 09:23:53 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4603 on: February 12, 2016, 09:13:35 AM »
                 LET  HIM  BE  PRESENT  AND  HE WILL ALWAYS  BE   AVAILABLE.


Q: What meditation will help me?
Sri Bhagwan: No meditation on an object is helpful, for this reason. You must learn to realize the subject and object as one; and in meditating on an object, whether concrete or abstract, you are destroying that sense of oneness, and creating duality. Meditate on the Self. Try to realize that the body is not you, the emotions are not you, the intellect is not you. When all desires are stilled, you will find--something else is there; hold it that it will reveal itself. 
Q: But when I have stilled all I almost fall asleep?
Sri Bhagwan: That does not matter. Put yourself into the condition as deep as sleep, and then watch; be asleep consciously; then there is only the Consciousness.
Q: Is yoga a good method of approach?
Sri Bhagwan: In the end there is only one approach to the Goal, and that is through the realization of the Self, so why waste time on other roads which at the best will only lead on to the final path; better to be on the final path itself all the time, than on an auxiliary road. Meditate on what the Self is; that is all, there is nothing else but to find the answer to that. See the Self in all; act spontaneously, so to speak, and let 'it' be present and it will always be available. Do not look to results; do what is right and leave it.
Conscious Immortality






Dear Devotees,

When one meditates on the Self, sooner or later, experience of being the Self is gained.  One must learn to experience oneself as formless and therefore worldless through meditation on the Self.  When one is intellectually convinced that the Self is the Eye of Infinite Consciousness,  why should one continue to pursue dualistic sadhana,  which destroys the sense of oneness or the unity, by creating subject-object divide, is beyond my understanding.  If one wants to realize the Atma-swarupa in this very life-time, and attain the Goal for which one has been born, meditation on the Self  alone is the Path of least distance.   If only one is not able to pursue this sadhana, one should resort to dualistic spiritual practices, which, as Sri Bhagwan has assured, will ultimately lead on to the final sadhana. 

Body, emotions, intellect, etc. , pertain to the  spurious ego, and when one gravitates within deeper and deeper to one's Core,  by persevering on the meditating on the Self, becomes Source-aware or the Self-aware, and  this  appearing and disappearing sense of  'I'-ness is seen clearly as to what really it is,  and realization dawns that one is not the body, one is not one's emotions and one is not the intellect. What I wish to say is that the Self-enquiry itself enables one  to understand and realize the illusoriness of the ego-mind, even before the completion of the sadhana, and  with it is revealed the untenability of the body,  emotions and intellect.  Of course, Grace is needed, but if one is seized with this quest and meditation,  this is clear  proof of showering  of His Grace, and divine fervor.  This is how I have understood  and practiced Sri Bhagwan's Teaching , and experienced peace even amidst turmoil.

Dear devotees, lastly I wish to say that one should practice Enquiry as one has understood, and persevere in this practice.  Self-enquiry is its own guide  and will lead one  to that variant of the Enquiry which is most appropriate for one, depending on one's maturity.  If one wants to learn to play guitar, one starts practice with a guitar and not with a flute. LET   HIM  BE  PRESENT, HE  WILL HIMSELF  REMOVE  ALL  THE  OBSTACLES  ON  THE  PATH.  It is His Job. Our job is to do only what we have been told to do.   


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
   Anil     
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 12:53:10 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4604 on: February 12, 2016, 10:58:13 AM »
Q: What kind of teaching is suitable to young men? Will they understand the naked truth?
Sri Bhagwan: Their attention might be drawn to the Truth from time to time in an appropriate manner.
Q: What does Maharshi say about hatha yoga or tantric practices?
Sri Bhagwan: Maharshi does not criticize any of the extant methods. All are good for the purification of the mind, because the purified mind alone is capable  of grasping this method and sticking to its practice.
Q: Which is the best of the different yogas?
Sri Bhagwan: See Verse ten of the Upadesa Saram.




Dear devotees, Verse ten of the Upadesa Saram declares that establishing the mind in its native state of quiet repose in the space of the Heart  is undoubtedly the essence of all yogas---karma, bhakti, raja and jnana.  Therefore, CHOICE  is always ours,  Goal is ever-standing and is already being experienced, by everyone of us, without exception,  albeit partially, since attention is elsewhere. 
 Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 11:00:10 AM by eranilkumarsinha »