Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758846 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2655 on: December 11, 2012, 10:04:59 AM »
Dear Anil,

One should only look at His photograph with all love and faith and His ever-present Grace will be experienced. Or if one can
afford it, one can go to the Asramam and one can definitely feel His Presence everywhere in the Asramam. His Presence is
quite powerful for the faithful to get the grace showered upon him.

Arunachala Siva. 

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2656 on: December 11, 2012, 06:43:44 PM »
Dear Sri Anil, Thank You Very much for so beautiful,sweet and kind words! These words of Yours have the same purpouse,to inspire. And it really is the Grace itself which brings That clarity and understanding. Now,when we are prey,it will manifest with more intensity and beauty. :) It is bound to be so. Then,let it flow,and shower on us,in abudance. :) With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:24:54 PM by Jewell »

latha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2657 on: December 11, 2012, 07:30:27 PM »
Dear Anilji, Raviji, Jewellji and Friends,

Quote
தெளிவு குருவின் திருமேனி காண்டல்
தெளிவு குருவின் திருநாமஞ் செப்பல்
தெளிவு குருவின் திருவார்த்தை கேட்டல்
தெளிவு குருவுரு சிந்தித்தல் தானே.

Thank you for all your inspiring posts. Yes, it is only Guru's grace that results in this clarity and further strengthens the Faith/Shraddha. How blessed we are to feel this grace!

Anilji, 
Bhagavan's picture has been very helpful for me, particularly during tough times, just looking into his eyes is very calming.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2658 on: December 12, 2012, 06:17:40 AM »
anil,
your post elicited that expression!you are truly blessed.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2659 on: December 12, 2012, 07:25:08 AM »
Lord Sri Krishna :
Let your mind be engrossed in Me. Be devoted to Me. Offer worship to Me. Be resigned to Me. Beloved as you are of Me, I pledge in troth you shall come to Me alone.

Abandoning dependence on all Dharmas (or on human efforts at moral and spiritual upliftment), come to Me as the only Refuse. Grieve not; I will deliver you from all sins.
Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2660 on: December 12, 2012, 07:26:52 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Ah! ! ! This indeed is gathering of hearts at His Feet.
Who cares whether it is Jnana or Bhakti or Great Yoga or Mahayoga? IT IS LOVE THAT TRANSCENDS ALL. Then who cares for bondage or liberation, having long set these polemics aside, for we all have been bound by the Divine Love with a Capital, whether we are so aware or not? 
What does it matter whether we are in Tamil Nadu or Karnataka, Bihar or England, or America or Serbia or Russia or Australia? He has taught us that time and place do not exist!

WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF WE ARE NOT AS GREAR AND  FAMOUS BHAKTAS AS   SRI MURUGANAR, OR MEERA, OR GREAT SRI NARENDRA? WE ALL ARE LIKE SIMPLE GOPIS DRAWN TO OUR SRI KRISHNA, FOR UNDOUBTEDLY HE IS AT HIS DIVINE LEELA AGAIN, PLAYING AN IRRESITABLE TUNE THROUGH HIS DIVINE FLUTE!
IS HIS FEET NOT THE DIVINE FLUTE AND HIS LOOK AND VICHARA THE DIVINE TUNE, WITH A CONSTANT, UNBROKEN, PRIMORDIAL NOTE?
DID GOPIS NEED ANY FORMAL PREPARATION EXCEPT THE PURE LANGUISHING HEART FOR LOVE?

WE ALL ARE INDEED TRULY BLESSED, GRACED AND LOVED!! ARE WE NOT?

WHO CAN FATHOM THIS DIVINE LEELA? YES, IT GOES ON IN EXISTENCE, IRRESPECTIVE OF TIME AND SPACE. ONLY ITS FORM MAY KEEP CHANGING OR IT MAY MANIFEST IN DIFFERNEGT FORMS, BUT NEVERTHELESS IT IS THE SAME. IS IT NOT?

Dear Devotees, Sri Arunachal-Shiv-Ramana, the SELF, THE LIGHT OF Love and Grace Supreme, BECKONS US ALL.  WE MUST FIRST SET OUR HOUSE IN ORDER BY MAKING OUR HEARTS PURE, AND KEEPIMG AS SUCH, OTHERWISE HE WOUD TURN AWAY.  WOULD HE NOT ?

Thanks very much.
With love and prayers.
Pranam,
  Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2661 on: December 12, 2012, 08:54:30 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. In Srimad Bhagavatam, Krishna says to the gopikas (through Uddhava),  after death of Kamsa:  My remembrance will be the
better one for growth of devotion to me, than  my merely being with you all. Bhakti grows more in remembrance than in being near
to god or guru.

Arunachala Siva.
 

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2662 on: December 12, 2012, 02:51:34 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,dear Sri Subramanian sir,dear lathaji, How beautiful words! Yes,who cares for anything when we are here,at His feet,playing His Divine Leela together with Him. Such blessing it is,and such is the Power of Grace and Love! It melts all the obstacles. Then true,who cares for polemics and disputes. This is too His Leela,and the Wonderful Power of Arunachala. Its purifies our hearts and bring us more close to Him,to eachother,to recognition that we are,where ever we are,Always,at Home. Thank You! With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:13:10 PM by Jewell »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2663 on: December 13, 2012, 07:20:21 AM »
Dear devotees,

Our brother and fellow devotee in the Forum, Sri latha ji is undergoing grief and suffering due to untimely and sudden demise of his brother-in-law. I pray to Sri Bhagwan to give him, sister and her children the necessary strength and succour to overcome and come out of this tragic phase with equanimity and act as a great pillar of Support in this tragic hour.
Praying for the departed soul, I wish to say that I shall not participate in any discussion in the Forum as a token of small gesture and support forhim.
Pranam,
 Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2664 on: December 15, 2012, 09:42:16 AM »
Dear Devotees,

All these extensive and spirited discussions about ajnana (ignorance), vasanas (pre-dispositions) or purva-samskaras, etc., are for one who has them. Who has them? They are not there in the dreamless sleep, when I am not concerned about these at all and I am happy. Am I not? On waking, waves after waves of thoughts arise, all centred on a THOUGHT, yes, so called I-thought, which I think is myself and I am shaken. Am I not? We, aware or unaware, are shaken by the thoughts, myriad thoughts. If one, in my view, has at least this minimal understanding, one is prepared to receive Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching and ready to fire the invincible Divine Weapons of Vichara.

Sri Bhagwan taught that thought does not hold of us and shake us, as it were, BUT THE THOUGHT ARISES CATCHING HOLD OF US, WE ARE THE SCREEN FOR THE PLAY OF THOUGHTS. Therefore, we should understand that I-thought and myriad associated thoughts, though rise CATCHING HOLD OF REAL US,  NO DOUBT, BUT SHAKES ONLY ITSELF AND NOT US. Remember,even I-thought is not an independent entity.   It follows that I-thought rises catching hold of US, but it does not has the capacity to shake us, who is the Self, Pure Awareness, FOR THE EGO ARISING SHAKES ONLY ITSELF BY EXPERIENCING DUALITY OF JOYS AND SORROWS, PAIN AND PLEASURES, RIGHT OR WRONG, SINS AND VIRTUES, AND WHAT NOT?

Dear devotees, so long as I-thought, culprit-the chief(or wrecker of our real Happiness), the thief, remains, and catch hold of US, and we, swerving from our State of Being, that we so easily experience  in the state of dreamless sleep, say ‘I’, feeling smug and brandishing pride of ‘I’,THEN freeing ourselves from those very vasanas or purva samsakaras or ajnana, is well nigh impossible.   

In my view, it is because of this reason that Sri Bhagwan taught that instead of seeking to destroy ajnana or purva samsakaras, etc, one must SEEK AND FIND OUT ONE WHO HAS THEM, FOR THEN THEY WILL DISAPPEAR, FOR VICHARA IS ALL-INCLUSIVE.   
       
Q: (a scholar) I am trying to follow the path of virtue BUT I AM FINDING IT IMPOSSIBLE. My previous mental habits (purva-samskaras or predispositions) are preventing me. When will they disappear.

Sri Bhagwan: Ask yourself ‘Who am I?’ Your purva samskaras will disappear WHEN YOU FIND OUT WHO HAS THEM.

Dear devotees, so, to get rid of our past mental habits, we must find out who has them. For one who is asserting (the pseudo subject) is really non-existent, a mere shadow. Therefore, trying to control the mind by seeking to get rid of vasanas or predispositions is akin to someone attempting the impossible task of measuring the length of his own shadow by himself, WHICH IS WELL-NIGH IMPOSSIBLE.

Q. Ajnana (ignorance) must be destroyed. Am I right?
Sri Bhagwan: IT WILL BE SUFFICIENT IF YOU INVESTIGATE THE ONE WHOSE AJNANA MUST BE DESTROYED.
HOW CALAMITOUS  IT MAY SOUND TO AN UNSUSPECTING ONE!
For, if we investigate the one who has the ajnana oneself is destroyed. UNDOUBTEDLY. BUT what remains is JNANA, KNOWLEDGE, SUPREMELY BLISSFUL AWARENESS, WHICH IS OUR TRUE STATE OF BEING, OUR PEMANENT ABODE WHICH IS VERILY ‘I’, THE SELF, BUT WHICH DOES NOT SAY ‘I’—SPEECHLESS AND SILENT, A VOID, WHICH NEVERTHELESS CONTAINS ALL, BUT TRANSCENDING THEM ALL.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching is the Supreme Beauty Itself. SEE FOR YOURSELF, for Sri Bhagwan has himself assured, it is within experience of one and all. Please do not feel wanting and lacking in any way and go whole-heartedly for the Vichara TO CUT THE VERY ROOT OF DESIRE, IMAGINATION, CONCEPT, VASANAS, OR AJANAN ETC. 

Progress in Vichara means also surrender to that extent, AND THEN THE REAL MEANING AND IMPORT OF REAL LOVE AND BHAKTI DAWN IF THEIR OWN ACCORD.   

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
T
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2665 on: December 15, 2012, 10:09:14 AM »
Dear anil,

Nice. Thought does not shake us. We only grab the thought and make ourselves miserable. Vvichara will itself be the way
for not only Realization but also throw out the thoughts on the way.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2666 on: December 16, 2012, 09:05:52 AM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“So every time thoughts "as if " create a "feeling" that they have "Caught hold of you".
They cannot catch you. Like even the movie on a screen cannot touch the screen.
But habitually, every time you seem to get into a situation where you feel "I am affected",
one sees "who is affected" only to see t hat there is NO ONE to get affected.

Suppose fear is there ... one does not try to "Get out of it"
suppose one sees a situation that "seems" to trouble... one does not try to get out of it.
one never tries to change the "Content" of Mind.
One simply tries to see that there is "NO One who can be affected by the content of mind".

Due to vasanas , in particular situations, particular content of mind is predecided. No one can change it.
But what one can "SEE" is that "THERE IS NO ONE TO GET AFFECTED" ... thats it.”


Dear Sri Tushnim,

Yes, the thought does not catch hold of us and shake us. Sri Bhagwan says that the thought catching hold of us shakes itself. “WE’, the Self, remain as ‘We’ ever are.

However, the question of ancient identification with the thought remains to be tackled. It is true that we are the same bodiless and mindless ‘I’ that we were when we were asleep and it is our first mistake to leave that state and take the body to be ‘I’. But that is the order of the day and fact of the relative existence from which we are trying to extricate ourselves and merely ‘BE’ without being so and so and this and that.

Yes, contents of the mind cannot be changed. BUT IN MY VIEW, THE BASIC POINT YOU HAVE NOT OBSERVED IN YOUR POST IS THIS THAT CONTENTS OF THE MIND WHICH ARE VASANAS OR PREDISPOSITIONS CANNOT BE DESTROYED SO LONG AS THE ONE WHO HAS THEM IS NOT DESTROYED and herein lies the great efficacy of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching.

Sri Bhagwan says that so long as there is the egoity, effort is necessary. That is why Sri Bhagwan teaches:
Sri Bhagwan: “Ask yourself ‘Who am I?’ YOUR PURVA SAMSKARAS(Vasanas or predispositions) WILL DISAPPEAR WHEN YOU FIND OUT WHO HAS THEM.” 

Dear Tushnim, this is one basic point which, in my view, you seem to overlook in your discussion with the forum members. So long as vasanas remain entrenched question of identification with the thought cannot be simply wished away and HENCE THE EFFORT AND GRACE OF THE GURU ARE NEEDED.
Therefore, practice is necessary so long as ego does not cease to be. Practice means removal of predispositions. Yes, it is not for any fresh gain; it is to kill the predispositions.

This is why Sri Bhagwan taught the ‘Who am I?’ enquiry and to hold the ‘I’-thought and find its MOOLA, that is, its SOURCE. Once the SOURCE is found or reached and one is merged in THAT, that is the end of the egoity and with it the end of predispositions as well.

This is the right and proper way, as per Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching to put and end to identification with the thought and remain establish in EXISTENCE-CONSCIOUSNESS WHOSE NATURE IS PURE AND SUPREME BLISS.

Dear Sri Tushnin, moreover, the RESOLVE to find the Self also must be there and this RESOLVE is the Dynamic Element in the Enquiry. THE QUESTION ‘WHO AM I?’ OR ‘WHENCE AM I?’ IMPLIES THIS VERY RESOLVE.

Dear Sri Tushnim, you are an invaluable member in the forum, then why this frequent break or coming and going out of it?Come on, if you are not able to saty in the forum, how will you be able to stay in the Self? My only request to you is to adhere to Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, particularly Enquiry as taught by Him, while discussing them.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2667 on: December 16, 2012, 04:10:06 PM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“The question of identification with thoughts ... is tackled in the presence of thoughts.
I am not saying contents of mind cannot be changed.
all i am saying is until vasanas pop up, they cannot be handled. dormant vasanas cannot be handled, only when they are active
they need to be killed.”

“and when vasanas pop up ... to see that there is no one who gets affected by vasanas is their death.
now... if vasanas create a certain mental climate and i try to change that mental climate... i am effectively not killing the vasanas there.
suppose fear is a vasana that has popped up and i try to chant something and get rid of fear. now ... it means i am perpetuating the idea
that fear is troubling me. if instead ... i try not to change anything but "FACE" it... seeing that there is no one to get affected.
then that fear dies.”
Sri Bhagwan

Dear Sri Tushnim,

Well. There may be difference in perspective. So what? Goal is the same. Is it not?
All right, in the first paragraph, as quoted above, what you have said is indeed true. Sri Bhagwan also taught that it is only right that as soon as one sits for meditation, thoughts will come out from their hidden place and try to disturb the current of meditation. It is natural, otherwise how else they would be destroyed or tackled, as you said. Therefore, they must come out to be tackled; dormant ones will be impossible to be tackled. So, yes, that is all right, though there may be difference in terms employed.

In the second paragraph also, it seems all right to the extent when you say as following:
“if vasanas create a certain mental climate and i try to change that mental climate... i am effectively not killing the vasanas there.
suppose fear is a vasana that has popped up and i try to chant something and get rid of fear. now ... it means i am perpetuating the idea
that fear is troubling me.”

For, by above you seem to be telling that seeking to control the mind is futile. I wish to only add that controlling the mind implies the need of a second mind to control the first.

However, it is different and certainly a change in perspective when you say as following:

   “and when vasanas pop up ... to see that there is no one who gets affected by vasanas is their death.
now... if instead ... i try not to change anything but "FACE" it... seeing that there is no one to get affected.
then that fear dies.”

For, dear Sri Tushnim, who is to see? Are ther two selves? It does not conform to Sri Bhawan’s Teaching. For, it seems to involve the technique of ‘thought watching’ which is not recommended by Sri Bhagwan in the least, though it may be efficacious in other forms of sadhana. Instead, Sri Bhagwan has taught that when vasanas or thoughts pop up, it certainly implies that the Self-attention has been lost and revealed a method to regain the Self-attention:
 To whom?
To me?
WHO AM I?
AND THUS GET RIVETED AGAIN TO I-FEELING OR ‘I AM’ WHICH IS OUR REAL NATURE. I really wonder that you are talking so much about vasanas or thought but not about ego who has them. I again reiterate that so long as the ego is there it is not possible to get rid of thoughts. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan taught that tracing the Source of the ego and merging in THAT is the way to get rid of the thoughts and ignorance. So, on the contrary, I feel that you must also try to understand our perspective which is solely guided by His Teaching.

Sri Bhagwan: It must be sufficient if you investigate the one whose ajnana must be destroyed.”

Dear Sri Tushnim, you keep on repeating post after post that you have not been understood. But I do not think so. I feel that there is nothing you are telling which is not being understood. Although there may be difference in perspective, what I feel is this that there is a bit of ambiguity in what you are telling and which does not conform to Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, that us all.

However, notwithstanding these minor differences, you are most welcome to share your views as when you feel so.
Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil


ramana_maharshi

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2668 on: December 16, 2012, 06:27:03 PM »
Quote
Bhagavan wont mind if you inquire a little outside his domain ... coz thats sincere inquiry ... where one leaves the hand of the father and walks on his own ... without leaving the hand of the father one never grows up. A kid who has just started walking holds onto the hands of his father for help... but if a grown up holds onto the hands of his father its a pity to watch.

Dear udai garu,

I agree with your above analysis sir and i always suggest independent analysis of our fav guru's teachings.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2669 on: December 16, 2012, 06:58:02 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

Yes. You must have the last word because nobody is here able to understand you as you claimed.

No. I did not attempt to find an error. I said only what I felt and understood.

I believe that the Vichara is a subjective sadhana.

I faithfully believe that I should adhere strictly to the Teaching as taught by Sri Bhagwan, be it Enquiry or Surrender.

I raise both hands, for I shall not argue.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil