Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758223 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2805 on: January 07, 2013, 09:08:16 PM »
Quote from Sri cefnbrithdir:
“Our minds are creating objects (which we can detect grammatically) almost all the time. Even "the source" is a created object in our thinking. Yet for a short time we can put our minds in the place where we are aware we have stopped doing this. Perhaps that itself is an object but it seems different.

The force of Bhagavan's Talk 398 came through to me in that he was saying "Start from the position that there are no objects. Because indeed there aren't any. You don't have to think. You do think because you are making the error of thinking there are objects. But there aren't any. Stop this error and go from there".

I am not in the same place as I was earlier now ! But - at the risk of creating another object - it is not forgotten.”


   
Dear cefnbrithdir,

Yes, it is the mind which is creating objects all the time. Objects are unreal. But this understanding is only intellectual. So long as there is the thinker or the seer within, there are objects outside. The reality of the object is of the same degree as the reality of the seer within. Who sees the objects outside of oneself? The source of one who sees objects must be found out. Then Sri Bhagwan says all questions will be solved.
You may say that the seer himself is illusory. Yes. But that illusion must be cast off for the objects to disappear. One may ask, “If  ‘I’ is the illusion, who then will cast off the illusion?”

We must remember that the Enquiry is after all commenced by the ego, this illusory ‘I’.

That is why Sri Bhagwan taught, “The ‘I’ casts off the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains as ‘I’.”

So, ego-mind must vanish. And this will vanish by Enquiry ‘Who am I?’ We must also understand that though “Who am I?” is also a thought and therefore a mental operation to begin with, it destroys all mental operations, INCLUDING ITSELF, just as the stick with which the funeral pyre is stirred is itself reduced to ashes after the pyre and the corpse have been burnt. So also the seer is cast off, and along with it the objects. Only then happens the Realisation of the Self.

Thanks very much,
Anil
   
   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2806 on: January 07, 2013, 09:10:13 PM »
Quote from Sri Jewell:
“1. They will forget the ego-self
Who on golden Sonagiri have found the mother-like master,
Ramana, the true Brahmin,
Shining forth like lightning!

2. The primeval Brahmin incarnated as Love!
Lord who came down to this unique Hill of Light,
Gracious Master Ramana! Untainted One!
Whisper in my ear the way to liberation!

3. The Pure One, whom the five elements could not contain,
Softly settled down at cloud-crested Virupaksha Cave.
He is the Divine Master Ramana
Whose message is so sweet


Long live Aruna, the Great Hill!
Long live the Master’s words and songs!
Long live His earnest devotees!





Dear Sri Jewell,

Yes,  they are wonderful Verses indeed ! Primeval Brahman incarnated as Love on the Golden Sonagiri. The one who found the Mother-like-Master on the Golden Sanagiri, Divine master Sri Ramana, whose message is so sweet, such a one is certain to forget the ego-self. Darkness cannot live when the sun is rising. So also, illusion of the ego-self cannot live when it comes within the gracious Look to the Sadguru who is the Sun of Knowledge shining  forth brightly on the Sonagiri and who causes the Lotus in the Heart-cave of his devotees to bloom.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2807 on: January 08, 2013, 10:31:07 AM »
Dear Devotees,

We should not confuse and mix the relative with the Absolute, and Absolute with the relative. From the perspective of the Absolute, there is only the Self whose nature is Bliss, Happiness, and Peace.  But relatively, there is the mind, there is the ego, which rises from the Self. The body is the necessary adjunct of the Self. This ego is the obstruction to the realisation of our True Atma-swarupa , that is. Our Real Self. So, if the ego is killed, then only the Eternal Self is revealed in all its glory.

So, from the perspective of the Absolute, all this is not for the Self. Sri Bhagwan has taught that it is for the non-Self, that is, the ego, which feels a sense of separation. And so long as there is the sense of separation, there are bound to be afflicting thoughts, which again are non-Self. So only if we regain our Real Source, then only the sense of separation will come to an end, and there will be only Peace, Happiness and Bliss which in truth is our own Swarupa.

A stone is thrown up. It leaves its source and is projected up. It is certain that it would try to come down and is in motion until it regains its source, where it is at rest. So also the waters of the ocean evaporate, form clouds which are moved by winds, condense into water and fall as rain. Coming to the earth, it does not rest but roll down the hill in streams and rivers, until they reach their original source, the ocean. When once they reach the original source, they are at peace.

THUS SRI BHAGWAN TEACHES THAT WHEREEVER THERE IS SENSE OF SEPARATENES  FROM THE SOURCE THERE IS AGITATION AND MOVEMENT UNTIL THE SENSE OF SEPARATENESS  IS LOST.

Relatively, we identify with our body and we think that we are separate from the True Self. THEREFORE, WE MUST REGAIN OUR SOURCE BEFORE THE FALSE IDENTITY CEASES. Then only there will be no agitation, no sorrow, and there will be only Peace, Happiness and Bliss. Till then all this agitation is inevitable.

Thanks very much,
  Pranam,
    Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2808 on: January 09, 2013, 08:33:55 AM »
Devotee: I am, but do not know what or how?
Sri Bhagwan: ‘I’ is always there.
Devotee: Does the ‘I’ undergo any transformation, say in death?
Sri Bhagwan : Who witnesses the transformation?
Devotee: You seem to speak Jnana  yoga. This is Jnana yoga.
Sri Bhagwan : Yes, it is.
Devotee: But surrender is bhakti yoga.
Sri Bhagwan : Both are the same.
After some time the man continued: THEN I HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT I AM CONSCIOUSNESS AND THAT NOTHING OCCURS EXCEPT BY MY PRESENCE.
SRI BHAGWAN: IT IS ONE THING TO CONCLUDE IT BY REASONING AND ANOTHER THING TO BE CONVINCED.
(Talk—434)


Dear Devotees,

It follows from the above conversation that reasoning alone cannot give that conviction that one is Consciousness and nothing occurs except by one’s presence, though intellectual understanding is necessary so that one understands intellectually that God is not to be found outside but is one’s very Self whose nature is Consciousness and therefore one’s true nature is Consciousness. BUT TO BE CONVINCED IS TO REALISE ONESELF AS SUCH. Realisation can happen by diving within searching oneself, finding one’s Swarupa the Self, and merging into it and thereby getting rid of the ego. Until then all talks will only remain what it is—intellectual; and endless argument and discussion will go on endlessly.

Dear devotees, similar is the case with the intellectual understanding that the world is a DREAM.  In the state of ignorance, a man forgets that he is Brahman, who is real, permanent and omnipresent, and deludes himself into thinking that he is a body in the universe which is filled with bodies that are transitory, and labours under that delusion. SUCH A ONE HAS TO BE REMINDED THAT THE WORLD IS UNREAL AND A DELUSION. This is because the vision of such a man who is oblivious of his own Self is dwelling only in external, material universe. SUCH A ONE WILL NOT TURN INWARD INTO INTROSPECTION UNLESS IT IS IMPRESSED UPON HIM THAT ALL THIS EXTERNAL, MATERIAL UNIVERSE IS A DREAM AND THEREFORE UNREAL. When one realises one’s own Self he will know that there is nothing other than his own Self and surely then he will come to look upon the whole universe as his own Self or Brahman.

THAT IS THE REASON WHY SRI BHAGWAN TAUGHT THAT AT THE LEVEL OF SPIRITUAL SEEKER, ONE HAS GOT TO SAY THAT THE WORLD IS A DREAM, AN ILLUSION. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. But the purpose of such intellectual understanding is obvious, that is, the Reality is not outside in the world but  one’s very INNER MOST CORE AND THAT IS TO SOUGHT AND GAINED WITHIN. THEREFORE, UNLESS ONE CONTACTS THE CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN BY VICHARA AND REMAINS  ONE WITH IT, KILLING THE EGO, ALL TALKS ABOUT THE REALITY ARE ONLY SUPERFICIAL, ANALYTICAL AND  INTELLECTUAL.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2809 on: January 09, 2013, 02:46:56 PM »
A reflected image vanishes
When the mirror is taken away;
The ripples on the water vanish
When the wind becomes still.
A man returns to himself
When he awakens from sleep;
Likewise, I have perceived the God and Goddess
By waking from my ego.
When salt dissolves [in the ocean],
It becomes one with the ocean;
When my ego dissolved,
I became one with Shiva and Shakti.


Sri Jnaneshvar


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2810 on: January 09, 2013, 06:06:22 PM »
Sri Anil ji,

What joy, thanks so much, reading any expressions of Jnaneshwar Maharaj brings so much joy.

Jiva Samadhi of Sri Jnaneshwar



॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2811 on: January 09, 2013, 06:31:18 PM »
Dear Anil, Nagaraj,

I am not sure whether this verse has been taken from Amritanubhava. This Amritanubhava is really nectar.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2812 on: January 10, 2013, 07:46:18 AM »
How might one declare
That he was happy to remember himself
After so many days?
Also, if the Self,
Who is, himself, pure Consciousness,
Thinks, “I am conscious of myself; I am He!”
Such knowledge would be bondage.
This kind of knowledge is deplorable,
Since it conceals the original Knowledge
And fosters the illusion of freedom.
Therefore, when the ego of the individual is
destroyed,
And ignorance vanishes,
The four levels of speech,
Which are ornaments of the four bodies, also
vanish.
When ignorance, being utterly dejected,
Enters the fire of Consciousness
Along with her organs,
Nothing remains but the ashes of knowledge.


Similarly, these three,
Chit, Sat, and Ananda,
After awaking the seer to his Self,
Disappear into silence.
Whatever may be said about Him−
He is not that.
It is not possible to speak about His real nature,
Just as it is impossible
For one to measure himself
By taking the measurement of his shadow.
For, when the measurer
Becomes conscious of himself,
He feels ashamed,
And give us trying to measure himself
By his shadow.
Of course, what exists cannot be said not to exist;
But can such existence be called“Existence”?
Can what has become conscious
By destroying unconsciousness
Truly be called “Consciousness”?
In perfect wakefulness
There is neither sleeping nor waking;
Likewise, there is no consciousness
In the pure, absolute Consciousness.
In blissfulness
There is no feeling of unhappiness;
But, can it, for that reason, be called “Bliss”?
Existence vanishes along with non-existence,
Consciousness along with unconsciousness,
And bliss along with misery;
In the end, nothing remains.
Discarding the veil of duality
And all the pairs of opposites,
That alone remains
In Its own blessed state.
If we count It as one,
It appears to be something other
Than the one who counts.
Not from the viewpoint of enumeration,
But from the absolute viewpoint,
It is One.
If It were able
To be something other than Bliss,
It could enjoy bliss.
But, since It is Itself Bliss,
How can It enjoy.
Sri Jnaneshvar



Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Ji, yes. The Verses cited above and in my previous post are from Sri Jnaneshvar’s Amritanubhav, many, many thanks to Sri Nagaraj Ji who was kind enough to mail me the same. Before this I had a copy of the Hindi version of His Jnaneshvari which is said to be Sri Jnaneshvar’s earlier Work.

Ji, yes. Amritanubhav is like an experience of tasting Nectar as the name itself suggests. I do not hesitate to say when I say that except Sri Bhagwan, Sri Jnaneshvar’s Name is the only One which causes my mind to stop and experience the nectarine Atma-swarupa. 

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2813 on: January 10, 2013, 08:35:58 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan said that if there is yearning in the heart, Realisation will be thrust upon you, for the intensity  of yearning will certainly take one to the Self. Jugglery of words IN THIS FORUM apart that the Self-enquiry cannot take one to the Realisation and that it helps stop the non-existent faculties and the Self is revealed, etc., I wish to say that if one is able to remain as the Self, no enquiry is necessary. However, if one moves away from the Self and one is trapped in the illusory and non-existent mind which in truth is bundle of thoughts, one has to enquire and go back to the Self. This is so simple. Why it is being made out to look as if the Enquiry is such a great pursuit involving great intellectual analysis and reasoning is well-nigh impossible for me to understand.
DEAR DEVOTEES, I FEEL THAT WE MUST KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE.

Who and what is this ‘I’? Sri Bhagwan taught that  it is neither the body nor the mind. SO, ENQUIRING INTO IT AND FINDING OUT FOR ONESELF IS , IN MY VIEW, THE RIGHT WAY.

I wonder that we so easily forget Sri Bhawan’s basic Teaching and start quarrelling over mere words.
Sri Bhawan said, “Do Self-enquiry. Ask who am I? FIND OUT WHO YOU REALLY ARE.”
This is the only thing to do and rest other are mere jugglery of words.
Therefore, when one intensely enquire ‘WHO AM I?’ THE INTENSITY OF ONE’S ENQUIRY GOES ON DEEPENING  AND SO ALSO THE YEARNING IS DEEPENED WHICH ULTIMATELY TAKES ONE TO THE SELF, that is, one is rid of the illusion of ‘I’, and the real Self is revealed.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2814 on: January 10, 2013, 06:25:47 PM »
Dear Devotees,

Intellect and reasoning are double edged sword and therefore can cut either way.
Intellect is the tool of the ego. Ego can never will and plot its own doom. It will keep on devising ways and means—gross and subtle— to perpetuate its own hegemony. 
Reason can never reason itself out.
Therefore, an spiritual aspirants, in my view, need to be ware.


Self and Grace are one and the same.
Faith is Grace realised and therefore rises in one from within. It is innate and inexplicable.

SELF
GRACE
FAITH

Self is ever there, as It ever is.
Grace is ever there.
Faith is ever there.
(In subtle and transcendental aspects all three are synonyms.)


When mind and reason subside, working of Grace becomes evident, manifesting Itself as Faith which leads one to communion with Divine or the Self, culminating in the Realisation of the Self, that is, the Self is revealed. The only purpose of reason and intellect in spiritual life is to recognise the Higher Power and subside  to allow the Grace and Faith to take over.   

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2815 on: January 10, 2013, 08:44:19 PM »
Anil,

Quote
"Faith is Grace realised and therefore rises in one from within. It is innate and inexplicable"

Quote
When mind and reason subside, working of Grace becomes evident, manifesting Itself as Faith which leads one to communion with Divine or the Self, culminating in the Realisation of the Self, that is, the Self is revealed. The only purpose of reason and intellect in spiritual life is to recognise the Higher Power and subside  to allow the Grace and Faith to take over

Wonderful post anil bhai.Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2816 on: January 11, 2013, 07:34:06 AM »
Q. I meditate neti-neti (not this-not that)
Sri Bhagwan : No-that is not mediation. Find the source. You must reach the source WITHOUT FAIL. The false ‘I’ will disappear and the real ‘I’ will be realised.  The former cannot exist apart from the latter.

Dear Sri Ravi


Intellect by reasoning and discrimination can eliminate all the objects in the universe. It can even eliminate the body as not ‘I’, the prana as not ‘I’, but that is as far as it can go. It can never eliminate the subject, that one irreducible datum of our experience. The subject himself cannot be eliminated by intellectual processes. Sri Bhagwan has clearly said that that the Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence, all the scriptures mention this intellectual process (neti-neti) to point out the Truth and to guide the seeker to it.   

Therefore, the one who eliminates all the not ‘I’ cannot eliminate the ‘I’. Even when we say ‘I am not this, I am That’, ‘I’ is inescapable. It is for this reason that Sri Bhagwan taught that SEEKING THE SOURCE IS THE ONLY PRACTICABLE COURSE WE CAN ADOPT TO REALISE THE SELF. Since the ego cannot exist apart from the Self, holding the one which cannot be discarded, WE REACH ‘ITI’ (THAT WHICH IS).

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil 
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2817 on: January 11, 2013, 08:09:55 AM »
Dear Anil,

Nice. The "I" (Aham) can never be eliminated. The Seer alone remains. Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 2 describes this
beautifully. It is an experience of Sri Bhagavan Himself.

Arunachala Siva.   

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2818 on: January 11, 2013, 04:10:24 PM »


Dear Anil

I do understand what you are saying. My last post stressing Bhagavan's Talk 398  -  that there are no objects and when you stop the error of thinking there are objects you will stop thinking -  was to try to better understand the mind processes going on in vichara.

Bhagavan said Find the Source; You must reach the Source.  In Nan Yar he talked about scrutinising the source of thoughts.

But differences  in thinking, are  subtle. Could I  be treating the source as another  object - albeit as  the Psalmist poetically put it  " a very wide place". 

  "Scrutinising a source" and attempting  (with difficulty) to create no mental objects  (essentially to cease all thought)  seems somewhat different. If anything there is more Subject in the latter, yet my guess is that this is another "armlock" which is inevitably temporary when let go,   whereas you are submerged in scrutinising a source or if not submerged able to be mindful of it as you go about your  business.

It seems more relevant  when sadhana/vichara is a struggle rather than "coming upon you".

I would be grateful for any comments.




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2819 on: January 11, 2013, 05:36:21 PM »
Dear Anil,

I agree with you. It is better to turn the mind inward, whenever thoughts come to our mind, than to try to kill the thoughts.
It will come like waves. We cannot stop the waves. Let the waves keep coming and going. We shall keep the mind in close
proximity to the Self.

For Sri Bhagavan it was easy and that is why He said 'we can kill thoughts and then take charge of the fort.  For people like
us, where it will be a 1000 thousand year battle with thoughts. Better to turn the mind inward and be quiescent in the Self.
Let any number of thoughts come and we shall not associate with them.

Arunachala Siva.