Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 757505 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2550 on: October 26, 2012, 10:17:16 AM »
Sri Bhagwan:
Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing. With Sradha, it will become manifest.

Dear Devotees,

Therefore, with Sradha or Faith, Grace will become manifest and Grace is verily the Self.
So, what is Sradha or Faith?
Sri Bhagwan says that Sradha, Grace, Light, Spirit are all synonymous with the Self.

Dear devotees, a great discussion is going on regarding Sradha in the Forum. In this context, following conversations from the Talks will be greatly instructive:

Devotee: Sri Bhawan said last night that God is guiding us. Then why should we make an effort to do anything?
Sri Bhagwan : Who asks you to do so? If there was that faith in the guidance of God this question would not have arisen.
Devotee: The fact is that God guides us. Then what is the use of these instructions to people?
Sri Bhagwan : They are for those who seek instructions. If you are firm in the guidance of God, stick to it, and do not concern yourself with what happens around you. Furthermore, there may be happiness or misery. Be equally indifferent to both and abide in the faith of God. That will be so only when one’s faith is strong that God looks after all of us.
Devotee: How shall I secure that firm faith?
Sri Bhagwan : Exactly. It is for such as these who want instructions. There are persons who seek freedom from misery. They are told that God guides all and so there need not be any concern what happens. IF THEY ARE OF THE BEST TYPE THEY AT ONCE BELIEVE IT AND FIRMLY ABIDE BY FAITH IN GOD.

Dear devotees, that there are different types of devotees and seekers among us is a fact. Is it not? For, Says Sri Bhagwan, there are others who are not so easily convinced of the truth of the bare statement and they ask: “Who is God? What is His Nature? Where is He? How can He be realised? And so on.  It is for this type that intellectual discussion is necessary. Statements are made, their pros and cons are argued, and the truth is thus made clear to the intellect.
Another instructive conversation:
Devotee: Is an intellectual understanding of the Truth necessary?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes. Otherwise why does not the person realise God or the Self at once, i.e., as soon as he is told that God is all or the Self is all ? THAT SHOWS SOME WAVERING ON HIS PART.  He must argue with himself and gradually convince himself of the Truth before his faith becomes firm.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that when the matter is understood intellectually an earnest seeker begins to apply it practically, DEPENDING ON HIS SAMSKARA. ONE MAY FIND YOGA SUITABLE AND ANOTHER SEEKER NAMA JAPA, AND SO ON.
BUT THE ESSENTIAL POINT IS THE ATMA-VICHARA---ENQUIRY INTO THE SELF.  Such a seeker would argue at every moment, “For whom are these thoughts? Who am I?” and so forth, UNTIL HE IS WELL ESTABLISHED IN THE CONVICTION THAT A HIGHER POWER GUIDES US.
DEAR DEVOTEES, THAT IS HOW ONE IS ESATBLISHED IN THE FIRMNESS OF FAITH BEYOND ALL DOUBTS AND HE NEEDS NO FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
             

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2551 on: October 26, 2012, 11:44:37 AM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“In Self inquiry there is no "Faith" needed.”

Dear Sri Tushnim,

I do not accept this view in the least. I do not wish to say anything against such statements and end up arguing endlessly. Therefore, I can have nothing to do with such statements.

Thanks very much for letting me know your views that there is no need of faith, sradha, grace, love and devotion in the Path of Atma-Vivhara as taught by Sri Bhagwan.

Pranam,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2552 on: October 26, 2012, 11:49:10 AM »
Terrorists are the perverted people and their acts of wanton killings are sheer lunacy.  What they are doing in the name of religion is inhuman and beastly.  To categorise their heinous crimes against the humanity and the beliefs and philosophy which support it as faith, sradha or devotion, in a forum like this, is hurting, and is beyond my understanding.
Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2553 on: October 26, 2012, 01:25:52 PM »
Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan once said, "What is Grace? It is a function of God." Like the rays of he sun, Grace is always functioning; there is
no moment when it is not. But it is dependent on the receptivity of the individual to partake of it. What contributes to the
receptivity of Grace in the individual? It is suddha chittam (purified mind), caused by several factors, viz., love for fellow human beings,
and sympathy to human suffering resulting in charitable acts, pilgrimages, bath in holy waters, worship of God, by singing  praises of
Him, japa, pranayama, meditation etc.,

Like a school boy moving from a lower class to a higher class by qualifying himself for it, this chitta suddhi of varying nature
develops the spirituality of the individual, step, by step and Grace aids him by guiding him. Grace is manifest ONLY WHEN THERE IS
SRADDHA (EARNESTNESS) and not otherwise. With increase in bhakti, japa, and meditation, the individual becomes receptive to
Grace. He experiences it and attributes every good, material and spiritual, to this overshadowing Grace. This is in turn induces absolute
surrender and immediate rejection of any thought of conscious planning. Once engrossed  totally in worldliness is impervious to Grace.

