Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 757985 times)

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4020 on: December 12, 2014, 12:09:53 AM »

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir

I believe you have highlighted the akshara stray verse for me. My translation is

" One syllable shines for ever in the Heart as Self.
Who is there anywhere who can write it down ?"

I am most grateful to you. This is wonderful.

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4021 on: December 12, 2014, 01:16:34 AM »


Dear Sri Anil

Thank you for your comforting words- I will have to  ponder your initial thinking.

I look forward to further thoughts when that is convenient for you - and thank you again.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4022 on: December 14, 2014, 08:27:40 AM »
Quote from my previous post:
Dear Sri cefnbrithdir, Absolute Reality is That which Is. It alone exists, unconditioned by space and time, and three states, that is our states of waking, dream and sleep. You may remember that Sri Bhagwan has taught that Self is Pure Consciousness in deep sleep state, during the transition period from the deep sleep state to waking state, Self manifests as Aham or 'I' or 'I-I', without 'idam' or this, and therefore it is pure. Sri Bhagwan has taught that this Pure Aham alone is the gateway to the Absolute Reality. This is also the Point of Convergence of all paths. Now, this Pure 'Aham' or 'I' or 'I-I' evolves or manifests as aham 'I' or the ego and 'idam' (this), in the waking state. Brahman or Absolute Reality or the Self cannot be apprehended as It is as It always Is, as in deep sleep. The Self is Pure Consciousness in deep sleep but has any become enlightened during deep sleep state? Brahman or the Self manifests as Aham or 'I' (pure )or 'I-I' without 'idam' or 'this' that it is possible to apprehend Brahman. Aham nama-abhawat. Therefore, It is the Gateway to Realisation of the Swarupa or the Self. Nevertheless, Aham or 'I' or 'I-I', obviously, is just prior to Absolute Reality, and this is the answer, I feel, to your main question. However, I would respond to your post, which contains many questions, adequately on Sunday.




Dear Sri cefnbrithdir,

When I saw your post, my response (above quote) was spontaneous and intuitive, and I feel that my previous post to you has addressed your main question adequately.  You have mentioned in your post that in St. John's Gospel 'I am' is the Son through whom everything came into being and the Son can be seen and known in Jesus. This is quite consistent with Sri Bhagwan Ramana's Teaching. For Instance:

Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Self is pure consciousness in deep slumber, and He also indicated the Self of the transition from sleep to the waking state as the ideal for realisation. He was requested to explain the Same.
Sri Bhagwan graciously answered: The Self is pure consciousness in sleep, it evolves as aham ('I') without idam ('this') in the transition stage; and manifests as aham ('I') and idam ('this') in the waking state. The individual's experience is by means of aham ('I') only. So he must aim at realisation in the way indicated, that is, by means of the transition ('I'). Otherwise the sleep experience does not matter to him. I f the transitional 'I' be realised the substratum is found and that leads to goal.
Talk--314


Besides, Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-323 that the Reflected Light must shine forth as 'I-I', unbroken by 'this'-thought, that is, 'I-I' must shine forth unbroken by the thought of world or the body. He further says that this Reflected Light 'I-I', without 'this', is the only passage to the Realisation of Self-shining Supreme Being. Thus we see that the Absolute Self, the Absolute Existence-Consciousness is that which Is, as It always Is, and therefore, not quite the same as 'I-I' or Aham ('I') without any thought. Sri Bhagwan has unequivocally taught that the Absolute Self first manifests as 'I-I' or Aham ('I), without 'this' (the Absolute Subject without objects),  which then manifests as aham or ego 'I' with 'this'-thought or thought of world and the body.

Therefore, my dear Sri cefnbrithdir, the Absolute Self or Brahman is always as It is, Pure Silence, unmanifest, on the Substratum of which all these manifestations take place or happen, including the manifestation of 'I-I', which though pure, is the first Reflected Light, all the same. If It is held and prolonged, It leads to Realisation of the Absolute Self Sri Bhagwan speaks of. In Enquiry the Process is reversed: if one holds the 'I'-thought or the ego, it leads to the pure 'I-I' state  which cannot subsist without objects or thoughts of objects and is merged into the Absolute Self, and that is the final, irreversible Realisation Sri Bhagwan speaks of. 

Thus, there is the Source of Consciousness which is quite unmanifest, and  'I am' or 'I-I' which despite an expression of Oneness (in consciousness), still seems to be a manifestation, as you beautifully said. Moreover, I accept the Gospel's Teaching that the Father (Unmanifest Absolute Self) can be seen and known through the  Son, 'I am', through which everything came, in the first place. However, we will certainly do well in sadhana of the Atma-vichara if we grasp Sri Bhagwan's Teaching that 'I-I' is apparently also the State of Jnani. I would give here a clue through very Bible's Teaching itself: I  AM  THAT  I  AM.  How do you understand this Great Biblical Mahvakya?


Thanks very much, dear friend, Sri cefnbrithdir.
Pranam,
  Anil
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 10:18:50 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4023 on: December 14, 2014, 09:04:03 AM »
Dear Sri cefnbrithdir,

Sri Bhagwan Ramana has taught that the 'I Am' is the Path as well as the Goal.  When one holds 'I Am' with effort, it is Vichara (Enquiry), and when effortless, It is Realisation. It follows that if this holding of the 'I Am' is effortless, it culminates in Great Merge of the  MANIFESTATION  OF  THE   SON   (I  AM)   INTO   THE   FATHER,  THAT   IS,   THE   ABSOLUTE   SELF.  IT  IS  AKIN  TO   GREAT  BIBLICAL  SAYING:  I  AND MY FATHER ARE ONE.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4024 on: December 14, 2014, 01:07:21 PM »
Dear Sri cefnbrithdir and dear devotees,

What follows is an excerpt from the book Purushottama Ramana authored by Sri V. Ganesan:

A spark from Arunachala, the Hill of Fire, the Hill of Knowledge, reaches Tiruchuzhi and takes shelter in the womb of mother Alagammal. On the night of December 30, 1879, the world is blessed by the birth of Sri Ramana. Eternity had clothed Itself in human form! Since birth the word 'Arunachala' was repeating Itself ceaselessly in young Ramana's heart. Thus, the fire-spark from Arunachala, not only reveals Itself in that brilliancy of the golden-hued form, but also establishes in the perennial Sound: "Arunachala, Arunachala!" The Spiritual Centre is grounded and the 'Word' is born!

The Death Experience burns off the 'I' and the 'mine' in young Ramana. The reverberating   inner chanting of 'Arunachala' swallows all, including Ramana's bodily movement towards the physical proximity of the Fire Father. The first glimpse of His Father, He gets at Aryaninallur is in the form of Pure Light! Soon, Son meets Father. Spellbound by the rocklike Immobility of the Father, Ramana stays put at Arunachala.

Fire not only burns but also glows with light. If Sri Ramana's look, glance of Grace, burnt off the ignorance of the multitude, His ambrosial words invested them with pure Knowledge. His words of Wisdom enshrined in them the cream of Perfect Knowledge.

This Son of Fire, with every word He uttered and with every word He wrote, illumined, illumines and will ever illumine the hearts of millions!






Dear devotees, the import and implication of all this is that the Son is not different from Father, and Father and Son are One. But the Father can be realised or apprehended  through the Son only.

Pranam,
 Anil       
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 01:09:39 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4025 on: December 14, 2014, 05:00:46 PM »
                              WHERE IS HEAVEN

Where is heaven? you ask me, my child,-the sages tell us it is
beyond the limits of birth and death, unswayed by the rhythm of day
and night; it is not of the earth.
But your poet knows that its eternal hunger is for time and
space, and it strives evermore to be born in the fruitful dust.
Heaven is fulfilled in your sweet body, my child, in your
palpitating heart.
The sea is beating its drums in joy, the flowers are a-tiptoe
to kiss you. For heaven is born in you, in the arms of the mother-
dust.

Sri Rabindranath Tagore

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4026 on: December 14, 2014, 11:32:58 PM »


Dear Sri Anil

These are terrific posts and there is really nothing I need to add except that it is very much what I hoped you would say and that I am most grateful to you.


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4027 on: December 15, 2014, 04:36:55 PM »
Dear Sri cefnbrithdir,

You need not be grateful to me. We all need to be grateful and express that gratitude to Him only. For,  it is His Grace alone which has taken us all here and lighted the Path to enable us to realise the Atma-Swarupa.  It is He who taught us to go the way we came. Dear friend, we saw that It is the Self Itself which evolved or manifested as 'I-I' without 'this', and then as the ego-'I' with 'this'.  AND  it is He alone who set us on the Path of Great Involution,  BESTOWING  ON  US  THE  AWARENESS  OF  THE  SPIRITUAL   HEART.

Thanks very much, dear friend, Sri cefnbrithdir.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 04:38:57 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4028 on: December 15, 2014, 04:52:34 PM »
Sri V. Ganesan:

Those who live in the ashram and those who flock to Arunachala should constantly remember the words of Bhagwan on Arunachala. Looking at the Holy Hill, He once said: "What do you think it is? Is it just a hill of rocks? How can it be? Arunachala is the Self Itself. It stands as the Form, full of Grace. Of all the saints who adored Arunachala in many hymns, the child-saint Jnanasambandar's songs are remarkable. In one of them he admirably brings out the reality about Arunachala's Swarupa (Form). He saw the Holy Hill as the 'manifestation of Knowledge (Jnana) inundation'. It is the best and exact description of this Wisdom Mountain."

Bhagwan's Adoration of the Hill was not merely verbal and poetical; He expressed it in action by going round It any number of times. If emphasising the importance of Self-enquiry is His first nature, undoubtedly His second-nature is going round the Hill--He not only did it by way of example, but specially recommended it to others!
Source: Moments Remembered

 


Dear devotees, I feel that not only those who live in the Ashram or in Tiruvannamalai, and not only those who flock to the Holy Hill, but all devotees of Sri Bhagwan must also constantly remember that the Holy Hill, Sri Arunachala is the 'Manifestation of Knowledge Inundation'.

Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 04:55:37 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Pythagoras

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4029 on: December 17, 2014, 01:10:08 AM »
Hi,

What are some symptoms from inquiring?


I also notice while meditating when I am not inquiring, I am observing the source, Self, but I notice my eyes are usually turned backwards and usually has to move and It can't stay still. Am I doing something wrong?

Also is there a certain posture we have to be in? Because as I am aware Swami Vivekananda in Raja Yoga wants us to have our back, shoulders, and neck straight for the kundalini and as I am aware, kundalini will also take place in Self-inquiry as well but I don't recall Bhagavan saying anything about posture.


Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4030 on: December 17, 2014, 06:58:28 AM »
Pythogoras,

The signs of progress(what you perhaps call as symptoms) in any sadhana are a state of calm,peace,freedom from worldly desires.The objective of sadhana is to know that you are neither the body nor the thoughts with which presently one is identified-to get rid of the identification with the body and mind.

The objective of Raja Yoga is to  awaken the Kundalini at the base of the spine and take it through various chakras onto sahasrara-and this presupposes a strong body and a firm asana(seated position),an upright posture,regulated breath,etc.This is a path which needs to be learnt under the direct guidance of a guru.One should have the time and leisure to do all that.This obviously is not suited for most people.

The path of knowledge or self surrender does not need the above-it just requires one's mind to be centered on Self or God,irrespective of what the body or mind may be engaged in outwardly.
Here are a couple of entries  from Sri Annamalai swami's diary:

1.On one occasion when I asked Sri Bhagavan, "How is one to practice bhakti while being engaged in external activities?" He did not respond immediately. Ten minutes passed by. Some girls who had come for Sri Bhagavan?s darshan started singing a 'Kummi' song-'Let us churn curd without forgetting Krishna' and danced as they sang. At once Sri Bhagavan graciously pointed out "Oye! This is the answer to your query. This is Karma Yogam."

2."To be engaged in meditation occasionally and to be engaged in external activity at other times- What is the difference between the two?"
 Sri Bhagavan graciously replied: "Both, meditating and engaging in activity are the same. It is akin to  naming  the same thing in two languages; even as  the crow  eyes two sides with a single eye, the elephant performs the dual functions of breathing and drinking water  with the  trunk and the cobra performs the twin functions of seeing and hearing with its eyes.?"
He further recited this verse from kaivalya Navaneetham (chapter 2, verse 173):
"When one remains firm without forgetting 'I am pure consciousness, I am whole'- What does it matter however much one thinks, whatever one does? Isn?t all this unreal like a dream that ceases on waking up? 'Verily I am Bliss.' "
 


The crow mythologically was supposed to be eyeing two sides with one eye-the above example is based on that-The idea is that although the mind is centered,it may still engage in outer activities.The symptoms that you may initially find are a result of straining oneself in trying to free the mind from its usual ways-over a period of time,one would get over it and take to the practice as easy as a duck takes to the pond.
You have asked whether kundalini is awakened in the path of self enquiry-Yes,but one's attention is not on that.It also does not depend on any posture that the body takes.This path also avoids all the pitfalls and dangers that one may encounter in Raja Yoga.
Namaskar
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 07:07:46 AM by Ravi.N »

Pythagoras

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4031 on: December 17, 2014, 08:43:12 AM »
Ravi,

Wow, that was a very beautiful reply. Thank you for such detailed and much information and clearing it up for me.

I notice after a while of inquiring, I tend to forget many things. But this forgetting is different then the usual "forgetting". It is still there but not very obvious, it is like I am in a cloud at times and nothing really comes to me as far as memory from knowledge of the past. It is not very clear, but It is still there. Sometimes I think it is the ego that does not want to forget as I think it is afraid of not knowing something or losing what it has learned but paradoxically at the same time on this path, all memory will also have to be forgotten. So I'm sort of confused.

Also another symptom is that I am in a blank state a lot. I wake up and have no desire to move about and do things for a while, until I start doing some work.

I also find that at time, that repetition of "Who am I?" makes me quite dull or bored because saying the same thing over and over again. I don't know what to do? At times I just meditate on 'I' and try to feel it. Other times, I meditate upon the Source and when a thought comes up, I go back to the Source, and at other times, I meditate upon Sri Bhagavan or God without thinking I am separated from them. I don't know what else to do. Usually my order of meditation, while meditating I start with quick pranayama breathing then move on to inquiring, and after a while, I meditate on Bhagavan, and then move to meditating upon the Source on 'I'. I usually meditate between 3,4 or 5 AM whenever I wake up to go to the bathroom, I make no excuse, and then after meditating, I go back to bed and wake up around 9,10, or 11 at times. And continue my meditating. And then eat lunch and give myself 2 hour to relax (want to not work to hard on the body, though I am not the body, it gets sore at times) and then meditate around 2 pm and then continue again around 5, and then another meditation around night time 9,10, or 11 depending on some days. I usually meditate about 40-50 minutes.

I read that Lakshmana Swamy did raja yoga while using Sri Bhagavan's method and reached the goal.

I just want some clarification if I am doing the right thing or not.

Thanks

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4032 on: December 17, 2014, 06:13:16 PM »
Dear  Sri  Pythagoras,

Quote:
"What are some symptoms from inquiring?"
"So I'm sort of confused.


Dear friend, there is nothing extraordinary about your symptom of confusion. Pre-Enquiry, you took for granted that there are individual selves and the objects and the world, and you were indifferent to the Truth behind your own existence. When you have moved away from the initial indifference by raising the fundamental question 'Who am I?' in all earnestness, with abiding Grace (with love for Sri Bhagwan in heart), it first creates existential doubt as to who really you are. So far one has taken the objects and the world, and the individual consciousness seeing them, for real. Enquiry gradually demolishes these concepts, forte begins to crumble. This is the state of initial confusion, which Sri Bhagwan Himself termed as Progress.  When one goes deeper, His Grace bestows Clarity, which leads to experience culminating in Realisation. Therefore, you have moved away from indifference to confusion which, Sri Bhagwan has taught, is progress.
Dear friend, although I would eschew from using the word 'symptoms' here because I identify this word with outward signs of some disease within the body. However, yes, certainly, there are some unmistakeable signs of progress when one takes up Sri Bhagwan's Atma-vichara as the main sadhana in all sincerity, with love.
1. It creates doubt as to one's real identity. I feel from your post that this is exactly what you are experiencing right now. 
2. It results in dispassion and non-attachment.
3. Mind gains strength, that is, gradually less and less thoughts arise, thus acquiring one-pointedness. Such one-pointed mind is able to attend to single object or thought or concept with ease. And gradually you reach a state in Enquiry when you take to its practice as easily as a duck takes to the pond, as Sri Ravi bhai saheb has beautifully mentioned.
4. one acquires ability to sift the Real from the unreal, that is, Self from the not-Self,  as we do in science.

Dear Sri Pythagoras, as far as your questions regarding posture and kundalini are concerned, Sri Ravi bhai saheb, I feel, has responded admirably and adequately.

Quote from Sri Ravi:
"You have asked whether kundalini is awakened in the path of self enquiry-Yes,but one's attention is not on that. It also does not depend on any posture that the body takes.This path also avoids all the pitfalls and dangers that one may encounter in Raja Yoga."

This, I feel, is quite consistent with Sri Bhagwan's Teaching regarding posture and kundalini. As far as Raja Yoga is concerned, I do not wish to say anything, for I have not practiced it.   


Quote from you:
'I also find that at time, that repetition of "Who am I?" makes me quite dull or bored because saying the same thing over and over again. I don't know what to do?'


No, Self-enquiry is certainly not the repetition of any mantra. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the very purpose of Self-enquiry is to focus the entire mind at its Source. AND  MEDITATE ON IT--'it is also not a case of one 'I' searching for another 'I''. Therefore, It is to attend to feeling-'I', that is to focus on to oneself (Self-attention), hold it, and keep it steadily poised in pure Self-awareness with the entire mind. This is what you have to do.


Quote from you:
"I also notice while meditating when I am not inquiring, I am observing the source, Self, but I notice my eyes are usually turned backwards and usually has to move and It can't stay still. Am I doing something wrong?"

What do you really mean--while meditating-not inquiring- all the same observing the source?
Who observes what?  Are there two selves?


Thanks very much, dear Sri Pythogoras.
Pranam,
  Anil


« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 06:19:37 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Pythagoras

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4033 on: December 18, 2014, 05:21:04 AM »
Dear Sri Eranilkumarsinha,

Thank you for your reply, but what about my forgetful state? For example, I re-read notes that I have taken down of Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita so I can remember in daily life, but at times I don't remember them on the spot. Not until I look back at my notes, then it I remember it but it is not totally forgotten like something you have forgot and remember again, from observation, it just seems like it is hiding in the back.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #4034 on: December 18, 2014, 05:26:46 PM »
Quote from Sri Pythagoras: 
"but what about my forgetful state?"



Dear Sri Pythagoras,


I will attempt to see this problem in the light of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. Sri Bhagwan has taught that oblivion and memory are only thought forms. They will therefore alternate so long as there are thoughts.

Dear friend, it is within the experience of all of us that when we attempt to rake our memory we fail. Do we not? AND  IT  AT  ONCE  FLASHES  OUT,  WHEN  OUR  MINDS  ARE  CALM  AND  QUIET. Isn't it? Well, mental calm is necessary for remembrance of forgotten things.

Therefore, my advice to you is: First be off the thought-waves by Enquiry, as taught by Sadguru, Sri Bhagwan Ramana. 

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 05:28:24 PM by eranilkumarsinha »