Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756195 times)

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3045 on: April 14, 2013, 08:03:21 AM »
Bande, where dost thou seek Me ? Lo ! I am beside thee.
1 am neither in temple nor in mosque :
I am neither in Kaaba nor in
Kailash : Neither am I in rites and ceremonies,
nor in Yoga and renunciation. If thou art a true seeker, thou shalt at
once see Me : thou shalt meet Me
in a moment of time. Kabir says, "O Sadhu ! God is the
breath of all breath."

Sage Sri Kabir

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3046 on: April 14, 2013, 04:00:47 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,


Thanks very much, sir, for a very beautiful post. Sri Gaudapada’s simile of a ‘firebrand and its rotation creating an imaginary circle’ is very apt.  However, what I appreciated most in your post is the following observation:
“The sparks finally dies coming back to the fire. This is how the mind which shoots out and created the world and persons, upon Self-enquiry comes back to the Source and merge.”

This is a profound observation and strikes a chord deep within me. Thanks again, sir.

Sri Bhagwan, while explaining the Stanza 6 in Sri Arunachala Ashtaka says, “Though it is only One, yet by its wonderful power it gets reflected on the tiny dot ‘I’ (the ego) otherwise known as ignorance or the aggregate of latent tendencies; this reflected light is the relative knowledge.”
The latent tendencies that manifest are shaped in accordance with one’s ‘prarabdha’, or the past karma fructifying now. Therefore, this wondrous power manifests the latent tendencies, according to one’s prarabdha, as the outer gross world and withdraws the gross external world as the subtle internal tendencies. SUCH WONDROUS POWER IS CALLED THE MIND IN THE SUBTLE PLANE AND BRAIN IN THE PHYSICAL PLANE. Sri Bhagwan says that the mind and the brain act as the magnifier to that Eternal One Being and shows It forth as the expanded universe. Thus in the waking and dream states, the mind is outward bent, and in deep sleep state it is inward bent. Therefore, it follows that with the mind as the medium, the One Supreme being alone appears to have diversified in the waking and dream states and remains withdrawn in the sleep or swoon states, etc.

SRI BHAGWAN: THEREFORE, YOU ARE ONLY THAT AND CANNOT BE OTHERWISE. WHATEVER THE CHANGES, THE SAME ONE BEING REMAINS AS YOURSELF; THERE IS NOTHING BESIDES YOURSELF.

Dear Sri Subramanian sir, Sri Bhagwan, while explaining Stanza 6, says that the tiny dot is the ego. This tiny dot is made up of darkness, that is, the ego consisting of latent tendencies. Sri Bhagwan says that the seer or the subject or the ego rising, it expands itself as the seen, the object or the inner organs. The light, however, must be dim for the Pure Radiant Being to rise up as the ego. Sri Bhagwan says that it is possible only in Its Light diffused through darkness. THIS DARKNESS IS OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE ORIGINAL IGNORANCE OR THE ORIGINAL SIN. The Light passing through it is called the Reflected Light. It is this Reflected Light, which on its own merits, is commonly known as the Pure Mind or Isvara or God.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil       




eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3047 on: April 15, 2013, 08:38:14 AM »
HAVE you not heard the tune which the Unstruck Music is playing ? In the midst of the chamber the harp of joy is gently and sweetly played ; and where is the need of going without to hear it ?
If you have not drunk of the nectar of that One Love, what boots it though you should purge yourself of all stains ?
The Kazi is searching the words of the Koran, and instructing others : but if his heart be not steeped in that love, what does it avail, though he be a teacher of men ?
The Yogi dyes his garments with red : but if he knows naught of that colour of love, what does it avail though his garments be tinted ?
Kabir says : " Whether I be in the temple or the balcony, in the camp or in the flower garden, I tell you truly that every moment my Lord is taking His delight in me."

Sage Sri Kabir

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3048 on: April 15, 2013, 08:47:16 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, kindly give the exact translation of the Stanza 6 of the ‘Sri Arunachala Ashtaka’. I have a little doubt regarding the available translation of the same. Therefore, I wish to have a translation of the Stanza 6, as accurate as possible.  Thanks very much, sir. Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3049 on: April 15, 2013, 02:10:48 PM »
Dear anil,

The Verse 6 of Arunachala Ashtakam is quite tricky.  The Tamizh original contains the word manam (mind) two times.
In one word Sri Bhagavan says manam (mind) and in the other, He adds manam enum kallil i.e whetstone of mind.

I have seen many English translations. They use pure mind and impure mind.  I find Kanakammal's translation as the
best one.

She says:

...........
A gem is cut and polished on a whetstone and made to shine, freed of all its flaws.  Likewise, the mind, through ignorance,
has  lost its real nature of pure Awareness.  But when sharpened and finely tuned (maRuvaRak kadaiya) and made subtle
on the WHETSTONE OF INQUIRING MIND, it sheds all its latent impressions and shines with the light of Thy grace.  Like the
light of the polished ruby (mani oLi mevum), the mind that has become the form of Atman will be unsullied by the flaw of
attachment to any other object. .........

Arunachala Siva,     

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3050 on: April 15, 2013, 06:32:14 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Ji. Yes, thanks very much, sir. But I think that the above is the translation of the Stanza 5 of ‘Sri Arunachala Ashtakam’ and not Stanza 6. Indeed, this translation of the Stanza 5 by is better than any I have seen so far.

Dear sir, Stanza 5 teaches:
1. As the string in a necklace of gems, it is Thou in Thy Unity who penetrates all the diversity of beings and religions.
2. If like a gem when it is cut and polished, the impure mind is worked against the wheel to free it of its flaws, it will take on the light of Thy Grace and shine like a ruby, whose fire is unaffected by any outward object.

Here Smt. Kanakammal says, “A gem is cut and polished on a whetstone and made to shine, freed of all its flaws. Likewise, the mind, through ignorance,
has lost its real nature of pure Awareness. But when sharpened and finely tuned and made subtle
on the WHETSTONE OF INQUIRING MIND, it sheds all its latent impressions and shines with the light of Thy grace. Like the
light of the polished ruby, the mind that has become the form of Atman will be unsullied by the flaw of
attachment to any other object. .........”

This part of the Stanza5 has certainly been very well covered by Smt. Kanakammal. She brings in ‘Whetstone of the inquiring mind’ and goes on to beautifully say that when sharpened and finely tuned and made subtle on the Whetstone of the inquiring mind, it sheds all its latent impressions and shines with the Light of His Grace. This is indded delightful.

Dear sir, there is however another equally important aspect to Stanza 5:
3.  “When a sensitive plate has been exposed to the sun, can it receive impressions afterwards?”   

Once the sensitive plate is exposed to the sun, it cannot take on images any more. SRI BHAGWAN TEACHES THAT LIKEWISE, THE MIND (THE SENSITIVE PLATE) AFTER EXPOSURE IN HIS LIGHT, CANNOT REFLECT THE WORLD  AND OBJECTS ANY MORE.

Dear sir, I do not have any doubt regarding Stanza 5, but Stanza 6 in ‘Sri Arunachala Ashtakam’ is different. For instance, ‘tiny dot or the ego or the tiny dot made up of darkness or the ego consisting of latent tendencies’ have not been mentioned in the available translations of the same, whereas Sri Bhagwan uses these words while explaining Stanza 6 in Talks. This is why I requested you to give the accurate translation of the same, if possible.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil

sanjaya_ganesh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3051 on: April 15, 2013, 06:41:31 PM »
Very true and well said. On a related note,  I have also heard my vedanta guru Prof. G. B explain it thus. Body has to be purified to go byond body - you use Yoga Asanas for that. Mind has to be purified to go beyond mind - and all sadhanas are for that. Just like you cannot swing across a muddy lake. You need to remove the mud and then you can swim across very easily. Trying to swim across a muddy lake, you fail and die / never reach the other end.

-Sanjay.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3052 on: April 15, 2013, 06:48:32 PM »
Dear Anil,

I agree.

Stanza 6 has also been translated by Kanakmmal in eqully fine way.

She says:  Arunachala!  As the Heart, the radiant Awareness, Thou alone art the only Being and Truth.  There dwells in Thee
a wondrous power, which is naught but Thyself.  From that, illumined by Thy light of Awareness, process the crowd of dark,
shadowy  finely subtle, atom like thoughts. They are set in motion by the whirl of prarabdha (like a film projected on the screen
by a magnifying lens), projected by the lens of mind, illumined by the reflected light of the Atman within through the inner organs,
and without, through the five senses, like eyes.  They appear like the pictures of a cinema show,as the gross phenomenon of the world
of names and forms.  Oh Hill of Grace !  Whether the world appearances cease to appear or continue to appear, they are nothing
apart from Thee. 

Here the point to be noted is that mind is a wondrous power emanating from the Atman only.  It does all sorts of chaotic activities
under the reflected light of the Atman.  It spreads its tentacles to the senses and gross phenomenon of world of names and forms
appear.  All world appearances through the mind are nothing apart from Atman.

Sri  Bhagavan has given various definitions for mind. He has said, 1) there is no mind at all;  2) mind is only bundle of thoughts;

Here He says mind shoots from Atman as a wondrous power.

Arunachala Siva.               

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3053 on: April 16, 2013, 08:08:47 AM »
HE is dear to me indeed who can call back the wanderer to his home. In the home is the true union, in
the home is enjoyment of life : why should I forsake my home and wander in the forest ? If Brahma helps me to realize truth, verily I will find both bondage and deliverance in home.
He is dear to me indeed who has power to dive deep into Brahma ; whose mind loses itself with ease in His contemplation.
He is dear to me who knows Brahma, and can dwell on His supreme truth in meditation ; and who can play the melody of the Infinite by uniting love and renunciation in life.
Kabir says : " The home is the abiding place ; in the home is reality ; the home helps to attain Him Who is real. So stay where you are, and all things shall come to you in time."

Sage Sri Kabir

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3054 on: April 16, 2013, 11:16:48 AM »
Quote from Sri Sanjay:
“ Mind has to be purified to go beyond mind - and all sadhanas are for that. Just like you cannot swing across a muddy lake. You need to remove the mud and then you can swim across very easily. Trying to swim across a muddy lake, you fail and die / never reach the other end.”

Dear Sri Sanjay,

Yes, mind has to be purified to go beyond mind, as you said so beautifully.
Sri Bhagwan taught that we have lost hold of ourselves and groping in ignorance for guidance. Therefore, the purpose of everything that we are doing, in the spiritual realm, is only to turn us inward to our Self. An in-turned mind cannot remain impure because, the mind as we understand it, functions on account of the ‘I-thought’, which has no independent existence. So, Sri Bhagwan taught that if we know our Self, no evil can come to us. Mind and ego are synonymous. All impurities and evils are mere thoughts which are projected from the ‘I-thought’, that is, the ego. AND THE EGO COMES HOLDING ONLY US, THE SELF. Hence, Sri  Bhagwan taught, “Hold yourself and the ego will vanish”. And with ego, all impurities and evils are sure to vanish.
 “KNOW THYSELF” BY ENQUIRY IS THEREFORE THE MASTER-KEY TO THE ATMA-SWARUPA.” 

Having said as above, dear Sri Sanjay, I wish to also say that one who is not able to in-turn the mind towards the Self, he should take up any spiritual practice which one deems most appropriate for oneself , by His Grace, till one is able to in-turn the mind and engage in Atma-Vichara. It all depends on the seekers. This is how I feel, dear Sri Sanjay Ji.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil


eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3055 on: April 16, 2013, 03:47:20 PM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“She says: Arunachala! As the Heart, the radiant Awareness, Thou alone art the only Being and Truth. There dwells in Thee
a wondrous power, which is naught but Thyself. From that, illumined by Thy light of Awareness, proceed the crowd of dark,
shadowy finely subtle, atom like thoughts. They are set in motion by the whirl of prarabdha (like a film projected on the screen
by a magnifying lens), projected by the lens of mind, illumined by the reflected light of the Atman within through the inner organs,
and without, through the five senses, like eyes. They appear like the pictures of a cinema show, as the gross phenomenon of the world
of names and forms. Oh Hill of Grace ! Whether the world appearances cease to appear or continue to appear, they are nothing
apart from Thee.
Here He says mind shoots from Atman as a wondrous power.”



Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Smt. Kanakammal’s translation of the Stanza 6 is nearly similar to the available translation of the same in different books including the ‘Collected Works’ with the following minor differences:

1. Smt Kanakammal says, ‘There dwells in Thee a wondrous power, which is naught but Thyself’. In ‘Collected Works’ it has been simply translated as, ‘In Thee there is a mysterious power’. So, her translation is better in that it clarifies at the outset that the Wondrous Power that dwells in Him is verily He.

2.  Next, she says in her translation, “From that, illumined by Thy light of Awareness, proceed the crowd of dark, shadowy finely subtle, atom- like thoughts. They are set in motion by the whirl of prarabdha (like a film projected on the screen
by a magnifying lens), projected by the lens of mind, illumined by the reflected light of the Atman within through the inner organs, and without, through the five senses, like eyes. They appear like the pictures of a cinema show, as the gross phenomenon of the world
of names and forms.”
 In ‘Collected Works’, the same has been translated as “From it proceeds the phantom of the mind emitting its latent subtle dark mists, which illumined by Thy Light reflected on them, appear within as though whirling in the vortices of prarabdha, later developing into the psychic world and are projected without as the materiel world and transformed into concrete objects which are magnified by the outgoing senses and move about like pictures in a cinema show.”

So, in her translation, fine, subtle, atom-like thoughts proceed whereas in ‘Collected Works’ mind proceeds emitting its latent subtle dark mists. In her translation therefore these subtle atom-like thoughts are illumined by the reflected light of the Atman, whereas in ‘Collected Works’ subtle dark mists are illumined by His Light of Consciousness reflected on them. So, the meaning and essence in both translations are more or less the same. 
However, Smt Kanakammal makes it clear without ambiguity that these atom-like thoughts are set in motion by the whirl of prarabdha, meaning obviously that only thoughts determined by the prarabdha will proceed. SO, IT IS NOT RANDOM PROCEEDING OF THOUGHTS FROM THE WONDROUS POWER. IT IS WELL CONSIDERED AND WELL DETERMIND BY THE DIVINE REGULATION.  In ‘Collected Works’, it is ‘subtle dark mists, illumined by the reflected light, appear within as though whirling in the vortices of prarabdha.’
In the end of the Stanza, both translations say, “Visible or invisible, O Hill of Grace, without Thee they are nothing.”
In this way, we see that both translations are more or less the same.
Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
 Anil



Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3056 on: April 16, 2013, 05:10:45 PM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. I invariably find Smt Kanakammal's translation to the finest. I have read Osborne's and Prof. Swaminthan's. But I find
kanakkamal's more lucid.

Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3057 on: April 17, 2013, 08:12:25 AM »
THE Lord is in me, the Lord is in you, as life is in every seed. O bande ! put false pride away, and seek for Him within you.
A million suns are ablaze with light, The sea of blue spreads in the sky, The fever of life is stilled, and all stains are washed away ; when I sit in the midst of that world.
Hark to the unstruck bells and drums !
Take your delight in love ! Rains pour down without water, and
the rivers are streams of light. One Love it is that pervades the whole
world, few there are who know it
fully :
They are blind who hope to see it by the light of reason, that reason which is the cause of separation
The House of Reason is very far away !
How blessed is Kabir, that amidst
this great joy he sings within his
own vessel. It is the music of the meeting of soul
with soul ; It is the music of the forgetting of
sorrows ; It is the music that transcends all
coming in and all going forth.

Sage Sri Kabir



eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3058 on: April 17, 2013, 08:33:08 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. If possible, post Sri Arthur Osborne's and Prof. Sri Swaminathan's Translation of the Stanza 6 of the 'Sri Arunachala Ashtakam'. It will be so kind of you.

Pranam,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3059 on: April 17, 2013, 01:14:54 PM »

Dear Anil,

Arthur Osborne has translated Verse 6 of Ashtakam as under:

Thou art Thyself the one being ever aware, as the Self luminous Heart!  In Thee there is a mysterious power (Sakti)
which without Thee is nothing. From it proceeds the phantom of the mind emitting its latent subtle dark mists, which
illumined by Thy light (of consciousness) reflected on them, appear within as thoughts whirling in the vortices of prarabdha,
later developing into the psychic worlds, and projected outwardly as the material world transformed into concrete objects
which are magnified by the outgoing senses and move about like pictures in a cinema show.  Visible or invisible, Oh,
Hill of Grace, without Thee they are nothing!

Prof. K. Swaminathan has translated Verse 6 of Ashtakam as under:

You alone exist, O Heart, the radiance of Awareness.  In You a power mysterious dwells, a power which without You is
nothing.  From it, (this power of manifestation) there proceeds, along with a perceiver, a series of subtle shadowy thoughts
which, lit by the reflected light of mind amid the whirl of prarabdha, appear within as the world perceived by the five senses
as a film projected through a lens.  Whether perceived or unperceived, these (thoughts) are nothing apart from You, O Hill of
Grace!


*****

Arunachala Siva.