Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756248 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4245 on: February 17, 2015, 04:32:12 PM »
anil,
Quote
Yes, I never limited the Guru to Name and Form alone. His Grace enabled me to realise that the Real Guru is the Self. Yes, I see and realise the same Guru-tattva in all great ones, such as Sri Shirdi Baba, Sant Jnaneshwar, Sri Ramamkrishna, Lord Budha, Christ and others. As I said before, I am cent percent certain that this became possible for me only due to His Grace and His Vichara

Wonderful anil bhai.you are indeed blessed as i have always said.

Namaskar.


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4246 on: February 17, 2015, 06:46:08 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,


You have bestowed upon me that label even before. I didn'd mind then, and I do not care now.

Thanks very much, dear friend, for conferring on me, if not any thing, at least a label, though my wish is to be bereft all labels whatsoever!  Sri Ravi bhai saheb has not done even that.
 
Pranam,
  Anil

Sri Anil ji, just to clarify that i have only referred to your views in the post and not "YOU"

Best wishes
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4247 on: February 18, 2015, 06:30:35 AM »
Friends,
We wre exploring the 'direct' path or the 'direct' approach.What is the 'Directness' of any path?For a moment we may set aside 'self-enquiry' and what Sri Bhagavan has said with regard to it and try and see whether any other teaching qualifies to be termed as  'Direct'.
If there is any approach that can dismantle concepts and reveal the ever present reality,we can readily term it as 'Direct'.This is the essence behind 'Neti' 'Neti' approach.It is not an analytical approach but ituitive as well.
I warmly recommend this wonderful exposition by swami Krishnananda of uddhalaka's teaching to his son Swetaketu in the Chandogya upanishad.Here is an excerpt:
"Do you know That, by knowing which, everything is known? Do you know That, by which the unheard becomes heard, the unthought becomes thought?" Yenasrutam srutam bhavati, amatam matam, avijnatam vijnatam iti: "Has your Guru, or the preceptor from whom you have studied the four Vedas, taught you these secrets by which things which are not heard of, are heard, things which cannot be thought of, are thought of, that which cannot be understood, is understood? There is something by knowing which everything can be known. Have you heard of this? Have your teachers imparted this knowledge to you?" Very strange indeed! The boy had never heard of such things-how can an unheard thing, be heard; an unthought thing, be thought; an ununderstood thing, be understood? This is not in the Vedas or the Shastras; nowhere is anything mentioned of it. Katham nu, bhagavah, sa adeso bhavatiti: The boy says: "What is this? I do not know. I have never been taught this thing." He is humbled a little bit. So, there is something he does not know. "If you have never heard of a thing, how can you hear of it? If you can never think of a thing, how can you think of it? And if it cannot be understood at all, how can it be understood?" "But there is a way," says the father. "There is a way by which you can execute this feat of knowing everything, even if it cannot be known normally. Supersensory things can be known and everything can be known by the knowledge of a single thing." The father puts this question to the boy, but the boy knows nothing about this. "How is it possible?" the boy queries the father. "What is the meaning of this question? How is it possible for one to know, in this manner?" "Well; I give you an example of how it is possible." Without going into the details of the subject, the father gives only an example, an analogy of how such a thing is possible.
"If you know what earth is made of, you also know at the same time what anything that is made of earth also is made of, because all the articles that are manufactured out of earth are constituted of earth essentially. So, I give you an example of how many things can be known by the knowledge of one thing. Pot, tumbler, plate, etc., and various articles of this kind manufactured out of clay are clay only, in reality. So, if you know what clay is, you know what a clay tumbler is, a clay plate is, a clay glass is, etc. Do you understand what I say? Yes! Because they are only shapes taken by that substance called clay. And, what you mean by an earthen pot is only a name that you have given to a shape taken by the earth."

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4248 on: February 18, 2015, 06:33:39 AM »
Chandogya upanishad continued...

Now, this earthen pot is a very strange thing, altogether. The earthen pot is a name that you have given to a shape taken by the earth. There is no such thing as a pot, really speaking. You touch a pot and tell me whether you are touching a pot or are touching clay. What are you touching? You cannot say what you are touching. You will say, 'Well; it is difficult for me to say if I am touching the pot or have touched the clay.' You are touching the clay and you say you are touching the pot. The pot is in your head; it is not outside. What is there is really the clay. Your conception, your thought is that the substance is clay only. The interference of space and time in the substance called earth is responsible for this peculiar shape that it has taken. So, the pot made of earth is only a name, a sound merely. You are only uttering some words indicating a shape taken by the earth which is its substance. So, what do you mean by the shape taken by the earth? What is shape? You cannot understand what shape also is. The shape also is earth itself. You are interfering with the substance called the earth by your notional interpretation of its connection with space and time. So, the earthen pot is nothing but a conceptual interpretation that you are introducing into the substance that is called clay. There is no such thing as pot; it does not exist. Yet, you have coined two words. On one side there is the word called clay, on the other side there is the word called pot. Now, you have got two names indicating one and the same thing. Now, why should you have two names if the substance is only one? Yatha, saumya, ekena mrt-pindena sarvam mrnmayam vijnatam syat vacarambhanam vikaro namadheyam, mrttikety eva satyam: You are under an illusion of perception. You are confounded in your notion of the substance. There is a mistake that you commit in your interpretation of reality when you say, 'There is a pot.' The pot does not exist; what exists there is only the clay. And what you call the pot is only a concept in your mind. So is the case with everything else in this world," says Uddalaka Aruneya to his son Svetaketu.

Those interested may read it here:
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/chhand/ch_2.html

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4249 on: February 18, 2015, 09:46:29 AM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Therefore, that label you judged was not for 'I', but  for I's  views.  Well, what can I do but to accept your verdict with love, for I have no wish whatsoever to argue with you, either for or against your label. Therefore, the best course is to remain silent over that.

Thanks very much, dear friend, for the after-thought judgment too.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:49:59 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4250 on: February 18, 2015, 10:48:45 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan has taught that there is nothing whatsoever as direct as the Self--always experienced without the aid of the senses.  So simple yet so much difficult to realize! What an irony that we are not able to realize our own awareness? Sri Bhagwan has taught that one's own awareness  alone is the direct knowledge, and this is the common experience of one and all.  No aid whatever is required to know one's own Self.  This is why  His silent Teaching is more direct than any verbal teaching could ever be, for those who were attuned to it.

We are not possessed of two identities--ego or lower self and the Self or the higher Self, that is, two selves.  There are not two 'I's in any one of us.  The ego self or 'I' has no being whatsoever.  There is one Self, one 'I', and that is Existence Who is conscious of His Existence.  We need to analyze 'ourselves'  directly.  We must end our long history of wrong identification by right understanding.   WE  MUST  FACE  OUR  'I' IN  TRUE  MANNER.  We must have correct and true picture of our Self, we have long identified ourselves with the body and the mind. It is high time to face our 'I' in the true manner and come to intellectual conviction, intuitive understanding and then  experiential veracity  that we are the One Self out of which the sense of the personal 'I' keep on arising again and againand into which it keeps on disappearing again and again!


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 10:52:40 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4251 on: February 19, 2015, 10:05:45 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
"if the 'i' or ego sense is unreal,then any path that this 'i' traces to get rid of itself is like a line on the water.No reality can be attributed to the path."



Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes, there is no doubt that the ego-sense is unreal. Therefore, if one knows this with certainty and strong conviction, such a one should remain still, that is, in Self-abidance, and ensure that the residual, entrenched predispositions are burnt by the Light of the Self, and is established  and steadily poised in Self-awareness. Yes, for such a one there is no path, no Guru, no God, only the Self Is. That is all that can be predicated then in that case. But fact remains that we are talking like that remaining deeply engrossed in the relative, unreal world. We conveniently forget that we have to get going from the ignorance to Knowledge, from darkness to Light, form non-Self to the Self, and only to the Self, and nowhere else. Though ignorance does not exist at all, though it has no being whatsoever, there has to be some means for everyone of us to awaken us from the state of ignorance to the State of Knowledge, to the State of the Self. That means or the method, within the state of the relativity is called path. Remaining ignorant and talking like the Realised will not do, at best it is mere pretension.


