Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755631 times)

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #435 on: January 20, 2011, 05:22:33 PM »
Attention is grace, a channel to direct energy, it is you yourself. Attention dwells on itself and transcends itself. This is the mechanism.

A thought is a form of energy.

A thought control process table:

Uncontrolled chatter: "I should get a doorbell..."

Slowly comes to: "I should get a do..."

After some practice: "I should get..."
"I should..."

Nearly controllable: " ..??? " - this is when a pressure of thought is seen before it has formed into a special form.

Perfect control: " " - no thought pressure at all - clear surface mind. Now a deep work can start.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #436 on: January 21, 2011, 06:43:36 AM »



Dear amiatall,

Nice explanation.  The pupa [?] inside the cocoon contemplates on
its form and one day, it breaks open the cover and comes out
as a bee.  This example is given by many scriptural authors.
Atma Bodham [Tamizh version of Sri Bhagavan] Verse 49 gives this.

Attention towards the Self is to realize the Self.
 


Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #437 on: January 21, 2011, 09:29:11 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri amiatall,

Yes. I have almost exactly the same or similar knowledge and understanding with regard to attention and a thought. Attention is shradha as Sri Subramanian sir pointed out and it is grace to channel energy as Sri amiatall defined it. Attention is the power of the Self. It is consciousness, nay, it is the consciousness aspect of the mind. It is pure. Its movement gives rise to a thought.   

Sri Subramanian sir says that any simple movement of the mind is thought. I wish to elaborate it a little. When consciousness aspect of the mind, which is pure attention, moves from one object to another, physical or mental, I have a thought. The vasanas in seed forms cause attention to move out and it does not stay on a single object. It keeps on moving from one object to another. At a time, I have the thought of only that object on which my attention is riveted at that particular point of time. Thoughts are like waves in the consciousness.

If the external movement of the attention gradually slows down to one object, or a concept or whatever, by sadhana, and finally on to itself, it transcends itself. This has been presented so beautifully and picturesquely by Sri amiatall by his ‘A thought control process table’.

Thank you so much for your response.

                                                                                               Regards,
                                                                                                  Anil     

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #438 on: January 21, 2011, 10:36:44 AM »
DEar Subramaniyan ji,

Does the thought comes to contemplate. If so this thought can be called attention/grace/awarness. Is not it? Like the recent ads. for surf says the stain is good if it has meaningfull act.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #439 on: January 21, 2011, 11:20:48 AM »



Dear Anil,

Thought is the movement of mind, it is energy.  Sometimes, the energy is deeply embedded within, and does not come out immediately.  It is hidden-thoughts or vasanas.  Sri Bhagavan says
that even vasanas should be exhausted, not by making it a thought,
but through self inquiry.  For a example, Saint Tirunavukkarasar was
already 80 years old.  He was sweeping and cleaning the temple in
Tiru Adigai.  There, Indra, so the story goes, sent some dancing girls.  Now what is the use of dancing girls to a 80 year old man?
You may ask.  But the story is to verify that whether the saint had got vasanas for sex.,  He might look at these girls sexually, if his
vasanas had not been exhausted.  But the saint did not even look at them. 

Dear ramanaduli,

Even thought to contemplate is a thought. But it is a good thought. Such good thoughts should be cultivated, to remove the bad thoughts. For example, one can meditate or read some scriptures,
avoiding seeing the idiot box.  These are good thoughts to remove the bad thoughts.  But Sri Bhagavan says that even these good thoughts should go away at some point of time along with bad thoughts.  It is like using a thorn to remove a thorn on the sole and then throwing away both the thorns.



Arunachala Siva.   
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #440 on: January 21, 2011, 04:42:04 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji.Yes. There is no doubt that thought is the movement of the mind. Latent tendencies, in seed forms, are the hidden energy in the consciousness. It is this hidden energy which is the cause for the movement of the power of the Self, or the consciousness part of  the mind or the attention itself. I mean to say that in the absence of this movement mind is ‘Brahmakara’ or One with the Self.

At a particular point of time, I have a thought only of an object, physical or mental, only because my attention, at that particular point of time, is on that object. That object or form or a concept is my thought at a particular time on which is my attention at that time. Thus, a thought is the outcome of my attention on an object corresponding to that thought.

Dear sir, you have very nicely said that in the beginning it is the Self-attention towards the Self in the right side of the chest. At the end, all is Self and mind is not different from It.

You have also very nicely explained the efficacy of good thoughts. Sri Bhagwan has said that good thoughts should be cultivated to remove the bad thoughts. But in the end a thought, good or bad, or even the thought of ‘I’, is the hindrance in Realization and, therefore, should be discarded like the thorn used to take out another thorn from the sole is thrown away along with the troublesome one.

Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                       Regards
                                                                                          Anil         
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #441 on: January 22, 2011, 07:21:27 AM »


Dear Anil,.

Sri Bhagavan has said that even a single vasana can lead to rebirth!

Jata Bharata was the example.  A great ascetic, he had  love for the
young deer he was taking care, at the jungle.  Love for that deer did not leave him even at the time of death.  He felt sorry that he had to leave the deer uncared!  He had to take a rebirth as a deer due to this!



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #442 on: January 22, 2011, 08:03:03 AM »
‘I am’  is the Self. Yet I identify myself with the body which is itself insentient and does not say “I am the body” of its own accord. The unlimited and infinite Self also does not. Who says “I am the body” ? Who else is it (he) that says so ?

Sri Bhagwan : A spurious ‘I’ arises between the Pure Consciousness and the insentient body and imagines itself limited to the body. Seek this and it will vanish as a phantom. That phantom is the ego, or the mind or the individuality.

All the sastras are based on the rise of this phantom, whose elimination is their purpose. The present state is mere illusion. Disillusionment  is the goal and nothing more.
                                                         
                                                                     Talks, no. 427

Well, I feel that this is the most sublime and the most radical ever spiritual teaching  delivered by a Holy One. I also feel that the world and the modern man has not fully understood the implication of the advent of the GRRACE EMBODIED, Bhagwan Sri Ramana.

The meaning and implication of the above statement of Sri Bhagwan must be understood by the modern mind. Sri Bhagwan says that only the disillusionment is the goal, nothing more. Mind it, ‘nothong more’. Who will like to live with an illusion ? If only we reach a conclusion, by enquiry and discrimination, that this is a mithya (false) life in a mithya jagat based on a spurious and phantom like entity that is the ego ‘I’ can we really hope to rid ourselves of the illusory living based on illusory concepts.

                                                                                  Thank You,
                                                                                      Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #443 on: January 22, 2011, 02:09:52 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I read Sri Jata Bharata’s tale in Talks. His tale teaches that even a single attachment with the phenomenal world, even if it is for a good cause, is enough to cause rebirth. Even a great ascetic, such as Sri Jata Bharata, is reborn to end an attachment for the good cause. Sri Jata Bharata felt sorry that the deer would remain uncared after his death !

However, I wish to say that activities of the mind is no longer a problem if one is able to hold the Self all the while.

Sri Bhagwan : What does it matter if the mind is active ? It is so only on the substratum of the Self. Hold the Self even during mental activities.
                                                                                           Talk, no 406

Therefore, if one is adequately advanced enough to hold the Self, thoughts may come and go over the substratum, he remains unaffected and a mere witness, nay, presence. For Sri Bhagwan has said that witness implies dualism and sakshi (witness) should be understood as presence.

Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                                  Regards,
                                                                                                     Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #444 on: January 22, 2011, 02:18:21 PM »



Dear Anil,

In this connection, Sri Ramakrishna used to narrate a story.
In the olden days, in large village houses, there will be pillars
in the hall as well as in front portals.  Young girls used to hold on
to the pillar with one and revolve round and round in good speed.
So long as the pillar is held tight with one gripping hand, then the
revolving girls would not fall down.  Otherwise, if there is a slip,
the girl will get injured.

So also with the activities of the mind. Hold on to the Self, the Pillar, the substratum and engage in world's activities as in the
girl's game of revolving around the pillar.  Then there is no harm.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #445 on: January 22, 2011, 02:42:45 PM »
Dear Sir, this is a very nice post. The story narrated by Sri Ram Krishna is in perfect conformity
with Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. By 'good speed' here in this context should mean a normal life.
Therefore, it follows that if one is able to hold on to the Self (pillar) unwaveringly (tight),
he can go on to live a normal life as ordained (can revolve at a good speed without harm).
Isn't it sir ? Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #446 on: January 22, 2011, 05:00:46 PM »
Dear Sir, the second line in my last post should read " The teaching contained in the story
as narrated by Sri Ram Krishna is in perfect harmony and unity with Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. "
I didn't feel it appropriate to use the word 'conformity'. Thank you sir. Regards. Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #447 on: January 23, 2011, 08:34:27 AM »
THERE IS NOTHING TO ATTAIN AND NO TIME WITHIN WHICH TO ATTAIN, YOU ARE ALWAYS THAT. YOU HAVE NOT GOT TO  ATTAIN ANYTHING. YOU HAVE ONLY TO GIVE UP THINKING YOU ARE LIMITED, TO GIVE UP THINKING YOU ARE THIS BODY.
               
               ( Sri Bgagwan, Printed on the backside of the diary, 2011, Sri Ramanasramam )

If I give up thinking that I am limited in this body, I am here, there, and everywhere. If there is no time to attain, and if I have got nothing to attain, this means I am ‘now’, not a trice of a moment earlier or later. The above translates into a great truth : “ I AM HERE AND NOW, NOT ANYWHERE ELSE, NOT AT ANY DIFFERENT TIME. BUT HERE AND NOW.

It is the greatest of ironies that we all are doing sadhanas to achieve only that –to be here and now. What a wonder ! We even set a time table to be here and now. Isn’t it the greatest irony of all ?

                                                                        Thank You,
                                                                            Anil         



Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #448 on: January 23, 2011, 09:26:14 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  We are always the Self. The One without a second. All our
efforts are to remove the non-Self, which is nothing but the I-
thought, the ego.  Ahandai uru azhithale mukti - says the last
sentence of ULLadu Narpadu.  This is possible through two ways:

1. To investigate the nature of the ego and attention towards the
Self.

2.  To retain the ego and do devotion and then submit the ego finally in self surrender.  This self surrender is Saranagati.

Sri Bhagavan said the second one to Mother Azhagamma and the first one to Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #449 on: January 23, 2011, 09:37:18 AM »
In the context of the discussion on ‘thoughts’, I quote below from Talks, no. 613 as follows :

“A young man asked : “ Are thoughts mere matter ? “
Sri Bhagwan             : What do you mean ? Do you mean ‘matter’ like the things you see
                                    around ?
Devotee                                : Yes-gross.
Sri Bhagwan              : Who asks this question ? Who is the thinker ?
Devotee                      : The thinker is spirit.
Sri Bhagwan               : Do you mean that spirit generates matter ?
Devotee                       : I want to know.
Sri Bhagwan                : How do you distinguish between matter and spirit ?
Devotee                       : Spirit is consciousness and the other is not.
Sri Bhagwan            : Can consciousness generate non-consciousness, or light darkness ?”

Light cannot generate darkness. Consciousness cannot generate non-consciousness. Jnana cannot generate ignorance. And, of course, spirit cannot generate matter.

But Sri Bhagwan says that the world is mental, mere thoughts. And seemingly one sees that the world is composed of the matter. So it is but natural for one to infer that thoughts are the matter.

Therefore, the  above  statements  of  Sri Bhagwan implies that the thoughts are not real. They are a mere appearance. They are like waves, like vibrations, rising and subsiding,  in  the ocean of the consciousness. They are nothing per se, intrinsically in themselves, perception of the world and myriad of concepts, forms, and objects in it notwithstanding. Brahman or the Self is pure Consciousness, Pure Knowledge, Pure Bliss, PRESENCE, It cannot create dream like world and idea of sorrows, joys, fear, envy, hatred etc. They are mere appearances, like the appearance of water in a mirage.

                                                                                              Thank You,
                                                                                                   Anil