Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759092 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2520 on: October 20, 2012, 03:19:00 PM »
Dear Anil,

Ravi said: one may let go of the idea that creates in us the sense of separateness of thoughts, that  may come and go.

Thoughts do not come and go on their own. Sri Bhagavan says in order to keep away the jungle of thoughts, keep one
thought and stick to it. To keep away a dozens of rats in  a house, there is no need to drive them out individually. (even
though Sri Bhagavan recommended this in Who am I?) But a better way would be to keep one cat. The cat (one thought)
will make all other rats (jungle of thoughts) disappear.   

Again these are all the elements of practice in self inquiry.

Sri Sadhu Om says: One cannot take medicine  by 'not remembering monkey'. But one can take medicine comfortably,
by 'thinking of elephant'.

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 363: Concentration and all other practices are meant for recognizing the absence of
i.e. non existence of avidya.

Again He says in Talks 426: The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts and the degree of concentration on a single thought,
are the measures to gauge the progress.

Again in Talks 435:

D: Concentrate on the Self. How to do it?

B: If that is solved everything else is solved.

Again Talks 454:

B: So long as this duality (between sadhana and sadhya) lasts, the practice of self inquiry must be continued. i.e until the
individuality disappears  and the Self is simultaneously realized to be the only eternal BE-ing.

Again in Talks 485: Your thoughts and desires are part and parcel of mind. The mind is simply fattened by new thoughts rising
up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of mind. The only way to do is to find its source, and hold on to it......

Again Talks 520: One does not aspire for liberation while in sleep. The aspiration arises only in the waking state. The function of the
waking state are those of the ego, which is synonymous with I. Find out who this I is. On doing so and abiding as I, all these doubts
will be cleared up.

Again Talks 597: The powers are sought (occult powers etc.,) by the mind which must be kept alert where the Self is realized when the mind is destroyed. The powers manifest only when there is the ego. The ego makes you aware of others and in its absence there are no others to be seen. The Self is beyond the ego, and is realized only when the ego is eliminated......

Again Talks 609: Even a single effort to still at least a single thought will go a long way to reach the state of quiescence. Effort is required and it is possible only in the waking state only. There is the effort here. There is awareness also. The thoughts are stilled. ......


Arunachala Siva.

     

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2521 on: October 20, 2012, 03:46:24 PM »
Subramanian,
What are you saying through all those quotes?I am not sure whether you read whatever I have posted,beginning with my response to Anil:
"Anil,wonderfu post on how self-enquiry deepens"
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2522 on: October 20, 2012, 03:54:05 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I meant only:

1. Thoughts may come and go - will not hold good. If you drive one thought, another thought will take its place. Thoughts
should be driven out only by holding one thought. Even that thought will go away in due course as self inquiry progresses.

2. Self Inquiry deepens only when it is practiced and not otherwise.  What Narayana Aiyar wrote is correct. That is why
Sri Bhagavan used the words, concentration, effort, practice, perseverance etc., in several of His Talks.

3. Merely allowing thoughts to have a riot on our mind, mind can never become quiescent.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2523 on: October 20, 2012, 03:55:25 PM »
Subramanian,
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2524 on: October 20, 2012, 04:05:54 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“Just like one has to simply sleep and not Practise Sleep by trying hard to so.One just lets go and falls asleep.Yet,this 'Letting Go' is not sleep.

Likewise one has to let go of the 'idea' that one is bound;This one has to do by reminding oneself that 'one is free'.Yet this 'Idea' that one is free is still only an 'idea' and it is this 'Idea' that creates in us the sense of being seperate from 'thoughts' that may come and go.One has to let go of this idea as well to be in samAdhi.This is done by pursuing 'self-enquiry' or self surrender.
The one who is in samadhi experiences everything as happening within him and has no sense of differentiation.He does not have to stay apart from thoughts or ignore them.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

What you have said in your last post is, in my view, perfectly all right, and is in accord with Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching. Although Sri Ravi Sir would himself explain better, I feel what he means to convey is as follows:

As one lets go and falls sleep, likewise one has to let go of the idea also that one is bound by reminding oneself that one is free. However, this reminder that ‘one is free’ is only an idea till it is corroborated by true experience, that is, Revelation, Knowledge and Abidance in the State of Being, ending permanently thus the ego’s play. Sri Ravi says that this is done by Self-enquiry or the self-surrender.

