Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 727081 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2010, 03:49:47 PM »
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

 Thank you so much, Sir, for imparting to us the knowledge
 about the background that led to the composition of
 the divine song 'Atma Vidya Kirtanam'.

                                               With Regards,
                                                      Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2010, 04:19:12 PM »
 Dear Devotees,

  Lo, very easy is Self-knowledge,
  Lo, very, easy indeed............

 The great poet and devotee, Sri Muruganar sang divine words of Sri Bhagwan effortlessly,
 pouring his heart out.

 Sri Bhagwan also said that of all the ways Self-enquiry is the easiest.
 But Sri Bhagwan also said that the desire for Self-realization while still
 holding on to the 'I am the body' idea is akin to crossing a river clinging
 to a crocodile.

 What do the above two statements of Sri Bhagwan mean to us ?
 My understanding is as following :
 They mean that so long as one identifies himself with the body, Self-knowledge is not easy.
 But when one ,by Grace, contemplation and earnest will to know the Truth,
 discards 'I am the body' idea and doubts genuinely the body-identity,
 Self-attention is effortless outcome of Self-enquiry leading to Self-awareness.

 And then only the Poet sings,

 Lo, very easy is Self-knowledge
 Lo, very easy indeed.............

                                                            Thank you
                                                               Anil
 


 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »



Dear Anil,

Your interpretation is also good.  But what Bhagavan Ramana
told as to why it is easy, this Self Knowledge is:

1.  For good karmas like helping others, feeding others, building temples, running free schools, hospitals etc., one needs money
and people to assist him.

2.  For bhakti i.e. devotional path, one needs a god's image
by way of photos or idols and flowers, sandal paste, incense sticks,
camphor for lighting, coconuts, fruits and finally good sweets and cooked rice for submitting the same as Naivedyam, offering.

3.  For yoga marga, one needs a good physique, capacity to retain
breath within the lungs, concentration, etc.,

However for Self Knowledge, one does not need any outside
assistance or even a good physique.  One can even lie on the
bed, and inquire who am I?  One should only direct the attention
to the Self.  No specific place or time.  No wealth and health is
needed.  And that is why it is easy.



Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2010, 06:19:06 PM »



Dear Anil,

In Talks No. 551, when someone asked about the Atma Vidya
being easy, Bhagavan Ramana gave the replies:

Q:  How is that Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is said to be the
easiest?

Bhagavan:  Any other vidya requires, a knower, knowledge, and the
object to be known, where this does not require any of them.
It is the Self.  Can anything be so obvious as that?  Hence it is
the easiest.  All that you do is to inquire, Who am I?

Bhagavan Ramana says the same thing in Verses 43 and 44 of
Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai:

43.  You are the sole Reality, O Arunachala, Reveal yourself
as such.

Okay, what we should do?  Even this Aruanchala says:

44.  How is it, O Arunachala, you told me:  "Turn and look within and ever seek the Self with the inner eye and you will see it".

What external things do we need for this?



Arunachala Siva.         

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2010, 06:57:51 PM »
Dear Subramaniyan ji,


The main problem lies here, it is very difficult to turn around inside because the habit of going and looking outside for many many
janmas. Even if it is turned the mind does not stay for a second. As Bhagavan says grace is necessary for everything.
It is like URIADI UTCHAVAM. Many many slips between cups and lips.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2010, 09:44:28 AM »



Dear ramanaduli,

Yes.  I fully agree with you.  It is easier said than done.  The mind
is so attuned to jump outside [because of vasanas] and we always
try to search the Truth through external forms like worships, dhana,
dharma, etc.,  Bhagavan Ramana never criticized these things. 
For many devotees, these things were going on side by side along
with self inquiry.  But what He said that the Self is ever more directly
perceivable than even the nellikai [amla fruit] on the palm.

Annamalai Swami has mentioned this somewhere in his conversations.

   

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2010, 10:14:32 AM »



From Living by the Words of Bhagavan:  [David Godman]

Bhagavan:  As an example of direct perception, everyone will quote
the simile of the nellikai [amla fruit] placed on the palm of the hand.
The Self is even more directly perceivable than the fruit on the palm.
To perceive the fruit, there must be the fruit, the palm to place it on
and the eyes to see it.  The mind should also be in the proper condition [to process the information].  Without any of these four
things, even those with very little knowledge can say out direct
experience, "I am".  Because the Self exists just the feeling "I am".
Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is very easy indeed.  The easiest path is to see the one who is going to attain the Atma.

Another devotee asked a similar question in a little later and Bhagavan gave a similar reply:

Question:  Why cannot the Self be perceived directly?

Bhagavan:  Only the Self is said to be directly perceived [pratyaksha].  Nothing else is said to be pratyaksha.  Although,
we are having this pratyaksha, the thought "I am this body" is veiling it.  If we give up this thought, the Atma, which is always within the direct experience of everyone, will shine forth.



Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2010, 12:38:52 PM »



Dear srkudai,

Yes.  What you say is correct.  The Self is self revealing.  Aparoksha.
This is more clearly explained by Bhagavan Ramana, in Talks No. 466.

Question:  Is not the Self the witness only?  Sakshimatra?

Bhagavan:  "Witness" is applicable when there is an object to be
seen.  Then it is duality.  The truth lies beyond both.  In the mantra,
sakshi cheta kevalo nirgunascha, the word 'Sakshi' must be understood as Sannidhi - Presence, without which there could be nothing.  See how the sun is necessary for daily activities.  He does
not form part of the world actions.  Yet they cannot take place without the sun.  He is the witness of activities.  So it is with the
Self.     

Again in Day By Day, entry dated 18th July 1946:

Bhagavan:  Talking of "witness"  should not lead to the idea
that there is a witness and something else apart from him that he
is witnessing. The 'Witness' really means the light that illumines
the seer, the seen and the process of seeing.  Before, during and
after the triads of seer, seen, and seeing, the illumination exists.
It alone exists always.

You remember, srkudai, sometime back, there was some discussion
on "witnessing the consciousness".  Consciousness cannot be witnessed.  Consciousness Is.  If someone had mentioned so, it
is only in the light of this explanation by Bhagavan Ramana.



Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2010, 12:59:20 PM »



The Self is not giving any experience.  Bhagavan Ramana says
It illumines.  This illumination will confer the experiencer to experience
the Bliss.  He is simply blissful, Sat-Chit-Anandam.  That is all.
In that state of Bliss only, Mastan Swami remained standing in front
of Bhagavan Ramana for 7 hours.  Devaraja Mudaliar had this experience for a few minutes when he was sitting close to Bhagavan
Ramana one day, and when Bhagavan Ramana gazed at him, suddenly. Major Chadwick had it in his bath tub, and came running to Bhagavan Ramana with wet towel around his waist.  He asked:  "Bhagavan! Is it so simple?"  Bhagavan Ramana smiled and said:
Yes. It is.

I think this is some sort of a transmission of the power of the Presence. Or it can also be called Guru Krupa.  Sri Ramakrishna transmitted to Vivekananda, something similar to it.  I am not sure.   



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2010, 03:06:08 PM »



To be ever free, restful is itself bliss.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sad Darsanam, Verse 32:

For him who is the bliss Self, arising from the extinction of the ego,
what is there to do?  He knows nothing other than this Self.  How
to conceive the nature of his state?

Bhagavan's Verse 7 in Guru Vachaka Kovai:

Tranquillity of mind is alone, the liberation that is ever attained.
This being so, prey tell, how can those who set their mind on
siddhis, which cannot be gained without mental movement, become
immersed in the bliss of liberation that is free from the perturbation of the mind?

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 37:

If I slumber in quiet repose enjoying the bliss of being, what other
moksha is there, tell me, O Arunachala!




Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2010, 09:14:13 AM »
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji and Sri Udai Shankar Ji,

 Thank you so much for a very,very fruitful and satisfying discussion.
 My understanding about the nature of Self is the same as you have indicated in your posts.

 Self is Self-luminous and, therefore, Self-revealing.Self is Absolute Consciousness or Supreme Consciousness.
 Only and only It is.It admits of no thought whatever.Only vast Silence, nay, Infinite Silence of speechless speech,
 beyond mind and words.Even saying as the above is only for us, the sadhakas, for the purpose of discussion
 and intellectual understanding.

 Dear Sri Udai Shankar, I agree totally with you that indisputable content of the 'experience' is That about which
 nothing can be said whatever.

 Sri Bhagwan's reply, in this context, with the analogy the Sun, is the most apt one we can ever hope to get.
 It is Illumination.
 Presence.
 Like the Sun which is the cause of every thing.And in its mere  presence every activity is taking place.
 But the Sun will continue to shine even without these.

                                                                               Thank you,
                                                                               With Regards,
                                                                                     Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2010, 09:32:49 AM »
 Dear Sri Subramanian ji

 Sir, I also do not understand the premise of one 'consciousness witnessing the other consciousness'.
 Consciousness can not be witnessed. Only Consciousness is. They are all the tricks of the ego to
 escape when subjected to intense search light of Sef-enquiry.


                                                                                 Thank you,
                                                                               With Regards,
                                                                                   Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2010, 09:42:34 AM »



Dear Anil,

Consciousness shines and illumines others.  It is not witnessed.
It witnesses the three stages of jagrat, swapna and sushupti.
It witnesses, the creation, sustenance and dissolution of the
world.  Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam
Verse 2:

As on a screen a wondrous picture,
On You fair Hill, is all this world
Formed, sustained and then withdrawn,
Ever as "I" in the heart, you dance,
Hence are you called the Heart.

HEART = ATMA = ARUNACHALAM = CONSCIOUSNESS.

Consciousness is the ocean of grace.  It is also the glittering
sun.  It makes the heart blossom, like the sun makes the lotus
blossom -  Verse 1 of the same.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2010, 11:26:08 AM »
 Dear Sir, I feel grateful.The content of your above post makes a great sense and a meaning to me which
 which is at once profound and deep but at the same time bestowing intuitive understanding as well as awareness
 of the essence in the post.

 However, dear Sir, I wish to listen enlightened and graceful words from you about how
 ' Full of Nectar' and 'Ocean of Grace' in the first verse of the 'Arunachala Panchratanam'
  should be understood by us sadhakas? 
                                                                 
                                                       With Regards,
                                                            Anil

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2010, 07:31:46 PM »
Can we really be sure that Consciousness is not witnessed? What if this Consciousness happens to You? And You are a mere witness, not a witness of an object, but a witness to whom all this happen.