Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755636 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4350 on: March 29, 2015, 09:27:17 AM »
Anil,
Here is an excerpt from Swami Krishnananda's commentary on the Panchadasi:

Internal to the mind is the intellect, which has the consciousness of the doership in actions. We begin to feel that we are doing something ? we are going, we are sitting, we are such and such. This appropriation of individuality and doership in actions is the function of the intellect, which is inseparable from the ego.

Internal to the intellect is the causal body. It is also known as the anandamaya kosha. Karta and bhokta are the words used here to designate the intellectual sheath and the causal sheath. It is on account of the operation of the causal sheath that we feel happy. We had occasion to know something about the working of these internal sheaths when we studied the first chapter.

In the causal sheath, there is a balancing of the properties of prakriti ? sattva, rajas and tamas, whereas in the other sheaths there is an imbalance of the properties. Some one or the other of the properties of prakriti gets accentuated or emphasised in the outer sheaths, whereas in the innermost level, the causal sheath, they are in an almost equilibrated condition. That is why we feel happy when the causal sheath works, especially in deep sleep. The doer is the intellect with the ego; the enjoyer is the causal sheath. That is why the two sheaths are called karta and bhokta, the doer and the enjoyer.

You may like to read the article:
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panchadasi/pan_14.html

The Self is beyond all these sheaths ,even the anandamaya kosha-as pure awareness.If there is nothing like a 'Bhokta' in sleep,simple sleep should bestow 'Jnana' which is not the case.

This is how Swami Vivekananda explains this in his Raja yoga:

"When a man goes into deep sleep, he enters a plane beneath consciousness. He works the body all the time, he breathes, he moves the body, perhaps, in his sleep, without any accompanying feeling of ego; he is unconscious, and when he returns from his sleep, he is the same man who went into it. The sum total of the knowledge which he had before he went into the sleep remains the same; it does not increase at all. No enlightenment comes. But when a man goes into Samadhi, if he goes into it a fool, he comes out a sage."

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4351 on: March 29, 2015, 09:36:35 AM »
Anil,
I have also posted in that thread the following excerpt from 'The Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi' .I am posting it again here:

Quote
If the ego identifies itself with the subtle mind, as in dream, the perceptions are subtle also. But in sleep there are no perceptions. Was there not the ego still? Unless it was, there cannot be the memory of having slept. Who was it that slept? You did not say in your sleep that you slept. You say it now in your wakeful state. The ego therefore is the same in wakefulness, dream and sleep. Find out the underlying Reality behind these states. That is the Reality underlying these. In that state there is Being alone. There is no you, nor I, nor he; no present, nor past, nor future. It is beyond time and space, beyond expression.


Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4352 on: March 29, 2015, 11:26:47 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, I am happy with this discussion. This is where, that is, expression of happiness of the state of sleep on waking up, I am not able to formulate words to express adequately and share my understanding and insight.  I do not have much time. Therefore, I wish to first quote and post Sri Bhagwan's Words of Grace in series, and then I would share my understanding and insight regarding the same, with you and other members of the forum. 

Sri Bhagwan: We are happy in deep sleep. We remain then as the pure Self. The same we are just now too. In such sleep there was neither the wife nor others nor even 'I'. Now they become apparent and give rise to pleasure of pain. Why should not the Self, which was blissful in deep sleep, continue its blissful nature even now? The sole obstruction to such continuity is the wrong identification of the Self with the body.
Talk-203


Therefore, dear sir, in deep sleep mind is said to remain merged in nescience and not destroyed, only to reappear. This is why sleep cannot reveal the Self.  However, yes, I agree that when one reports on waking up, 'I slept happily', this feeling of happiness is enjoyed in the anandmayi kosa only. For that matter, all the pleasurable states are enjoyed in the anandmayi kosa only.  Sri Bhagwan has taught that in deep sleep all thoughts disappear and this state of obscuration is one of bliss.

Sri Bhagwan: In sleep there was no world, no ego, (no limited self), and no trouble. Something wakes up from that happy state and says 'I'. To that ego the world appears.
Talk-63

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 11:29:48 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4353 on: March 29, 2015, 12:26:43 PM »
Anil,

Quote
We are happy in deep sleep. We remain then as the pure Self. The same we are just now too.

This is just to say that Self alone is.

To recognize this,the identification with the mind has to cease.If this identification is made to cease when the mind is active,such an identification would cease during the sleep state also when the mind is dormant.Hence Sadhana can be pursued in the waking state but if done with intensity can continue in the dream and sleep state as well.The Sleep then will be very light and not be the stupor.

