Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756359 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2685 on: December 19, 2012, 11:20:12 PM »
Anil/friends,
Sri Bhagavan 's self-enquiry is inquiring into 'i' and not attention on 'I AM' or 'I AM Brahman'.It is enquiring the very premise of the ego sense and to trace it to its non existence ,which is its dissolution in the Heart.
The Path of Bhakti is to admit the insignificance of the 'i' with the clear knowledge that it is only a dummy.The presence of the dummy does not make Bhakti dualistic as the learned Intellect imagines.
Sri Bhagavan recommended this to even villagers and common folks to investigate into the very existence(actually non existence !)
of the 'i'(mind).This needs to be seen to its 'logical' completion(This is for those who value Reason! :)) before one goes about prattling what this 'I AM' or 'I AM Brahman' is.The 'I AM' will not go to great lengths to explain how it is 'I AM'.it is 'i exist' that will do so!this 'i' is to be inquired into.
I appreciate that Anil Bhai is fully aware of this 'nan yar' and is diligently sticking to it.An iota of this practice is better than tons of theory.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2686 on: December 20, 2012, 07:25:30 AM »
udai,
Please attend to your 'i'. I am not disputing any 'concepts' or 'ideas' as you seem to be putting it.
All that I am saying is that this attempt to clarify things for others is needless and springs from your wrong perception that all those who do not spill their beans here like you do in an unabashed way, are wallowing in some desert land of bondage!
You may share what enthuses you and that is quite fine;but I find that it seems to be overtly concerned with illuminating 'ideas' for others.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2687 on: December 20, 2012, 10:22:28 AM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“Bhakti and Self enquiry are one and the same.
The Self of Advaitins is the God of Bhaktas.”

Quote from Sri Ravi:
“An iota of this practice is better than tons of theory.”



Dear Devotees,

When, in a trice, I became aware of the Guru Tattva, within my heart, I realised, rather vaguely initially, that this little (i) which I understand as my ‘self’, is a dummy. I then gradually understood that the entire seemingly concrete universe is engulfed and penetrated by one Consciousness. I, almost simultaneously became aware of the Presence of Sri Bhagwan, even though I knew only that a Great Sage, named Bhagwan Sri Ramana, lived somewhere in South India. I had heard from a friend that He understood the language of even the animals and birds and used to talk with them. How I became aware of His Presence sitting one evening, 2005, in the veranda of my house, in Patna, Bihar, with my wife and daughter, is a mystery even for me. It is a mystery even for me because even to this day I am not able to clearly say whether it was tangible or intangible, whether it for real or just imagined. BUT BY THEN IT DIDN’T MATTER. I was so greatly enthused and excited that gradually old values and priorities gave way to finding only Him—INSIDE AND OUTSIDE. You cannot imagine with what great difficulty I managed to procure some books on Him, after searching for them in almost every book stall and every book-depot in Patna. So, then I gradually knew about Him everything I wanted to know.

But, the question of this little ‘my self’ remained. I didn’t know then what to do with it. I knew for sure only one thing—my life is nothing without Him, and with this knowledge I was flooded with love and unbelievable devotion for Him which knew no bounds.

THEREFORE, I CAME TO KNOW MYSELF AS A BHAKTA FIRST. But the question of this dummy (i) remained, sometimes subdued, sometimes reverting back to old ways.

Only after a week or so after I became aware of His Presence, I intuitively came to know that although that which I understand as insignificant (i) holds the key and I must ask ‘Who am I then?’ AND HENCE BEGAN THE ENQUIRY. That is how I became a bhakta and a seeker, without being exposed to metaphysical and philosophical contents of both of them. Then it didn’t matter. However, I visited Sri Ramanasramam several times and purchased all the books that I considered essential for me. And that is how I slowly but surely came to know the so called metaphysical and philosophical contents of both of them.

Dear devotees, Bhakti is Grace and the Jnana Mata. If Her children need the Enquiry, She enables them to come to know about it, rather one is graced with the requisite knowledge, although one may think that one has reached it with his own effort.

By Enquiry and through His Teaching, I became aware that the Guru, God and the Self are One and the Same. What I understand as God is, in truth, the Self. SRI BHAGWAN GRACED ME, A COMPLETE NOVICE, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT GOD AND THE SELF IS VERILY THE TRUE ‘I’ OR THE PURE ‘I AM’.

Dear  devotees, thereafter, I  never distinguished Bhakti from Jnana  and Jnana from Bhakti. AND FOR ME ATLEAST, ATMA-VICHARA AS TAUGHT BY HIM IS BOTH JNANA AND BHAKTI AT THE SAME TIME.

AND, THEREFORE, I REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO SAY WHEN I SEE SOME HEATED DEBATE GOING ON JNANA AND BHAKTI IN THIS GREAT FORUM. I ONLY THEN FEEL THAT THIS IS SHEER WASTAGE OF INVALUABLE TIME, WHICH COULD BE UTILISED FOR PRACTICE.   

YES, INDEED, AN IOTA OF PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN TONS OF THEORY. THIS IS THE CONCLUSION.


Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil

 

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2688 on: December 20, 2012, 10:27:22 AM »
Dear anil,

I am happy to note your spiritual progress in the path of Sri Ramana and also I am thankful that you have said in sum and
substance about the aspects of bhakti and jnana being together as the two sides of the same coin.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2689 on: December 20, 2012, 11:38:48 AM »
Anil,
You are truly blessed.Happy to read what you have posted.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2690 on: December 20, 2012, 02:22:32 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Ravi,

Thanks very much, sir.  Bhagwan Sri Ramana is my Sadguru, God, and the Self.  But I have also learnt many things from Sri Subramanian Sir. I shall ever remain grateful to him. My many doubts and confusions have gone away of their own accord when I had prolonged and earnest discussion with him under this very thread. I am grateful to him because he never felt tired and or got bored by my queries and observations and patiently heard me and answered as he felt fit. I am also grateful to Sri Ravi for his cryptic and insightful observations which helped and are still helping me a great deal in stabilising my understanding. His quotes from Bhagwan Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa exposed me for the first time to what in practical terms Bhakti means (although I had previously read a few volumes from Sri Vivekananda works). They indeed have helped me a lot to understand Sri Bhagwan’s  Teaching on Surrender. I wish to add that a synthesis of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching on Surrender and Sri Paramhmsa’s Teaching on Pure Bhakti gave me a rather new insight to understand even Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching on Atma-Vichara better.     

Therefore, both of you are also my gurus.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
 Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2691 on: December 20, 2012, 02:27:48 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

Why dear friend, why are you so much concerned? Please take it easy. Now, please tell me, who is he who is so much concerned about why he is not being understood by others in the forum?

You are well versed in the Vedanta and other scriptures and there is no doubt about that. You have a critical bent of mind which naturally cannot accept anything on its face value. You indeed are an invaluable asset for this forum.  We always look forward to learn something from you as we do from Sri Subramaniaan Sir and Sri Ravi in this forum.

We do not want to lose you again and I am afraid this may happen again. Therefore, it is the request of this friend of yours to continue to post your understanding and insights, which comes out of your heart, without getting concerned whether they are being understood by others as you want them to be understood.  If there is some misunderstanding, kindly clarify them with love and care but please do not try to force them, for they are sure to create further misunderstanding.  This way I am sure we all will be benefitted from your ability for critical analysis.

The above is a suggestion by an earnest and loving friend of yours, which I hope would not cause any hurt.
Dear Sri Tushnim, tomorrow I wish to post under this thread my understanding with regard to meditation on mahavakyas, stages in its practice, and how it leads ultimately to the Realisation of the Self. Your understanding and insights regarding the same will be most welcome, which I am sure will clear some of the confusions and doubts about it. For now, I can say only this that is certainly not the same as the Atma-Vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2692 on: December 20, 2012, 02:49:11 PM »
Quote
Now, please tell me, who is he who is so much concerned about why he is not being understood by others in the forum?

 :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2693 on: December 20, 2012, 02:50:28 PM »
Dear anil,

There are a few things one should remember when reading Sri Bhagavan's teachings:

1. His main plank is Atma Vichara. Surrender was recommended by Him as a concession. In fact, He cautioned devotees not
to take the surrender as something easy. He said total surrender, in its finest form is as difficult as Atma Vichara.

2.  His advices were different for different devotees to suit the latters' state of maturity. For some He said: You continue Japa,
Dhyana etc., (But He had said that all this will lead to self inquiry one day). For some He said solitude is necessary. Because,
He knew that the particular person's mind was always chattering, and restless and he needed solitude. For others who were
mature, He said solitude was not necessary. One should discern the circumstances under which the replies had been given.
e.g. He said to Dilip Kumar Roy, who was an excellent singer, 'Your singing god's praise will alone liberate you. But when Devaraja
Mudaliar asked later, 'Can I also chant Tiruppugazh and Tiruvachakam instead of self inquiry? He replied: No. For you it is only
self inquiry or surrender. Thus His replies were varied. But one should remember that all these will lead to Atma Vichara one day.

3. Again and again He also said that Bhakti and Jnana are one and the same. This does not mean ordinary bhakti, bhakti of highest
order, which He summarized as Nin Ishtam En Ishtam, Your wish is My wish. That is the level of bhakti one should achieve and in
that case, it will be as good as Jnana. Most of the Bhakta Vijayam devotees did only Bhakti but that was the highest bhakti. So
also was Manikkavachagar's bhakti and Nammazhwar's bhakti. These are giving benefits as much as Jnana Vichara. Since ultimately
the ego is killed in these high types of bhakti and egoless state is abidance in the Self.

Arunachala Siva.       

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2694 on: December 20, 2012, 11:06:50 PM »
udai,
You need to check the meaning of the verse 31 that you have quoted.In the Tamizh 'ulladu narpadu' verse 29,Sri Bhagavan clearly states:
Quote
seeking the Source of the 'I' with in-turned mind and without uttering the word 'I', ALONE is the jnana way(neRi in tamizh). Other than this ,to think  'I am not this; I am That' may be an aid, is this enquiry?(BIG QUESTION MARK by Sri Bhagavan)

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2695 on: December 21, 2012, 06:54:57 AM »
udai,
I do not have a copy of the sanskrit version,I would like to check it and the meaning of it.I have Sri Bhagavan's Ulladu NaRpadhu in his own Handwriting.Verse 29 is unmistakeable.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2696 on: December 21, 2012, 07:18:06 AM »
udai,
You may have to post the Sanskrit for me to scrutinize.I hop that we are referring to the same verse in Tamizh and Sanskrit.The Tamizh one is unmistakeable ,wherein although Sri Bhagavan admits that this is an aid(not limbs as you are translating),he is raising a Question mark(I mean Literally).He says 'vicharam AmO'(Will that be enquiry?)

This is not to trifle with light banter that is totally misplaced,if we have to scrutinize what is being stated.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2697 on: December 21, 2012, 07:56:11 AM »
udai,
Thanks very much.On the face of it,the sanskrit verse(the last couple of lines)seem to validate what you have said.It does not reflect the stark 'vicharam AmO' of the original tamizh.
Did Sri Bhagavan himself compose the sanskrit version as well ?I wonder.
This needs further study;in any case ,we are not discounting any practice -that is for sure.We are only enquiring here the very core of 'nAn yAr'.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2698 on: December 21, 2012, 08:34:48 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“I hope that we are referring to the same verse in Tamizh and Sanskrit.The Tamizh one is unmistakeable ,wherein although Sri Bhagavan admits that this is an aid(not limbs as you are translating),he is raising a Question mark(I mean Literally).He says 'vicharam AmO'(Will that be enquiry?)

This is not to trifle with light banter that is totally misplaced,if we have to scrutinize what is being stated.”

“We are only enquiring here the very core of 'nAn yAr'”


Dear Sri Ravi,

There is no doubt about that. You are cent percent right.The Verse No. 29 of the ULLadu narpadu is the Verse No. 31 of the Sat Darshanam composed by Sri Ganapati Muni.

Translation given in the ‘Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi’ of the Verse 29 of the ULLadu Narpadu is as follows:
“Cease all talk of ‘I’ and search with inward diving mind whence the thought of ‘I’ springs up. This is the way of wisdom. To think, instead, ‘I am not this, but That I am’, IS HELPFUL IN THE SEARCH, BUT IT IS NOT THE SEARCH ITSELF.”

Verse 31 of the Sat Darshanam in Sanskrit is as follow:

“मौनेन मज्जन्मनसा स्वमूल-
चर्चैव सत्यात्मविचारणं स्यात्।
एषोऽहमेतन्न मम स्वरूप-
मिति प्रमा सत्यविचारणांगम्॥“
maunena mahhan manasaa svamuulcarcaiva satyatma vicaaraNaam syat |
eshoahametanna mama svarupam iti pramaa satya vicaranaangam ||

However, the translation given in the book ‘Sat-Darshana Bhashya’ written by Sri ‘K’ (Sri Kapali Saastri) is as follows:
“The mind through calm in deep-plunge enqyires-
That alone is real quest for the Self.
‘This I am’, ‘mine is not this’,
Ideas such help forward the quest.”

However, to interpret ‘Satyavichranagam’ as the ‘limbs of true Enquiry’ as Sri Tushnim has put it is, in my view, a gross and a blatant misinterpretation of Sri Bhagwan’Teaching. This is seeking to attempt to colour the Teaching itself with one’s own vague understanding. What Sri Bhagwan conceded at best as an aid for purifying the mind, if one cannot take to Self-enquiry, is being integrated as the limbs of true-enquiry. We all are aware that Sri Bhagwan, through His numerous Utterances, discouraged His devotees, to follow this practice. And here, learned Sri Tushnim is trying to convince us that Sri Bhagwan treated this very thinking such as ‘I am not this, I am that’ as the very limbs of true-enquiry. This, in my view, is clear attempt to vitiate and undermine the Atma-vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan, which is not acceptable at all to me. Therefore, I once again request Sri Tushnim not to forcibly draw us in needless and endless argument in this thread as he has done and is still doing with other threads. We are clear and have no doubt whatever what Sri Bhagwan has taught.
Yes, we are enquiring  the very core of ‘nAn yAr’ and not aids or help or limbs.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2699 on: December 21, 2012, 08:57:52 AM »
Anil/udai/Friends,
I need to ascertain what I have understood,however here is a preliminary version.This needs to be validated.
What I understand is that in the first couple of lines Sri Bhagavan is clearly stating by the word 'Alone' is vichara-he is stating that this alone is the vichara that he has set forth.
The Second couple of lines,he is referring to the Traditional 'Sat vichara' and the 'net' 'net' and 'I AM THAT' are just limbs(again not the 'Head' or core)or aids in the Traditional 'Sat Vichara'.
In other words,Sri Bhagavan is clearly differentiating that in his 'vichara' the 'i' is pursue with an inturned mind and this admits no concept of 'SAT' even!If the concept of SAT is accepted even in the smallest measure,the enquiryis not there!
Sri Bhagavan's 'vichara' is not 'SAT Vichara' of the Traditional school.
More later.
Namaskar.