Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759158 times)

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #315 on: December 26, 2010, 02:40:51 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan’s reply to the Mother when She insisted on taking Him back home should be the final words on the question of  free will and destiny for us, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana. Sri Bhagwan said that what is to happen will happen and what is not to happen will not happen however hard  we may try not to happen and  to happen respectively. Therefore , Sri Bhagwan said, the best course is to remain silent. But so long as the wrong identification persists, question of the free will as well as the destiny keep cropping up unwittingly.

 Sri Bhagwan says that free will and destiny last as long as the body lasts. But wisdom transcends both, for the Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. ( Talks, no. 346 )

Sri Bhagwan : Free-Will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long there is free will. All the sastras are based on this fact and they advise directing the free will in the right channel.
  Find out to whom Free-Will or Destiny matters. Abide in it. Then these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom these questions arise ? Find out and be at peace.
                                                                          Talks, no. 426

Ji, yes, if we enquire within and abide as the Self, Free-will as well as the Destiny will certainly be rendered null and void. Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                                Anil
                                                                             
     

 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #316 on: December 26, 2010, 03:19:50 PM »
  Dear devotees, Plato's Idea of Goodness may remain an unsolved problem
 for the empiricists as well as the materialists. But Plato himself reached the 'Idea of God'
 holding the Idea of Goodness.For the devotees of Sri Bhagwan, this does not raise any problem either.
 For the devotees of Sri Bhagwan are aware that only 'the Self is'. And It is the repository of all ideas including the Ides of Goodness.Thank you. Anil 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #317 on: December 26, 2010, 05:58:10 PM »



Dear Anil,

Yes. What Sri Bhagavan said to Mother Azhagamma was in essence,
Saranagati Tattvam.  Everything is ordained by god. Whatever is not
destined not to happen, will not happen even if one tries to make it happen. Whatever is destined to happen, will happen even of one does make any try make it to happen.  Hence it is better to be silent.

What Sri Bhagavan later said to Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni is atma
vichara.  'See where the mantras that come from you, become quiescent.  You stay there.'  This is in essence is Atma Vichara.
All pujas, mantras, karmas, yoga sadhanas should finally end in
Atma Vichara.

Sri Bhagavan used to give the example of bulls that were drawing a cart with a lot of goods for which tax has to be levied.  Once the cartman wanted to divert the bulls into a jungle path to avoid tax
at toll gate.  Soon he went into sleep inside the cart.  When he woke up at 2.00 a.m. he found that the bulls have stopped at the toll gate.  So the bulls can never escape the tollgate.  Like this,
we all have to finally come to Atma Vichara, regardless of other paths  that we pursue.

Sunga Chavadi tappathu said Sri Bhagavan.

Sunga Chavadi - toll gate.

Atma Vicharam and surrender are the two sides of the same coin.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #318 on: December 27, 2010, 08:40:35 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes, the word ‘quiescence’ holds the key to Realization and is the essence of the Atma Vichara. All sadhanas other than Atma Vichara are preparatory to Atma Vichara and, therefore, auxiliary in nature, if I may say so. That is the reason why Sri Bhagwan advised not to waste time in the streets and the by-lanes and exhorted His devotees to take up Atma Vichara straight away. For all other sadhanas  essentially, finally, as well as naturally, must also end in the Atma Vichara.

Dear sir, general meditation on names and the forms is objective where as Atma Vichara is subjective. Meditation on the names and the forms creates a split in the consciousness where there is none. In Atma Vichara, the subject, the thinker, is held from the very beginning. Hence, general meditation is dual where as Atma Vichara is non-dual.

I feel that Sri Bhagwan’s statement that there are no two ‘I’s, there is only one ‘I’, is one of the greatest revelations ever made in any field whatsoever and is the greatest Act of Grace of Lord Sri Arunachala Ramana for His devotees and seekers. Moreover, Sri Bhagwan also said that ‘I’ casts of the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains ‘I’.