This Light Sleep is what is called Sushupti.The waking will also be Light and the contrast between sleep and wakefulness would diminsh-for now the state of restfulness continues unabated.

It is not as if Sleep,Dream and Waking states are three distinct states-They coexist and it is only a degree of preponderance of the three that determines which one is what.Sleep is characterized by Forgetfulness,Dream is characterized by imagination and Wakefulness is characterized by wilful action.

The waking state of the ajnani is characterized by forgetfulness of the Self(Hence he is asleep) and the Sleep state of the jnani is characterized by awareness of the Self(hence he is awake).The Jnani continues to be awake in this sense in all the three states.The Ajnani continues to be asleep in all the three states.

Irrespective of what words are used,it is the fundamental Truth  these words point out that is relevant.

Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4354 on: March 29, 2015, 05:40:04 PM »
Quote:
"This is just to say that Self alone is."
"To recognize this,the identification with the mind has to cease.If this identification is made to cease when the mind is active,such an identification would cease during the sleep state also when the mind is dormant.Hence Sadhana can be pursued in the waking state but if done with intensity can continue in the dream and sleep state as well.The Sleep then will be very light and not be the stupor."




Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes. This is beautiful. This is why Sri Bhagwan has even taught that just on rising up from the sleep, and before seeing the objective world, there is a state of awareness which is our pure Self.

Sri Bhagwan: But you admit your existence then. The same Self is now speaking. The Self who was undifferentiated in sleep is differentiated in the present state, and sees diversity. The Real Existence is the only One devoid of objective knowledge. That is absolute consciousness. That is the state of happiness, as admitted by all of us. That state must be brought about even in this waking state. It is called jagrat sushupti. That is mukti.


Dear Sri Ravi, Sri Bhagwan has taught that there is no mind in sleep, whereas it is now active. The difference is due to emergence of the mind now (in waking). The Self exists then in the absence of the mind (Talk-293).

However, I admit that though I do not agree, such discussion as to whether mind is there in sleep in subtler form to experience the happiness of sleep has gone on unabated among the seekers of truth from time immemorial.

Thanks very much, dear bhai saheb.
Pranam,
  Anil   


« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 05:42:12 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4355 on: March 30, 2015, 07:24:58 AM »
Anil,

Quote
Dear Sri Ravi, Sri Bhagwan has taught that there is no mind in sleep, whereas it is now active. The difference is due to emergence of the mind now (in waking). The Self exists then in the absence of the mind (Talk-293)

Sri Bhagavan also taught that there is no mind in the waking state as well!So that means that he is pointing out a totally different way(fundamental)of viewing.

We may explore this to understand the sushupti referred to and translated as Deep Sleep.Supti is sleep and what is referred to is sushupti or deep sleep.The moot question is whether one experiences sushupti!When and if so whether it is under one's control?
We also know that there is a state of laya, a blissful state of sleep which one enters when one tries to meditate-Laya is caused by a temporary preponderance of Tamas in the mind.
So,we may readily understand that there are grades of sleep and associated spectrum of consciousness.
As long as one identifies as the jiva,one is subject to the fruits of karma-and the fruits of Karma are the experiences that one undergoes in all the three states.The Bhokta continues in all the three states.So,the quality of sleep that a jiva enjoys depends on this Karma.The purer the mind(with less vasanas),the deeper the sleep and more peace it enjoys in the sleep state as well as the waking state.
The simple Fact is that if the mind is not there in the sleep state,there is simply no possibility of its being imbued with this peace.This is immediately noticeable when one awakens from sleep.If one wakes up unrefreshed,it simply means that his mind has still been active in an unconscious manner.It has not experienced what is called sushupti.

What happens to the mind in sushupti?What is meant by saying that there is 'No Mind'?It just means that the mind is resolved as the Self.The pure mind is the same as the Self.Further,what is it that compels the mind resolved into the Self to wander again when it emeges in the waking state?Why does it not stay resolved as the Self in the waking state as well?

So,it has to be admitted that if the mind does not stay resolved as The Self in the waking state,it does remain so in the sleep state as well-This is posited as the causal State of the mind and it is said to operate in the anandamaya Kosha,which is the sheath nearest to the Self(so to say).It is also posited that the moola ajnana as Nescience covers it(as avarana) and hence the awareness of the Self is not there.

The upshot of the whole thing is that as long as we admit the presence of mind in the waking state (as apart from the Self),we have to admit its presence in the Sleep state as well.We then say that it is dormant and not active.

Why then it is said that there is 'No Mind' in Sleep?It is said so because we identify the mind as 'restlessness' and are not conscious of it in sleep.It is only when we wake up we realize whether the restlessness was absent or not.

We may take the help of an analogy.Let us say that we have appointed a watchman to our house.Throughout the Day the watchman performs his function and let us say that we have given him a small quarters or outhouse in the same compound for him to retire for the Night.If someone comes and asks us -"Don't you have a watchman in the Night time?",we may say "No.We do not have a watchman during the night time",although the 'day watchman' is very much present and resting in the outhouse house.Now because the 'Day watchman' is resting in the outhouse ,it does not mean that he has become Master of the House.If he does not wake up in the morning ,the master will wake him up and ensure that he takes up his duty as 'Day Watchman' again.He simply got a respite from his duty during the Night time.
Now if the Master was so pleased with the watch man for having been scrupulous in discharging the work entrusted to him,he may absolve him of his 'watchmanship' and may tell him 'I am pleased with you now.You need not be a Watchman any longer.You are like one of the members of our family.Please stay with us as one of us.Sleep in our quarters.The watchman then ceases to be the watchman'.

The mind has to be Resolved as the Self in the waking state-then it is Jagrat Sushupti.Then it stays resolved as The Self in sushupti as well.There is NO MIND apart from the Self.

Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4356 on: April 02, 2015, 02:47:04 PM »
Sri Muruganar:
Having experienced fully the great bliss of the sublime state of sleep where no object exists, it is sheer ignorance not to value that state and to regard it as one's salvation, but instead to desire something else, imagining it to be one's defence against the misery that one experiences.

You are associated with abundant ignorance in sleep, fainting and similar unconscious states only with respect to the absence of knowledge about the alien objects that are perceived by the bustling ego. You should know that there is never any ignorance of the ever-shining Self.

The ignorance of forgetfulness which makes you say that the waking state of illumination makes you also declare that sleep is sheath of ignorance. If the belief that the waking state is the illustrious and unique state of truth goes, then sleep will become, and shine as pure non-dual reality.



     
Quote from Sri Ravi:

Quote
"Dear Sri Ravi, Sri Bhagwan has taught that there is no mind in sleep, whereas it is now active. The difference is due to emergence of the mind now (in waking). The Self exists then in the absence of the mind (Talk-293)"

"Sri Bhagavan also taught that there is no mind in the waking state as well!So that means that he is pointing out a totally different way(fundamental)of viewing."

"So,we may readily understand that there are grades of sleep and associated spectrum of consciousness.
As long as one identifies as the jiva,one is subject to the fruits of karma-and the fruits of Karma are the experiences that one undergoes in all the three states.The Bhokta continues in all the three states."




Dear Sri Ravi and Dear devotees,


First, I wish to say that I am not concerned right now with different grades of sleep here, but that deep sleep or the state of sleep which Sri Bhagwan has taught is Prajnana or Full Knowledge as opposed to ajnana in the waking state.  Well, I know that I shall not like to concern myself with the above interpretation (quote from Sri Ravi) of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching on the mind, and the three states of waking, dream and sleep. I do not feel that there is any need on the part of sincere and earnest sadhakas who practice Atma-vichara to go for any other interpretation because Sri Bhagwan Himself has lighted the intuitive path compassionately with such clarity and without ambiguity whatever that its practisers are safeguarded against derailment and pitfalls on the path, and does not leave any scope for its otherwise interpretation. This is what I have understood and I have no doubt whatsoever  in respect of His Teaching on the Atma-vichara in particular and mind and three states in general. For instance, I feel that anyone who practices Atma-vichara ought not to have any confusion and doubt over following Words of Grace:

Sri Bhagwan: Sleep is said to be ajnana (ignorance). That is in relation to the wrong jnana (knowledge) prevalent in the waking state. The waking state is really ajnana (ignorance) AND  THE  SLEEP  STATE  IS  PRAJNANA (FULL  KNOWLEDGE).


