Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759093 times)

Pythagoras

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4140 on: January 13, 2015, 11:25:46 PM »
pythagoras,

Quote
my main itch is that from whatever you said, I HAVE NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER. In other words, life is autopilot, it just happens on its own without our effort

Do you wish to have control?

 
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Therefore no free-will, no effort because everything has been predestined. You have no control over what's to happen. Everything will happen accordance to God as it has always happened

If you are convinced about this, and that you have no choice to exercise,why not just leave it to God and be at peace and inner rest?Where does the 'itch' step in?

Namaskar

Ravi,

You seem not to understand either. All I want is the clarification: IF ALL IS THE WILL OF GOD. HOW CAN YOU SAY I HAVE EFFORT? I HAVE NO CHOICE. I JUST WANT A CONFIRMATION OR IF NOT WHY.

THE INDIVIDUAL AS THEY SAY HAVE FREE WILL, BUT UNTIL HE REALIZE HE DOESN'T HAVE FREE WILL. HE IS STILL AN INDIVIDUAL AND STILL HAS TO WORK HIS WAY AND DO SELF-INQUIRY. BUT THT IS NEITHER HIS EFFORT OR WILL. ALL IS IN THE HANDS OF GOD. SO HOW CAN YOU SAY "I MUST HAVE EFFORT. EFFORT IS NECESSARY."

YOU SAY YES THAT IT IS THE WILL OF GOD. LET HIM TAKE CARE OF IT. OKAY NO PROBLEM. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, IF I AM GOING TO SURRENDER. HOW CAN YOU SAY THERE IS NO FREE WILL YET THERE NEEDS TO BE EFFORT? YOU ARE TAKING FROM THE STAND POINT OF BOTH THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE SELF.

We have been going on about this for a week and none of you guys have an answer or direct response to my questions but rather sidestep every question with some thing else.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 11:36:22 PM by Pythagoras »

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4141 on: January 14, 2015, 01:14:11 AM »
Dear Pythagoras,

The real Self in you, the Atman, the real Me in you is, as a matter of fact, the master of whole universe and it means it is all powerful. It is unlimited. It alone has the True Freewill and none else.

The unreal Self, which is termed individual is really non existent. There is no individual Self at all. So there is no chance of Freewill for the so called Individual, and there is no chance of destiny for the so called individual. It is all limitation.

There is no Individual at all. There is only the Universal.

Now read further carefully.

How can the Self, the Atman, the true Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature?You have confined that (Your Real Self, nature) in the prison, the prison of the Individual, which is all limitedness, which does not exist at all.

How this confinement has taken place?

Vedanta says, it has not taken place at all! That it appears to have taken place is what is called ignorance or avidya, says Vedanta.

Now,

How can the Self, the Atman, the true Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature? Which is all unlimitedness, all powerful, the master of the whole universe? It is the mater of its own will, it is the universal power of creation and destruction of destiny.

Ignorance which makes you attribute to the Individual the glory of Self, the Atman and makes you, on the contrary, attribute to the Real Self, the misery of the Individual, which is unlimited. it is all limitation. Remove this ignorance and you will see the True Light.

From this light, it is in the Real Self alone that all powers exist, very clearly, and He alone is the Master of all Free will and He alone is the Super powerful.

Even for the so called Individual, that really does not exist, but which as arisen out of ignorance, it is the Real Self, the Atman, that confers the knowledge of the Truth.

The Lord says in Bhagavatam:

By My blessing you shall have that knowledge of My truth what I am inherently, My manifestations, forms, attributes and activities are.

அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கி
Avan Arulale Avan Thaal Vanangi: It is by His grace the Individual worships Him. (Sivapuranam)

Therefore there rests not an iota of Free will in the hands of the Individual!

The individual is Maya, illusion, mirage. it is unreal, it is inert, non existent. Infact there is no Individual at all. There is only the Real Self, the Atman, the all powerful, the all glorious, the unlimited.

again to repeat:

But why is it that the limited, the Unreal, though does not exist appear to exist and feels it has Freewill, and all powers? It is because, The Atman, the True Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature? You have confined (or people confine) it to something that is Unreal, limited, the Individual. and The Ignorance - the individual begins to feel, it has the power of Freewill, and it has all the other powers, where as it is truly only the Real Self, the Atman, which is the Real. All problems is only due to confinement of the Unlimited as limited. The Universal Self as the Individual self. the Real as the Unreal.

The energy of the true Atman, the Real Self wants you to realize the state where you are perfectly free, where you have no equal, where is is no other, where there is no Individual, where there is no limitation at all. So when you talk of Freewill, it is only the true Atman that has all the powers of the universe.

The sinfulness of our the freewill lies is making the mistake of attributing the power of freewill (and all other powers), to the individual and the worthlessness of the individual to the Real Self, the Atman. It is this mistake, the Vedanta aims to remove. By ignorance, the unchangeable nature, the Supreme nature of the True Self is ascribed to the circumstances of the individual. That is the cause of all misery.

It is like this that, you seem to see an anomaly, or a paradox if we may say, that you have observed in your reflection!

Similarly in you is everything, but by the misplacement of things God is put down below and the body is placed above it, and the highest heaven is turned into the direct hell. Place them in the right order and you will see that even this dire and abominable phenomenon of sins speaks of your godliness, of your purity. Get the right vision and you are the greatest God. (SRT)

So it is only like this that it appears that,

though you have no free will (as the individual),
you still have freewill (because you are really the Atman)

though you have no destiny (as the Atman)
you still seem to have a predestiny/destiny
(as the individual subject to various limitations)

See Gita:

nAsato vidyate bhAvo nAbhAvo vidyate sataH |
ubhayorapi driShToantastvanayostattvadarSibhiH || 2-16 ||

That which really is, cannot go out of existence, just as that which is non-existent cannot come into being.
The end of this opposition of 'is' and 'is not' has been perceived by the seers of essential truths.

That which seems subject to change alone is capable of attaining destinies or predestiny and this is the nature of the Unreal - the Individual. and that which is ever changeless, has no destiny has no limitation - the Atman.

Hope this is clear.

--
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 01:56:05 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4142 on: January 14, 2015, 04:22:25 AM »
Pythagoras,
Quote
We have been going on about this for a week and none of you guys have an answer or direct response to my questions but rather sidestep every question with some thing else.

I have already said unambiguously :

Quote
As long as we feel that we are the doer,we cannot accept preordainment;if we get rid of doership,then whatever happens,happens by the will of God and so is preordained

Did you get that?

You have to help yourself.I can only hold up a mirror to help you see where you are.
There are only these possibilities:
1.I can help myself.
2.God helps me to help myself.
3.God helps me and all is well.
4.There is none in need of help.

You need to see where you are and not bring in that load of beliefs based on what you have read-all this springs from the fact that you seem to be taking the premise -Everything is predetermined and there is no free-will -without understanding what it means.You say that you are an automaton.You need to examine this premise critically and not take it for granted.

You say:
Quote
THE INDIVIDUAL AS THEY SAY HAVE FREE WILL, BUT UNTIL HE REALIZE HE DOESN'T HAVE FREE WILL.
No,it is the other way around.The individual is not an automaton,because he has the Buddhi(the determinative faculty)to evaluate his actions and do course correction.He has this capacity to refine his thoughts and actions.He has this capacity to standback from his thoughts and not be pushed by them into action.He can and does exercise this choice.He can if he so trains his mind gain control over the subconscious as well as the whole of his being.
Man's mind can be his enemy or his friend,depending on whether he uses this Buddhi.This is what distinguishes a human from an animal.
If you think you are bound and helpless,helpless you will be.If you think that Freedom is your very nature and that by striving for it you can reclaim it,you will do that and be free.

Choice is there-to choose to continue to wallow in bondage or to be free.To choose the later,you need to have strong conviction that it is your very nature and that you can exercise it.

If one is hungry,he will not ask what and how to eat.He will find something to eat.If one is not hungry,he will just keep browsing the menu card and discuss the various dishes ,how they are prepared,etc.

All this talk of whether ego is unreal or Self alone is ,etc,etc are just like browsing the menu card.If you are not hungry ,better to go out and do some work until that makes you hungry.then you will find something to eat and be done with that.

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 06:48:53 AM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4143 on: January 14, 2015, 04:36:23 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj Ji:
"though you have no free will (as the individual),
you still have freewill (because you are really the Atman)

though you have no destiny (as the Atman)
you still seem to have a predestiny/destiny
(as the individual subject to various limitations)"


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Thanks very much, dear friend Sri Nagaraj Ji, for a wonderful post. It struck a deep chord, and I experienced resonance. Thanks again, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4144 on: January 14, 2015, 04:40:34 PM »
Quote from Sri Pythagoras:
"We have been going on about this for a week and none of you guys have an answer or direct response to my questions but rather sidestep every question with some thing else."


Dear Sri Pythagoras,

This is not quite true. I feel that all respondents have understood your questions rather well, and responded adequately and admirably so that some of your nagging doubts get cleared. You say we sidestep every question. On the contrary, I feel that all respondents, including me, have veered round your question only, and still doing only that. Particularly, in the light of the fact that you practice Self-enquiry, I wonder why you are not able to grasp and understand Sri Bhagwan's simple but profound Teaching on individuality, world, body, mind, misery, pleasures, free-will, destiny, etc.

My question to you:
Right now, here and now, who do you think you really are--Self or the ego-self or both? I am not seeking an intellectual answer. Kindly point out what is your actual experience of the practice of the Atma-vichara?  How do you do the sadhana of the Self-enquiry. Do you contact Awareness and abide as the Awareness, during practice and at other times? And last but not the least: What does Self-attention mean to you? I write this beacuse I feel that if one does Enquiry in the right manner, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, one goes on transcending these doubts as one advances.
Dear friend, Sri Pythagoras, I shall not respond to your question on free-will and destiny anymore, for in my view, these are worthless questions as far as sadhana of the Atma-vichara, as taught by Sri Bhagwan is concerned. And these questions, except for some time in the beginning, never really assailed me. However, if you respond to my questions as above, I shall certainly respond appropriately.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil   
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 04:45:16 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4145 on: January 14, 2015, 05:20:49 PM »
Pythagoras,

Here is an excerpt from Talks with Ramana Maharshi which may be of use to you:

D.: Has man any Free-Will or is everything in his life predestined and preordained?
M.: Free-Will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long there is Free-Will. All the sastras are based on
this fact and they advise directing the Free-Will in the right channel
. Find out to whom Free-Will or Destiny matters. Abide in it. Then these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom do these questions arise? Find out and be at peace.

Talk 426,12th June, 1937,Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi


atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4146 on: January 14, 2015, 06:49:35 PM »
Quote
You seem not to understand either. All I want is the clarification: IF ALL IS THE WILL OF GOD. HOW CAN YOU SAY I HAVE EFFORT? I HAVE NO CHOICE. I JUST WANT A CONFIRMATION OR IF NOT WHY.


Yes "All is the will of God ".
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4147 on: January 17, 2015, 11:50:09 AM »
Sri Bhagwan:

"When free from the thoughts, you are the infinite intelligence, the Self."

"ALL  THAT  IS  REQUIRED  TO  REALISE  THE  SELF  IS  'TO  BE  STILL'."




Dear  Devotees,

Once while Sri Bhagwan was discoursing on the stillness of mind, a cultured lady visitor asked, "What should be done to remain free from thoughts as advised by you? Is it only the enquiry of 'Who am I?'"
Sri Bhagwan is said to have replied thus:

Sri Bhagwan: Only to remain still. Do it and see.
The Lady Visitor: It is impossible.
Sri Bhagwan: Exactly. For the same reason the enquiry 'Who am I?' is advised.



Dear devotees, Sri  Bhagwan often quoted the great Biblical Mahavakya "Be still and know that I am God".  So, stillness of the mind leads virtually to the extinction of the mind which is necessary for Self-realisation. By extinction of the mind here is only meant the extinction of the mind as we understand it, that is, mind which is bundle of thoughts, and not the thought-free pure mind which is verily Chit or Absolute Consciousness, for Sri Bhagwan has taught that Self is realised by the 'mruta manas', that is, mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward.
Dear devotees, we all are aware that Sri Bhagwan's Core Teaching is "Summa Iru, or Be Still", which is not within the realm of the mind( which is impure bundle of thoughts), but it is not easy to practice Stillness of the mind from the very beginning, as we saw in the case of the lady visitor above. One cannot practice this Stillness which is the Silence of the Self so long as mind is not attenuated to some extent by partial eradication of predispositions resulting progressively in the lesser number of distracting thoughts arising.


THIS  IS  WHY,  dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan has taught, as we saw in the case of the lady visitor above, that MENTAL  ARTICULATION of 'Who am I?' is necessary in the initial stages of the Enquiry. Therefore, initially this mental articulation is necessary to reject distracting thoughts and for TRAINING  THE  MIND  TO  DIVE  INTO  THE  HEART. This, in my view, is the beginning of the exposure of the mind to the Light of the Consciousness, which gradually leads to the attenuation of the mind and eradication of vasanas or predispositions.

Dear devotees, this is how the Stillness of the mind is achieved. How? By long enough practice of thus attending to the Unbroken Self, one easily forgets the not-Self, and then it cannot be really hard to remain still without thinking or grazing thoughts. Therefore, Stillness of the mind is thus obtained when the mind is finally engaged in attending to the Self (oneself) without any mental articulation, such as, Enquiry 'Who am I?', and without thinking whatsoever.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 06:02:37 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4148 on: January 17, 2015, 02:45:22 PM »
Sri Sadhu Om:

One of the many new ideas that Bhagwan has given us is that the real guru is a guru only in the view of the disciple. Though others may claim to be gurus, among Bhagwan and His real disciples you will find no one saying, 'I am the guru'. Bhagwan always used to praise guru as God Himself, but when asked who is guru, He pointed to Arunachala. He never accepted worship for His own form, but instead always encouraged people to direct their devotion towards Arunachala. When people praised Him as the Sadguru, He asked, "But who brought Me here? It was Arunachala."
Likewise His disciples will always point only to Him as the Guru, and not to themselves. Not only will they say that they are not the guru, but they will not even have the slightest feeling that they are the guru--that is the sign of a true disciple. They will not allow any 'I' to rise as an obstacle between any aspirant and Bhagwan.

Source: Mountain Path   
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 02:48:28 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4149 on: January 18, 2015, 05:24:30 AM »
2nd February, 1935 Talk 23.
Mr. Evans-Wentz continued another day: ?May one have more than one spiritual master??
M.: Who is a Master? He is the Self after all. According to the stages of the development of the mind the Self manifests as the Master externally. The famous ancient saint Avadhuta said that he had more than 24 Masters. The Master is one from whom one learns anything. The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of Avadhuta. God, Guru and the Self are identical.
A spiritual-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the man recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace of the Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus he finds that the Self is the Master.

Talk 41
D.: Are jivanmuktas (living liberated souls) of different kinds?
M.: What does it matter if they differ externally? There is no difference in their wisdom (jnana).
D.: When loyal to one Master can you respect others?
M.: Guru is only one. He is not physical. So long as there is weakness the support of strength is needed.

Talk 198
D.: What is Guru?s Grace? How does it work?
M.: Guru is the Self.
D.: How does it lead to realisation?
M.: Isvaro gururatmeti ... (God is the same as Guru and Self ...). A person begins with dissatisfaction. Not content with the world he seeks satisfaction of desires by prayers to God; his mind is purified; he longs to know God more than to satisfy his carnal desires. Then God?s Grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee; teaches him the Truth; purifies the mind by his teachings and contact; the mind gains strength, is able to turn inward; with meditation it is purified yet further, and eventually remains still without the least ripple. That stillness is the Self. The Guru is both exterior and interior. From the exterior he gives a push to the mind to turn inward; from the interior he pulls the mind towards the Self and helps the mind to achieve quietness. That is Grace. Hence there is no difference between God, Guru and Self.

Talk 271.
Dr. Syed: How is Grace to be obtained?
M.: Similar to obtaining the Self.
D.: Practically, how is it to be for us?
M.: By self-surrender.
D.: Grace was said to be the Self. Should I then surrender to my own Self?
M.: Yes. To the one from whom Grace is sought. God, Guru and Self are only different forms of the same.
D.: Please explain, so that I may understand.
M.: So long as you think you are the individual you believe in God. On worshiping God, God appears to you as Guru. On serving Guru He manifests as the Self. This is the rationale.

Talk 282
D.: It is said that the Guru can make his disciple realise the Self by transmitting some of his own power to him? Is it true?
M.: Yes. The Guru does not bring about Self-Realisation. He simply removes the obstacles to it. The Self is always realised.
D.: Is there absolute necessity of a Guru for Self-Realisation?
M.: So long as you seek Self-Realisation the Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. Take Guru to be the Real Self and your self as the individual self. The disappearance of this sense of duality is removal of ignorance. So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary. Because you identify yourself with the body you think the Guru, too, to be some body. You are not the body, nor is the Guru. You are the Self and so is the Guru. This knowledge is gained by what you call Self-Realisation.
D.: How can one know whether a particular individual is competent to be a Guru?
M.: By the peace of mind found in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel for him.

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4150 on: January 18, 2015, 10:05:58 AM »
Sri Bhagwan:
"So long as you seek Self-Realisation the Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. Take Guru to be the Real Self and your self as the individual self. The disappearance of this sense of duality is removal of ignorance. So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary."


Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji, yes, these immortal Words of Grace have been like nectar to me. How true! God, Guru and Self are One! So, my Guru is verily my real Self, and the ego-self masquerading as the Self is an impostor who must completely surrender to the Guru, the Self.

Dear Sri Ravi bhai Saheb, this understanding dawned on me spontaneously when His Grace enabled me to be aware of the Presence, the Guru-tattva, in my heart, that is, at the Core of the feeling of my existence.

Thanks very much, dear bhai Saheb.
Pranam,
  Anil 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 10:07:33 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4151 on: January 18, 2015, 02:41:09 PM »
Sri Bhagwan: Devotion consists in leading a life of absolute purity in thought, word and deed--considering oneself as merely a servant of the Lord and acting always with that faith and devotion which has no desire to enjoy the fruits of one's labours. Such a devotee finally comes to realise--not as a matter of ratiocination, but by direct and indubitable experience and by submergence in the Divine--the truth that all his acts are really the acts of the Supreme Ordainer. He does not feel as having any initiative in the acts he does or even an independent being separate from that of the Lord. He is entirely free from the sense of 'I' (ahamkara) and 'mine' (mamakara)--no matter what his body may appear to do or what he may appear to possess. Thus he shines in the resplendent glory of selfless existence.



Dear Devotees,

There is no doubt whatever that liberation consists in the utter annihilation of the ego (ahamkara) or the destruction of the entire facade of 'my' and 'mine', by any possible means whatsoever. One (doing sadhana of the Atma-vichara) through Love realises that the Lord is none other than the Self and merges in the Self, another pursuing Devotion whose Love for the Lord is continuous and unbroken, still merges finally in the Self though he may consider Him to be apart.

It is not correct to say either that one path is easier than the other, for it depends on the predilection of the sadhaka. I have understood that some devotees may not have been made to follow Vichara Marga, some may not be ready yet, and yet some of us will follow only Vichara Marga and enquire, "What is this? Who is this who is not tired of chanting I do, I work, I read, I write, I, I, I,......? What is this 'I', Who am I?, etc.?

However, dear devotees, one thing is clear. Sri Bhagwan has taught that DHYANA   MUST  PRECEDE   REALISATION, whatever the path, that is, whether one practices DHYANA  on God or on the Self, for the result is the same. But Sri Bhagwan has also taught that one cannot, by any means, escape the Self. It is impossible also to see God in all without seeing Him in oneself.


Sri Bhagwan: If all is God, are you not included in that all? Being God yourself, is it a wonder that all is God? This is the method advised in Srimad Bhagawata, and elsewhere by others.

Dear devotees, Bhakti leads to complete surrender. However, Sri Bhagwan has taught that surrender can take effect only when it is done with knowledge as to what indeed real surrender means.
Sri Bhagwan: SUCH  KNOWLEDGE  COMES  AFTER  ENQUIRY  AND  REFLECTION  AND  ENDS  INVARIABLY  IN  SELF-SURRENDER.

Yes, the Self is inescapable, for only the Self Is.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil     
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 04:33:11 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4152 on: January 23, 2015, 05:24:06 PM »
Excerpts from the annotation to Truth Revealed  by 'Who', as expounded to him by Sri Bhagwan:

1. Vishnu to Prahalada: If you desire the deathless state, your darshan (sight) of me with your gross physical eye is not sufficient. You must have the sight of Vishnu inside you.

2. Of all the forms, that of the Jnana Guru is the holiest. That Jnana Guru must be regarded as the Supreme Being residing in the Heart. He who regards the Guru as distinct from the Supreme Self will never attain Self-realisation.



Dear devotees,

Bhakti must lead to Anannya Bhakti, that is, bhakti to God external to oneself (annya bhakti) must culminate in Anannya Bhakti or devotion to God not external to oneself.
In Bhakti Path, in my view, worship of the chosen Deity, constant remembrance, appropriate japa, dhyana, etc., are the successive steps that lead to Annanya Bhakti. This is worshipping the Lord as the Inner Self, which culminates in complete self-surrender. 
However, Sri Bhagwan taught to get the mind introverted and fix it with concentration on the Self (Heart). Sri Bhagwan's Atma-vichara is indeed the infallible means to destroy the ego in the vijnanamaya kosa and to know the real Self which is to remain as the Real Self without thoughts.

Dear devotees, reflected consciousness always shines as 'I am this (body)', whereas Consciousness of the Self always scintillates as 'I', 'I' which means "I  AM  I".

It follows that there are two ways:  Either worshipping to Him as the Inner Self or to remain fixed on the Self, devoid of thoughts.  Later is Direct and Straight.  By themselves, in my view, either of the two is  neither difficult nor easy, for it depends on the temperament of the devotees.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil       


« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 07:31:23 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

ksksat27

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4153 on: January 23, 2015, 05:56:55 PM »
Dear Pythagoras

your words as below

Yes. Very well as I agree. But my main itch is that from whatever you said, I HAVE NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER. In other words, life is autopilot, it just happens on its own without our effort. Of course we will carry on whatever we have been doing and our practice of self-inquire will not change since discussing this because whatever must happen, happens. So indeed effort will be there but I do not think we should think it is our effort because then it would become doership. Does that make sense?

These are true.   We dont have a choice.  It is all Consciousness doing this entire play.  actually we have no control over whatsover. whatever images, forms, suggestions,  ideas, notions, appears infront of your brain, it is all the reflection from Consciousness.  There is no individual doer before or after realization.  it is a mistaken identity.  there is ony cosmic consciousness wherever and however we look.

All this is only a play.   Your moment of self realization is already pre-destined.  until that moment arrives ,  no matter what you do, you will never reach.  once that moment arrives, no matter what you not do, you will be self realized.  the cosmic illusion ends there.

afterwards until this creation ends, it is a burnt rope.  a switched off fan.  whatever the body existence after realization , it is not real. it is only from onlooker perspective.

advaita says that a jnani and Ishwara is equal in all aspects but the pancha krutya (creation, preservation, destruction, hiding and revealing)  a jnani is not involved in all this. whoever meets and benefits by a jnani , actually gets benefitted by the will of Ishwara. even that cosmic will imposes the will upon itself.

all this is pre-destined by hiranyagarba, in the sense, he imposed upon himself all this.  you , me are only food bodies.  we are just carriers of that shock 'I AM'.   we dont have a choice.  the seeming choice is illusion.

but having said all this,  to experience this , sadhana is required.   why and how is not answered anywhere.  somehow the Self reveals itself to itself and God Knows God finally.

Pythagoras

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4154 on: January 24, 2015, 05:43:13 AM »
Dear ksksat27,

Your words are golden and all that is needed to be said.

Thank you, thank you.

Namaskar,

Pythagoras