Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756596 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2595 on: November 04, 2012, 08:23:44 AM »

Peace is the Real Nature. Contrary ideas are only superimpositions. This is true bhakti, true yoga , true jnana. You may say that this peace is acquired by practice. The wrong notions are given by practice. This is all. Your true nature always persists.
                                                          Talk-293

Dear Devotees,

Peace is in the repose of the Self. Sri Bhagwan has taught that Peace is the Self-Realisation. IF OUR TEMPORARY PEACE IS MADE PERMANENT, IT IS CALLED REALISATION. Since the Peace is our Swarupa, the Self, It is ever present. BUT WE HOLD IT DOWN AND RISE OVER IT DUE TO SAMSKARAS AND THUS DISTURB IT.
ON THE ONE HAND, WE RISE OVER IT AND THUS DISTURB IT  AND  ON THE OTHER WE START SEARCHING FOR  IT FRANTICALLY  OUTSIDE  THE SWARUPA, AND THERE WHERE IT IS WELL-NIGH IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND. 
Therefore, Peace is the Self.
Sri Bhagwan: Peace is always present. Get rid of the disturbances to Peace. This Peace is the Self. The thoughts are the disturbances. When free from them, you are infinite Intelligence, i.e. the Self. There is Perfection and Peace.
Sri Annamalai Swami: Instead of toiling and suffering in the mind, WHICH IS THE OUTER EDGE OF CONSCIOUSNESS, we should move towards the Self, the Centre of our Being.

Dear devotees, so, the Peace is not in the mind. Peace is the Self. As we start to move inwards we experience the Peace and Bliss of the Self, albeit in a very diluted form. THE DEEPER ONE GOES, THE STRONGER THE EXPERIENCE BECOMES. Eventually comes a time when we don’t want to leave this experience at all. Instead, there is a continuous urge to go deeper and deeper into the Self.  When we thus loose all desires and attachments, the pure gold of the Self reveals Itself to us.

In the Final State, one does not experience Peace and Bliss. WHO IS THERE IN THE FINAL STATE TO EXPEREINCE?  ONE IS THAT PEACE AND BLISS ITSELF.
 THIS IS THE TEACHING, AND THIS IS HOW, IN MY VIEW, IT SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
   



Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2596 on: November 04, 2012, 12:21:25 PM »
Dear Anil, Tusnim,

Yes. Annamalai Swami is a great devotee of Sri Bhagavan who had understood Sri Bhagavan's teachings very well.
But I find Murugnar who has recorded His teachings while Sri Bhagavan was still in mortal coil, and got the verses
verified by Him, I mean the book Guru Vachaka Kovai, is the best reference for all of Sri Ramana's teachings.

Arunachala Siva.
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2597 on: November 04, 2012, 04:07:21 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Annamalai Swami's teachings consist only with the answers of Annamalai Swami for the questions asked by some devotees
in Palakottu. His answers do not cover the entire gamut of Sri Bhagavan's teachings. Whereas Guru Vachaka Kovai is written
verse (verses cannot be changed in words or contents unlike oral teachings) and covers the entire teachings of Sri Bhagavan.
Further these verses have been verified and even corrected by Sri Bhagavan Himself in certain places. Sri Bhagavan Himself
has also added about 20 to 25 verses of His own in between some topics to cover the content therein completely.
Thus Guru Vachaka Kovai is a complete compendium of Sri Bhagavan's teachings. There is no doubt about that.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2598 on: November 04, 2012, 06:19:42 PM »
Dear Tushnim,

Sri Bhagavan corrected these verses because at that time of writing he remained only a bhakta keeping Sri Bhagavan as guru.
I am not sure when he was self realized. Sri Bhagavan once took him  to the Hill and with His gaze, he melted his mind and made
it disappear. But I am not sure when this grace of Gaze took place. 

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2599 on: November 05, 2012, 06:43:12 AM »
Ouote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“Annamalai Swami is a great devotee of Sri Bhagavan who had understood Sri Bhagavan's teachings very well.
But I find Murugnar who has recorded His teachings while Sri Bhagavan was still in mortal coil, and got the verses
verified by Him, I mean the book Guru Vachaka Kovai, is the best reference for all of Sri Ramana's teachings.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. This is exactly what I wished to say through my post. Although I believe that it is not appropriate for us to compare the great, old devotees of Sri Bhagwan, I feel that Sri Anamalai Swami’s Enlightening Words and Sri Muruganar’s Compositions are two most authentic references for Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching besides His own Direct Utterances, such as ‘Who am I?’, ‘Upadesa Saram, ‘Ulladu Narpadu’, Talks and numerous other Writings and Compositions.

Ji. Yes. It is also true that Sri Annamalai Swami’s Answers do not cover the entire gamut of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, whereas the Guru Vachaka Kovai is a complete compendium of His Teaching. There is no doubt about that whatever.
ONE DISCERNS THE TOUCH OF GURU’S GRACE IN ALL COMPOSITIONS OF THE DIVINE POET. THOSE WHO STUDY AND ASSIMILATE THEM ARE INDEED GRACED. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.
Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2600 on: November 05, 2012, 06:45:49 AM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“Q: I know that Bhagavan is in all forms but some times I find it easier to feel his grace by concentrating on an image of him. Self inquiry is such hard work. One rarely finds blissful or peaceful doing it. sometimes i feel like treating myself to a little bliss by looking at bhagavan's picture for a while.

A: there is nothign wrong with looking at Bhagavan's picture. Thats a good practise. But you should not get sidetracked from our main objective which is establishing uourself as consciousness. dont get attached to states of bliss or give them priority over the quest for Self. IF you become attached to peaceful or blissful states you may lose your interest in the main quest. it is good to feel blissful and peaceful but dont indulge yourself in these states at the expense of self inquiry. if you realize the inner Self, if you realize that there is not an attom which is apart from Self, you will experience the real peace and bliss of the Self. you will be the peace or the bliss rather than being the experiencer of it. if you experience temporary states of peace or bliss in the mind, the experiencer of that peace or bliss will not want to subside into the Self and disappear.
Dont get attached to mental peace. Go beyond it to the real peace which comes from being the Self.”


Dear Sri Tushnim,

Yes, the above reply of Sri Annamalai Swami is an important aspect of the great Teaching. What the great devotee here means, in my view, is crystal-clear from the reply itself. Says Sri Swami:
“AS WE START TO MOVE INWARDS WE EXPERIENCE THE PEACE AND BLISS OF THE SELF IN DILUTED FORM. The deeper we go, the stronger becomes the experience.”   
                           
Therefore, what Sri Swami means is that one should not get attached to these peaceful or blissful states (if these can be states at all) during sadhana. For these states are temporary and the peace or bliss experienced during these states of sadhana is nothing but the diluted form of the Peace or the Bliss That is the Self. So, Sri Swami is here cautioning us not to indulge in these temporary states which are the diluted form of the Bliss of the Self and thereby lose interest in the main Quest.

Moreover, who am I to experience peace or bliss or to indulge in these states? If one experiences states of bliss during sadhana, expereincer is still there. Who is he? In this way we must take the Enquiry deeper and deeper. Sri Swami says the deeper we go, the stronger becomes the experience and eventually a time will come when one does not want to leave this experience at all.
DEAR SRI TUSHNIM, ANSWER TO YOUR QUERY LIES HERE. EVENTUALLY ONE REACHES A STATE IN SADHANA WHEN ONE DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE EXPERIENCE. But Sri Swami says that there is a continuous urge to go deeper and deeper into the Self. And as we go deeper and deeper, shedding desires and attachments in the way, the pure gold of the Self reveals.

IN THAT FINAL STATE, DEAR SRI TUSHNIM, THERE IS NO ONE TO EXPEREINCE PEACE AND BLISS, as you well aware. THERE IS NO EXPEREINCER. ONE IS PEACE AND BLISS ITSELF.

There is no stage in Jnana but there are stages in sadhana. One should not rest content with whatever one experiences ( states of peace or bliss) or sees (vision or light or whatever)  and instead go deeper and deeper into the Self till the Self reveals itself. That is the State beyond effort and effortlessness. THAT IS THE SELF-REALISATION SRI BHAGWAN SPEAKS OF.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   


Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2601 on: November 05, 2012, 08:52:29 AM »
Udai,
" Just caution that joyous states produced by mental stimulation are not necessarily advanced states "

Happiness and Bliss are not 'produced' by mental stimulation.They arise when the mind is purified and sheds the load of karmic imprints.They only encourage the seeker to get to the source instead of 'trapping' him.I have already posted what Sri ramakrishna has said on this.I find Anil has said this very thing.

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2602 on: November 05, 2012, 12:54:36 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Joyous state obtained mentally whether one prays to God or the Self, becomes Peace when the mind merges with God
or Self, 'the prayed Principle".  When the mind is not there, it is no longer mental peace. It is Peace, that passeth understanding and definition.

Arunachala Siva
 

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2603 on: November 05, 2012, 01:05:56 PM »
udai,
You may understand someday. :)
I will leave it here.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2604 on: November 06, 2012, 06:59:34 AM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“A: IT is always good to worship the guru, but abiding in the guru's teachings is far better. You follow the bhakti path if you want to but you should remember that its almost impossible for a devotee to judge whether he is making progress or not. you should not jump to the conclusion that you are not making any progress with your self inquiry simply because you find it hard to do. And you should not think tht you will make more progress as a bhakta simply because you find it easy to generate joyful sates of mind.”


Dear Sri Tushnim,

We must seek to understand the context in which the above has been said. The Great Devotee is here saying that one should not jump to conclusion that Enquiry is difficult simply because one thinks that one is not making any progress and therefore it is hard to do; and Bhakti is easy simply because one is able to generate joyous states of mind.
So far as appropriateness of a spiritual path is concerned, we are aware that it depends on devotee’s temperament. As for joyful states of mind, I wish to say that Lord or the Self alone is Sat-Chit-Ananda. As it is taught in Enquiry that one should not rest content with the peace experienced or vision seen, but should push the Enquiry further into the Self, so also in Bhakti, one should not rest content with emotions, feelings and joyful states of mind, but go further and direct it to His Feet and SURRENDER UTTERLY and be One with Him. Love, Bhakti, Eka Chintanam, and Ananya Bhakti, should lead to the complete, unconditional surrender and finally culminate in ONENESS WITH HIM. JNANA AND BHAKTI ARE ONE AND THE SAME.
In my view, those who keep on parroting, day in and day out, unnecessarily that Bhakti is better than Jnana or that Jnana is better than Bhakti should know better. I have not seen a single statement of Sri Bhagwan in which He has committed to such assertion except that Self-enquiry as taught by Him is inclusive of all Paths—Jnana, Bhakti and Yoga, etc.

But then those who keep on asserting that Vichara as taught by Him is purely the Path of Jnana, should also, in my view, know better.
VICHARA AS TAUGHT BY HIM IS THE ACME OF BOTH JNANA AND BHAKTI AND IS THEIR FUSION. IT IS THE PANACEA.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil



Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2605 on: November 06, 2012, 07:45:16 AM »
Udai,
Go on with your sadhana.Then see whether you have any point to make! :)
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2606 on: November 06, 2012, 08:18:29 AM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

Bondage and liberation pertain to the mind. Nay, they  are of the mind, for the mind, and by the mind; mind or maya  which is not.
I understand what you mean to say.
AH! ONLY  THING  IS  MIND  WHICH  IS  NOT  is  NOT  UTTERLY  RESOLVED  INTO  ITS  SOURCE  AND  THEREFORE  ONE  IS  NOT  ABLE TO REMAIN  AS  A  MUKTA.  Mind still rises with its question of bondage and liberation and with it follows all else as well.  This discussion and all these arguments!
Nevertheless, it is true that from the stand-point of Reality, THAT WE ARE, there is no bondage and liberation.

Thanks very much.
 Pranam,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2607 on: November 06, 2012, 12:51:59 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

You say mind  is 'mithya'  But how many of us treat the mind as mithya and leave it at that. No. We think it is real. Therefore,
for a mumukshu whose mind is still not conquered, the feeling I am bound arises. This can go only when mind merges in the
Self within.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2608 on: November 06, 2012, 03:19:05 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Once Vivekananda hit against a stone, and he had pain. He said: O I speak of advaita but when the stone is hit I am pained!
This shows the mind is seemingly real or seemingly unreal, which is mithya.

Sri Bhagavan while trying to remove a rock, His right hand got under the rock and His thumb was cut and it was hanging.
He had to take some medicines and bandage for that. This is again a case of mind being seemingly real or seemingly unreal,
which is mithya.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2609 on: November 06, 2012, 06:06:34 PM »
Dear Tusnim

In that sense it is correct. When Sri Bhagavan was suffering from terminal cancer, when some one asked Him, weather
He had pain, He said, Body is paining.

Arunachala Siva,