Q: Sushupti (deep sleep) is often characterised as the state of ignorance.
Sri Bhagwan: NO  IT  IS  THE  PURE  STATE. There is full awareness in it and total ignorance in the waking state. It is said to be ajnana (ignorance) only in relation to the false jnana prevalent in jagrat (thy waking state). Really speaking the waking state is ignorance and sushupti, the sleep state, is prajnana (wisdom). If sushupti is not the real state where does the intense peace come from to the sleeper? It is everybody's experience that nothing in jagrat can compare with the bliss and well-being derived from deep sleep, when the mind and the senses are absent. What does it all mean? It means tthat bliss comes only from inside ourselves and that it is most intense when we are free from the thoughts and perceptions, which create the world and the body, that is, when we are in our pure being, which is Brahman, the Self. In other words, the being alone is bliss and the mental superimpositions are ignorance and, therefore, the cause of misery. THAT  IS  WHY  SAMADHI  IS  ALSO  DESCRIBED  AS  SUSHUPTIIN  JAGRAT (sleep in the waking state); the blissful pure being which prevails in deep sleep is experienced in jagrat, when the mind and the senses are fully alert but inactive.

Sri Bhagwan: The awareness is at present through antahkarnas (the mental faculties). Prajnana (TRUE  AND  PERFECT  KNOWLEDGE)  is always shining, even in sleep. If one is continuously aware in jagrat (the waking state), the awareness will continue in sleep also.


Sri Muruganar: He who has woken up from sleep declares the truth of his experience when he says, 'I slept happily'. It is a fact, acceptable to all, that in the natural state of deep sleep, wherein the mind remains thought-free, having no contact with sense objects, the Self is experienced as happiness. The bliss that was your own nature in the state of sleep ceases and fails to manifest when you wake because the desires that chase after sense-objects make you forget your Self-nature, which is bliss, and separate you from the state of the Self. Therefore, you should attain the fortune of unsurpassed bliss, your own true experience, by having a mind that does not, through the desires that arise from delusion, wander after sense-objects, that remains calm without forgetfulness of the Self in the waking state, just as it does in sleep.
 




Dear devotees, 'sakala' is said to comprise of waking and dream states. AGAIN  THIS  SAKALA  IS  SAID  TO  ALTERNATE  WITH  'KEVALA'  OR THE SLEEP. Mind creates the states of waking and dream, and kevala is the state of dormancy in which it is unaware of itself, the body or the world.

Metaphysically and epistemologically, I-concept is the ego, I-Illumination is Realisation or the Real Self. It alone is the Pure Knowledge. Relative knowledge is also a concept. THE  BLISS  OF  THE  BLISSFUL  SHEATH  IS  ALSO  A  CONCEPT. Now, I wish to say that though it is surmised that unless there is experience, however subtle it is, one cannot say 'I slept happily', the bliss of the sleep, now being reported in the waking state, is but a concept now  to the awakened person.

Dear devotees, I am aware also that this concept of experience of Bliss in sleep is same as in the Realisation of Supreme Bliss some kind of knowledge, experience or concept is admitted as a concession to the discussion, though it may be subtler than the subtlest, for in the relativity, experience is not possible without simultaneous relative knowledge, they say.


Having said as the above, now I wish to say that as far as I am concerned, I have zeroed in on and contemplate on the Great Revelation:

THERE  IS  THE  CONTINUITY  OF  BEING  IN  ALL  THE  THREE  STATES,  BUT  NO  CONTINUITY  OF  THE  INDIVIDUAL  AND  THE  OBJECTS.

Dear devotees, I have endeavoured consciously to shirk away from all argument in all circumstances. I have written only what I have understood and according to my own deep feeling. However, you are free to accept what you can and reject what does not go well with you. That is all I wish to say for now.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil                     
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:18:02 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4357 on: April 03, 2015, 09:02:18 AM »
Sri Bhgawan: You were not aware of the world and its sufferings in your sleep but you are conscious of them now in your waking state. Continue in that state in which you were not afflicted by them. That is to say, when you are not aware of the world, its sufferings do not affect you. WHEN  YOU  REMAIN  AS  THE  SELF,  AS  IN  SLEEP,  THE  WORLD  AND  ITS  SUFFERINGS WILL  NOT  AFFECT  YOU. Therefore look within. See the Self! Then there will be an end of the world and its miseries.
Be As You Are



Dear Devotees, 

This is not to say that one should desire to be always in sleep. In the first place, Sri Bhagwan has taught, it is impossible to be always in sleep, for it must, necessarily, alternate with the other states. Secondly, it cannot be the state of bliss in which the Jnani is established, for His State is permanent and not alternating. Besides, the sleep state is not recognised to be one of awareness by people, but the Sage is always aware.  Therefore, though sleep state is nearer to Pure Consciousness or the Self, it cannot be the Goal!

Dear devotees, yes, the ego is said to have a causal body during the sleep, and the sheath of anandmaya is said to be the causal body. Anandmaya is the sheath of pseudo bliss. Anandmaya is thus another name for ignorance or nescience.

