Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758059 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #285 on: December 20, 2010, 08:56:54 AM »



Dear Anil,

As you have correctly said that Sri Bhagavan's Presence is even today felt in the Asramam, particularly in Samadhi Hall and also in Old Hall.  He has said before leaving His body:  "Where can I go?  I am here!" 

After Sri Bhagavan's Maha Nirvana, many people, who considered Him as body, left Tiruvannamalai and went to other kshetras or to their native places.  In about a year or so, they all felt that they
have lost their peace and mind has jumped out and creating a greater nuisance.  Around 1950-51, one by one came.  Then they
started feeling the Presence much more vigorously in the Asramam.  In fact, they felt that His body was a hindrance earlier, and now they felt that His Presence as all pervading Space is felt much more poignantly.  Ramana Nagar, where some close devotees were staying had become empty and one by one the houses got
filled up.  Pujas, evening parayana and staying in meditation in the Old Hall brought back the peace that they had lost.  Only Kunju
Swami, Annamalai Swami, Major Chadwick and Arthur Osborne family had continued to live there steadfastly.  Now others also had followed suit.     

Today apart from people who are staying in T'malai and permanent residents, there are at least 50 to 100 visitors, new devotees, are coming everyday.  During Jayanti, Maha Nirvana Day and Mahadeepam day, the crowds are in thousands.



Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #286 on: December 20, 2010, 09:39:09 AM »
Dear sir,

The dreamer is the same person who woke up from the dream in next day. And the same person is telling about his dream. So all these persons are one.
Is it not. Jnanis say, even the wakeful state also is a dream and helps us to wake up during the wakeful time. That what everyone cannot do it.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #287 on: December 20, 2010, 01:12:29 PM »



Dear Ramanaduli,

Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?:  Excepting the fact that the dream
state is short and wakeful state is long, there is no difference.
What is happening in one's dream is as real as what is happening
in wakeful state.  Even a person who has had dreams and then
nicely slept, can say about these states only in wakeful state:
"I had such and such dream; I had slept nicely."  He even said that
the hunger one suffers in the dream has to be quenched only by eating in the dream." 

If a man has taken sumptuous food and goes to sleep, he can dream of hunger.  A millionaire can dream as if he is begging on the streets.  So we, ordinary people know that dream is unreal.
But is real during that state.  For a Jnani even the wakeful state
is a dream, excepting it is a long dream.  The Jnani is in a state of turiya beyond the three, i.e wakeful, dream and deep sleep states.  His state is called ati-jagrat, or sublime wakefulness.  He is simply witnessing all the three states.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #288 on: December 20, 2010, 04:29:50 PM »
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, ji, yes, His Presence has certainly not vitiated after His Mahanirvana but on the contrary, it has become more palpable. Where He will go ? Where He is not that He will go there. He is here, there and everywhere ! We, all the  devotees of Sri Bhagwan experiece daily the truth of this last  Statement of Sri Bhagwan. When one merely sits in the Samadhi Hall, one feels that He is watching you, observing you intently. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #289 on: December 21, 2010, 06:59:50 AM »
  Dear Sri ramanaduli,

   Sri Bhagwan has revealed that the waking state is also a long drawn out dream. He says that we admit the existence of the world in our waking and  the dream states because they are mental creations. They are the product of the mind. It should be noted that the dreamer or the sleeper and the subject of the dream are not necessarily the same individual. Once I dreamt that whenever I raise my hand, snakes eject out of  one of my palms. In a dream, I actually saw them oozing out. And this appeared quite natural to me in that dream. Nothing extraordinary, not something to be taken note of. In deep sleep the mind is  quiescent or merged in the nescience and the world is in the seed form. On waking  the world is manifested with the rise of the ego-mind. Sri Bhagwan says that when there is no mind (impure one) , as in deep sleep, there is no individual.
  We ourselves create a world in the dream and the waking state is only a long dream. Since there is no break, no discontinuity in our existence during waking, sleeping and dreaming states, it  follows that there must be a seer of the three states. It cannot be the ego-mind because it is absent during the deep sleep, but still on waking we say that we slept well. Who experienced it ? The experiencer of the deep sleep state  now identifies with the 'I' in the speaker of the waking state. But this identification is erroneous. The experiencer 'I' of the sleep state is the Self. As Sri Bhagwan said, there no two' Is'.
  From the above discussion it follows that waking state is not different from the dream state except in duration and that our natural state or our true Self, in truth, is what underlies the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping, i.e. the fourth state, the Turiya.

       Thank you,
           Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #290 on: December 21, 2010, 09:15:06 AM »



Dear Anil, Ramanaduli,

Sri Bhagavan is always gazing us with abundant grace.  But we
are not ready to take His Grace and progress in the path of liberation.  He is always seeing us with Eye of Jnana.  He is seeing our Heart. He is prepared for ever to fill the Heart with Jnana.  But we are not seeing Him.  We are seeing with our fleshy eyes the world and its activities.   This is egoism.

Saint Manikkavachagar says:  I shall go to Him. I may not know
the Sivapuram.  The land of liberation.  Where it is?  And  how to go?  But like a blind cow that goes behind the other cows, merely
by crying May...May, I shall go to the Sivapuram by going behind other cows.  This is metaphor for Satsangh.  If we cannot understand the nature of guru, go with others who understand the greatness of guru.  We shall also reach Guru though we are blind,
without the Eye of Jnana.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #291 on: December 21, 2010, 02:27:16 PM »
  Dear Sir, in Verse Four, Ulladu Narpadu, Sri Bhagwan says that ' if one is a form, the world and God will also be so. If one is not a form, who can see their forms and how ? Can what is seen be of a different nature to the eye ? Self, the eye, is the limitless eye. ' Thus, the object seen is of the same nature as the eye with which it is seen. With fleshy eye which has a form, only forms can be seen. Sri Bhagwan while explaining the above Verse says that  the real Eye is the formless, pure and infinite Self, the Consciousness, the Reality, He does not see forms. Regards. Anil     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #292 on: December 21, 2010, 04:57:38 PM »


Verse 4 of Sad Darsnam or ULLadu Narpadu, as you have correctly
pointed out speaks about the worship with forms. 

If the Self has form, the world and God likewise have form.  If the
Self is without form, by whom and how can form of world and God
be seen?  Without the eye, can there be sight or spectacle?  The
Self, the Real Eye is infinite.

Why all of us tend to see the world and god in forms.  It is because
of the body, which has got a form.  The body here includes the five
sheaths also.  This five sheaths, inter-alia include the mind and intellect.  It is because of this mind and intellect, and with the body, we tend to see the god and the world as forms.  So there can
be no world other than without mind.  This is described in Verse 5
of ULLadu Narpadu.

Sri Bhagavan comes step by step.  In Verse 3, He says instead of arguing that the world is true and world is only appearance, leaving the world and knowing the Self is important.  Again, in Verse 4, He
says the world and god are seen as in forms because our body has got a form.  In Verse 5, He says that the body includes five sheaths and this includes mind and intellect.  So, it is the mind and intellect imagine a form for world and god.  In Verse 6, He says
that the world is made up of the five kinds of sense perceptions
and these sense perceptions are due to our five senses, and these five senses are operated with the mind.  So, the mind is the prime subject which one should deal with.  In Verse 7, He says the mind and the world rise together and they fade together in sleep.  In deep sleep, there is neither mind nor world. But still, one is aware of his own Self with the experience of I-am.  This I-amness is reality.  Reality is the formless and nameless absolute.  Knowing this is true knowledge.



Arunachala Siva.   

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #293 on: December 22, 2010, 07:02:15 AM »
  Dear Sir, thank you so much for a very nice and beutiful post.  Pointed ellaboration of ' Atma Vidya ' in Upadasa Saram and Ulladu Narpadu is invaluable to the seekers of Truth and ,therefore, importance of these two great scriptures can never be overstated. Ji, yes, in these two great works, Sri Bhagwan reveals and deals 'Tattva Jnana' step by step, very systematically indeed, as also you have done in your post. Your writing, like the works of the other great devotees of Sri Bhagwan, has been great source of inspiration to the seekers of Truth. Dear sir, will you kindly deal with the rest of verses of Ulladu Narpadu the way you have done from Verse 3 to Verse 7 ? It will be very beneficial for some of us. For instance, at present I am far away from my home for more than 20 days now and I do not have any version of either Upadesa Saram or Ulladu Narpadu with me. And I feel forlorn without them. But at present I cannot help it for a few more days.
  Dear sir, in your post you have stated ' in deep sleep, there is neither mind nor the body. But still, one is aware of his own Self with the experience of I-am. This I-amness is the reality'. Sir, I wish to know whether this great truth also is part of the meaning of the Verse 7 of Ulladu Narpadu ? Regards. Anil   
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #294 on: December 22, 2010, 09:16:25 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  In Verse 7, Sri Bhagavan says that the world and the worldly
knowledge are both rising and curling up when the I rises.  The
one which is the substratum for the world and worldly knowledge
[basically the "I" thought] and which is eternal is the Poornam
{punram in Tamizh} is the Self or Atma within.

Sri Bhagavan elaborates it in further verses and says in Verse 27,
that 'Where the I-thought does not rise, that is the NaturalState in which we are all and this permanent disappearance of I-thought
or ego is called Thannizhappu, i.e egoless state.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #295 on: December 22, 2010, 09:28:19 AM »
  Dear Devotees and Seekers of Truth,

  when a devotee said that there must be a scientific approach to the practice for Atma Vidya, Maha Guru Bhagwan Sri Ramana replied that eschewing unreality is scientific.
  The only permanent Reality is that which is our own true Self. I say I am writing, I am working, I am away from my home , etc. All these are thoughts. The screen or the basis for all these thoughts are ' I-am '. Sri Bhagwan says that   ' I am ' can be hyphenated in all the above mentioned thoughts such as ' I am working' etc. Thus I-AM. ' I am ' is the only abiding and fundamental Reality. God said to Moses, " I AM THAT I AM. Be still and know that I am God."
  Therefore, "I-AM" IS GOD. So " I-AM " said to Moses that ' I-AM ' is GOD.
 Sri Bhagwan says that I know that I am. I cannot deny my existence at any point of time, be it sleep, dream or the waking states. I must be there to even deny my existence. This can be understood by stilling the mind only.

         Thank you,
             Anil 
     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #296 on: December 23, 2010, 06:22:04 AM »
  BHAGWAN ENTHA DONGADU
 ( WHAT A THIEF IS BHAGWAN ? )   

 Sri N.N. Rajan recorded in his diary dtd: 9. 11. 43 that a girl from Andhra wrote a fine letter to Sri Bhagwan in which the last sentence was, ' Bhagwan entha dongadu ? ' ( What a thief is Bhagwan ? ) The English translation of the letter appeared in the ' Sunday Times '. Sri Bhagwan appreciated this letter greatly.

  Sri N. N. Rajan records in his note the same day as following:
 " Bhagwan is a thief because He steals our hearts. In Rudram ( a Sanskrit prayer ), Siva is referred to as the king of thieves since He steals the hearts of His devotees. "

  INDEED, BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA IS THE KING OF THIEVES.

  Thank You,
      Anil
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #297 on: December 23, 2010, 07:19:06 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes. Siva and Sri Bhagavan are thieves.  Krishna is also a thief.
The saint-poets take pleasure in calling Siva/Krishna/Guru as
thief, because they steal the hearts of the devotees.  Sri Bhagavan
also stole the ego of the devotees!  Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar
says in his very first verse, that god who wears a ear ring and a ear stud has stolen my heart.  He is a thief.  Of course, Sri Rudram
says Siva is the king of thieves.  Saint Manikkavachagar says that
in the hearts of truthful devotees, Siva remains as a thief in the form of Truth Itself.

Sri Sundaramurty Swamigal has used the word mad-person to
describe Siva.  He is mad, because, he is wearing cool crescent
moon on his head, cool waters of Ganga on his head, cold bodied
snake on the chest, he is staying chill Himalayas,  and  more importantly he is mad after his devotees and shall do anything for them, as he did in the case of the saint-poet.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #298 on: December 23, 2010, 08:24:51 AM »
  Dear Sir, you have very touchinly dwelt upon ' the thief aspect of the Great Lord Shiva and Sri Bhagwan.' I have a wish to go through the sublime verses of the Saint Sri Manikkavachagar. But I do not know Tamil. Kindly guide me. Regards. Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #299 on: December 23, 2010, 09:22:46 AM »



Dear Anil,

I said in some other post, that Sri Bhagavan is sishya-vith-abahara,
He steals the falsity [the false ego] of the devotees. 

In Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Verse 103, Sri Bhagavan
tells about Arunachala:

"Intending to trap me, you like a spider spread your web of grace,
you imprisoned me and devoured me, O Arunachala!"

Arunachala is Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan is also doing the
same trapping for devouring us, like a spider.



Arunachala Siva.