Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758300 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4290 on: March 05, 2015, 05:34:23 PM »
                    "I came for your sake. Your prayers dragged me here."


Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan once has remarked that God or Guru is seeking His devotees with deep solicitude they can never imagine. What follows is an anecdote which shows how solicitous and compassionate Sri Bhagwan is for His devotees:

Once while attempting to save a squirrel from a dog, Sri Ramana accidentally broke His collarbone. It took sometime for the collarbone to heal and Sri Ramana was considerably weakened by the accident . Having hardly healed, Sri Ramana heard that some devotees were going to  Skandasramam and said that He wanted to go along. Sri Ramana was told that that a three-hour walk up the Hill, under the blazing sun, with frail health would be inadvisable. Nonetheless, to their surprise, Sri Ramana went. WHY? Soon they found out. There was a mason doing some odd jobs at Skandasramam. Sri Ramana said to him: "I came for your sake. Your prayers dragged me here". It seems that four days earlier, in connection with the raising of the pillars for the New Hall, special worship had been conducted. Sri Ramana had attended this function with the doctor's permission. The mason had also attended the function. There, the mason had silently prayed, "How lucky are these people who are constructing this Hall! Sri Ramana, Himself, has come to see their work. Sri Ramana is so weak so how could He come to see the work that I am doing  at Skandasramam with such patient care? Besides, it has been a year since He last came to Skanadasramam. It would be too much to hope that He would do so now. How wonderful would it be if He did." Thus, the reason Sri Ramana went up the Hill was revealed and He then personally inspected the mason's work. Such is the compassion of Sri Ramana.

Source: Unforgettable Years


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 05:37:31 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4291 on: March 06, 2015, 08:42:54 AM »
D: I understand that the Self to be the Master and must be sought within. So I can do it where I live.

Sri Bhagwan: The understanding has been theoretical. When it is put into practice difficulties and doubts arise. If you can feel the presence of the Master where you are, your doubts are readily overcome, for the Master's part consists in removing the doubts of the seeker.  The purpose of your visit is fulfilled if the doubts do not arise hereafter, and you apply steadily in the search for the Self.




Dear Devotees,

Thus, Sri Bhagwan has taught that uncertainties, doubts and fears are natural to everyone until the Self is realised. They are natural to everyone because 'everyone' is imagining himself to be the unreal ego and uncertainties, doubts and fears are inseparable from the ego. Nay, we should say, they (uncertainties, doubts and fears) are the ego, and therefore, will go away with the ego, and not otherwise! 

So, it follows that if the seeker knows beyond doubts that the Master is the Self, he cannot see duality in other respects either and is happy, and no questions and doubts arise for him,  for such a one always feels the Presence of his Master within wherever he is.


Sri Bhagwan: The only thing that matters is that YOU  SEE  THE  SELF.  This can be done wherever you remain. The Self must be sought within. The search must be steadfast. If that is gained there is no need to stay near the Master as a physical being.
 

Therefore, dear devotees, the crux of the matter is we see the Self, that is, we are aware of 'ourselves' wherever we are, we are able to contact the consciousness wherever we are. Hence, in my view, we must keep visiting Sri Ramanasramam so long as questions, uncertainties, doubts and fears are arising, to sit in Silence of the Self (Master), for Grace operates and intuition arises in His Silent Presence. Doubts are cleared and the seeker begins to awaken from the deep slumber of ignorance. 

As I have understood, Self is God and Guru or the Master, but one can bring the truth of the statement to bear in practice  always only if one is able to feel the Presence  of one's Master wherever one is and whatever one is doing. For, Sri  Bhagwan  has taught that God  appears in human form as a Master or Guru to  speak the language of the devotee and make him understand the Reality.


Sri Bhagwan: If that is gained there is no need to stay near the Master as a physical being.


It follows from above that so long as one cannot find the Self remaining where one is, or one does not know and  bring the truth of the statement that the Master is God manifest and is verily one's Self, to bear in practice, one has always done well in having come.

GOD,  MASTER  AND  SELF  ARE  INDEED  THEREFORE  SEEMING  STAGES  IN  THE  REALISATION  OF  THE  TRUTH.



Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 08:50:46 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4292 on: March 06, 2015, 01:08:55 PM »
Dear Devotees,

The greatness of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching, in my view, lies also in the fact that His 'Words of Grace' leave one in no doubt as to what exactly is the Goal, as to what exactly should be done to realize the Goal. I used here the word 'realize' and not 'achieve' or 'attain' consciously, because Goal is already attained, never not attained.  We have to realize the Atma-swarupa or the Self that we ever are, and this is why Self-realization is sometimes described as the attainment of the already attained.  For, do we really need to attain or achieve our own Swarupa or the Self or the Natural State? No, even in the state of relativity we know for sure that WE  ARE.  Do we not? So, there is no ambiguity in the  Teaching and it hardly leaves any scope for the learned to come out with myriad interpretations.

For instance Sri Bhagwan has taught:



"Whatever the path one may choose, the 'I' is inescapable, the 'I' that does the selfless service (Nishkamya), the 'I' that pines for joining the Lord from where it feels it has been separated, the 'I' that feels it has slipped from its real nature, and so on. THE  SOURCE  OF  THIS  'I'  MUST  BE  FOUND  OUT.  Then all questions will be solved."




We now know with absolute certainty that the effacement of the ego or the 'I'-thought is the Attainment or the Realization of the Swarupa.  We also know that 'I' and 'mine' are interdependent and destruction of either of them causes the destruction of the other. This is why Sri Bhagwan has taught that the end of sadhana, even in the bhakti marga, is attained only after complete surrender. Therefore, whatever the means, destruction of the sense of 'I' and the sense of 'mine' is the Goal. LET  EVERYONE  OF  US  DO  IT  FIRST  BY  A  MEANS  WHICH   ATTRACTS  OR  APPEALS  TO  ONE  THE  BEST, for the effacement of the sense of 'I' and the sense of 'mine' alone will result in the Self or the Swarupa remaining as It always is.  Self or the Swarupa alone ,however, is  the Source, which when found all questions are solved. Not before.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil           
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 01:14:18 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4293 on: March 06, 2015, 05:42:51 PM »
              HEART  DIVING



Dive into the heart with strong tenacity,
Intense love, patience and alacrity;
Such practice must surely end in Jnana,
So said great Holy Sage, Lord Ramana.
He gave the Eki Sloka to the Muni
The Kavankanti who was like Ganapati,
Brother to God Skanda, the son of Shiva,
Who was reborn on earth as Sage Ramana
To bring us the blessing of atma vichara.

Such is the power of this great sadhana,
That egoism is removed and the Sun of Jnana
Shines forth to enlighten the sad ignorant jiva,
That's the great gift from Sri Bhagwan Ramana,
Who came on Earth to guide mankind to Jnana!
Sri Alan Jacobs


Dear devotees, the Eki Sloka here refers to the immortal Verse 'hridaya kuhare Madhye' or 'In the inmost core, the Heart shines as Brahman alone', as included in the Sri Ramana  Gita. This Verse also hangs above Sri Bhagwan's Couch in the New Hall engraved in gold on black asphalt

Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 05:54:07 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4294 on: March 07, 2015, 08:48:33 AM »
If the ego subsides permanently, its nature becomes fullness, the supreme abode that has existed all along as its substratum. If the ego is lost, there is no loss to one's swarupa. Therefore, without getting agitated, just be.
V. 352, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman


Dear devotees, why is there no loss of one's Swarupa? Because the ego being unreal reflection, it subsides  into the Fullness of the Swarupa in the same way as the unreal snake subsides or merges into the rope in the clear light. Therefore, when the ego or the mind is killed, result is not the blankness but the Fullness of the Source which is consciousness and bliss Itself.




Since your real nature, consciousness, truly exists and witnesses the falsity of 'I' and 'this' (seer and seen) even in the state of sleep wherein the existence of the world is negated, you must accept the logic that the real import of the word Atman is the incorruptible reality.
V. 355, GVK, Edited y Sri D. Godman

The state in which the thought 'I'-does not arise, even slightly, is the supreme reality of the Atman that is known as the Self. Is there anyone who, upon falling asleep, ceased to exist simply because the thought 'I' did not arise?
V. 356, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman




Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan has taught that we do not cease to exist in deep sleep where we do not have any sense of 'I', for the constant import of 'I' is That.




If the impure jiva ego dies away completely, the pure ego, the state of being the undivided Self, will shine forth. This shining is not counterfeit like that of the impure ego that constitutes bondage and which suffers by assuming a form upon the earth.
V. 359. GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman





Dear devotees, we are aware that the ghostly, impure ego grabs the corpse-like, insentient, log of a body as 'I'.  When the Enquiry is set up, this impure ego is extinguished, and the Pure Ego, which is the state of being the undivided Self, free from all cares and anxieties, will shine forth unobstructed. As the clouds are disbursed, the Sun shines forth unobstructed, likewise, when the clouds of thoughts including the 'I'-thought are gone, the Sun of the Self shines forth unobstructed. There is one Self, many selves are unreal, and simply do not exist. If we hold this impure and unreal ego by its jugular, it is bound to give way to the Real. If we hold ourselves, our own shadows cannot trouble us anymore.

Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 08:53:06 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4295 on: March 07, 2015, 11:35:02 AM »
Vichara! Thy Name  is Bhakti!

Dear Devotees,

I neither feel vibhakti nor viyoga. I do not feel separated and apart from that which is.  Atma-vichara,  True Bhakti,  Mahayoga and  Nishkamya are not dual, cannot be.  Jnana is Bhakti and Bhakti is Jnana.  True Love cannot be known in a subject-object relationship.

I do not recognise a path. What is a path, where is a path? I do not think there can be a paved path, constructed meticulously with a rigid rule that all should get transported to the Abode of the Lord in a laminar flow through this stream-lined track only.  No, I am aware that Wisdom, Devotion and Action are all interlocked, and therefore, not mutually exclusive.  On the contrary, they all are mutually inclusive.

I also understand that if one is told to have bhakti for God and he has bhakti straightaway for God, such a one is graced and blessed one. For such a one Bhakti is indeed the direct practice to realise the Self. Such a one indeed realises the God of his devotion rapidly and realise the Unity directly.

But some like me will always feel  that after all God too is thought of in and by the Self, and therefore God can be none other than the Self.  Such a one knows that Self and God are not two but One.  Naturally such a one will seek to know the more immediate and intimate 'I' than some imagined far-off God. Such a one will practice Vichara with intense love for the Self and seek to get established in Nishtha directly.

Sri Bhagwan: There is in fact no difference between bhakti and vichara.

Dear devotees, there is no meaning of a path for me anymore.  For me, Vichara is true bahkti and real Bhakti or nishkamya is profound Vichara.




Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 12:00:33 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4296 on: March 07, 2015, 03:42:28 PM »
Anil,
Beautiful post!
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"God cannot remain unmoved if you have raga-bhakti, that is, love of God with passionate attachment to Him. Do you know how fond God is of His devotees' love? It is like the cow's fondness for fodder mixed with oil-cake. The cow gobbles it down greedily.
"Raga-bhakti is pure love of God, a love that seeks God alone and not any worldly end. Prahlada had it. Suppose you go to a wealthy man every day, but you seek no favour of him; you simply love to see him. If he wants to show you favour, you say: 'No, sir. I don't need anything. I came just to see you.' Such is love of God for its own sake. You simply love God and don't want anything from Him, in return."

Saying this, the Master sang:
Though I am never loath to grant salvation,
I hesitate indeed to grant pure love.
Whoever wins pure love surpasses all;
He is adored by men;
He triumphs over the three worlds. . . .

He continued, "The gist of the whole thing is that one must develop passionate yearning for God and practise discrimination and renunciation."

I have something to say regarding this classification of Bhakti as dualistic,nondualistic,etc.This sort of classification do not cross my mind.We may explain it by the following analogy,although all analogies fall short if stretched beyond limits and analysed minutely.
As long as the needle feels attracted to the magnet-as far as the magnetic Domain is concerned-the magnetic field is one and only one-although we may think of one of the poles as 'south pole' and the other as 'North pole'-So an apparent 'duality' can coexist with Nonduality as well-and there need be no conflict in conception or actual practice.

This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts it-"Bhagavatha -Bhakta -Bhagavan"

God, the scripture, and the devotee are identical
"Keshab conducted the prayer that evening at the bathing-ghat on the river. After the worship I said to him: 'It is God who manifests Himself, in one aspect, as the scriptures; therefore one should worship the sacred books, such as the Vedas, the Puranas, and the Tantras. In another aspect He has become the devotee. The heart of the devotee is God's drawing-room. One can easily find one's master in the drawing-room. Therefore, by worshipping His devotee, one worships God Himself.'

This is a deep expression -although apparently there appears to be a division as 'God-Scripture-devotee'-they form a unity.This is the reason that Lord Jesus said:

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

The inner significance is that the way itself is the goal as well;the personal and impersonal are two sides of the same coin.If understood by the mind,there is division;if understood by the heart there is unity.The way of the mind is indirect;the way of the heart is direct.

For example ,what is the nature of Hanuman's devotion to Lord Sri Rama or that of prahlada ?We find the following excerpt from The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna:

God keeps in many people the 'ego of a jnani' or the 'ego of a bhakta' even after they have attained Brahmajnana. Hanuman, after realizing God in both His Personal and His Impersonal aspect, cherished toward God the attitude of a servant, a devotee. He said to Rama: 'O Rama, sometimes I think that You are the whole and I am a part of You. Sometimes I think that You are the Master and I am Your servant. And sometimes, Rama, when I contemplate the Absolute, I see that I am You and You are I.'

If we contemplate deeply,we may understand that all differences are on account of different perspectives and there truly is no difference fundamentally.They can all coexist.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 03:44:54 PM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4297 on: March 07, 2015, 06:28:16 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji, yes, Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi bhai saheb, for a post which contains some wonderful Words of Grace uttered by the greatest Bhakta, Sri Paramhamsa, and which compelled me to contemplate deeply. I am also one with your following insights: 

Quote:
"As long as the needle feels attracted to the magnet-as far as the magnetic Domain is concerned-the magnetic field is one and only one-although we may think of one of the poles as 'south pole' and the other as 'North pole'-So an apparent 'duality' can coexist with Nonduality as well-and there need be no conflict in conception or actual practice."

Quote:
"The inner significance is that the way itself is the goal as well;the personal and impersonal are two sides of the same coin.If understood by the mind,there is division;if understood by the heart there is unity.The way of the mind is indirect;the way of the heart is direct."


Ji, yes, these are beautiful insights which gladdened my heart. The way of the mind can never be direct whereas the way of the heart can never be indirect. Ji, yes, thanks very much, sir. 



Quote:
"God cannot remain unmoved if you have raga-bhakti, that is, love of God with passionate attachment to Him. Do you know how fond God is of His devotees' love? It is like the cow's fondness for fodder mixed with oil-cake. The cow gobbles it down greedily.?
"Raga-bhakti is pure love of God, a love that seeks God alone and not any worldly end. Prahlada had it. Suppose you go to a wealthy man every day, but you seek no favour of him; you simply love to see him. If he wants to show you favour, you say: 'No, sir. I don't need anything. I came just to see you.' Such is love of God for its own sake. You simply love God and don't want anything from Him, in return."

Saying this, the Master sang:
Though I am never loath to grant salvation,
I hesitate indeed to grant pure love.
Whoever wins pure love surpasses all;
He is adored by men;
He triumphs over the three worlds. . . .



Dear Sri Ravi, truth of Love is the Self or God. In other words, Self is love, God is love. Sri Bhagwan says that love for worldly objects is an inferior order and cannot endure. Therefore, pure love surpasses all because one who knows the secret of that pure love finds the world itself full of universal love. Sri Muruganar sang that this is seeing, hearing, eating, smelling and touching love, and only love, which is all bliss. 


Quote:
"God keeps in many people the 'ego of a jnani' or the 'ego of a bhakta' even after they have attained Brahmajnana. Hanuman, after realizing God in both His Personal and His Impersonal aspect, cherished toward God the attitude of a servant, a devotee. He said to Rama: 'O Rama, sometimes I think that You are the whole and I am a part of You. Sometimes I think that You are the Master and I am Your servant. And sometimes, Rama, when I contemplate the Absolute, I see that I am You and You are I.'"




Dear Sri bhai saheb, in my view, the ego of a Jnani or the ego of a Bhakta, even after they have attained Brahmajnana, cannot but be the Pure Ego, and not the impure ego which constitutes bondage and suffering. In one of the Verses from the GVK that I posted today( V. 359), Sri Muruganar has sung that if the impure jiva-ego dies away completely, the Pure Ego, the state of being undivided Self, will shine forth.



Pranam,
  Anil   

« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 06:31:25 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4298 on: March 08, 2015, 08:05:41 AM »
Sri Bhagwan:
Ego's perfection is suddenly broken at a point and a want is felt giving rise to a desire to get something or do something. When that want is cured by the fulfilment of that desire, the ego is happy and the original perfection is restored. 



Dear Devotees,

Ego's perfection here refers to the Pure Ego which is the state of being undivided Self. Sri Bhagwan says that our real nature is primarily one, entire, blissful.

Dear devotees, as per my understanding, when a want is felt giving rise to desire, this rising of the desire first causes the movement of prana, and the mind is caused by the movement of prana. Both thus arise simultaneously from the single Source, Consciousness.  Thus, movement of thought in the mind arises from the movement of prana, and the movement prana arises because of the movement of thought in the consciousness. They are thus said to form a cycle of mutual dependence, like waves and movement of currents in water.

Metaphysically, the illusory appearance of the world is said to be caused due to the vibration that arises in consciousness. Vibration and consciousness are inseparably one like the whiteness and the snow or fragrance and the flower. Similarly, the mind and movement of thought are inseparable and this is why the cessation of one is the cessation of both.

Dear devotees, the Sages have taught that the mind is caused by the movement of prana and hence by the restraint of breath, the mind becomes quiescent. And when the mind becomes quiescent, that is, movement of thought is arrested, the illusory appearance of the world ceases.

Therefore, hopes and desires are responsible for the movement of prana as well as  the movement of thought, and thus for rising of the mind as we understand it. When all hopes and desires come to an end in our hearts through earnest and sincere practice of the precepts of the Guru, cultivation of dispassion through devotion, contemplation and Enquiry, movement of prana is arrested, thereby arresting the movement of thought resulting in the cessation of the mind, and that is the end of the ignorance and the relativity.

MIND  IS  THE  RIDER  AND  THE  BREATH  THE  HORSE. 


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
   Anil
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 08:08:39 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4299 on: March 08, 2015, 08:31:05 AM »
Anil,

Quote
Dear Sri bhai saheb, in my view, the ego of a Jnani or the ego of a Bhakta, even after they have attained Brahmajnana, cannot but be the Pure Ego, and not the impure ego which constitutes bondage and suffering. In one of the Verses from the GVK that I posted today( V. 359), Sri Muruganar has sung that if the impure jiva-ego dies away completely, the Pure Ego, the state of being undivided Self, will shine forth.

This is how the Master explains this in his inimitable fashion.The complete passage of the excerpt that i have given in the previous post is here:

The two kinds of ego
"I said to Keshab Sen that he would not be able to realize God without renouncing the ego. He said, 'Sir, in that case I should not be able to keep my organization together.' Thereupon I said to him: 'I am asking you to give up the "unripe ego", the "wicked ego". But there is no harm in the "ripe ego", the "child ego", the "servant ego", the "ego of Knowledge".'
"The worldly man's ego, the 'ignorant ego', the 'unripe ego', is like a thick stick. It divides, as it were, the water of the Ocean of Satchidananda. But the 'servant ego', the 'child ego', the 'ego of Knowledge', is like a line on the water. One clearly sees that there is only one expanse of water. The dividing line makes it appear that the water has two parts, but one
clearly sees that in reality there is only one expanse of water.
"Sankaracharya kept the 'ego of Knowledge' in order to teach people. God keeps in many people the 'ego of a jnani' or the 'ego of a bhakta' even after they have attained Brahmajnana. Hanuman, after realizing God in both His Personal and His Impersonal aspect, cherished toward God the attitude of a servant, a devotee. He said to Rama: 'O Rama, sometimes I think that You are the whole and I am a part of You. Sometimes I think that You are the Master and I am Your servant. And sometimes, Rama, when I contemplate the Absolute, I see that I am You and You are I.'

Again the master explains how the 'wicked ego' has to be overcome:

"Wicked ego" must be killed
MASTER: "It is on account of the ego that one is not able to see God. In front of the door of God's mansion lies the stump of ego. One cannot enter the mansion without jumping over the stump."
"There was once a man who had acquired the power to tame ghosts. One day, at his summons, a ghost appeared. The ghost said: 'now tell me what you want me to do. The moment you cannot give me any work I shall break your neck.' The man had many things to accomplish, and he had the ghost do them all, one by one. At last he could find nothing more for the ghost to do. 'Now', said the ghost, 'I am going to break your neck.' 'Wait a minute', said the man. 'I shall return presently.' He ran to his teacher and said: 'Revered sir, I am in great danger. This is my trouble.' And he told his teacher his trouble and asked, 'What shall I do now?' The teacher said: ' do this. Tell the ghost to straighten this kinky hair.' The ghost devoted itself day and night to straightening the hair. But how could it make a kinky hair straight? The hair remained kinky.

"Likewise, the ego seems to vanish this moment, but it reappears the next. Unless one renounces the ego, one does not receive the grace of God."
"Suppose there is a feast in a house and the master of the house puts a man in charge of the stores. As long as the man remains in the store-room, the master doesn't go there; but when of his own wills he renounces the store-room and goes away, then the master locks it and takes charge of it himself."

"A guardian is appointed only for a minor. A boy cannot safeguard his property; therefore the king assumes responsibility for him. God does not take over our responsibilities unless
we renounce our ego.
"

"Once Lakshmi and Narayana were seated in Vaikuntha, when Narayana suddenly stood up. Lakshmi had been stroking His feet. She said, 'Lord, where are You going?' Narayana
answered: 'One of My devotees is in great danger. I must save him.' With these words He went out. But He came back immediately. Lakshmi said, 'Lord, why have You returned so
soon?' Narayana smiled and said: The devotee was going along the road overwhelmed with love for Me. Some washermen were drying clothes on the grass, and the devotee walked
over the clothes. At this the washermen chased him and were going to beat him with their sticks. So I ran out to protect him.' 'But why have You come back?' asked Lakshmi.
Narayana laughedand said: 'I saw the devotee himself picking up a brick to throw at them.(All laugh.) So I came back.'

"I said to Keshab, 'You must renounce your ego.' Keshab replied, 'If I do, how can I keep my organization together?'
"I said to him: 'how slow you are to understand! I am not asking you to renounce the "ripe ego", the ego that makes a man feel he is a servant of God or His devotee. Give up the
"unripe ego", the ego that creates attachment to "woman and gold". The ego that makes a man feels he is God's servant. His child is the "ripe ego". It doesn't harm one.'"

TRAILOKYA: "It is very difficult to get rid of the ego. People only think they are free from it."

MASTER: "Gauri would not refer to himself as 'I' lest he should feel egotistic. He would say 'this' instead. I followed his example and would refer to myself as 'this' instead of 'I'. Instead of saying, 'I have eaten,' I would say, 'This has eaten.' Mathur noticed it and said one day: 'What is this, revered father? Why should you talk that way? Let them talk that way. They have their egotism. You are free from it; you don't have to talk like them.'

"I said to Keshab, 'Since the ego cannot be given up, let it remain as the servant, the servant of God.' Prahlada had two moods. Sometimes he would feel that he was God. In that mood he would say, 'Thou art verily I, and I am verily Thou.' But when he was conscious of his ego, he felt that God was the Master and he was His servant. After a man is firmly established in the ideal of 'I am He', he can live as God's servant. He may then think of himself as the servant of God.



I have always enjoyed and marvelled at the master's felicity of clarity and expression,explaining subtle truth in an absolutely simple manner that even a child can grasp-Here when referring to the 'ripe ego',he advises maintaining the 'attitude' of 'I am the servant' to the sadhaka;at the same time he also refers how this is natural to a Brahma jnani wherein the 'Ripe ego' is only like a line drawn on water-that there is in fact no 'individual' left in him.

For Sadhakas,the attitude can be maintained and God's Grace descending will spontaneously efface the ego.Thus in Truth,all these classifications of jnani and ajnani are only apparently so-Truth alone Exists : for the Bhakta ,God alone exists;for the jnani ,Self alone exists-Bhagavan ,paramatma and Parabrahman are different names for the Only Truth.

The classic example of this sort of 'ripe ego' is Sri Ramakrishna himself!How he listened to Pandit gauri and simply accepted that point of view and started saying 'This Has eaten' and again how he listened to mathur babu protesting that he need not adopt such unconventional ways and again did not in the least hesitate to say 'I' referring to himself.This is the childlike aspect of the master that is most endearing and at the sametime lets the cat out of the bag that he is a Brahma jnani as well!A Prince is indeed a Prince even if he plays the role of a pauper.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 08:35:33 AM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4300 on: March 08, 2015, 07:15:33 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, Sri Bhagwan has taught that a Jnani's ego is like a burnt rope, which though appears to retain the vestige of the form of the unburnt rope, but it is nonetheless not quite the same, for it cannot be used to tie something with. Or like a like line drawn on the surface of a water body, as you said.

In Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, its practiser is not supposed to nurture any 'bhava' , such as 'I am servant', or 'I am the Self', etc., and thus forestall the Enquiry.  As and when any such or other thought arises, one is not supposed to identify with it, instead one is supposed to reject, or transcend them and remain steadily poised in Self-attention.

Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi bahi saheb.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 07:25:48 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4301 on: March 08, 2015, 10:08:42 PM »
Anil,

Quote
In Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, its practiser is not supposed to nurture any 'bhava' , such as 'I am servant', or 'I am the Self', etc., and thus forestall the Enquiry. As and when any such or other thought arises, one is not supposed to identify with it, instead one is supposed to reject, or transcend them and remain steadily poised in Self-attention.

Yes,I am aware of this.

In the path of Bhakti,the very intensity of the Bhava of 'I am the servant' also leads to thought transcendence-The Attitude of 'I am the servant' does not mean just 'thinking' so.It means that 'I am nobody' and 'God,the master is all in all'-This is how the Bhava automatically leads to the awareness of the presence.

"I am the servant' means that I have no reason to complain ,I have nothing to call my own except God-all this is implied and this spontaneously shuts out all other thoughts,leading to self surrender and the Divine presence.

There is this interesting conversation between Vijaykrishna Goswami and Sri Ramakrishna in The Gospel where Vijay puts this very question :

The "wicked I"
Master:"The 'I' that makes one a worldly person and attaches one to 'woman and gold' is the 'wicked I'. The intervention of this ego creates the difference between jiva and Atman. Water appears to be divided into two parts if one puts a stick across it. But in reality there is only one water. It appears as two on account of the stick. This 'I' is the stick. Remove the
stick and there remains only one water as before.

"Now, what is this 'wicked I'? It is the ego that says: 'What? Don't they know me? I have so much money! Who is wealthier than I?' If a thief robs such a man of only ten rupees, first of all he wrings the money out of the thief, then he gives him a good beating. But the matter doesn't end there: the thief is handed over to the police and is eventually sent to jail. The 'wicked I' says: 'What? Doesn't the rogue know whom he has robbed? To steal my ten rupees! How dare he?' "

VIJAY: "If without destroying the 'I' a man cannot get rid of attachment to the world and consequently cannot experience samadhi, then it would be wise for him to follow the path of Brahmajnana to attain samadhi. If the 'I' persists in the path of devotion, then one should rather choose the path of knowledge."

The "servant I"
MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.

"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion is prescribed for this cycle.

"This is an easy path. You will attain God if you sing His name and glories and pray to Him with a longing heart. There is not the least doubt about it".

"Suppose you draw a line on the surface of water with a bamboo stick. The water appears to be divided into two parts; but the line doesn't remain for any length of time. The 'servant I'or the 'devotee I' or the 'child I' is only a line drawn with the ego and is not real".

The "ego of a devotee"
VIJAY (to the Master): "Sir, you ask us to renounce the 'wicked I'. Is there any harm in the 'servant I'?"

MASTER: "The 'servant I'-that is, the feeling, 'I am the servant of God, I am the devotee of God'-does not injure one. On the contrary, it helps one to realize God."

The Master says so sweetly and simply and emphatically-"Sweet things cause acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception".
In other words 'I am a servant of God' or 'I am a child of God' is unlike other thoughts and do not allow one to go astray.To the contrary,they invoke the Grace of God and leads to surrender.

In the Talks as well there is this interesting conversation:
Talk 55.
D.: Can advaita be realised by japa of holy names; say Rama, Krishna, etc.?
M.: Yes.
D.: Is it not a means of an inferior order?
M.: Have you been told to make japa or to discuss its order in the scheme of things?
Silence.

The Basic thing in any sadhana is the earnestness and Sraddha-If these are there,everything else becomes secondary.

In self-enquiry as well,it is the earnestness and sraddha that counts as it does in the path of Bhakti.In both approaches,the earnestness and sraddha implies the intense resolve to set aside the limitations of the ego and realizing that it is a nonentity.To the extent this resolve is intense and truthful,to that degree the Presence is felt palpably as awareness.So,truly there is no fundamental difference.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 10:10:45 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4302 on: March 09, 2015, 06:18:58 AM »
Anil/friends,

The Great Saint appar swamigal(also called Tiru nAvukku arasar-literally meaning the emperor of 'the Holy Tongue'-meaning one whose words are perennialy inspirational) in his tevAram delineates the path of self surrender in a beautiful and telling fashion:

முன்னம் அவனுடைய நாமங் கேட்டாள் 
   மூர்த்தி யவனிருக்கும் வண்ணங் கேட்டாள்
பின்னை அவனுடைய ஆரூர் கேட்டாள்
   பெயர்த்து மவனுக்கே பிச்சி யானாள்
அன்னையையும் அத்தனையும் அன்றே நீத்தாள்
   அகன்றாள் அகலிடத்தார் ஆசா ரத்தை
தன்னை மறந்தாள்தன் நாமங் கெட்டாள்
   தலைப்பட்டாள் நங்கை தலைவன் றாளே
. (Tirumarai 6,Chapter 25,Verse 7)

munnam avanuDaiya nAmam kETTAL
   mUrththi avanirukkum vaNNam kETTAL
pinnai avanuDaiya ArUr kETTAL
   peyarththum avanukkE picciyAnAL
annaiyaiyum aththanaiyum anRE nIttAL
   aganRAL agaliDaththAr AcAraththaith
thannai maRandhAL than nAmam keTTAL
   thalaippaTTAL nangai thalaivan thALE


Earlier she heard His name.
She heard about His being.
Later she heard of His ArUr (abode)
(Realizing) her isolation, she became mad of Him.
She gave up mother and father that day itself.
Left the manners of the world.
Forgot herself, forgot her name too !
The lady headed only to the Feet of the Lord !


This is what happened to Sri Bhagavan when he heard of 'Arunachalam' from that relative of his.Wonderingly,he asked that relative-'Where is it?' in .There was the 'Bhava'-that there is an immensity of supreme goodness and Bliss,very dear to oneself-and this was echoing in his heart even before he heard it from that relative.This 'Bhava' is unlike other thoughts-and infact serves to push out all other thoughts and itself too.This is what appar swamigal means when he says-'She gave up mother and father,Left the manners of the world,Forgot herself,forgot her Name too!'-Meaning that there is only perfect surrender or saranagathi(The Lady headed only to the feet of the Lord).

This is how a seemingly 'small beginning'(Earlier she heard His Name) gathers momentum and culminates in something that is 'life changing'.
 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 06:58:34 AM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4303 on: March 09, 2015, 08:05:54 AM »
Quote:
"This 'Bhava' is unlike other thoughts-and infact serves to push out all other thoughts and itself too.This is what appar swamigal means when he says-'She gave up mother and father,Left the manners of the world,Forgot herself,forgot her Name too!'-Meaning that there is only perfect surrender or saranagathi(The Lady headed only to the feet of the Lord).

This is how a seemingly 'small beginning'(Earlier she heard His Name) gathers momentum and culminates in something that is 'life changing'."




Dear Sri Ravi,

While sweetness of such love, devotion and surrender is always nectarine, I wish to say that when one starts from partial surrender and practices bhakti, such bhava is perfectly valid, and I am aware that many great Gurus have enjoined it. I am aware that as in Vichara where question 'who am I?' and Self-attention serves to keep all other thoughts at bay in the beginning and finally destroys all mental operations including itself, just as the stick in funeral pyre, likewise, when one starts from partial surrender with love and in faith, such bhava as 'I am servant or a das, etc.' may help to push out all other thoughts to be finally consumed itself in the end. But in Atma-vichara, one is seized with the spirit of enquiry, and is not supposed to nurture any bhava, rather is seized with divine fervour to know one's own reality, the reality of that which we call 'I'. It is due to Grace.

 

Quote:
"This is what happened to Sri Bhagavan when he heard of 'Arunachalam' from that relative of his.Wonderingly,he asked that relative-'Where is it?' in .There was the 'Bhava'-that there is an immensity of supreme goodness and Bliss,very dear to oneself-and this was echoing in his heart even before he heard it from that relative."



Dear Sri Ravi, while it is true that Sri Bhagwan was overwhelmed with awe when He heard the words 'From Arunachala' from His relative, I feel that it is not quite correct to assign any bhava to Sri Bhagwan's stammering out, "What! From Arunachala? Where is that?"  He Himself later explained that from the very age of innocence Sri Arunachala had shone in His mind as something of surpassing grandeur. Therefore, His sudden exclamation, in my view, has something to do with His past lives. It is well-known that Sri Bhagwan was a fully enlightened Sage just after one session of Self-enquiry that He conducted during His famous Death Experience. Sri Bhagwan is generally regarded as having completed His sadhana in His previous life, so He is unique!


Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi.
Pranam,
  Anil

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 08:34:31 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4304 on: March 09, 2015, 08:13:59 AM »
Q: No doubt the method taught by Bhagwan is direct. But it is so difficult. We do not know how to begin it. If we go on asking, 'Who am I?' like a japa or a mantra, it becomes dull. In other methods there is something preliminary and positive with which one can begin and then go step by step. But in Bhagwan's method, there is no such thing, and to seek the Self at once, though direct, is difficult.


Sri Bhagwan replied:
You yourself concede it is direct method.    IT  IS  THE  DIRECT  AND  EASY  METHOD.  When going after other things that are alien to us is easy, how can it be difficult for one to go to one's own Self? You talk of 'Where to begin? There is no beginning and no end. You are yourself in the beginning and the end. If you are here and the Self somewhere else, and you have to reach the Self, you may be told how to start, how to travel and then how to reach. Suppose you who are now in Ramanasramam ask, "I want to go to Ramanasramam. How shall I start and how to reach it?", what is one to say? A man's search for the Self is like that. He is always the Self and nothing else. You say 'Who am I?' becomes a japa. It is not meant that you should go on asking 'Who am I?', you are told to concentrate within yourself where the 'I'-thought, the root of all other thoughts, arises. As the Self is not outside but inside you, you are asked to dive within, instead of going without. What can be more easy than going to yourself? But the fact remains that to some this method will seem difficult and will not appeal. That is why so many different methods have been taught. Each of them will appeal to some as the best and easy. That is according to their pakva or fitness. But to some, nothing except the vichara or the enquiry will appeal. They will ask, 'You want me to know or to see this or that. But who is the knower, the seer?' Whatever other method may be chosen, there will always be a doer. That cannot be escaped. One must find out who the doer is. Till then, the sadhana cannot be ended. So eventually, all must come to find out 'Who am I?' You complain that there is nothing preliminary or positive to start with. You have the 'I' to start with. You know you exist always, whereas the body does not exist always for example in sleep. Sleep reveals that you exist even without a body. We identify the 'I' with a body, we regard the Self  as having a body, and as having limits, and hence all our trouble. All that we have to do is to give up identifying the Self with the body, with forms and limits, and then we shall know ourselves as the Self that we always are. 

Source: Be  As You Are               
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 08:20:57 AM by eranilkumarsinha »