Yes, there is no doubt that our thinking that we have to make an effort to get rid of this dream of the waking state and our making efforts to attain or realize awakening are ALL  PARTS  OF  THE  DREAM.  When only we attain Jnana we can see there was neither the dream during sleep, nor the waking state,  BUT  ONLY  'OURSELVES?'  AND  OUR  REAL  STATE.

Dear Sri Ravi, it is true that we awaken from the dream during sleep, of our own accord, we do not have to put in effort to awaken from that sleep. However, we will do well if we meditate over the following Words of Grace:


Sri Bhagwan: In a dream, you have no inkling that it is dream and so you don't have the duty of trying to get out of it by our effort. But in this life you have some intuition, by your sleep experience, by reading and hearing that this life is something like a dream, and hence the duty is cast on you to make an effort and get out of it. However, who wants you to realize the Self, if you don't want it? If you prefer to be in the dream, stay as you are.


Therefore, discussion that there is no effort, no path is at best mere pretension, for duty is cast on us to make an effort and get out of the on-going waking dream. There is no short-cut. Only short-cut available is to pay attention only and only onto 'ourselves'.  IF  WE  SEEK 'I',  REAL  SELF  OR  REAL  'I'  WILL BE  REVEALED.

Thanks very much, dear sir.
Pranam,
  Anil   

       

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 10:11:37 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4252 on: February 19, 2015, 10:24:44 AM »
Sri Bhagwan:

Direct perception is ever-present Experience. God Himself is known as directly perceived. It does not mean that He appears before the devotee with four arms, etc. Unless the Realization be eternal it cannot  serve any useful purpose. Can the appearance with four hands be eternal realization? It is phenomenal and illusory. There must be a seer. The seer alone is real and eternal. Let God appear as the light of a million suns: Is it pratyaksha? To see it, the eyes, the mind, etc. are necessary. It is indirect knowledge, whereas the seer is direct experience. The seer alone is pratyaksha. All other perceptions are only secondary knowledge. The present super-imposition of the body as 'I' is so deep rooted, that the vision before the eyes is considered pratyaksha but  NOT  THE  SEER  HIMSELF.   


Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4253 on: February 19, 2015, 10:44:53 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi, yes, the manner and the way in which we put in effort to realize the True Swarupa is, in my view, the Path.

Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4254 on: February 20, 2015, 07:51:28 AM »
Sri Bhagwan : The one Unbroken Whole becomes aware of itself as 'I'. This is its original name. All other names, e.g., Om, are later growths. Liberation is only to remain aware of the Self. The mahavakya 'I am Brahman' is its authority. Though the 'I' is always experienced, yet one's attention has to be drawn to it. Only then does knowledge dawn.
Talk--92


Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote:
"Elsewhere in The Gospel ,the master says:"Just try to find out who this 'I' is. While you are searching for 'I', 'He' comes out.""



Ji. Yes. This is clearly the Self-enquiry, and by "He comes out", "the Self  or the Real 'I' is revealed"  is meant.  I have read the Gospel, though not systematically, and am aware that Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, sometimes, to certain devotees, taught the direct path of Enquiry.

 
Quote:
"This is to say that Brahman cannot be conceived by this limited consciousness that we call 'I',even as an unlimted 'I'.Hence the masters use other words like 'He' or 'That' for Truth or Sat."




Dear Sri Ravi bhai saheb, Sri Bhagwan has taught that in the centre of the heart-cave the pure Brahman alone shines directly in the form of the Self, as 'I-I'. He taught that everyone and everything is  manifestation of the Self. Thus, for me and countless others, the purpose of Sri Bhagwan's Advent is to show how everyone is this 'TRUTH' and to give an infallible direction to realise it.

This is why Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Reality is not a third person 'He', nor is it an impersonal 'It' or 'That', but the Reality or Brahman is the Eternal Fullness of Being, 'I-I', in the heart-cave of all. It is the Real Self or the Real 'I', the Original Name of God!  Hence Sri Bhagwan has taught that if one resorts uninterruptedly to remembrance of one's real nature (swarupa smarna), limited consciousness takes to flight and the Self or the Real 'I' is revealed.


Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi.
Pranam,
  Anil 


« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 08:07:31 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4255 on: February 20, 2015, 09:09:52 AM »
Sri Ravi:
We wre exploring the 'direct' path or the 'direct' approach.What is the 'Directness' of any path?For a moment we may set aside 'self-enquiry' and what Sri Bhagavan has said with regard to it and try and see whether any other teaching qualifies to be termed as  'Direct'.

By God's Grace every path can be direct and final. If that's not so then only Ramana's devotees and few others have had the possibility for liberation. This seems to me even more fanatical or at least in the same category as  the Islamic fundamentalism. Sri Ramakrishna has said that bhakti is best and natural way for Kali yuga, Sri Ramana taught that self-inquiry is the 'direct' path, for others it is Raja Yoga etc. So do these sages have different 'level' of Jnana? It cannot be so. Their teachings are according to what the Lord has driven them to speak. Their teachings are just different approach to the Goal according to the taste of the sadhaka.
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eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4256 on: February 20, 2015, 04:24:30 PM »
Sri Sadhu Om:

In a quiet mind many truths about past and future events may be known, but this is not a siddhi (an attainment of a desired supernatural power) because it happens only in the absence of any volition or desire for such an experience. It is likewise only in a calm and quiet mind that Bhagwan's silent teachings can be received. They are not received in words but only as an inner clarity of understanding, and they give us such strong conviction that no one can ever shake our trust in what we discover through them. However much we may struggle to do so, we cannot find words to express the clarity we discover through the power of His silence.

Source: Mountain Path   


Dear Devotees,

No power on earth can shake our trust! This is certain. I am not against anything, not even against the atheists. I simply do not care. I never professed to be a teacher, for I am not one. I joined this forum as part of my sadhana, as a devotee who didn't know what to do after receiving inner clarity of understanding and strong conviction due to His Grace. What have I done to receive such abuses? Please tell me. I  post either Sri Bhagwan's Words of Grace or their interpretation by His great devotees under this topic. Yes, sometimes, I have also posted my own understanding and experiences of the great Teaching, but only after I see that they stand corroborated by other devotees. I do not understand why those who are not able to consume what is written here should visit this topic and make malicious comments, if they have not their own axe to grind. I didn't ask for their learned comments. However, well, truly speaking I do not care, for I knew that there would always be some who would not like me to continue writing the way I am doing. I understand their predicament, and I also understand that all this is due to the fact that Sri Bhagwan taught that the Atma-vichara was the direct path, others are not, and I found out and understood with inner clarity why it is so. I do not know other paths, I have not practiced them, and therefore hardly ever have I commented upon them. Even having reached the Lotus Feet, if anyone of us do not have Faith and do not practice His Teaching, let them practice what they have faith  in--bhakti, yoga, mantra, japa, or whatever. Who stops? I never had the good eyes to see what others are doing, nor have I ever been concerned. But kindly do not seek to obstruct me in my sadhana. If you do not like, do not read what I write, but for God's sake, do not pretend.
I will not allow detractors to get away, for I would continue writing whenever I am prompted from within to do so.  I cannot be cowed down by abuses. I shall remain blissfully unconcerned.             

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     

« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 04:27:34 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4257 on: February 21, 2015, 09:30:06 AM »
Dear Devotees,

I always knew that though this forum is dedicated to the dissemination of the Life and Teaching of Bhagwan Sri Ramana, there would always be some in an open forum like this who will not relish someone's one-pointed focus on the Self under this topic.  I knew that some time or later my coming again and again, veering round and round, going in and out, turning over and below, moving up and down, swerving and detouring for a while, only to restore the focus,  TO  THE  SELF,  would prick those who either enter this forum to pass time or have some other agenda to follow.  But at the same time I am also aware that it is never proper and right attitude on the part of a sincere devotee to engage in acrimonious exchange in a language, which conceited and highly egoistic persons are prone to employ.

Now, dear devotees, please tell me, if the aim and cherished purpose of this topic is to intensely focus on the Self and only on the Self, POINTEDLY, and direct means to Self-realisation, what else should I talk about here, and why? It is only natural that if the one-pointed focus is on the Self, Self-attention and Self-realisation, IF  THERE  IS  ONE-POINTED  FOCUS  AND  FIRM  DETERMINATION  TO  KNOW  REALLY  WHO  ONE  IS,   what  such  a  one  ought to talk, discuss, dwell, contemplate and meditate on  but  GRACE, SELF-ENQUIRY  AND  SURRENDER! By what standard is it wrong? Yes, I cannot talk about devotion and love for some remote God with four arms, but only about real love for our own Fullness of Being alone who is the Self.  Yet, I never said that other spiritual practices have no place under the firmament and are not time-proven valid practices.  However, if some intolerant persons (personalities), in guise of devotees or posing as seekers of truth, are not able to tolerate, react egoistically and maliciously, and seek to intently spoil the wonderful spirit of satsanga in this forum, what can I do but to remain silent. Last but not the least: since we all are only Sri Arunachala Ramana's children, here and elsewhere, there is nothing whatsoever to worry about!

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 09:33:08 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4258 on: February 21, 2015, 03:47:46 PM »
Malicious? People who does not share your vision are malicious? And you call them/us egoistic? I did not expect this from you, Sri Anil. To call malicious Sri Nagaraj who has always trying to help people here according to their mental state or Sri Ravi who was only trying to argue you that all paths lead to the Goal or me for supporting this view, this is more egoistic in my view. Do not think for are second that following Ramana or practicing Self-inquiry are making you something more than others or more authorative! Sri Ramana has respected all views and people. He respected even animals. It was sad for me reading things as "I never had the good eyes to see what others are doing, nor have I ever been concerned. But kindly do not seek to obstruct me in my sadhana." If that is so then what are you doing here? If you are here just for making 'personal diary' is that not egoistic too? Even if it is so then why don't you write it in some diary on your own computer? If you really do not care and you are not concerned about other people. And who is trying to obstruct your sadhana? We were just trying to say that there are other 'effective' paths. Is your position less 'malicious' saying "Sorry, only Self-inquiry is the direct path" meaning 'supreme'. Does that not obstruct the sadhana of others who are practicing other paths and are reading your posts? You are trying to convince us that we are obstructing your path because we are not supporting that it is the ONLY 'direct' (meaning also supreme) path? This is ridiculous because we do not reject Self-inquiry, we just say that there are other methods as effective as it! This is more selfish! Not to mention that you alone have said "I do not know other paths, I have not practiced them".

"I shall remain blissfully unconcerned." you said. If that is so then where is the compulsion to answer from? When someone is not concerned he remains silent and he does not care. Why you answer then and even call people malicious or egoistic or intolerant? Where is your tolerance?

Finally what I want to say is that your ego is not smaller than that of the others, even more. Your ego now is much more fatter than before. I am even shocked that this is you - aggressive, judging (not just sharing opinion as before), with 'self-sufficient attitude'. After what I have read today your words have no power for me anymore. And yes, I know, you don't care, because you are "blissfully unconcerned".

And I hope one day you will realize that these words of mine are not malicious! Although I admit I am irritated:
1. because of offending some of the people who have helped me here the most (and not only me)
2. because of underestimating the choice of the other people trying to convince them (subtly) that they have made the wrong choice (although you admit that you are not concerned about them and you don't know what other methods are).
3. because the arrogant claim of yours that people who do not share your opinion are "in guise of devotees or posing as seekers of truth". You sound like a Muslim who tries to convince the others that only Islam is the truth and others will be punished in hell (in your case - will die disgracefully without realization because they have not practiced Self-inquiry).

I hope that you are blissfully unconcerned even now and you do not answer me to this post.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4259 on: February 21, 2015, 05:05:24 PM »
Anilbhai,

Quote
since we all are only Sri Arunachala Ramana's children, here and elsewhere, there is nothing whatsoever to worry about!

Please continue your writing here as before.

Namaskar