Dear sir, I agree with Sri Ravi that once one is realised and remains perennially in Samadhi in the thoughtless state, that thoughtless state cannot be disturbed or obstructed whether thoughts arise or they do not arise. As I understand when  one is ever rooted in Self-attention naturally or spontaneously in Sahaja, only functional thoughts would arise and go away without creating impression or further bondage.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2525 on: October 20, 2012, 04:39:29 PM »
Dear Anil, Ravi,

1. I have no quarrel when Ravi said the thoughts of bondage and freedom comes to one who thinks I am bound. This is what
Sri Bhagavan has also said in the penultimate verse of Ulladu Narpadu.

2. What I differed from Ravi is on two points: 1. Sleep comes naturally when man's body and mind is tired.  One cannot practice
sleep. No doubt. But one has to practice Self Inquiry, because it is done is wakeful State. There the thoughts rush up. One has to
overcome it.   2. To say that self realized Jivan Mukta   (one who is in Samadhi - in Sri Bhagavan's case it is Sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi),,
one cannot say that He has no sense of differentiation and he does not have to stay apart from thoughts or ignore them - is incorrect,
in my view. When thoughts do not rise at all since the mind/ego is killed, where is the question of staying apart from thoughts or
ignoring them? It is like saying a bachelor is staying away from his wife or is ignoring him.

Arunachala Siva.         

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2526 on: October 20, 2012, 10:05:02 PM »
subramanian,
I am not adding anything more to what I have already said.Anil has got it correctly.If you wish you may read what is posted;otherwise also it is okay as long as you are clear about whatever you have understood.
Namaskar.




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2527 on: October 21, 2012, 09:57:09 AM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

Please give the no. of the verses you have posted so that I may see the context, if I so desire, in which the Teaching has been revealed.
Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2528 on: October 21, 2012, 09:59:04 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Ultimate Reality is One and Absolute.  Ultimate Existence is One and Absolute. Is it not? Then why does the world appear as an object seen and as different from the subject who sees it? Who is it, what is it, that sees the world as distinct from himself, the subject?
Yes, we understand that after Realisation such question would not arise, for Existence is One and Absolute. So, we admit that the question has any significance only until the Realisation. Till then the question remains and it has to be answered. But any answer we come out with will be only relative and therefore illusory, because the one who comes out with an answer is himself a relative truth and therefore illusory.
We understand, at least intellectually, if not experientially, that there is no answer to the question why does the world appear as an object different from the subject who sees it. THEREFORE, THERE IS NO ANSWER TO SUCH QUESTION IS THE ONLY ANSWER, BECAUSE THE QUESTION UTSELF DOES NOT ARISE. 
WHY SO?
In order to know the truth ‘I’ who seek to know it must exist as such, i.e., as MYSELF, THE PRIMAL BEING. IT IS THEREFORE ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE THAT MYSELF, THE PRIMAL BEING IT IS THAT I SHOULD KNOW FIRST INSTANCE. Should we not?
I say that I do not know the truth and desire to know it. Is it not only me then that the knowledge or ignorance is predicated.
The paradox is: Existence or the Reality is One and Absolute, one must exist to know anything, but there is no knowing of an object by a subject, or a subject seeing an object different from it, for Existence is One and Absolute and there can be no question and no answer in One Absolute Existence.
It is on account of this difficulty that Sri Bhagwan teaches that instead of engaging out mind with such thoughts, we should direct it towards the Enquiry as to what truly ‘I’ ITSELF is.
Through this Enquiry, we can find, as a matter of experience, and not as something to think or argue about, that what remains ALONE AND ABSOLUTE IS THE SELF.
Dear devotees, what remains alone is the Self, THE ABSOLUTE EXISTENCE, AND THE KNOWLEDGE IS THE ABIDING EXPEREINCE SO THAT THE QUESTION WHY THE WORLD SHOULD APPEAR AS AN OBJECT SEEN BY A SUBJECT CANNOT AT ALL ARISE. HOW CAN A QUESTION THAT DOES NOT ARISE HAVE AN ANSWER?