(The Technique of Maha Yoga).

Arunachala Siva.           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2554 on: October 26, 2012, 04:38:09 PM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“ Its not Faith but "Openness" thats required.
Self inquiry requires a student who is "Open" to "see what the guru is ready to give him a darshan of"
as i always say this is not merely believing what the guru said.
if i believe and dont try to see what he is saying... i have no sraddha. i may have some faith !
if i do not believe and dont see also i have no sraddha”.


Dear Sri Tushnim,

You have introduced yet another word ‘openness’ to add to the confusion, as if these words, such as, sradha, faith grace, etc., and their meaning are not known to us. I, for one, am not able to understand why do you lay so much emphasis that others must grasp and accept your point of view. 

You say that faith is not needed in Self-enquiry.
I say that to succeed in Self-enquiry, absolute faith in Sri Bhagwan (I cannot say about other Gurus) and His teaching is essential, for in my opinion, He is the Commander-in-Chief of the battle against mental demons in the battle field of mental akasa.

And see for yourself what Sri Bhagwan Himself  says:

Sri Bhagwan: “When the matter is understood intellectually the earnest seeker begin to apply it practically. He argues at every moment, “For whom are these thoughts? Who am I?” and so forth, until he is well-established in conviction that a Higher Power guides us. THAT IS FIRMNESS OF FAITH. Then all his doubts are cleared and he needs no further instructions.”


Dear  Sri Tushnim, I BELIEVE RATHER STRONGLY THAT FAITH AND SRADHA ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN ANY SPIRITUAL SADHANA OR PRACTICE.  What kind of a spiritual sadhana is that which is bereft of faith and sradha?.

Moreover, in a forum committed to the Life and Teaching of Sri Bhagwan you must heed to what He says:
Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing. WITH SRADHA IT WILL BECOME MANIFEST. SRADHA, GRACE, LIGHT, SPIRIT ARE ALL SYNONYMOUS WITHG THE SELF.

Therefore, dear Sri Tushnim, I do not seek to struggle with the words. I feel, contrary to your perception, that everybody here in the Forum, understands these terms rather well. As far as I am concerned I am content to understand that Sradha is faith and faith is Sradha., one seeking subtle difference between two notwithstanding.

Thanks very much.
 Pranam,
   Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2555 on: October 26, 2012, 05:35:20 PM »
Quote:
"That is because there is something being conveyed... which is conveniently missed!
One understands the reason why i do that when one understands what i conveyed."

Dear Sri Tushnim,

Well, that is all right. I shall wait till I am able to understand what you wish to convey. However, I am afraid that if it is to happen after Realistion, I do not know when that will happen.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2556 on: October 26, 2012, 05:48:33 PM »
Dear Anil,

The word sraddha (faith, earnestness) appear in Gunatraya vibhaga yogam, Ch. 13 of BG in verse 3;

SattvAnuroopA sarvasya sraddha bhavati Bharata |
SradhhAmayO yam purusho  yo yach chraddah sa eva sah ||


O scion of the Bharata race! The Faith of everyone to his natural disposition (derived from past impressions). Man is
constituted of his Faith. What his Faith is, that verily he is.

Here Sri Krishna uses the word sraddha, which has been translated into faith by all English translators. This is also one of
the 42 verses selected by Sri Bhagavan and appears as Verse 17 in His Gita Saram. Here, Arthur Osborne has translated
sraddha as faith only.

Arunachala Siva.         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2557 on: October 26, 2012, 06:08:59 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

On the contrary, I feel that all one needs is to study and assimilate Bhagwan Sri Ramana’s Teaching with Sradha and Faith and follow the Teaching with sincerity  and earnestness of purpose unwaveringly. Once one does that, it is, By His Grace, own Guide and it starts happening.  All one needs is to disinvest the baggage, and thereby be bereft of the ‘tam’ from the ‘chittam’ to shine as Pure ‘Chit’. FOR, SELF-ENQUIRY AS TAUGHT BY BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA IS ENOUGH.

Pranam,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2558 on: October 26, 2012, 06:17:07 PM »
Dear Anil.

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says in Sad Darsanam, Supplement:

1. In the company of sages, attachment vanishes; and with attachment illusion. Freed from illusion, one attains stability,
and thence liberation while yet alive. Seek therefore the company of Sages.

2. Not by listening to preachers, nor by study of books, not by meritorious deeds, nor by any other means can one
attain that Supreme State, which is attainable only through the association  with the Sages, and the clear quest of the Self.

Here the the 'company of sages' does not mean only the physically embodied sages of today. Most of them are second or third
rated. The clan of Swami Nityanandas are increasing. Therefore, with Sraddha, keep Sri Bhagavan as the Living Guru and go in
His company.

Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2559 on: October 26, 2012, 06:40:30 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

So, you are responding thus to tire us.
From  the response of  other members in the Forum, and  as I myself understand it, it is you who are not able to see what members are trying to convey  you all along. It is grievous mistake to think that one alone has grasped the truth and others are mere novices because they have not studied the Vedanta systematically.  Guru Himself is the Vedanta and all that.
AS FOR MYSELF, I HAVE BECOME AWARE , BY HIS GRACE, OF MY TRUE SUBJECTIVE EXISTENCE, THAT IS, I AM, though I am not realised, not yet.

Pranam,
  Anil 

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2560 on: October 26, 2012, 06:43:12 PM »
when you ask " who am i ? " there must also be a willingness (openness -lol ) to accept the answer (truth) .
you must be willing to accept the truth no matter what it is , or what you will lose or gain , even if it's death .
you have to be willing to put aside all your stories of seeking , all your stories of religion , all your stories of paths , all your stories of what Ramana said and even the story of the self , if only for a moment .
it is in this willingness that truth reveals itself when the question "who am i ?" is asked .

why did the man keep hitting himself in the head with a hammer ? ... because it felt so good when he stopped
why did the seeker keep telling stories of enlightenment ? ..... because it felt so good when he stopped
.... lol

just stop .. really stop .. and see the truth of who you really are    :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2561 on: October 26, 2012, 06:56:59 PM »
Quote from Sri Beloved Abstract:
“you have to be willing to put aside all your stories of seeking , all your stories of religion , all your stories of paths , all your stories of what Ramana said and even the story of the self , if only for a moment .
it is in this willingness that truth reveals itself when the question "who am i ?" is asked .”

Dear Sri Beloved Abstract,

Yes. This is beautiful. For, ultimately one needs to put aside all stories whatever and see who one really is, and remain as That.
Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2562 on: October 27, 2012, 09:22:35 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“Grace is manifest ONLY WHEN THERE IS
SRADDHA (EARNESTNESS) and not otherwise. With increase in bhakti, japa, and meditation, the individual becomes receptive to
Grace. He experiences it and attributes every good, material and spiritual, to this overshadowing Grace. This is in turn induces absolute
surrender and immediate rejection of any thought of conscious planning. Once engrossed  totally in worldliness is impervious to Grace.”

“O scion of the Bharata race! The Faith of everyone to his natural disposition (derived from past impressions). Man is
constituted of his Faith. What his Faith is, that verily he is.

Here Sri Krishna uses the word sraddha, which has been translated into faith by all English translators. This is also one of
the 42 verses selected by Sri Bhagavan and appears as Verse 17 in His Gita Saram. Here, Arthur Osborne has translated
sraddha as faith only.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. As I understand, sir, with increase in Bhakti, japa, and meditation, faith becomes firm and this in itself is the manifestation of Divine Grace. SRI BHAGWAN HAS SAID THAT THE MANIFESTATION OF GRACE IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SELF AND THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SELF IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THE GRACE. When the faith becomes firm, one is swallowed by the Grace, culminating in complete surrender. THEREFORE, IF ONE HAS SURRENDERED ONESELF ENTIRELY, THERE IS NO PART LEFT TO ASK FOR GRACE. 

Dear sir, as for the Gita Verses, in the Verse No. 17-3 and Verse No. 4-39, the word ‘Sradha’ has been translated by all translators as ‘Faith’ only. I would like to quote the Verse No. 4-39 in this context as follows:

“A man of deep Faith (Sradha) obtains this divine knowledge, being full of zeal and devotion for it and endowed with mastery of the senses. Having obtained that knowledge, he is established in supreme peace very soon.”
V. 4-39, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Dear sir, this Sradha or Faith is not credulity and superstitious acceptance of some unknown and unverifiable ideals. IN MY VIEW, IT IS A POSITIVE AND DESIRABLE ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH WHICH DOES NOT LIE WITHIN THE REALM OF THE SENSES AND REASON. Faith is sometimes condemned as blind and superstitious which may lead one to wrong conclusion, quite forgetting that reason is no better and it also more often than not leads to wrong conclusion unless refined by proper training. In the same manner, Faith develops in the right direction as a devotee’s heart grows purer and purer by spiritual practices and aspiration to know one’s own truth.

Therefore, whereas faith (starting with a small f) of impure minds, full of hankering of a lower nature will be subject to superstitious and degrading practices, Faith (starting with a capital F) of a pure and sincere mind is the greatest asset and support in the spiritual life.
FAITH IS FIRST AND FOREMOST QUALITY OF A PURE MIND. IT IS NATURALLY AND SPONTANEOUSLY RECEPTIVE TO THE TRUE AND THE GOOD. UNLIKE WHAT IS MERE BELIEF, FAITH IS AN OPERATIVE FORCE ENTHUSING A SEEKER TO PUT THE CONTENT OF HIS FAITH TO PRACTICE.
TO ME, SRADHA MEANS NOT ONLY FAITH BUT BHAKTI ALSO.

Pranam,
  Anil
       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2563 on: October 27, 2012, 09:25:35 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“Here the the 'company of sages' does not mean only the physically embodied sages of today. Most of them are second or third
rated. The clan of Swami Nityanandas are increasing. Therefore, with Sraddha, keep Sri Bhagavan as the Living Guru and go in
His company.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

In this dark age when many ingenuine and ambitious persons are brandishing themselves as spiritual teachers and true Gurus are few and far between, this is the best spiritual advice available in this Forum.
WITH SRADHA, KEEP SRI BHAGWAN AS THE LIVING GURU AND GO IN HIS COMPANY.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEN AND NOW FOR ME. When Sri Bhagwan was physically present, the minds of His devotees were stilled by the Power of His Presence. THE SAME PROFOUND PEACE AND INTENSE PRESENCE ARE FELT PALPABLY IN THE OLD HALL AND IN FRONT OF THE SHRINE. METHOD OF INITIATION THROUGH EYES, I AM SURE, REMAINS THE SAME.
Ji. Yes. He is always at hand, near, very near, as the Guru, taking more and more of the responsibilities, worldly as well as the spiritual, of His loving devotees, AND LEADING THEM TO THE BLISSFUL REALM OF THE SPIRIT AND THE SELF, WITH FIRM AND TIMELY GUIDANCE.

ONLY A LITTLE LOVE AND DEVOTION NEED TO BE KINDLED IN ONE’S HEART FOR HIM AS WELL AS HIS PATH AND THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT IT WOULD WORK WONDERS.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil   


atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2564 on: October 27, 2012, 10:04:11 AM »
Quote
The clan of Swami Nityanandas are increasing.

There is a saying ,as the King so the subjects or otherway as the subjects so is the King . We get only what we deserve . Recently a relative of mine was complaining about the increase in Pseudo Gurus all over and I told him that Pseudo Gurus thrive  because there is a market ready for them  in the form of brainless devotees who expect quick fix solutions to all their problems . We have instant food , instant coffee , instant ATM machine ,instant messaging etc and so also we want a Guru who gives us instant Moksha . "
Lord Krishna ,talks of 4 types of Devotees in Bhagwad Gita
(Bhagwat Gita: Chapter 7 verse 16)
Sri Krishna said: O Arjuna, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me—the distressed, the inquisitive, the desirer of wealth, and the one who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute."

The distressed and desirer of wealth are in Majority and the inquisitive and searching for knowledge of absolute are in Minority and you know now why Pseudo Gurus are mushrooming a lot .They focus on the Majority as that is where the Market is .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha