Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755804 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2790 on: January 06, 2013, 08:53:30 AM »
Quote from Sri cefnbrithdir:
“"There is only the Self. Thoughts can function only if there are objects. But there are no objects.
The habit makes us believe that it is difficult to cease thinking. If the error is found out, one would not be fool enough to exert oneself unnecessarily by way of thinking " Talks 398.
This has really got through to me. No objects. Just that.
And we know when our minds are (unnecessarily/foolishly/harmfully) trying to create them.
We may be able to "step back" and help those creating them perhaps more obviously than ourselves - but only when we are secure in that Reality, when we continue to know there are still no objects.”



Dear Sri cefnbrithdir,

I am sorry for my delayed response to your post.
Yes, Sri Bhagwan has taught that the object is unreal. But we should also understand that all the ‘drisya jagat’ (the objective world) including the ‘EGO’ IS THE OBJECT.  Yes, as Sri Bhagwan said in Talk—398, thoughts can function only if there are objects. So, if there are objects thoughts will function. Therefore, how the objects would go away for thoughts not to function?

Ego or individuality, WHICH IS THE RELATIVE SUBJECT, alone is the perceiver of thoughts and objects.  IT FOLLOWS THAT SO LONG AS THERE IS THIS RELATIVE SUBJECT, THERE ARE THE OBJECTS ALSO.  Therefore, to effect the disappearance of the object, relative subject , namely the mind, first must be eliminated. The mind alone is the creator of the false subjects and the objects and is the cause of all the dualistic idea and is therefore the cause of wrong notion of the ‘limited self’ and looking at the body as ‘I’, leading to misery consequent on such erroneous ideas.

Hence, Sri Bhagwan taught that the source of the mind must be sought so that it is merged in the Source and what remains is the Real Self. If mind is irrevocably merged in the Source, then only one can remain secure in the Reality as you said, not otherwise. That is why Sri Bhagwan stressed on the Self-enquiry which is one infallible method to trace the source of the ego-mind, for on doing so the ego-mind will merge in the Source resulting in the abidance in the Self which is Be-ing, and not this or that. That is the end of sadhana or practice, and for such a one alone doing is at an end. 


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil



Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2791 on: January 06, 2013, 09:36:17 AM »
nonduel/friends,

Quote
"The mind is a scoundrel, it creates situations of conflict and most importantly it FEEDS on it"

Very true.This is why sri Ramakrishna says:
"It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases
are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You
may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up
tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as
you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.'
The 'I' that
feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause
acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception".


Again he says:
"It is very good to look on God as the Master
and oneself as His servant. Further, you see, people speak of the waves as belonging to the
Ganges; but no one says that the Ganges belongs to the waves. The feeling, 'I am He', is not
wholesome.
A man who entertains such an idea, while looking on his body as the Self,
causes himself great harm. He cannot go forward in spiritual life; he drags himself down.
He deceives himself as well as others. He cannot understand his own state of mind".

This is not to say that the master does not realize the importance and worthiness of the teachings of Ashtavakra samhita and yoga vasishta which are full of affirmations of the true identity of the Self as the Sole Reality.It is only those who are mature that can pursue it exclusively as a sadhana.One cannot pursue it just because it is LOGICAL and RATIONAL and ONE LIKES it.If we look around today,advaita is a buzz word everywhere and everyone wants to be the Self,as it seems to be the logical and easy thing to do-it seems to absolve oneself from having to assume any responsibility for whatever that happens in one's life or that of others in this world.Just treat everything as a Dream and realize the 'Truth'.This gives a sort of 'Freedom' which is dubious.

Life is to be Lived fully and holistically-and any sort of a premature withdrawal will only serve to prolong the ordeal.The Blossoming and the ripening has to happen in its own time.

Namaskar.

Sri Ravi, very reasonable and well-grounded post! I like it! Thank you!
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2792 on: January 06, 2013, 09:39:00 AM »
Quote from Sri nonduel:
“The mind is a scoundrel, it creates situations of conflict and most importantly it FEEDS on it.

Please understand that Vichara isn't a "doing" but a "Being".
I repeat...it isn't a "DOING" but a "BEING".

To BE, there is no need to acquire anything. Everyone is conscious of being without having to "do" something to be. In fact you cannot escape this beingness!

You can certainly forget about it by searching everywhere, but realize at the same time, that you are only keeping yourself away from it.

Heated discussions like this thread are a good example. But it can also be a gift if one stops and tries to learn from it. Grace flows from one to another in many differents ways, always surging from the one un-divided SELF.”




Dear Sri nonduel,
Pranam,

Yes, the mind is scoundrel, it creates situation of conflicts and feeds on them. It first must be destroyed by seeking its source, as Sri Bhagwan taught. On doing so alone, the mind will  merge in the source and then only one can remain in Self-abidance, which is Be-ing. When mental movements are off, that is, when the mind is subsided, the Vichara is an inner quest. Then one understands that Vichara is ‘being’ and not doing, which on further pushing leads one to the pure State of Be-ing.


Therefore, I feel that not seeking and merging the mind in its source, and instead engaging in  endless heated discussion and arguments, seeking to reach that state of ‘being’ by sheer reasoning, is sheer waste of time. For, as Sri Ramakrishna Param Hamsa taught that one may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still ‘I’ will come back. One may cut the peepal tree from its root today, but a sprout will sure spring up tomorrow. Therefore, the only remedy is to merge the mind in its Source irrevocably through Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan,which is complete self-erasement or self-surrender, or by Path of Love and devotion culminating in complete self-surrender.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2793 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:53 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
"It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases
are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. ”

“The feeling, 'I am He', is not
wholesome. A man who entertains such an idea, while looking on his body as the Self,
causes himself great harm. He cannot go forward in spiritual life; he drags himself down.
He deceives himself as well as others. He cannot understand his own state of mind".



“This is not to say that the master does not realize the importance and worthiness of the teachings of Ashtavakra samhita and yoga vasishta which are full of affirmations of the true identity of the Self as the Sole Reality.It is only those who are mature that can pursue it exclusively as a sadhana.One cannot pursue it just because it is LOGICAL and RATIONAL and ONE LIKES it.If we look around today,advaita is a buzz word everywhere and everyone wants to be the Self,as it seems to be the logical and easy thing to do-it seems to absolve oneself from having to assume any responsibility for whatever that happens in one's life or that of others in this world.Just treat everything as a Dream and realize the 'Truth'.This gives a sort of 'Freedom' which is dubious.”


Dear Sri Ravi,

Thanks very much, sir, for quoting Sri Param Hamsa’s Teaching with regard to “I am He “ bhavana or feeling. Sri Bhagwan used somewhat less harsher words: He said that the text is not meant for thinking “I am Brahman or I am He or am That, and that. “I” is already Brahman, therefore, one should trace the meaning and implication of the above text and abide as ‘I’. Therefore, in my view, the implication of the Teaching of both the Great masters with regard to such meditation is the same.

Indeed, one who entertains such idea, while looks on his body as the Self, causes himself and others great harm. There is no doubt about that. He cannot understand his own state of mind.  It is true that our sacred scriptures, such as, Ashtavakra Samhita, Ribhu Gita, Yoga Vashista and the Sacred Vedanta are full of such affirmations such as “I am the Brahama” and establishes identity of the jivas with the Self which is again taught to be the Sole Reality, it is certainly not for exclusive sahanas, as such, by the immature sadhaks.  This is not wholesome as Sri Param Hamsa taught.

Moreover, looking on the body as the Self and treating everything as dream with the smug feeling of freedom galore, I am afraid such a one, instead of advancing in the spiritual field, not only runs the risk of dragging himself down, but even may end up as deranged person. For this reason, I have learnt, that such sadhanas were taught exclusively to a mature few, by the Guru Himself, to be pursued in a secluded place like in a hermitage.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil 

nonduel

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2794 on: January 06, 2013, 05:10:35 PM »
A few words to clarify the question of being and doing..

Nobody needs to do anything to be aware that he is, to be aware of his beingness. You all know that you "are" without "doing" anything.

The doing is done by the ego called "nonduel". All the doing is happening as per the script and the vasanas.

To accept the doing, one has to accept that he is this ego, this mind, this "me"...that he is this body!

I AM NOT THE BODY, I AM NOT THE MIND!

Sri Nisargadatta said that all the "happening" is only entertainment. Do not accept the mind's doing.

Just rest in the silence, the peace of the Self. Just stay in this awareness of being. Just this!
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2795 on: January 06, 2013, 05:25:00 PM »
Dear nonduel,

Excellent. We are doing everything but we are not able to sit still, just BE. One can climb Everest, go to Space, one can do magic,'
one can win Olympics, but one can never still in Silence, JUST BE.  It is all mind's play. We cannot still the mind and push it in
the Self. Sri Bhagavan explains this in Arunachala Pancharatnam, Verse 3.  With a pure mind, find out where from this ego-mind
arises, go deep and find out the true nature of Self, dwell in that Source of this mind like rivers merge with ocean.

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2796 on: January 06, 2013, 05:39:00 PM »
Friends,

Lets accept our lives and live it nicely, by living our lives in the dharmic way, we truly expend our vasanas, and allow the natures way to prevail.

It is the will of Self that our life continue, with the light of Self, we ought to live our life well, which station we are in.

Trying to Just be is ignorance.

There is a very beautiful song from Tamiz movie penned by Kannadasan:

(1) satti suttadhadaa,
kai vittadhadaa

The mud pot got baked,
hence it left the hand  (The clay of the mud pot no longer sticks in the hand , and hence leaves it)

(2) buththi kettadhadaa
nenjai thottadhadaa

Similarly the intellect ( mind) has collapsed ( matured)
Wisdom(heart) has dawned in me , ( The mind no longer wants the materialistic needs)

(3) naalum nadandhu mudindha pinnal
nalladhu kettadhu therindhadhadaa

only after all the things happened,
I knew which are good and which are bad.

(4) paadhi manadhil dheyvam irundhu paarththu kondadhadaa
meedhi manadhil mirugam irundhu aatti vaiththadhadaa

In one half of my heart the god was present and took care,
however in the remaining half the beast was present and made me dance to its tunes.

(5) aatti vaiththa mirugam indru adangivittadhadaa

Now the beast to whose tunes I was dancing to , has diminished ( subsided)

(6) amaidhi theivam mulu manadhil koyil kondadhadaa

as a result , the whole heart is now taken over by the silent god and transformed it into a temple  ( and peace remains)

(7) aaraavaara peygalellaam odivittadhadaaa
alayamani osai nenjil koodivittadhadaa

All the loud demons ( materialistic desires , greed, show off etc ) have run away,
The sound of the temple bell has filled my heart ( the path to god and eternity has dawned into me).

(8)dharma dhevan kovililae oli thulangudhadaa

At the temple of  lord of dharma (God)  , I can see the light ignited

(9)manam saanthi saanthi saanthi yendru oyvu kondadhadaa

The heart is saying peace , peace , peace and is getting freed from anxiety

(10) erumbuth thoalai uriththu paarkka yaanai vandhadhadaa
naan idhayath thoalai uriththup paarkka nyaanam vandhadhadaa

when the skin of ant  was peeled , an elephant emerged ,
In the same way I peeled my heart and saw knowledge emerge ( enlightenment)

(11) pirakkum munne irundha ullam indru vandhadhadaa

today I am getting the (state of) heart , that was , before my birth (pure)

(12) irandha pinne varum amaidhi vandhu vittadhadaa

I am experiencing the silence that comes after death

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2797 on: January 06, 2013, 07:01:50 PM »
Anil/nonduel/nagaraj/hari/friends,
Here is a wonderful excerpt from 'I am That':
Q: The Yoga of living, of life itself, we may call the Natural Yoga (nisarga yoga). It reminds me of the Primal Yoga (adhi yoga), mentioned in the Rig-Veda which was described as the marrying of life with mind.
M: A life lived thoughtfully, in full awareness, is by itself Nisarga Yoga.
Q: What does the marriage of life and mind mean?
M: Living in spontaneous awareness, consciousness of effortless living, being fully interested in one's life -- all this is implied.
Q: Sharada Devi, wife of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, used to scold his disciples for too much effort. She compared them to mangoes on the tree which are being plucked before they are ripe. 'Why hurry?' she used to say. 'Wait till you are fully ripe, mellow and sweet.'
M: How right she was! There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realisation and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka, however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity.

Our Holy Mother Sri Sarada devi's birthday as per indian calendar was on 4th january ,the public celebrations at Sri Ramakrishna Mutt,chennai is taking place today.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2798 on: January 06, 2013, 07:05:52 PM »
Nagaraj,
Wonderful song of kavingyar kannadasan in his inimitable style -simple ,profound and so True!
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2799 on: January 06, 2013, 07:16:05 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Some of these songs by KaNNadasan are wonderul. I remember one comic incident in my life. My grandmother, (mother's mother)
had an eye operation for cataract and those days there were planting of intra-ocular-lense.  So after so many days of bandage,
she had to wear thick glasses. Meantime, one day, when she was convalescing the rado blared, 'KaNNai koduthavane paRithu
koNdAndi, kaNNai koduthavane partihu koNdAndi.... The grandmother got angry and told my uncle, Vaithi, please stop that saniyan!

Arunachala Siva. 

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2800 on: January 06, 2013, 07:21:33 PM »
Dear Anil

Thank you for your reply to my post. It is me that should apologise for being unaware of what was going on.  I am pleased  we are now in a different place.

I posted because I went through a 24-36 hr  period of feeling I had really glimpsed what Bhagavan was saying about objects as a help to vichara.

It was terribly simple - a clarification  that this understanding of object can  be helped by considering its  grammatical meaning.

This seemed like  an aide to discrimination; of what we are doing with our minds in vichara; of where our minds should try to stay. That is all we can do  - the rest is grace in its own time.

Our minds are creating objects (which we can detect grammatically) almost all the time. Even "the source" is a created object in our thinking. Yet for a short time we can put our minds in the place where we are aware  we have stopped doing this. Perhaps that itself is an object but it seems different.

 The force of Bhagavan's Talk 398 came through to me in that he was saying "Start from the position that there are no objects. Because indeed there  aren't any. You don't have to think. You do think because you are making the error of thinking there are objects. But there aren't any. Stop this error and go from there".

I am not in the same place as I was earlier now ! But  - at the risk of creating another object - it is not forgotten.

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2801 on: January 06, 2013, 08:03:23 PM »
Dear Friends, I will agree with nonduel that Being doasnt imply any Doing. It just Is,there is no effort there. Any effort,or like Sri Nagaraj said Trying,implies Doing. To Be we dont need to Do anything,we already Are. Any striving is effort of the Ego,the Doer. When we drop that,we Are what we Are. So,we only need to let go the Doing,the Doer,to drop any effort,to drop all,and what is left is Being. Just Be means just that,i believe,dont be doer,coz the doer is illusion. With love and prayers,

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2802 on: January 07, 2013, 04:32:00 AM »
DECAD OF LIKE GOLD


1. They will forget the ego-self
Who on golden Sonagiri have found the mother-like master,
Ramana, the true Brahmin,
Shining forth like lightning!

2. The primeval Brahmin incarnated as Love!
Lord who came down to this unique Hill of Light,
Gracious Master Ramana! Untainted One!
Whisper in my ear the way to liberation!

3. The Pure One, whom the five elements could not contain,
Softly settled down at cloud-crested Virupaksha Cave.
He is the Divine Master Ramana
Whose message is so sweet.

4. Permeating earth, air, fire, water and ether,
And transcending number, limit, and all doubt
Is Ramana, my beloved,
My eye, my very life!

5. Gracious God shining forth like a never-setting ever-rising Sun,
The perfect Master, leading to Liberation
Is the Fair One, the Lord Eternal,
Dwelling on Aruna Hill!
6. Ramana not only sports cheerfully
On the Hill of Light,
Which formerly eluded the vigorous search of Brahma and Vishnu,
But also fills the hearts of all beings!

7. He grants the prayers of anyone
Who, with humility, asks,
“O Ramana Maharshi, grant me thy grace!”
And he showers his grace abundantly.

8. His rhymes overflow with bliss.
Undoubtedly he is a sage enlightening the world!
Lord Ramana who is before us, is the very incarnation of Siva,
With Ganga ever-flowing.

9. Devotees from all over the world seek him,
Call out to him and worship him as “Lord!” “Master!”
They run up to pay homage to this living, liberated, blissful, silent Ramana,
Who is the Supreme Being-Knowledge-Bliss!
10.Long live Ramana, the Great Master!


Long live Aruna, the Great Hill!
Long live the Master’s words and songs!
Long live His earnest devotees!


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2803 on: January 07, 2013, 09:04:28 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“M: Living in spontaneous awareness, consciousness of effortless living, being fully interested in one's life -- all this is implied.
Q: Sharada Devi, wife of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, used to scold his disciples for too much effort. She compared them to mangoes on the tree which are being plucked before they are ripe. 'Why hurry?' she used to say. 'Wait till you are fully ripe, mellow and sweet.'
M: How right she was! There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realisation and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka, however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity.”



Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji. Yes. Perseverance is the key in any spiritual sadhana. Striving hard and thereby straining the body and the mind excessively is sure to prove one’s undoing in spiritual life. Not hurrying therefore and living a natural life with spontaneous awareness is the right way. I have also understood that if one does not derive joy from meditation, or one does not meditate joyfully, and whose face remains drawn and the mind vague and blank, due to too much effort, that is no meditation at all. How simply and significantly the Mother says! ”Wait till you are fully ripe, mellow and sweet. Why hurry?” Meaning and deep import of this percept must be understood by all sadhakas irrespective of paths they are following, be it path of Knowledge or Bhakti or whatever.

 Dear sir, I feel that pride in one’s spiritual achievement is proof enough that one has not achieved anything.

Thanks very much, sir, for a very beautiful post.
Pranam,
  Anil 


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2804 on: January 07, 2013, 09:06:42 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj”


There is a very beautiful song from Tamiz movie penned by Kannadasan:

The mud pot got baked,
hence it left the hand (The clay of the mud pot no longer sticks in the hand , and hence leaves it)

similarly the intellect ( mind) has collapsed ( matured)
Wisdom(heart) has dawned in me , ( The mind no longer wants the materialistic needs)

only after all the things happened,
I knew which are good and which are bad.

In one half of my heart the god was present and took care,
however in the remaining half the beast was present and made me dance to its tunes.

Now the beast to whose tunes I was dancing to , has diminished ( subsided)

as a result , the whole heart is now taken over by the silent god and transformed it into a temple ( and peace remains)

All the loud demons ( materialistic desires , greed, show off etc ) have run away,
The sound of the temple bell has filled my heart ( the path to god and eternity has dawned into me).



At the temple of lord of dharma (God) , I can see the light ignited



The heart is saying peace , peace , peace and is getting freed from anxiety



when the skin of ant was peeled , an elephant emerged ,
In the same way I peeled my heart and saw knowledge emerge ( enlightenment)


today I am getting the (state of) heart , that was , before my birth (pure)



I am experiencing the silence that comes after death:


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

This is a wonderful song. It is incredible that Sri Kannadasan penned this song of such profound import and spiritual percept for a movie.” The mud pot has baked, intellect has collapsed, loud demons have run away, and therefore, heart is saying peace,peace, peace and is getting freed from anxieties!”  Thanks very much.

Pranam,
 Anil