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
       
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2529 on: October 21, 2012, 10:14:31 AM »
Dear Anil,

Very nicely stated.

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks 455:

"Where are you now that ask this question? (am I part of the creation?). Are you in the world, or is the world within you?
You must admit that the world is not perceived in your sleep although you cannot deny your existence then. The world appears
as you wake up. So where is it? clearly the world is your thought. Thoughts are your projections. The 'I' is first created and then
the world. The world is created by the 'I' which in its turn rises up from the Self. The riddle of the creation of the world is thus solved
if you solve the creation of the 'I'. So find your Self......When one sees the world, one does not see oneself. When one sees (realizes)
the Self, the world is not seen. So see (realize) the Self and realize that there has been no creation and there is only the Self which
is One but appears as many till your realization."

Arunachala Siva.       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2530 on: October 21, 2012, 04:06:06 PM »
Quote:
“When one sees the world, one does not see oneself. When one sees (realizes)
the Self, the world is not seen. So see (realize) the Self and realize that there has been no creation and there is only the Self which
is One but appears as many till your realization."

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. When one sees the snake, rope is not seen; when one sees the wood, the elephant is not seen; when one sees the stone, the dog is not seen. Likewise, when one sees the world, the Oneself, the Self or the Swarupa is not seen and when one sees Oneself, the world is not seen.
Dear sir, I wish to say that this is the nature of Existence. I would like to explain it as follows:

Sri Bhawan says that ALL-POWERFRUL EXISTENCE underlies the appearance of the trinity of knower, known and the knowledge.
Self or Brahman is immobile. But we also concede or accept that the Self or Brahman or Existence is all powerful. Power implies movement.
Therefore, we understand that though God moves by His power which is movement, He transcends the movement, for He is Achala Sri Arunachala.
Truth is only One. Is the Power separable from the Powerful? Both are two aspects of one and the same Truth.
At present we are looking at the movement and call it Shakti which gives rise to the body and the world appearance. However, if we settle ourselves in the SUPPORT of the movement, we call Him Self, or Brahman or Shiva or the Eternal Ishwara. BUT WITHOUT THE MOVEMENT OF THE POWER OR SHAKTI, ETERNAL SHIVA OR THE SWRUPA CANNOT BE APPREHENDED. Creating myriads of worlds, bodies and forms is the eternal activity of the Eternal Shiva.
Sri Bhawan says that this whole movement, the creation, which is called a play of Shakti, is a mere formulation, mere imagination or ‘kalpana’ of the Lord. THEREFORE, IF THIS FORMULATION OR THE ‘KALPANA’ OF THE LORD IS TRANSCENDED, WHAT REMAINS IS SWARUPA.

Pranam,
  Anil


       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2531 on: October 21, 2012, 05:47:56 PM »
Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says in Navamanimalai:

Sivakama Sundari for a change is 'achalai' non moving. Natraraja in Chidambaram dances before Her.
But She becomes quiescent in Ahalam, Siva, in Arunachala.  So Arunachala
Siva beomes two in one in Arunachala. Both Sakti and Sivam.; Because it is here, she wanted half the form of
Siva to become Ardhanari.

paham pen uru AnAi poRRi.... You have become half woman, I salute You, says Tiruvachakam.

