Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755951 times)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2490 on: October 17, 2012, 12:28:26 PM »
Dear Anil,

Nice post. Thanks. Sri Bhagavan calls it as antra srvana, antra manana and antra nididhyasana.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2491 on: October 17, 2012, 03:55:17 PM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“We say tjhat -

miind shoudl not pacify the mind.

Mind should not identify the mind.

Mind should ignore the mind.

What is that thing with which we do all these? Is it not with the mind?

See Sri Bhagavan's Ashtakam, Verse 5.”


Quote from Sri Beloved Absract:
“who is this "i" that is ignoring the mind ?
this separate you that you are talking about IS the mind .
this "us" that "you" don't want the mind to overtake ... IS the mind .

the mind is a funny thing  indeed .. lol”   


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Beloved Abstract,

Beautiful!
Sri Bhagwan says in ‘Day by Day with Bhagwan’ that the three states owe their existence to ‘avichara’ or non-enquiry. Vichara or Enquiry puts an end to them. However much one may explain, the fact will not become clear until one attains Self-realisation and wonders how he was blind to the self-evident and only existence so long.
Kaivalya Navaneeta has asked and answered six questions about Maya. The fourth question is :How did Maya arise?
THE ANSWER IS: THROUGH AVICHRA OR NON-ENQUIRY, THROUGH FAILURE TO ASK: WHO AM I?
Source: Day by Day with Bhagwan

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil
   



eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2492 on: October 17, 2012, 05:52:33 PM »
Quote from Sri Tushninm:
"I" is the Self, its not mind.
and yet this statement is for the mind and not the Self.
Because Self does not need it.
Body does not care for it.
So only mind gets this statement


Dear Sri Tushnim:

Yes. ‘I’ is the Self, it is not the mind and only mind gets this statement.

Consider our sleep. We  were then not aware of the body-mind complex. These appear in our wakeful state.
Sri Bhagwan: Consider to whom they appear. (in the waking state)
Devotee: To the mind.
Sri Bhagwan : Watch the mind.  YOU MUST STAND ALOOF FROM IT. You are not the mind.  AND THE SELF WILL REMAIN OVER.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2493 on: October 18, 2012, 09:06:27 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“Sri Bhagavan calls it as antra srvana, antra manana and antra nididhyasana.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

What follows is a conversation from Talk—21:
Why is it said that the knowledge born of hearing is not firm, whereas that born of contemplation is firm?
Sri Bhagwan : ON THE OTHER HAND IT IS SAID THAT HEARSAY KNOWLEDGE IS NOT FIRM, WHEREAS THAT BORN OF ONE’S OWN REALISATION IS FRIM. It is also said that hearing helps the intellectual understanding of the Truth, that meditation makes the understanding clear, and finally that contemplation brings about realisation of Truth. Furthermore, they say also that all such knowledge is not firm and that it is firm only when it is clear and intimate as gooseberry in the hollow of one’s palm.
Moreover, Sri Bhagwan says that there are those who affirm that hearing alone will suffice, because a competent person who had already, perhaps in previous incarnations, qualified himself, realises and abides in peace as soon he hears the Truth told him only once, whereas the person not so qualified must pass through the stages prescribed above, before falling into Samadhi.

Dear sir, as I have understood Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, all these outward and intellectual understanding of saravana, manana and nidhidhyasana cannot remove doubts. So the outward sravana, manana and nidhidhyasana notwithstanding,Sri Bhawan says that there are also INWARD sravana, manana and nidhidhyasana.
INWARD SRAVANA, MANANA AND NIDHIDHYASANA MUST OCCUR. AND THEY MUST OCCUR TO A PERSON AS A RESULT OF THE MATURITY OF THE MIND. Sri Bhagwan says that those who are able to do that ANTARA SRAVANA (HEARING INWARDLY) do not have any doubts.
What is Antara Sravana, Antara Manana and Antara Nidhidhyasana?
Sri Bhagwan says that Antara Sravana means the knowledge of of that Self which is in the Cave of the Heart always illuminated with the feeling ‘Aham, Aham’ (‘I-I’), and to get that feeling to be in one’s Heart is Antara Manana, and to remain in one’s Self is Antara Nidhidhyasana.

Therefore, dear sir, if Destination is inward, inward, inward must be the Path.
REAL SRAVAN IS ANTARA.
REAL MANANA IS AANTARA.
REMINING IN ONE’S SELF IS ANTARA NIDHIDYASANA.

AND THEREFORE, VICHARA IS ANTARA, IT IS THE INNER QUEST.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2494 on: October 18, 2012, 09:24:21 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes The usual procedure that a disciple follows, viz, sravanam, mananam and nididhyasanam - are not there in Self Inquiry.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2495 on: October 18, 2012, 09:31:29 AM »
Dear Devotees,

CAN THE THIEF BETRAY ITSELF? The mind cannot find itself. Sri Bhagwan says that we ignore what is real and are holding on to the mind which is unreal and trying to find what it is. Mind cannot be found by us and we cannot pacify it or not pacify it. The mind is not ‘US’. If the mind is, it can be checked, pacified or not pacified. But it is not.
Dear devotees, greatness of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching lies exactly here:
Sri Bhagwan : Understand this truth by search. SEARCH FOR UNREALITY IS FRUITLESS. THEREFORE, SEEK THE REALITY, I.E. THE SELF. THAT IS THE WAY TO RULE OVER THE MIND.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhawan says that we ignore the Real and are holding on to what is unreal, i.e., the mind which is bundle of insentient thoughts. Instead, we must ignore the unreal which is the mind and hold on to the Self, WHICH IS THE ONLY ONE THING REAL, TEANCIOUSLY AND STEADFASTLY.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2496 on: October 18, 2012, 04:49:22 PM »
O mind, do not waste your life in roaming outside, pursuing wonders and courting enjoyments; to know Self through Grace [Self-enquiry], and to thus abide firmly in the Heart, is alone worthwhile.
                                                V. 188, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om

O mind, it is not wise for you to come out in the form of thoughts; it is best to go within. Hide yourself deep within the Heart and escape from the tricks of Maya, who tries to upset you by drawing you outwards.
                                               V. 187, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om

KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU.
SRI BHAGWAN SAYS, “BE SURE THAT THE HEART IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD.”

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
   Anil
 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2497 on: October 19, 2012, 08:50:44 AM »
When in the time and place that are the form of the Self, the Self that is the form of the Self revealed and gave itself to the Self that is the form of the Self, so that the Self that is the form of the Self joyously attained the Self—in that moment the Self comprehended the Self that is the form of the Self.
                                                          V. 1021, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

Dear Devotees,

In this cryptic and convoluted Verse, Sri Muruganar, the Poet, attempts to explain how His Realisation came about. IT IS NOT THE CASE OF THE JIVA, A PERSON CALLED Sri Muruganar realising the Self. NO JIVA CAN EVER REALISE THE SELF. SRI MURUGANAR DOES NOT SAY, “I HAVE REALISED THE SELF.” He says that the SELF REALISED THE SELF. Truth is that the Self that is Sri Bhagwan Ramana made itself known to the Self that is the essence and the true from of Sri Muruganar. In that Revelation, the Self within Sri Muruganar became aware of Itself. THERE IS NO SECOND ENTITY WHATSOEVER IN THE ATTAINMENT OF ONE’S OWN SWARUPA, THE SELF. Sri Bhawan says that there is no question of union or yoga in the sense of going and joining something that is somewhere away and different from us, because we are never separate from the Self.
“in that moment the Self comprehended the Self that is the form of the Self.”
The above line means that in that moment of Revelation and Knowledge, Self became aware of Its own True Nature within the form of Sri Muruganar, leaving Sri Muruganar with the True Knowledge that He was the formless Self rather than the limited entity called Sri Muruganar.   
By “in the time and place which are the form of the Self”, we should understand that the Self does not realise Itself at any particular time or in any particular place. SINCE TIME AND SPACE ARE BOTH UNREAL, BEING NOTHING BUT A FALSE APPEARANCE IN THE TRUE SELF, the experience of a Jnani is that He, the Self has ever known Himself AT ALL TIMES AND IN ALL PLACES. For His ignorance is non-existent, and therefore, though in the outlook of others it may appear as if He has attained Jnana at a particular time and in particular place, in His own outlook He does not truly feel that He was once in ignorance and has now attained Jnana.
Dear devotees, the Poet’s State of egolessness, bestowed upon Him by the Grace of the Guru, is palpable and can be easily discerned in the Verse itself.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2498 on: October 19, 2012, 10:12:03 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. For one who has realized the Self, there is no time and space. Even for ordinary people like us, when the mind is set,
in deep sleep, there is no time and space. We sometimes wonder, 'O, I have slept 7 hours today. It appears that I went to\
bed only just now.' So time and space appear only when the ego/mind and body operate. Sri Bhagavan says in Sad Darsanam, Verse 16:

'Without us there is no time nor space. If we are only bodies, we are caught  up in time and space. But are we bodies? Now, then,
and always, -- here, now, everywhere, -- we are the same. We exist, timeless and spaceless, we.

In fact, we and Iswara are one and the same. But this upadhi (adjuncts) of body and mind only cause the difference.
Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 24 of Upadesa Saram:

In the nature of their being creature and creator
Are in substance one.
They differ only
In adjuncts and awareness.

Arunachala Siva.         

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2499 on: October 19, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »
Dear Tusnim,

No doubt. We are always the Self. So we should not say Self realized the Self? But why do we say that?
Here Sri Bhagavan says one beautiful example. One lady is already wearing her necklace. Suddenly she
forgot where the necklace had gone. She searches all over her house. No luck. Suddenly, her husband points
out that the necklace is on your own neck. Why are you searching? Then she realizes that she has been searching
for something which is already on her neck. So is the case with the Self.

Sri Bhagavan used to give another example of the 'tenth man.' Ten fools crossed the river. After reaching the other
bank, they being fools count their numbers. Each one counts leaving himself. So they found only nine people!  They
started crying that one man had drowned himself in the river. Then a person comes and wonders. He says - Do not worry.
I shall find the tenth man. He gave one beating to each one and asked them to count. They counted one, two, three etc.,
Finally the tenth man counted ten! All were happy seeing the mysterious ability of that intelligent man.

Here the husband of the lady and the intelligent man are the Gurus. The Guru should say: You are That. Then only
even though we are the Self we 'realize' the Self, like the lost necklace and the tenth man.

A modern example could be the spectacles. We many times search for the spectacles though they are on our nose!

Arunachala Siva.               

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2500 on: October 19, 2012, 11:17:11 AM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

The Self-realised Jnani Poet, Sri Muruganar knows better than any one of us. He says :
When in the time and place that are the form of the Self, the Self that is the form of the Self revealed and gave itself to the Self that is the form of the Self, so that the Self that is the form of the Self joyously attained the Self—in that moment the Self comprehended the Self that is the form of the Self.

HE SAYS, “SELF COMPREHENDED THE SELF.”
HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ABOVE? I would like to be enlightened with your views. I feel that I have understood as has been explained in the GVK itself. Although I do not wish to have any different understanding regarding the same, nevertheless, I would like to see your and others’ views.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
                                       


Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2501 on: October 19, 2012, 11:20:13 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. Comprehending or realizing is the word. It is like comprehending the 'lost' necklace, 'lost' tenth man and the 'lost'
spectacles.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2502 on: October 19, 2012, 11:27:32 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. In my view, this is an excellent explanation of the  line " THE SELF COMPREHENDED THE SELF" in the Verse of the GVK under discussion.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil

Note: Dear sir, I wish to respond to your posts later in the evening when I am free from duty.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2503 on: October 19, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

At least the tenth man who was 'lost' and later 'found out' - is he not the same tenth man? Or was he 'created' by the
intelligent bystander?

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2504 on: October 19, 2012, 02:40:15 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

This is the example given by Sri Bhagavan Himself. If you know better than Sri Bhagavan, what can I say?

Arunachala Siva.