Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756589 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2295 on: September 18, 2012, 04:01:35 PM »
Dear Devotees,

What follows is a brief conversation from the ‘Final Talks’:

Question: Swami ji frequently says that we should meditate constantly to stay in the Self. I find that I cannot meditate constantly. When I realise that I am not meditating, the mind tells me that I should do something to get back into the Self. This is my real state, my actual condition. I cannot stay constantly in the Self.
Sri Annamalai Swami: When this thought, ‘I am not meditating’, or ‘I am not in the Self’, arises, just ignore it and go back to the Self. When thoughts such as these arise, look at them and think, ‘Not me, not my business’, and go back to the Self. DON’T WASTE ENERGY ON THINKING OR EVALUATING HOW WELL OR HOW BADLY YOU ARE DOING IN YOUR MEDITATION.

Dear devotees, ignoring the thoughts as and when they arise, as not our business, and to keep going back to the Self, like the needle of a compass which always points to north, is the right sadhana. Sri Swami emphasises that we should ignore anything that is connected to the body-mind idea, anything that is based on the notion that we are the mind or the body. If we can do this, the rising thought will not disturb or distract us. IN A SPLIT SECOND IT WILL RUN AWAY.

Dear Devotees, Sri Bhagwan has given us the analogy of the roaring and rolling waves in the sea. If a person wants to bathe in the sea, he cannot afford to wait till the waves subside. He must resolve to bathe in it, since restlessness is the name of the sea as movement is the very nature of the mind. He may wade into it slowly, and perhaps, through prior instruction, learn to duck under a wave and allow to pass over him. He would naturally hold his breath while doing so. So he would be skilled enough to duck, at a stretch, wave after wave.  This is what is meant by ignoring the thoughts as and when they arise and going back to the Self as often as one gets distracted.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2296 on: September 18, 2012, 04:18:31 PM »
Dear Sri Anil, I agree with You. With,'Watch your thoughts',i ment, Be Aware of them,and then bring your attention back to your Self. If you can watch them,you are appart from them,and that means you are not the thoughts. Not to ingludge in them,not to watch them enldesly,coz even if you want,you cant,there is constant traffic. Also,to watch the thoughts can me,watch yourself,your urges,impulses,whay you react in some way,what is the reason behind them. Like uncovering that personality,introspection,coz that can be useful for some people. Also,i think that every theaching can be understud in many ways,even Be still teaching. So,You are right,it should be cleared,and every aspect covered,if that is possible anyway.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2297 on: September 19, 2012, 11:18:55 AM »
Quote from Sri Jewell:
“Dear Sri Anil, I agree with You. With,'Watch your thoughts',i ment, Be Aware of them,and then bring your attention back to your Self. If you can watch them, are appart from them,and that means you are not the thoughts. Not to ingludge in them you,not to watch them enldesly……………... Also,i think that every theaching can be understud in many ways,even Be still teaching. So,You are right,it should be cleared,and every aspect covered,if that is possible anyway.”

Dear Sri Jewell,

Yes, I understood from your previous post itself that by ‘watch your thoughts’, you only meant their awareness while attending to the Self or ever seeking to bring back your attention to the Self. However, as you said that every aspect should be cleared or covered, I wished to caution against the practice of watching the thoughts. For, when thoughts are attended to or watched, they are sure to flourish, proliferate and develop into a stream of thoughts, leading one astray.
 Dear Sri Jewell, I appreciate your following obsevation immensely:
“If you can watch them, are appart from them,and that means you are not the thoughts. Not to ingludge in them you,not to watch them enldesly……………... “

In the beginning, I understood the essence of what you have said from Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching of Vichara or Enquiry itself.
See for instance:
“To whom are all these thoughts arising?’
“To me.”
THAT ONLY MEANS THAT I AM NOT THE THOUGHT. That means that thoughts are not ‘I’, the Self. AND WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT EGO IS ONLY A THOUGHT. Of course, this one is primal and central to all other thoughts. BUT NEVERTHELESS, A THOGUHT, THE ‘I’-THOUGHT. ‘I AM’ is not a thought, but Being. And Being is Knowledge and Knowledge is Being. 

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2298 on: September 19, 2012, 04:31:54 PM »
Dear Devotees,

 Sri Annamalai Swami, the realised devotee of Sri Bhagwan, has explained the process of ignoring thoughts very beautifully thus:

Suppose one is walking down a busy road towards one’s destination. One encounters all kinds of things. Little conversation is going on in one place. Perhaps workmen are digging a hole somewhere. Inside a store a customer may be arguing about the price of some goods, while in the middle of the road there may be a crowd of people congregating around a victim of an accident. NONE OF ALL  THESE ARE ONE’S BUSINESS, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY THAT ONE MAY  GET INTERESTED IN SOME OR ALL OF THESE ACTIVITIES AND FORGET THE REASON WHY ONE IS ONESELF OUT ON THE STREET IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Sri Swami: Don’t get excited by anything you see and hear. Just walk steadily towards your destination.
Dear devotees, Sri Swami teaches that our vasanas are all the sideshows in our head that drags our attention from our main business, WHICH IS BEING AWARE OF THE SELF. If we have no interest in them, we can walk straight to our Goal. However, if something temporarily distracts our attention, we must bring ourselves back by asking, ‘Who is interested in all this? Who is getting interested in this distraction?’ THIS WILL CERTAINLY DEFLATE THE DISTRACTING DESIRE AND IT WILL BRING US BACK TO AN AWARENESS OF OUR TRUE PURPOSE.
Sri Swami: REMEMBER, NOTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE MIND IS ‘YOU’, AND NONE OF IT IS YOUR BUSINESS. YOU DON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT  THOUGHTS THAT RISE UP INSIDE YOU. IT IS ENOUGH THAT YOU REMEMBER THAT THE THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOU.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil 

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2299 on: September 19, 2012, 05:19:00 PM »
Dear Sri Anil Ji, devotees,

I express below, some musings on this subject -

'Ignoring thoughts' is a useful process when one is agitated by thoughts and when one is predominantly under the sway of the emotions, the thoughts exhibit. But, I would like to bring into picture a different dimension to this. Self, is not some inert, lifeless, stone-like 'state'! We have seen the expressions of Sages in many scriptures, who have said in the likes that "That" is neither 'this' nor 'that' that is neither inert nor active. The word which is used to attitute to 'that' is "Turiya" which too, the Sages have said is only for the purposes of revelation alone and that, the very word is incapable of attributing "That"

One is asked to ignore thoughts, when one is controlled by thoughts, but, for the one, who is steadfast, thoughts are manifest by the will of the Self. For such a one, there is no requirement to ignore any thoughts. For such a person, thoughts are simply the waves in the ocean. Suppose one is walking down a busy road and happens to see a small puppy struggling in the middle of the road, it becomes his natural response to bring the puppy to safety.

In the quest for Self, don't you think, that thoughts and its suppression, restraint, is given too much importance over the true spirit of viveka itself.

Which is why, the words of all Sages have to be studied carefully, and preferably under a Guru. What the Sage says to one, need not be the same for the other.

Sri Bhagavan did say to the many to ignore the thoughts and remain still. But, the true purport ought to be seen with keen intellect. As it is said Yoga is Skill in action. So is stillness. Thoughts are expression of the Self. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad expresses the following:

In the beginning, there was only the Self. ... He
reflected, and saw that there was nothing but Himself,
whereupon he exclaimed, “I am” (Aham). Ever since, He has
been known within as “I.” Even now, when announcing
oneself, one says, “I am ...,” and then gives the other name that
one bears.

He was afraid. Even today, one who is alone is
afraid. But then he realized, “Since there is nothing else but
myself, what is there to fear?” It is only from [the presence of]
a second [entity] that fear need ever arise. However, he was
still unhappy. Even today, one is unhappy when alone. He
desired a mate. And so he took on the form of a being the size
of a man and woman joined in a close embrace; and then He
separated into two individuals: a man and a wife. Therefore,
as the sage Yajnavalkya has declared, this body, by itself, is
like half of a split pea. [In order to become whole again,] this
empty space must be filled by a woman. The male [half] then
embraced the female [half], and from that the human race
arose.

But the female wondered: “How can he unite with
me, whom he has produced from himself? Well then, let me
hide!” She became a cow; he became a bull and united with
her, and from that cattle arose. She became a mare; he became
a stallion. She an ass, he a donkey and united with her; and
from that solid-hoofed animals arose. She became a goat, he
a buck; she a sheep, he a ram and united with her; and from
that goats and sheep arose. In this way, he poured forth all
pairing creatures, down to the ants. Then he realized: “All this
creation is actually myself; for I have poured forth all this.”
One who knows this truth realizes that he, himself, is truly the
creator [living] within his own creation.

There is no question of ignoring thoughts once true viveka is dawned, that the thoughts are simply Manifested Self. Thoughts manifest/flow only at the will of the Self, unlike before, when thoughts flow/manifest due to fear of unknown. The ocean worry about the waves, when it realises its, just itself, throbbing. But, this may not hold true for a person who says he is thirsty being himself the great Ganges - as Bhagavan said.

The Self expresses itself in the form of Bhakti, Jnana, Prema, and so on, for the sheer joy of itself, knowing itself, loving itself. Like it is said in upanishads, one loves his spouse for his own Self and so on..

Sri Bhagavan came down when his Mother's shrine was built, he fed the squirrels, he communicated with monkeys, cow Lakshmi, Dogs, humans, he cleared and provided light to people, he led the devotees to safety, from the darkness of ajnana ignorance. He saved the broken egg with great care, he fractured his leg trying to save a cat from a dog chasing it, tears flowed when he heard the story of Kannapa Nayanar, he showed concern for his mother's health, he composed so many hymms in praise of Arunachala, he composed a prayer to Arunachala to heal his ailing mother.

Thoughts need not necessarily be untouchables. Thoughts are wonderful, They are verily the Self, yourself, ourselves. With the dawn of true viveka, ignoring thoughts also amounts to ignoring Self. Thoughts are great creation, manifestation of Brahma, thorough which the Self is able to become aware of itself. Otherwise, there is no way for the Self to know itself.

Sri Bhagavan has said that a Jnani's mind itself is Brahmam. Jnani's thoughts are verily the Vedas. His expressions and his thoughts only benefit and bless for its own Self.

.... some musings

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2300 on: September 19, 2012, 05:49:16 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

When once a sadhaka realizes that all thoughts are only the waves of the ocean of Satchit ananda, then these thoughts would
not bother him. If the sadhaka does not get this realization, then he would consider every thought to be a disturbance and try
to forcefully remove it.

Arunachala Siva.   

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2301 on: September 19, 2012, 08:41:16 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,

Here is something which Bhagavan said about all this,and i chose some observations which are very interesting to me. Mostly,answer on first question.

 Question: Who am I?

 

     'Who am I?' The physical body, composed of the seven dhatus, is not 'I'. The five sense organs… and the five types of perception known through the senses… are not 'I'. The five parts of the body which act… and their functions… are not 'I'. The five vital airs such as prana, which perform the five vital functions such as respiration, are not 'I'. Even the mind that thinks is not 'I'. In the state of deep sleep vishaya vasanas remain. Devoid of sensory knowledge and activity, even this [state] is not 'I'. After negating all of the above as 'not I, not I', the knowledge that alone remains is itself 'I'. The nature of knowledge is sat-chit-ananda [being-consciousness-bliss].

   Q: I begin to ask myself 'Who am I?', eliminate the body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', and I am not able to proceed further.

B: Well, that is as far as the intellect can go. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the truth. The truth cannot be directly pointed at. Hence, this intellectual process.

     You see, the one who eliminates the 'not I' cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am that' there must be an 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the 'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought, all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore, seek the root 'I', question yourself 'Who am I?' Find the source and then all these other ideas will vanish and the pure Self will remain. 

 Q: If I go on rejecting thoughts, can I call it vichara [self-enquiry]?

A: It may be a stepping stone. But real vichara begins when you cling to yourself and are already off the mental movements, the thought waves.

   Q: Is not affirmation of God more effective than the quest 'Who am I?' Affirmation is positive, whereas the other is negation. Moreover, it indicates separateness.

A: So long as you seek to know how to realise, this advice is given to find your Self. Your seeking the method denotes your separateness.

Q: Is it not better to say 'I am the Supreme Being' than ask 'Who am I?'

A: Who affirms? There must be one to do it. Find that one.

 Q: Is not meditation better than investigation?

A: Meditation implies mental imagery, whereas investigation is for the reality. The former is objective, whereas the latter is subjective.

Q: There must be a scientific approach to this subject.

A: To eschew unreality and seek the reality is scientific.
From David Godman's site.

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2302 on: September 19, 2012, 09:27:57 PM »
Quote
"Dear Sri Anil Ji, devotees,

I express below, some musings on this subject -

'Ignoring thoughts' is a useful process when one is agitated by thoughts and when one is predominantly under the sway of the emotions, the thoughts exhibit. But, I would like to bring into picture a different dimension to this. Self, is not some inert, lifeless, stone-like 'state'! We have seen the expressions of Sages in many scriptures, who have said in the likes that "That" is neither 'this' nor 'that' that is neither inert nor active. The word which is used to attitute to 'that' is "Turiya" which too, the Sages have said is only for the purposes of revelation alone and that, the very word is incapable of attributing "That"

One is asked to ignore thoughts, when one is controlled by thoughts, but, for the one, who is steadfast, thoughts are manifest by the will of the Self. For such a one, there is no requirement to ignore any thoughts. For such a person, thoughts are simply the waves in the ocean. Suppose one is walking down a busy road and happens to see a small puppy struggling in the middle of the road, it becomes his natural response to bring the puppy to safety.

In the quest for Self, don't you think, that thoughts and its suppression, restraint, is given too much importance over the true spirit of viveka itself.

Which is why, the words of all Sages have to be studied carefully, and preferably under a Guru. What the Sage says to one, need not be the same for the other.

Sri Bhagavan did say to the many to ignore the thoughts and remain still. But, the true purport ought to be seen with keen intellect. As it is said Yoga is Skill in action. So is stillness
Quote

Dear Nagaraj,

I agree completely with you that rejecting the thoughts is for somebody who is mostly controlled by them,and when they are destructive for that person. Well,more or less many thoughts can be destructive,in some way,so i think that,in the begining,we must to ignore them. Sure,like You said,that is not intended for everybody. But most important thing is not to be,how to say,drunk with them,unconscious,but to be aware every moment. For me,that is the most important thing. And it is true that all those teachings which we read must be used with our common sense,and our own feeling what is good for us. Like folowing some sort of intuition. At least,it is like that for me. I use only that which i believe is useful,or better to say,i dont force myself on anything,just going with that feeling. But,that also is only my way,and everyone should use what is good for him.
And in the end,when we refuse everything,or accept everything,what is left? It is the same state. And That seems to be unreachable by this mind. So we then come on this:

Quote
"Upanishad expresses the following:

In the beginning, there was only the Self. ... He
reflected, and saw that there was nothing but Himself,
whereupon he exclaimed, “I am” (Aham). Ever since, He has
been known within as “I.” Even now, when announcing
oneself, one says, “I am ...,” and then gives the other name that
one bears.

He was afraid. Even today, one who is alone is
afraid. But then he realized, “Since there is nothing else but
myself, what is there to fear?” It is only from [the presence of]
a second [entity] that fear need ever arise. However, he was
still unhappy. Even today, one is unhappy when alone. He
desired a mate. And so he took on the form of a being the size
of a man and woman joined in a close embrace; and then He
separated into two individuals: a man and a wife. Therefore,
as the sage Yajnavalkya has declared, this body, by itself, is
like half of a split pea. [In order to become whole again,] this
empty space must be filled by a woman. The male [half] then
embraced the female [half], and from that the human race
arose.

But the female wondered: “How can he unite with
me, whom he has produced from himself? Well then, let me
hide!” She became a cow; he became a bull and united with
her, and from that cattle arose. She became a mare; he became
a stallion. She an ass, he a donkey and united with her; and
from that solid-hoofed animals arose. She became a goat, he
a buck; she a sheep, he a ram and united with her; and from
that goats and sheep arose. In this way, he poured forth all
pairing creatures, down to the ants. Then he realized: “All this
creation is actually myself; for I have poured forth all this.”
One who knows this truth realizes that he, himself, is truly the
creator [living] within his own creation.

There is no question of ignoring thoughts once true viveka is dawned, that the thoughts are simply Manifested Self. Thoughts manifest/flow only at the will of the Self, unlike before, when thoughts flow/manifest due to fear of unknown. The ocean worry about the waves, when it realises its, just itself, throbbing. But, this may not hold true for a person who says he is thirsty being himself the great Ganges - as Bhagavan said.

The Self expresses itself in the form of Bhakti, Jnana, Prema, and so on, for the sheer joy of itself, knowing itself, loving itself. Like it is said in upanishads, one loves his spouse for his own Self and so on..

Sri Bhagavan came down when his Mother's shrine was built, he fed the squirrels, he communicated with monkeys, cow Lakshmi, Dogs, humans, he cleared and provided light to people, he led the devotees to safety, from the darkness of ajnana ignorance. He saved the broken egg with great care, he fractured his leg trying to save a cat from a dog chasing it, tears flowed when he heard the story of Kannapa Nayanar, he showed concern for his mother's health, he composed so many hymms in praise of Arunachala, he composed a prayer to Arunachala to heal his ailing mother.

Thoughts need not necessarily be untouchables. Thoughts are wonderful, They are verily the Self, yourself, ourselves. With the dawn of true viveka, ignoring thoughts also amounts to ignoring Self. Thoughts are great creation, manifestation of Brahma, thorough which the Self is able to become aware of itself. Otherwise, there is no way for the Self to know itself.
And now one new thought came to me,to accept is to love everything,for me. I think you are talking about that only.

Sri Bhagavan has said that a Jnani's mind itself is Brahmam. Jnani's thoughts are verily the Vedas. His expressions and his thoughts only benefit and bless for its own Self.
Quote

"Ignoring thoughts also amounts to ignoring Self." I find this true,but relativly too,coz i can say i am ignoring manifested Self. Because Self alone is unknown by me,or i would know it in the state of unconsciousness also. Is it not? That may be because of the senses,because of memory,but still,that state is still unknown,. And,in this state,that is same for me...if You understand. I can only accept this,nothing more i think.
And now some new thought came,that to accept everything,means to love everything,for me. I think You talk about that only.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 10:06:25 PM by Jewell »

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2303 on: September 19, 2012, 10:26:53 PM »


Dear Anil

"Suppose one is walking down a busy road towards one's  destination........"

So much to read since - just wanted to share that the shortest logion in the Gospel of Thomas (logion 42) simply reads

"Jesus said: Become passers-by".


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2304 on: September 20, 2012, 07:57:10 AM »
Dear cefnbrithdir

Its wonderful quote "Become passers by"

I remember another quote from The Bible, 'Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself' explained further by Swami Vivekananda? as follows - Why? because, Thy neighbor is yourself. By hurting your neighbor, you are hurting yourself, by loving your neighbor, you are loving yourself. By seeing God in your neighbor, you are seeing God in yourself! You are God, Aatma, Chaitanya, You are that Self.

Dear Jewel,

I see it in the same light you have concluded, "to accept everything, means to love everything" when it is clear that it is the Same Self in all, as revealed in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad as quoted above. Everything that is, is "That" what can be different from "That"

There is a beautiful word in Sanskrit, Akhanda, meaning, undivided, unlimited, without any break or disturbance, whole, and so on,

Nothing, what so ever, can cause any Khanda (limitation, break, disturbance, so on)

in the same spirit of the great verse:

purnamadah: 'That is complete.'
purnamidam: 'This is complete.'
purnamadah purnamidam 'That is complete, this is complete'.
purnat purna mudachyate - 'From that completeness comes this completeness'
purnasya purnamadaya - If we take away this completeness from that completeness'
purnameva vashishyate: 'Only completeness remains.'

He realises that the flow of thoughts, are just purnat purna mudachyate, purnasya purnamadaya, purnameva vashishyate.

With this viveka, with humility, what can be a barrier, thenceforth? good or bad, heat or cold, pleasure or pain, He remains unperturbed, undisturbed, at peace. Samadhi.

A Jnani's thoughts are like this. i contemplate.. a jnani's thoughts are/is mirror for the Self.

For the one who has not had the darshan of this Purnatvam, there is Khandam, Limitedness, barriers, disturbance, humps and bumps, thoughts become barrier, and so on.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2305 on: September 20, 2012, 08:05:03 AM »
Anil/jewell/nagaraj/friends,
Anil's quotation from annAmalai swami is valid for one who is enmeshed in thoughts;Nagaraj's statement that thoughts are also the play of self like waves belong to the ocean -this is for one who is aware of the ocean,i.e of the Self.
Essentially there are two approaches-to get to our essence  eliminating all that is transitory;or to accept  everything as originating from the essence,as an expression of the essence.
Both the approaches are valid and serviceable and have their place depending on the particular need in the aspirant.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2306 on: September 20, 2012, 08:27:20 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi, devotees,

yes, the object was to bring to light that thoughts need not be problem, too! While ignoring thoughts too is an important exercise, which i follow too, when i find my self being carried away by emotions. But at all other times, when there is peace, we need not really worry if there are thoughts are not, especially when one is content and aware and happy, and not under the sway of any stimulations.

Peace is important. Sri Bhagavan has said "It is therefore obvious that peace is the real thing, the reality; call that ‘shanti’, ‘soul’, or ‘Paramatma’ or ‘Self ’ — whatever you like. We all want it, don’t we?"

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2307 on: September 20, 2012, 08:47:59 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
”When once a sadhaka realizes that all thoughts are only the waves of the ocean of Satchit ananda, then these thoughts would
not bother him. If the sadhaka does not get this realization, then he would consider every thought to be a disturbance and try
to forcefully remove it.

Arunachala Siva.”   

Quote from Sri Jewell: “Q: If I go on rejecting thoughts, can I call it vichara [self-enquiry]?

A: It may be a stepping stone. But real vichara begins when you cling to yourself and are already off the mental movements, the thought waves.”

Quote from Sri cefnbrithdir:
“So much to read since - just wanted to share that the shortest logion in the Gospel of Thomas (logion 42) simply reads

"Jesus said: Become passers-by".”


Dear Devotees,

Thanks very much for your response.
Sri Bhagwan: It may be necessary for a time or for some. You fancy that there is no end if one goes on rejecting every thought when it rises. No, there is an end. If you are vigilant, and make a stern effort to reject every thought when it rises, you will find that you are going deeper and deeper into your own inner Self, where there is no need for your effort to reject the thoughts.
Therefore, yes, real Vichara begins when one clings to one’s Self and is already off the mental movement or the thought-waves. There is no doubt about that, for Vichra is not intellectual but an inner quest.

Dear devotees, so, in my view, one should not be assailed by doubts and confusion, for Sri Bhagwan Himself has taught that if one remains in the Self, or abides in the Self, what need is there for one to go rejecting thoughts? When one is already off the mental movement, or thought waves, what need is there for one to go on rejecting thoughts? Tell me. All such a one will need then is to abide in the Self and be the Self. Says Sri Annamalai Swami:
 “If you remain in the Self, enquiry will not be necessary. If you move away from the Self and go back to the mind, you then have to enquire again and go back to your Self.”
Therefore, what I meant to convey is simply this that IF WE FORGET THE STATE OF BEING OURSELVES, THEN IS THE TIME TO ENQUIRE, ‘WHO FORGETS THE SELF? WHO IS IN DOUBT? WHO IS HAVING THOUGHTS OF DOUBTS AND CONFUSION, ETC.? AND DISCARDING ALL THAT IS NOT US AND COME BACK TO OURSELVES. This what I mean.

Sri Subramanian Sir has said it nicely:
”When once a sadhaka realizes that all thoughts are only the waves of the ocean of Satchit ananda, then these thoughts would
not bother him”

Yes, we would do well to learn and understand from the following conversation:
Question: Are you always in that state of consciousness? I find that when I am busy with activities, thoughts come up and I am no longer remembering myself. I am no longer focussing on consciousness.
Sri Annamalai Swami: I don’t lose consciousness of the Self because I don’t get identified with the body and the mind. It is only in the state in which you identify with the body and the mind that problems arise.

Dear devotees, Teaching of Sri Bhagwan is without ambiguity whatever:
If one is already off the mental movement or the thought-waves, abide in the Self, Nishtha, and be the Peace and Bliss Itself.
However, if you are assailed by thoughts due to vasanas, remember you are not the thoughts, become a passer-by as Sri Annamalai Swami taught and as Sri cefnbrithdir said so beautifully, or enquire your way to your True Home, that is, YOURSELF.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
 




nobody

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2308 on: September 20, 2012, 11:31:19 AM »
Dear friends,
On the subject of thoughts, here is what I feel: At one level, you have thoughts that arise of their own accord. At another level, there are thought-causing occurrences in the outside world to which we might react interally.

For example, it is my experience that whenever I read the morning newspaper or watch news on the television, I cannot avoid reacting to the news.

These days, most news is about corruption scandals, terrorism and such other negative things.

As spiritual aspirants, I feel we should avoid newspapers, television etc as much as possible.

Personally, for me, this is easier said than done, because of the old habit of looking up the news every so often. However, I have been trying to keep away as much as possible from newspapers, television, internet etc. I have found it difficult, but with the grace of Bhagawan, I will be able to give up these things altogether. That is my prayer to Him.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2309 on: September 20, 2012, 12:44:46 PM »
Dear nobody,

I consider the distracting thoughts during inquiry - to be of three types:

1. External disturbances that cause thought waves in you. Like newspapers, blaring TVs, telephone calls etc,,

2. Internal disturbances - your own thought waves, involuntary. You suddenly think of your wife who had gone to a far
off place, or your son's illness, etc.,

3. Thought waves - moving like clouds in your mind, neither involuntary, nor voluntary, nor external.  These thoughts just
come like clouds, you suddenly remember (for no valid reason - your dead mother, or the cheating done by your business
partner some 20 years back or your college girl whose buxom breasts disturbed you about 20 years back!

All these can be overcome only by dragging the mind, which has grabbed these thoughts, back to Self attention. You
may not succeed immediately. But in due course, you may be sucessful.

PS: Do  not for that sake stop reading newspapers. Read them. No harm. Otherwise you may not know that some politician
has pledged your country to Pakistan for some millions of dollars and ran way to Dubai!


Arunachala Siva.