Atma Vichara is the practice as well as the Goal. How ? My submission is as follows :

Sri Bhagwan says that nobody denies the existence of his self.
“ I AM “ is the Realization.
“ I AM “ is also clue to Realization. Sri Bhagwan says that to pursue the clue “ I AM “ tilll Realization is Atma Vichara. Therefore, Atma Vichara  and the Realization are the same. And, therefore, the Sadhana and the Goal are the same.

Sri Bhagwan : “ Vichara is the process and the goal also. ‘I AM’ is the goal and the final Reality. To hold to it with effort is Vichara. When spontaneous and natural it is Realization.
                                                                              Talks, no. 390

Besides, I wish to say that in the Sadhana of the Atma Vichara, the taste of the Realization Itself and the concomitant  Bliss is available to the seekers from very beginning of the Sadhana.

                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                               Anil           

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #319 on: December 27, 2010, 09:03:23 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  In Atma Vichara, the goal and the path are the same.
It is subjective, whereas the other paths are objective.  You
pray to the god with form, or do puja or chant slokas, keeping
the ego intact.  Only in final surrender, the ego is lost.  Whereas
in Atma Vichara, you first investigate the ego and make it lose
its hold on you. 

Then what about prarabdha?  The question of destiny. Sri
Bhagavan said:  Leave it to the Lord or Guru.  He told Muruganar:

Irunathapadiye Iru  -  Be as You are.
Guru aruL cheluthum vazhikke sel - Go as per the way of guru's
grace. It can be good or it can be problematic.  Leave it to  the
Guru.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #320 on: December 27, 2010, 09:17:14 AM »
  Dear sir, ' Sunga chavadi tappathu ', you mentioned, needs to be further ellaborated. Thank you. Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #321 on: December 27, 2010, 11:00:37 AM »



Dear Anil,

Sunga chavadi thappathu.  Sungam means tax or toll.  Chavadi
is the place, where there is a small window, from which a govt.
official collects tax for vehicles using the road.  One cannot escape
paying the toll, 'thappathu'.  The tollgate or chavadi has to be reached before you cross the road and reach your destination.

For example, I am giving what Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman
gives as the example:

In the olden days, merchants used to buy goods in Pollachi [near
Coimbatore, Tamizh Nadu] market, where the goods are cheaper and then take them in bullock carts to Palakkad [in Kerala] for selling with a profit.  One of these merchants wanted to avoid tollgate and pay tax.  So he diverted the carts into a jungle path to avoid going through the tollgate in the main road.  It was late evening.  The cartwallah after lighting a lantern, under the cart, went to sleep.

When he woke up, say, around 2 a.m. [by which time the cart must have reached Palakkad,] he found to his dismay, that the bulls were simply standing before the tollgate.  So, the bulls knew the route and even if the cart was diverted into a jungle path, the bulls retraced and came and stood before the tollgate, as was usual the practice!  Even if you choose other paths, the soul had to come to self inquiry, before reaching the destination i.e. self realization,
at any cost!  The toll-man, the guru or god,  will not leave you from paying the tax!

Sri Bhagavan used to give this example.  That is, for reaching the final destination, that is self-realization, one has to go through self inquiry.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #322 on: December 27, 2010, 04:37:57 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for explaining ‘ Sunga Chavadi thappathu ‘ so nicely. I understand it now as follows :

One cannot escape pursuing Self-Enquiry to reach the final destination of  Self Realization. ( One cannot escape paying the toll tax, thappathu. )

One has to go through the practice of the Self Enquiry to reach the Self. (  One has to go through Chavadi to reach final destination. )

  Even if one tries to avoid paying toll tax by diverting the cart to side roots etc. to escape the toll gate, the bull knows the path and it will certainly take one to the gate.

Even if one chooses other paths, soul knows the straight path and ultimately it reaches the Self Enquiry to reach the final destination of the Self Realization.

Dear sir, I also learnt from you :
‘ Irunathapadiye Iru ’-Be as you are.
And ‘ Guru arulcheluthum vazhikke ‘-Leave the rest to the Guru.

Have I understood the meaning correctly, Sir ?

                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                        Anil       

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #323 on: December 28, 2010, 08:18:43 AM »
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Sri Bhagwan said that a person’s search for happiness is the unconscious search for the Self. We all desire our happiness to be permanent. Sri Bhagwan says that such desire for permanency of happiness bespeaks such permanency in our own nature. We must understand that we are seeking only that which is innate in our nature, nay, which is our real nature. Happiness cannot lie outside of ourselves. It cannot be found in either objects or in others like near and dear ones. The apparent happiness that one seems to derive by securing a coveted or a much desired object or in a satisfying relationship is, in fact, happiness within. But such happiness can, as is obvious, cannot be permanent. Seeking continues anyway. And with this endless seeking one is doomed to experience concomitant and alternating cycles of sorrows and pleasures and remain trapped in this quagmire birth after birth.

What is obstructing us from realizing our own nature as the Bliss which is the only source of permanent happiness ? One is Existence, Consciousness and Bliss himself. Existence is not different from the Consciousness and the Consciousness is not different from the Bliss. ALL THREE ARE THAT ONLY. And one is always That only. Only ignorance, of the form ‘I am the body’ is preventing from being the Bliss that one in truth is  and the nature of ignorance is mere non-existent, false and insentient thoughts which all are dependent on the root I-thought or the ego. One is pure consciousness. Thus it follows that so long as the ego is in control and seeking and basking in relative pleasures, in the relative world, with relative consciousness, one is doomed to live a life as ordained by the prarabdha. In truth, we do not really have a choice.

Dear seekers, should we not give a whole-hearted sincere try by treading the straight Path of Atma Vichara with an attitude of surrender to the Guru. We should never forget that only Self Enquiry with an attitude of surrender to Sri Bhagwan can ensure removal of ignorance of our true nature. Only then this tenacious ego can be jettisoned. See what the Guru says :

“ One wants to enjoy bliss, eternal happiness, while retaining the ego intact. How is it possible ? The two cannot co-exist. Bliss is there when one is immersed within in the desireless state. On the other hand, the ego is maintained by the sprouting of desires.”

                                                     From More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi

However hard one tries, so long as one is there to try to achieve happiness in the ephemeral and the illusory world, permanent happiness will remain elusive. Ego and happiness cannot co-exist. Enquiry into oneself is the only root to that.

                                                                         Thank you,
                                                                             Anil
                   



Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #324 on: December 28, 2010, 09:39:55 AM »



Dear Anil,

Iruntha padiye Iru - means Be as you are. Irunthapadi -as you are now, Iru, Be.  This is self enquiry.

Guru aruL chelutthum vazhikke sel -  Guru aruL chelutthum, as guru's grace [aruL=grace] directs you, be it good or bad, happiness or sufferings, sel - go.  This is saranagati.

Once there was a Vaishanvite devotee, who came to Sri Bhagavan.
He said:  What will happen if I constantly pray to Narayana?  Sri
Bhagavan said:  All good will happen.  Narayana will be pleased.
He will take you to Vaikuntam.  The devotee was not satisfied with this answer.  He asked further:  What will happen in Vaikuntam?
Sri Bhagavan said:  Why should you ask this?  You will be in
Narayana's abode, with all devotees singing his glory.  Narayana
will be happy watching you all, sitting on Adisesha.  The devotee was still not pleased.  He asked:  What will happen then?  Sri
Bhagavan then smilingly said:  If Narayana is so pleased, he will
one day, call you near, whisper in your ears, "Please do self enquiry! Investigate who you are!"

Everyone laughed.  Then the Vaishnava devotee said:  Then, that self inquiry, I can do it here itself.  Why go to Vaikuntam?
Sri Bhagavan laughed and said:  That is exactly what I am saying also!  The devotees including the Vaishnavite, again laughed!

The story indicates that the individual soul ultimately does not
want mere Vaikuntam or Kailasam.  The soul wants merger with the Self, One without a second. The merger alone will satisfy the individual soul  or Jiva eventually, as the rivers do not stop till they re-join with ocean.  Even if one goes to Vaikuntam or Kailasam,
the individuality, the ego, is retained.  The ego completely vanishes only when there is merger with the Self.

Saiva Siddhantam calls these as four stages:

1. Salokam - in the same place where Siva.
2. Sameepyam - being very close to Siva in Kailas.
3. Sarupam - having the same form as Siva.  Like Sivaganas appear like Siva only in the same form.
4. Saujyam - Merging with Siva.  Becoming Sivam. Or
Consciousness.



Arunachala Siva.             



eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #325 on: December 28, 2010, 03:40:27 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes, thank you so much for clearing my confusion regarding the meaning of the verse composed by Sri Muruganar. I now understand  the meaning of the sentences ‘ Irunatha padiye Iru  ’ and  ‘ Guru arul cheluthum ‘.

Dear sir, the story of the Vaishanavite devotee that you narrated so beautifully in your previous post contains a great teaching for us also. You yourself have elucidated it profoundly at the end of the story. I was particularly thrilled to read the following lines :

( Sri Bhagwan then smilingly said : If  Narayana is so pleased, he will one day call you near, whisper in your ears, ‘ Please do Self-enquiry ! Investigate who you are ! )

When I had been reading your post, Verse 10, Ch 10, of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, came strongly to my mind. I first cite the Verse below :

             Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam,
             Dadami budhi-yogam  tam yena mam upayanti te.
To them, ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding,
by which they attain to Me.

Dear sir, have you contemplated on this Verse ? Sri Bhagwan as Lord Krishna declares that He bestows ‘budhi yoga’ to those who are ever in steadfast worship to Him by which they attain to Him. Now, what  exactly does ‘budhi yoga’ mean ? In most versions of Srimad  Bhagavad Gita, this has been interpreted to mean ‘yoga of understanding’ as has been taken here from the ‘Song Celestial’. However, in some other versions, ‘budhi yogam’ mentioned in this Verse has been translated to mean ‘intuitive power’ as a new capacity of understanding.

But I feel that by ‘budhi yoga’ the great Lord means only and only the Self Enquiry or Atma Vichara. How else Sri Bhagwan would help His loving devotees attain to Him ?
Did He not investigate as to His true Self during His ‘Death Experience’ ? Did He not advise the Vaishanavite devotee to investigate who he was, as beautifully narrated by
 you ?

Four stages of Saiva Sidhantam, as narrated by you, is also important for me. Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                       Anil     
           

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #326 on: December 29, 2010, 08:44:22 AM »
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Bubbles in the ocean are verily the ocean.
Ghat-akasa (akasa in the pitcher) is verily the Maha-akasa.
Jivas (relative consciousness) are verily the Supreme Conciousness.

We all are dreaming that we are limited individuals with names and forms .residing on a solid sphere in a known region. This is the waking dream.

Reality is One Infinite Sentient Silence Here and Now. It is ‘ Fullness of Consciousness ‘, ‘Pure Intelligence’, ‘Supreme Bliss’ and ‘Eternal Existence’, All in One at the same time. That is our Permanent Abode, nay, that  we are ever. ( Tat tvam asi)

Existence is ever realized. Existence, Sri Bhagwan said, can never be obscured by Maya. We ourselves cannot deny the fact of our own existence.

This body is inert like the log of wood. What intelligence, what principle are enabling us to think, to know and to perform actions ? We see dying all around us, we often see the deaths of our near and dear ones, certainty of death stares into our eyes all the time and we know that death is inevitable and one day it will consume all of us. Still, there is something that says from within ‘I’ cannot die, ‘I” am immortal. Well, this is the truth. ‘I’ is immortal.

We all are aware of the feeling of the existence. With a little tuning, we can be aware of this feeling of the existence underlying the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping and even while engaged in activities during the waking state. We all feel it, we know it to be the same from the childhood to this day, although the body has decayed meanwhile and changed drastically. Reality is beckoning every moment. But we are in deep spiritual slumber. Infatuation with the body will not go away easily.

What is the ‘Original Sin’ ?
Two verses from ‘ The Supreme Science As Taught by Sri Raman’ by Sri Lakshman Sarma (WHO) are cited :

V-386
“ The Master says ‘original sin’ affirmed to be the cause of death by the Christians, is not an act done by the first man, but only the sense ‘I am the body’. “

V-387
“ This  sin is said to pertain to man, but men are not men in deep sleep. The sense of being a man is due to the identification of oneself with the body. Consequently, the original sin is only this identification of oneself as the body. “

                                                                             Thank you,
                                                                                 Anil       

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #327 on: December 29, 2010, 12:33:52 PM »



Dear Anil,

I have not read the verse of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, cited by you,
in depth.  I am of the view that what Krishna says as Buddhi Yogam, is only sharp intellect that helps understand the Truth.  Sri
Bhagavan uses the word "NuN madhi" in Verse 23 of ULLadu Narpadu. Here, the phrase "NuN madhi" is translated only as sharp intellect that helps understanding.

Prof. K. Swaminathan while translating the above cited Verse 23,
says:

"The body says not it is 'I'.  And no one says, 'In sleep there is
not 'I'.'  When 'I' arises all other things arise.  Whence this
'I' arises, SEARCH WITH A KEEN MIND.

Arthur Osborne also uses the phrase WITH A KEEN MIND.

Smt. Kanakammal uses the phrase WITH A SHARP AND KEEN MIND.

I think, sharp mind or sharp intellect used to understand the
Truth is buddhi yogam.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #328 on: December 29, 2010, 02:31:49 PM »
  At long last, a time comes when one realizes the illusory as well as the transitory nature of the world and futility of all endeavours therein. Intellect is, at last, convinced about the meaninglessness of the temporal life. Grace enables it to realize that there is certainly more to human life than what it has assumed it to be all along.

By the Grace of the Guru, the Path of the Self Enquiry is gained by the intellect. Seeking inward, inward……..deep inward with keen intellect one’s Source and abiding in It is the Path as well as the Goal. Sri Bhagwan says that after continuous practice with  perseverance, intellect realizes that it functions because it is itself enabled by a Higher Power and that on its own it cannot reach that Power. Sri Bhagwan says that a stage is reached during the practice itself of the Atma Vichara when the intellect ceases to function. When it thus ceases to function, that Supreme Power i.e. the Self is left all alone. Sri Bhagwan says that is the Realization ; that is the finality and that is the Goal. Thank you.

Dear Sri Subramanian sir, Sri Bhagwan says that before finality of the Realization, budhi itself ceases to function after realization by it that it itself is enabled by some Higher Power. I still feel that the keen intellect, if this is what is meant by the ‘budhi yogam’, must work out to Vichara to attain to Him. Thank you.
                                   

                                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                           Anil         

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #329 on: December 29, 2010, 03:10:34 PM »



Dear Anil,

There is one dhyana sloka written by Viswanatha Swami, which is
sung before the Ashottaram of Sri Bhagavan, as Invocation. Ashottaram = 108 Holy Names.

The verse reads as under:

Let us meditate in the Heart on Ramana, the
boundless ocean of Being-Awareness-Bliss, of which
the universe is but a wave, the steadfast one
established firmly in the Heart-Cave's depth,
free from distracting thought.

Sri Bhagavan remained as a waveless mid-ocean of Being-
Awareness-Bliss.  Thoughts were there.  But they were not
DISTRACTING THOUGHTS.  Only the distracting thoughts are
the waves, foam etc.,

The original sin as described by Sri Bhagavan is the thought,
"I am the body".  Adam and Eve understood their sexual difference as man and woman only with this thought.  Eating the forbidden
apple is nothing but this thought.



Arunachala Siva.