Dear devotees, the Self is the only Reality. For us, therefore, causation is always with regard to the Self. Since every effect must have a cause, the appearances must also have a cause. And the Self alone is the cause of the appearance of this world and of everything else. For instance, causality vis-a-vis the Self can be understood by the analogy of the rope and snake:

The rope is the cause for the appearance of the snake in the sense that the snake pre-existed, so to speak, in the rope. Is it not? Snake is therefore caused as well as sustained by the rope and even finally disappears back in the rope on investigation. All the time there was nothing other than rope. The rope never ceased being a rope, even while it appeared as the snake. Can it be said causality? A  THING  APPEARING  DIFFERENTLY  WITHOUT  CEASING  TO  BE  ITSELF  EVEN  DURING  THE  DIFFERENT  APPEARANCE. Is theory of causality valid then for those who take up the direct path?

So, here when we speak of appearance, we understand that appearance is never apart from the Self. Therefore, the Self alone is the cause and basis of all appearances and disappearances and of everything that seems to exist or seems to have some being. This is why Sri Bhagwan taught to transcend all the sheaths including the anandmaya, and remain as pure being.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil           
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 09:08:43 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4358 on: April 03, 2015, 10:49:51 AM »
Q: How can the terrible fear of death be overcome?


Sri Bhagwan: When does fear seize you? Does it come when you do not see your body, say, in dreamless sleep? It haunts you only when you are fully awake and perceive the world, including your body. If you do not see these and remain your pure Self, as in dreamless sleep, no fear can touch you.
If you trace this fear to the object, the loss of which gives rise to it, you will find that that object is not the body, but the mind which functions in it. Many a man would be only too glad to be rid of his diseased body and all the problems and inconveniences it creates for him if continued awareness were vouchsafed to him. It is awareness, the consciousness, and not the body, he fears to lose.  MEN  LOVE  EXISTENCE  BECAUSE  IT  IS  ETERNAL  AWARENESS,  WHICH  IS  THEIR  OWN  SELF. Why not hold on to pure awareness right now, while in the body, and be free from all fear?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:51:27 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4359 on: April 05, 2015, 08:08:08 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Though I eschew from discussing theories, the three theories of creation have been discussed on a few occasions under this thread. I again come to this topic to show why those who practice Atma-vichara should not concern excessively and obsess themselves with the theory of causality per se. In this context, I would like to give a quote by Sri David Godman on the three theories of creation as following:

1. Ajata-vada (The theory of non-causality): This is an ancient Hindu doctrine which states that the creation of the world never happened at all. It is a complete denial of all causality in the physical world. Sri Ramana endorsed this view by saying that it is jnani's experience that nothing ever comes into existence or ceases to be, because the Self alone exists as the sole unchanging reality. It is corollary of this theory that time, space, cause and effect, essential components of all creation theories, exist only in the minds of ajnanis and that experience of the Self reveals their non-existence. ... 

2.  Drsti-srsti-vada (theory of simultaneous creation-anil): If His questioners found the idea of ajata or non-causality impossible to assimilate, He would teach them that the world comes into existence simultaneously with the appearance of the 'I'-thought and that it ceases to exist when the 'I'-thought is absent. This theory is known as drsti-srsti, or simultaneous creation, and it says, in effect, that the world which appears to an ajnani is a product of the mind that perceives it, and that in the absence of that mind it ceases to exist. This theory is true in so far as the mind does create an imaginary world for itself, but from the standpoint of the Self,  AN  IMAGINARY  'I' CREATING   AN  IMAGINARY  WORLD  IS  NO  CREATION  AT  ALL,   and so the doctrine of ajata is not subverted. Although Sri Ramana sometimes said that drsti-srsti was not the ultimate truth about creation, He encouraged His followers to accept it as a working hypothesis. He justified this approach by saying that if one can consistently regard the world as an unreal creation of the mind, then it loses its attraction and it becomes easier to maintain an undistracted awareness of the 'I'-thought.

3. Srsti-drsti-vada (gradual creation): This is the common-sense view that holds that the world is an objective reality governed by laws of cause and effect that can be traced back to a single act of creation. It includes virtually all western ideas on the subject from the 'big bang' theory to the biblical account in Genesis. Sri Ramana only invoked theories of this nature when He  was talking to questioners who were unwilling to accept the implications of the ajata and drsti-srsti theories. Even then, He would usually point out that such theories should not be taken too seriously as they were only promulgated to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
Source: Be As You Are




Dear devotees, I find myself completely one with what Sri John Grimes has written on the above quote by Sri Godman:


Sri John Grimes: A number of important points in the above quote (Sri Godman's) are worth mentioning. The non-creation theory is an attempt to describe the jnani's personal experience. Truly speaking, for a jnani, there is nothing to say and no one to say it to. It is only because a person assumes that there is birth (jati) that the jnani, out of compassion, opens his mouth and denies it--his words being but an intellectual statement or theory for the listener--the truth lies in experience, not in theory. One should not mistake map for territory, a finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself.
Secondly, the theory of non-origination is not a denial of the reality of the world, but only of the creative, causal process that brought it into existence. Sri Ramana often said, and His speech and actions only confirmed such, that the jnani is aware that the world is real--not as separate objects, but as an UNCAUSED  APPEARANCE  OF  THE  SELF.  The world's appearance is perceived by jnani, but it is not its appearance that makes it real, I is real because its appearance is inseparable from the Self. On the other hand, an ajnani creates with his mind an illusory world of separate objects by continually misinterpreting the sense-impressions it receives. In both cases, sense-impressions are perceived. Where they differ, and it makes all the difference, is that the ego, the me/my thought is absent in the jnani and present in the ajnani. Thus, the jnani perceives the Self, or better, reposes in the Self, while in the ajnani's mind, thoughts create a false separation between the Self and the not-Self.
The simultaneous creation theory, has an extremely useful aspect to it. While non-origination theory is a BREATHTAKINGLY  WONDERFUL  THEORY, it is more or less an intellectual theory. On the other hand, according to Sri Ramana, the simultaneous creation theory is a theory that can be PRACTICED and He encouraged His followers to accept it as a WORKING  HYPOTHESIS.  If one accepts the idea that the world is an unreal creation of the mind, then it will begin to lose its attractiveness, thus making it easier to focus on the source of the 'I'-thought.
Source: Ramana Mahrshi, Crown Jewel of Advaita






Dear devotees, where shall we go? Our own Self is verily the material as well as the efficient cause of all that appears, ceases to appear, disappears or ceases to disappear (mirage does not disappear even after knowing that there is no water).  This is why Sri Bhagwan has taught that if one's Goal is to realize the Self, one must assimilate the idea that the world is an unreal creation of the mind. This is the greatest help in the practice of Sri Bhagwan's Atma-vichara!  As one progresses thus, the world begins to lose its attractiveness, and does not appear that interesting anymore, and therefore it is progressively easier to focus undistractedly on to oneself. As one contacts consciousness, all duality including cause and effect is transcended.   

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil                       
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 08:15:34 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4360 on: April 05, 2015, 07:32:58 PM »
Sri Sadhu Om:

We know that all pleasures and pains are experienced  only by 'I', the ego, and they are not experienced in sleep, where the ego--the knower or experiencer--does not exist. However, we know that we exist even in sleep, and that we experience there a happy state, unaffected by any pain or multiplicity. Since we thus know from our own experience that we can exist happily without the ego, the knower of multiplicity, Bhagwan recommends that we should try to attain that egoless state even now.
The ego is now being nourished only by attending to and experiencing things that seem to be other than itself, because we know that whenever it ceases to attend to any other thing it subsides in sleep. In sleep we know nothing other than ourself, 'I am'. Therefore we know from our daily experience that our ego subsides whenever we attend only to ourself. Hence Bhagwan is simply pointing out to us what we already know from our experience.
There can be no disappointment in Bhagwan's path. Other gurus may tell us to come to them to experience the guru's presence, but Bhagwan says: 'Do not take this body to be guru. Do not come here expecting the guru's presence. Go within. The guru shines within you as 'I am', so he is always present in you as your own self'.
If we want to seek or rely upon anything outside ourself, we will certainly be disappointed, because whatever appears outside will sooner or later disappear. Hence Bhagwan advises us to attend only to 'I am'--to rely only on 'I am'. Therefore, since 'I am' alone is ever present, if we follow His advice, how can we ever be disappointed?
Source: Mountain Path   
   
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:36:33 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4361 on: April 06, 2015, 10:19:15 AM »
Sri Sadhu Om:

Bhagwan has introduced revolutionary meanings for many old and traditional words. For example, He was the first to reveal that 'grace' (arul) is nothing but self, and that 'heart' (hridayam)also means the self. He has revolutionised literature, philosophy, sadhana, the description of the state of self-knowledge, and so on. That is why we should not give any of His books for review, because very few people, no matter how learned they may be, will be able to appreciate and adequately understand His ideas or the way He uses words. It would be like giving scriptures such as Bhagavad Gita for review. The world is yet not ready to receive His teachings as they are. This is why I say we must simply keep the glow of His teachings burning within ourself. We do not have to propagate them, but we must preserve them as best as we can.
Actions are generally classified as those of body, speech and mind, but it is only a superficial classification, because our body and speech and all their activities do not exist independent of our mind. Our mind alone is what functions through our body and speech.
We also talk of triputi, the three factors of objective knowledge, namely the  knower, the known and the act of knowing, but if we consider them carefully, we will find that they are all only an expansion of the ego, the one 'I' that rises to know anything other than itself. But how to stop the rising of this 'I'? As Bhagwan explained to us, the only way to stop its rising is to watch it vigilantly.
When our understanding is sharpened by the resulting clarity of self-awareness, we will come to recognise that this watching is merely being--that is, it is just being the pure self-awareness that we actually are. Bhagwan's path is actually just total relaxation--doing nothing but just being as we really are. This is the sum and substance of entire spiritual science.
Source: Mountain Path (Current Issue)






Dear devotees, a great man and a great devotee that Sri Om is, how wonderfully, yet simply, he has brought out great truth, which took me years of sadhana to understand and assimilate that 'attending to' or 'watching vigilantly' is nothing something alien to my nature, but that it is just being 'myself' bereft of the mind which rises as the individual 'I', that it is merely being, that is, it is just being the pure Self-awareness that we really, absolutely are! That alone is real Life. That alone is our real Home and  Existence. IT  IS  INDEED A  GREAT  INSIGHT! 

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     

« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 08:08:38 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4362 on: April 06, 2015, 11:01:52 AM »
Dear devotees, it is, in my view, noteworthy that in quotes by Sri Sadhu Om (my last two posts), he uses deliberately the word 'self' for the 'Self' and 'ourself' in place of grammatically  correct 'ourselves'.  Why so? In my view, Sri Om wants to drive home with emphasis Sri Bhagwan's Fundamental Teaching that there is one Self and not many selves. Can we not sense that the 'self' in 'myself' or that which rises as the individual 'I', within ourselves in the waking state, contains within itself not only the ENIGMA  OF  EXISTENCE, BUT  SIMULTANEOUSLY OF  CONSCIOUSNESS,  OF  BLISS !
Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 08:07:53 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4363 on: April 07, 2015, 08:03:05 AM »
Sri Sadhu Om:

When we first come to our guru, our love for Him is so great that it occupies our whole mind, so we lose all interest in whatever else we previously desired.  This is what Bhagwan referred to in verse 318 of Guru Vachaka Kovai when He said 'the feet of gueu-natha, who has taken us as His own by extinguishing the threefold fire.' However, this peace and freedom from desire is only temporary, because the guru knows that in order for us to hold this peace permanently we must master it ourself, so after giving us a foretaste of the happiness of desirelessness, He puts us into the battlefield to face all that is within us.
As Bhagwan said in the third chapter of Maharshi's Gospel in reply to a devotee who said that after he left His presence the peace he experienced there continued for a while as an undercurrent, but then faded away: 'If you strengthen the mind, that peace will continue for all time. Its duration is proportional to the strength of mind acquired by repeated practice (of self-attention), and such a mind is able to hold on to the current of peace.'
WHAT  IS  IMPORTANT  IS  NOT  OUR  ABILITY  TO  ABIDE  AS  SELF,  BUT  OUR  LOVE  TO  DO  SO. Such love is true bhakti, and unless we have it God and guru can do nothing for us. They will not absorb us into self until we wholeheartedly love to subside and be absorbed forever.
Mountain Path (Current Issue)






Dear Devotees,


We all love Self the most. Do we not? Well, Sri Bhagwan has taught that if anything is dear to us, it is because of our love for the Self only. IF  OUT  ATMA-SWARUPA  IS  ALL  THERE  IS,  IF  IT  IS  ONLY  THE  SELF  WE  LOVE,  WHY  SHOULD   SWARPA-DHYANA  OR  SELF-ATTENTIVENESS  APPEAR  SO  DIFFICULT? Because our attention is elsewhere, as if our happiness is in external, non-sentient, illusory objects! It is because of the ancient identification with the mind and its habitual chattering. A weak mind, getting branched out into numerous thoughts, need be strengthened in order to be able to attend only to Swarupa-dhyana.


Therefore, initial euphoria of reaching the Lotus Feet of the Guru notwithstanding, we need to pursue and push the Enquiry further and go deeper and deeper within to know that the foretaste of existence-consciousness-bliss (I understand it as Sri Ramana Lahari) that was granted when we first came to the Feet of Guru-Natha, when we first were caught in the Jaws of Guru's Grace, was only the tips of the iceberg. Mind is strengthened of its own accord and one intuitively realizes what 'love for the Self', Sri Bhagwan speaks of, means.  We realize that everything and everyone, including all life-forms are nothing but Existence-Consciousness-Bliss, or Satchidananda! All Love and Beatitude! OUR  OWN  ATMA-SWARUPA!  Thus, we come to truly understand the import of Sri Bhagwan's and Sri Adi Shankara's Teaching that Swarupa-anusandhanam (investigation into the nature of Self) is indeed the real bhakti or real love!   

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 08:17:39 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4364 on: April 12, 2015, 09:22:13 AM »
Bhagwan Sri Ramana to Sri Dilip Kumar Roy: People call Him by different names, but He came to me with no name or introduction so I know not how to define Him. What happened was that my desires and ego left me, how and why I cannot tell, and that I lived thenceforward in the vastness of timeless peace.
He added with a smile: Sometimes, I stayed with closed eyes and then, when I opened them, people said that I had come out of my blessed meditation. But I never knew the difference between no-meditation and meditation, blessed or otherwise. I simply lived a tranquil witness to whatever happened around me, but was never called upon to interfere.  I could never feel any urge to do anything except to be, just be. I see that all is done by Him and Him alone, though we, poor puppets of maya, feel ourselves important as the doers, authors and reformers of everything! It is the ineradicabe ego, the I-ness in each of  us, which is responsible for the perpetuation of this maya with all its attendant sufferings and disenchantments.

Sri Dilip Kumar Roy: What then is the remedy?
Sri Bhagwan : Just be.  Delve down into That which only is, for when you achieve this you find 'That am I'; there is and can be nothing else then than That. When you see this, all the trappings of maya and make-believe fall off, even as the worn-out slough of the snake. SO  ALL   THAT  YOU  HAVE  TO  DO  IS  TO  GET  TO  THIS  'I',  THE  REAL  'I'  BEHIND  YOUR  SEEMING 'I', for  then you are rid for ever of the illusive I-ness and all is attained, since you stay thenceforward    at one with That which is you; that's all.
Sri Roy: We have to do nothing then?
Sri Bhagwan: Why? You have done the greatest thing, the only thing that is worth doing, and when you have done this, you must rest assured, all that has to be done will be done through you. The thing is not to worry about doing; just be, and you will have done all that is expected of you.
Sri Roy demurred: That is all very well. But who is to show us how to do this, or rather be, as you put it? Is not a guide, Guru, necessary? Or are you against Guruvad (the Guru principle)?
Sri Bhagwan: Why should I be against Guruvad?
He smiled: Some people evidently need a Guru; let them follow him. I  AM  AGAINST  NOTHING  EXCEPT  THE  EGO,  THE  I-NESS  WHICH  IS  THE  ROOT  OF  ALL  EVIL. Rend this and you land pat in the lap of  the one Reality, That, the one solvent of all questionings.
Sri Roy asked: But why then you do not come out to preach great message? For most people, you will agree. Do not even know there is this I-ness to be got rid of.

Sri Roy has mentioned that Sri Bhagwan gave him that quizzical smile tinctured with His characteristic irony.

Source: Forever Is In The Now


   





Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan has taught that if one but thinks a noble, selfless thought, even in a cave, it sets up vibrations though out the world and does what has to be done. Yes, we see that Sri Bhagwan's 'Who am I?' enquiry is now vibrant throughout the world and is making  earnest seekers of the world aware that all they need do is to hold this reflected 'I'-ness for finding out that this is mere seeming reflection of  the Real 'I'. If this truth is once revealed that this seeming 'I' which is the mind, is illusory, real 'I', our own real Self is what remains and shines forth.

Dear devotees, it is high time that we, all seekers of truth, must come to know that there is an I-ness  to be got rid of, for Sri Bhagwan has taught that all we have  to do is to get to this 'I', the real 'I' behind our seeming 'I', for once this seeming, reflected 'I' is removed by Enquiry, all is attained, for we thenceforward are one with That Which alone is Real, Spaceless, and Timeless, 'We' (Self-awareness) that abides forever. This is the Goal, how we do it, that is, whether we do it by direct method of Enquiry or some other spiritual practices, will always depend on our level of maturity and predilection.  No question about that.

Pranam,
  Anil                   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 09:29:30 AM by eranilkumarsinha »