There is a funny story on this. Meenakshi had three breasts while born. The Pandyan king was worried. The astrologers
said: Don't worry. Her third breast will disappear when she meets her husband.  Meenakshi is the queen princess. She
goes out for war conquering lands upto Himalayalas. There she wanted to win over Himalayas also. Then Siva comes there.
She lost one of her breasts there on seeing Siva and became shy because He was going to be her husband. Then all devas
came and asked Siva to come to Madurai and there He marries her. Thereafter, she becomes Ardhanari. So as Ardhanari,
she has got now only one breast. She wanted to safeguard that breast for years to come.  Why? Because when Tiru Jnana
Sambandhar was born and when the young child Sambandha cried, she gave him milk to him to drink. This milk is no ordinary
milk. It is Jnana Milk. So he started singing immediately thereafter. Sambnadha was only 3 years old then. His first song praises
both Parvati and Siva. I shall give this verse later.

Arunachala Siva.     
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2532 on: October 22, 2012, 09:46:34 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Following lines in the ‘Ramana Puranam’ are said to have been composed by Sri Bhagwan Himself:

To those who love you, you are the near one,
to those who do not, you are the far one.
Am I worthy to know
And speak of your noble nature?
     Lines 297-98, Ramana Puranam

Unique Essence
that cannot be perceived objectively
through the false imaginings
of the flawed mind,
but can only be known
through the perfect consciousness
of Atma swarupa, mauna!
Lines 287-88, Ramana Puranam

You are the unmoving reality, the Atma Jnana
that rises to bestow an excellence of clarity
on the deluding distortions that mask the jiva,
which are merely reflections
upon the mirror of the shaking mind.
Such is your nature!
Lines 289-91, Ramana Puranam

When even the Four Vedasand the Agamas,
rising up arrogantly to describe your nature,
fell silent, their presumption quelled,
it is indeed an occasion for great mirth
that I should speak of
your glory and distinction, your actions,
the nobility of your attributes,
your name and your fame
Lines 299-302, Ramana Puranam

You hold maya, which creates the illusion
that this nature does not exist,
totally under your control
SUCH THAT AWARENESS OF THOSE
WHO HAVE OBTAINED YOUR GRACE
DOES NOT STIR EVEN SLIGHTLY.
Lines 292-94, Ramana Puranam

Dear devotees, SUCH IS HIS NATURE THAT AWARENESS OF THOSE WHO HAVE OBTAINED HIS GRACE DOES NOT STIR EVEN SLIGHTLY. Therefore, obtain His Grace by performing the great tapas. And Sri Bhagwan revealed to SrI Ganapati Muni thus:
“IF ONE WATCHES WHENCE THE NOTION ‘I’ ARISES , THE MIND IS ABSORBED INTO THAT; THAT IS TAPAS.”
Dear devotees, hasn’t Sri Bhagwan said that there is no Vichara without Grace nor is the Grace active without Vichara?

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil 


   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2533 on: October 22, 2012, 09:54:28 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. As Vedas and Upanishads cannot describe Brahman, they cannot describe the state of a Jivan Mukta like Sri Bhagavan.
He confers Awareness to people who love Him and such devotees always experience closeness with Him. He is far far away,
for those who do not love Him.

Love transcends the distance. Love brings proximity. Love brings Grace.

Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2534 on: October 22, 2012, 01:52:16 PM »
Only when the Self, TRUTH OF LOVE, is realised will the powerful tangled knot of life be untied. Only when the supremacy of love merges with you has the blessing of liberation been attained. THIS IS THE HEART OF ALL TRUTH-DECLARING RELIGIONS.
                                                           V. 652, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhawan says that love of an object is an inferior order and cannot endure. Love that endures is the Self, for Self is Truth of Love, God is Love. How else relatives and kith and kin are dear to us? Because we believe they are ourselves. Everything is dear because of love of the Self.
WHEN THE SELF REMAINS ALONE, THAT IS THE REAL LOVE. Sri Bhagwan says that one who knows the secret of that Love finds the world itself full of Universal Love.  This Love, that is, Love of the Self, which is extremely pure and arises naturally and spontaneously towards everything else, in truth, is our Swarupa. 
Dear sir, this is what is meant by the second line of the cited verse above:
‘ONLY WHEN THE SUPERMACY OF LOVE MERGES WITH YOU HAS THE BLESSING OF LIBERATION BEEN ATTAINED. “

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil