Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758658 times)

Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2250 on: September 10, 2012, 02:12:47 PM »
Dear Sri Vinod,

I assure you, that is wonderful to start with. Now your duty is to persevere with this supremely beneficial practice without allowing room for doubt, self-deprecation and self-distrust. Sri Bhagwan’s Grace will take care of your yoga and ksemam (Gita’s yogaksemam, V. 9-22). That is my experience.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

Dear Anil Ji,

Thank you so much for your kind support and it feels great when some one understands our feelings and its not only about this u have earned great respect in my heart, when you are the only one who has answered my query(below one) when I was suffering with it immensely and it proved to be the great suggestion one can ever give.

I am always thank full to our master, who made you to give me such suggestion.

I will be very grateful if some one gives me a light on this, as this question is very personal to me. It will be even more relaxing if any one shares teachings of our master related to the same subject.
OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!
                  

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2251 on: September 10, 2012, 02:51:47 PM »
From Anil "THE RISE OF THE URGE TO SEEK FOR THE ‘I’ IS ITSELF AN ACT OF DIVINE GRACE. ONCE THIS URGE GETS HOLD OF YOU, YOU ARE IN ITS CLUTHCHES. THE GRIP OF THE DIVINE GRACE NEVER RELAXES AND IT FINALLY DEVOURS YOU, JUST AS THE PREY IN A TIGER’S JAWS IS NEVER ALLOWED TO ESCAPE.
In making our individuality the worthy food for the Divine lies our true fulfilment!"

That is It dear Sri Anil,so true,so true. That is Sure sign of Grace,that we are here,on this quest. And,when this urge comes,IT NEVER LOSES ITS HOLDS. We are like puppets with strings in His Divine Hands. :)
O,let it play,let it play with us,and take us to our Eternal Home..even if we Are Ever There.
Glory to Lord Ramana,Glory to Lord Arunachala.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2252 on: September 11, 2012, 06:41:32 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“Truly Sri Bhagavan is indeed unique in that he so simply swept all the cobwebs and always drove home the central and most vital Teaching-Know thyself and Be free.”

Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. And His basic message to His devotees never changed.
“Do Self-enquiry, stop identifying with the body and try to be aware of the Self which is your real nature”. The Dictum “Know thyself and be free” is the essence of all religions including Vedanta and more or less everybody is familiar with it, but the ease and simplicity with which Sri Bhagwan drove this profound Teaching home is truly unique and wonderful.

Pranam,
 Anil




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2253 on: September 11, 2012, 06:43:45 AM »
Quote from Sri Vinod:
“I am always thank full to our master, who made you to give me such suggestion.”

Dear Sri Vinod,

Yes. We all are Sri Bhagwan’s children and we have gathered at His Feet only, for the Feet of Sri Bhagwan are everywhere. Therefore, remaining established to His Feet, that is, in truth, nothing other than the ‘I-I’ Consciousness at the Core of our Heart, and doing Vichara as taught by Him, will surely take us to our permanent Abode.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2254 on: September 11, 2012, 06:48:00 AM »
Quote from Sri Jewell:
“O,let it play,let it play with us,and take us to our Eternal Home..even if we Are Ever There.
Glory to Lord Ramana,Glory to Lord Arunachala.”


Dear Sri Jewell,

Yes.  Beautiful. The great Upanishad revealed, "He became ‘I’ named". So, ‘I’ is the first and most accurate Name of God. The awareness ‘I am’ is the original and primordial mantra. The ‘I’ Mantra is even prior to ‘Pranava Sound of Om’. THEREFORE, THE RISE OF THE URGE TO SEEK FOR THE ‘I’ IS UNDOUBTEDLY THE SURE SIGN OF THE MANIFESTATION OF DIVINE GRACE.

Yes, we all have gathered at His Feet. Divine Grace is in operation, to take us to our Eternal Home. Divine play is to end, and knowledge is sure to dawn that we are ever there and never left the Abode.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2255 on: September 12, 2012, 09:21:34 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan once narrated a mythological story about a quarrel between Subramania and Brahma to  Sri Annamalai Swami, which is as follows:

Subramania once looked at the world Brahma has created and saw that all the people in it were obsessed by emotions such as jealousy, anger and greed. He looked a little longer and saw that these people were nearly always miserable and that they were often fighting and quarrelling with each other. He told Brahma that this creation was badly flawed.
‘You should have created a universe filled with perfection not imperfection,’ he said. ‘Why have you filled the world with such bad people?’
When Brahma refused to concede that he had made any mistakes, the two gods had heated dispute which only ended when Subramania overpowered Brahma, imprisoned him, and wiped out the whole of his creation. To demonstrate the correctness of his arguments Subramania then decided to create a new world which would be perfect in every respect. He began his act of creation but soon discovered that it was not possible to put any life or movement into this world. Even the sun and the moon that he had created refused to move in the sky. Because the only inhabitants of this world were Jnanis, absolute stillness prevailed everywhere.
Some time later Siva came along and asked, ‘Why have you locked up Brahma?’
Subramanian replied, ‘That man was doing a lot of mischief. He was always creating people who were quarrelling and causing trouble. Look at my creation! All nishthas [people who are established in the Self].
Siva studied the world for some time before remarking, ‘There is no movement in this world; no sun, no moon. You have created a world of sunya [void].’
Subramania reviewed his creation and had to admit that Siva was correct. He released Brahma from prison and permitted him to create another imperfect world.
Bhagwan used to say that there can never be a perfect world because the world is always a creation of the imperfect mind. A perfect object cannot be made by such an imperfect tool.
He used to say, ‘While the mind exists, good and bad exist; but for Jnanis, who have no mind at all, there is no good or bad and no world.’
                                          Source: Living by the Words of Bhagwan

Dear devotees, a world created with only realised beings is no world at all, there will neither be seer, nor seeing; neither witness, nor witnessing, nor movement, nothing at all whatever. All is the Self. An entity named ‘world’ can never be perfect, for world is always the creation of the imperfect entity called mind. An imperfect entity can by no means create a perfect world.


Dear devotees, HOWEVER, THERE IS NOTHEING THERE WITHOUT OUR SELF. But by the Self, the body, subtle or gross, is not meant. Sri Bhagwan says that the idea is put to us that if once we know the Self in which all the ideas move, including the ‘Idea of ourselves’, of others like ourselves and of the world, we can realise the truth that there is a Reality, a Supreme Truth, which is the Self of all the world we now see, the Self all the selves, the one Real, the Supreme, the Eternal, as distinguished from the ego-self which is fleeting and impermanent.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil   

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2256 on: September 12, 2012, 05:26:05 PM »
Yes dear Sri Anil,

The mind,the world,all that is duality,yin and yang,and where is no duality,there is no creation either. Nothing is wrong with creation,only with our indetification with it. And ego self is nothing but that.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2257 on: September 13, 2012, 12:15:18 PM »
Dear Devotees,

A great deal has been discussed with regard to Pure and impure mind, under this topic in particular, and in the forum in general. I wish to draw your attention to the following Teaching of Sri Bhagwan with regard to the mind:

FORMLESS MIND IS THE PURE MIND. Pure mind is verily the absolute Consciousness. Pure mind is also called ‘Manakasa’ or the ‘space mind’ or the empty mind or ‘arupa mind’, etc. Sri Bhagwan has taught that immediately on waking from the sleep, clarity of awareness arises, without exception, in all people. THAT IS THE FORMLESS MIND. The thoughts such as, ‘I am the body,’ ‘this is the world,’ arise after that. This is the mind with the form. Sri Bhagwan gives the analogy of the cinema show in which the light appears first. Forms appear on the screen only after that.
LIKEWISE, THE LIGHT OF THE SELF COMES FIRST AND PROVIDES THE SPACE FOR ALL THAT FOLLOWS.

Mind and Abhasa or Reflection:

Rajasic mind is the active mind. Sattvic or Pure mind is Repose. Sri Bhagwan has, on many occasions, emphasised that The Sattvic or Pure Mind is undoubtedly the True Consciousness. SUCH BEING THE FACT, WHY THE SATTVIC OR THE PURE MIND IS STILL CALLED A MIND? AND A MIND IMPLIES ABHASA OR REFLECTIN.
It is sure to appear paradoxical from the stand-point of ignorance, but truly there is no paradox for the Realised One.  We (ignorant folk) understand that a Realised one is the Witness to all that happens before Him. Do we not? Knowledge of being witness is the function of reflection and that implies existence of the mind. But the Realised One’s mind is dead and inoperative.
In common parlance it is said that a Jivanmukta is the Knower of Brahman. But this is not absolutely true. BRAHMAN CAN NEVER BE AN OBJECT TO BE KNOWN. Therefore, for the sake of argument, or as a concession to argument, the sattvic or the Pure mind is surmised for the jnanis and even for God.
BUT, AS I UNDESATND IT, THE SATTVIC OR THE PURE MIND IS THAT IN WHICH THE OBJECT TO BE WITNESSED AND THE WITNESS ITSELF MERGE TOGETHER AND THE ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE REINS SUPREME. AND THAT IT IS THE SWARUPA , THE REAL SELF.
Sri Bhagwan  has revealed that it is not true to say that the mind arises from the absolute Consciousness first followed by reflection, or reflection arises first followed by the mind. Sri Bhagwan has revealed that rise of mind as well as reflection is simultaneous. 

Dear devotees, I have written all this as above to understand, as best as we can, why it is futile to seek to explain from the stand-point of ignorance the State of a Jivanmukta.  AND WE WILL DO MUCH BETTER IF WE UNDERSTAND AND TAKE THE STATE OF A REALISED ONE AS MERE PRESENCE, THAT IS, PURE AWARENESS, EVER PRESENT, AND EVER ONE INDIVISIBLE WHOLE.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
       
   

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2258 on: September 13, 2012, 04:34:09 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,

I am glad that you broth this topic again,coz i agree that there lies all our misunderstanding. Because,we all see in the different way what is the mind,what consciousness and what is witness. So,i believe,that is the question for all us.

quote from Anil" 
FORMLESS MIND IS THE PURE MIND. Pure mind is verily the absolute Consciousness. Pure mind is also called ‘Manakasa’ or the ‘space mind’ or the empty mind or ‘arupa mind’, etc. Sri Bhagwan has taught that immediately on waking from the sleep, clarity of awareness arises, without exception, in all people. THAT IS THE FORMLESS MIND.
True. For me,FORMLESS MIND,or the PURE MIND,or the Absolute Consciousness,is nothing but the mind without all other thoughts except one,primal thought I,or I am. Just Consciousness.

"Sri Bhagwan has, on many occasions, emphasised that The Sattvic or Pure Mind is undoubtedly the True Consciousness." True. Just Consciousness.
"SUCH BEING THE FACT, WHY THE SATTVIC OR THE PURE MIND IS STILL CALLED A MIND? AND A MIND IMPLIES ABHASA OR REFLECTIN."
 Because it is still The Mind,only without other thoughts,except one,I. The Mind implies reflection,But the Counsciousness Is reflection too.

" We (ignorant folk) understand that a Realised one is the Witness to all that happens before Him. Do we not? Knowledge of being witness is the function of reflection and that implies existence of the mind. But the Realised One’s mind is dead and inoperative. "
Dear Sri Anil i dont agree on this. I dont think that the Realised one is the Witness. The Witness is still in the realm of mind,and consciousness. That happens when the mind is pure,we are aware of the witness,and we are the witness itself. And i dont agree that for the Realised one mind is dead and inoperative. Mind,or the consciousness,cannot be dead. The mind is mind,It Is the thought itself,and there is no place for dieing,only we need to go beyond. That is not true also. Coz we cannot to go anywhere,because we are the thought itself. And the Realised one is raised beyond mind,so now the mind cannot affect Him. Only that. He dont longer indentifies Self with the mind.

"BUT, AS I UNDESATND IT, THE SATTVIC OR THE PURE MIND IS THAT IN WHICH THE OBJECT TO BE WITNESSED AND THE WITNESS ITSELF MERGE TOGETHER AND THE ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE REINS SUPREME. AND THAT IT IS THE SWARUPA , THE REAL SELF."
I dont agree,again :). The sattvic mind IS the Witness. When the object to be witnessed and the witness merge together,there is Absolute,not the mind anymore. Coz,while we are witnessing all this,we,the mind,can see the nature of it.

"Sri Bhagwan  has revealed that it is not true to say that the mind arises from the absolute Consciousness first followed by reflection, or reflection arises first followed by the mind. Sri Bhagwan has revealed that rise of mind as well as reflection is simultaneous. "
True. Because the mind is the reflection itself. Absolute Consciousness is the reflection itself. In the Absolute cannot be place for consciousness or unconsciousness,coz Consciousness itself belongs to duality. So the Absolute must be beyond both. But we only need to see what is our condition,Who we are. We cannot know the Absolute. Who is trying to know?
That way i said few days back what with the coma state. There is nothing,no witness,no consciousness. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2259 on: September 13, 2012, 05:50:54 PM »
Quote from Sri Jewel:
" We (ignorant folk) understand that a Realised one is the Witness to all that happens before Him. Do we not? Knowledge of being witness is the function of reflection and that implies existence of the mind. But the Realised One’s mind is dead and inoperative. "
Dear Sri Anil i dont agree on this”

Dear Sri Jewell, my last post is based on the Teaching of Bhagwan Sri Ramana as recorded in Talk—68. For instance, “knowledge of being witness is the function of abhasa (reflection) and that implies the existence of the mind. BUT THE REALISED ONE’S MIND IS DEAD AND INOPERATIVE” are Sri Bhagwan’s Words of Grace as revealed in Talk—68.

 Quote from Sri Jewell:
“BUT, AS I UNDESATND IT, THE SATTVIC OR THE PURE MIND IS THAT IN WHICH THE OBJECT TO BE WITNESSED AND THE WITNESS ITSELF MERGE TOGETHER AND THE ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE REINS SUPREME. AND THAT IT IS THE SWARUPA , THE REAL SELF."
I dont agree,again .”

Dear Sri Jewell, the above lines over which you have expressed disagreement has alos been quoted from the Talk—68. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘the sattvic mind is in fact Absolute Consciousness. The object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together and Absolute consciousness alone reins supreme. It is not a state of sunya. It is the swarupa, the Real Self.’

Quote from Sri Jewell:
“ Because the mind is the reflection itself. Absolute Consciousness is the reflection itself. In the Absolute cannot be place for consciousness or unconsciousness,coz Consciousness itself belongs to duality. So the Absolute must be beyond both. But we only need to see what is our condition,Who we are. We cannot know the Absolute. Who is trying to know?
That way i said few days back what with the coma state. There is nothing,no witness,no consciousness.”

Dear Sri Jewell, REALITY IS SAT-CHIT OR EXISTENCE-CONSCIOUSNESS.  Here in the quoted lines above, Sri Bhagwan is not referring to the consciousness (objective consciousness), sub-consciousness or unconsciousness, which are the attributes of the impure mind (rajasic and tamasic). Here by ‘Absolute consciousness’, Sri Bhagwan means the ‘Supreme Consciousness’ of the Sat-Chit or the Existence-Consciousness. However, I wish to know from you, “How did you reach the conclusion that ‘Absolute Consciousness  is itself the reflection ?” This is, in my view, contrary to the Vedanta’s and Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, as is obvious form the understanding of Talk—68.

Quote from Sri Jewell:
“ For me,FORMLESS MIND,or the PURE MIND,or the Absolute Consciousness,is nothing but the mind without all other thoughts except one,primal thought I,or I am. Just Consciousness.”

No, the above is also contrary to Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching.

Sri Bhagwan says:
“Sattvic mind is in fact the Absolute consciousness (mind the capital ‘A’ in Absolute). The object to be witnessed and the witness merge together and Absolute consciousness alone reins supreme.”

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil


Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2260 on: September 13, 2012, 05:59:28 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,

The way i can see it,the main reason for our confusion is that,that we cannot decide what are we exactly. The Self,God or the mind. At least it is like that for me. That is the main confusion. Thats way You say that Self Consciousness is the Absolute.
When we wake up in the morning,there is seeing,Pure Consciousness. So there everything starts,consciousness,the world,i am this and that. If in Reality there is no subject and no object,where is the room for consciousness? Is there is not subject,in the consciousness? What are we? Can we decide?

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2261 on: September 13, 2012, 06:25:42 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,

I am aware that You quote Bhagavan,but in the same time You interpret it like You see it,and understand it.
 
Quote"  For instance, “knowledge of being witness is the function of abhasa (reflection)", Yes it is the function of reflection,not the Absolute.

Quote" Sri Bhagwan says that ‘the sattvic mind is in fact Absolute Consciousness. The object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together and Absolute consciousness alone reins supreme. It is not a state of sunya. It is the swarupa, the Real Self.’ Sri Bhagavan says that the sattvic mind is in fact Absolute Consciousness,not the Supreme,or Reality. I see it this way : The object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together,so there is Absolute Consciousness. In that way we can be aware what is that mind about we are talking about,and what are we. So that will bring Supreme,knowledge of that,who we are,better to say,what is the mind exactly. And even,not to bring,but only mind will see what is the nature of mind,and in that way,die. When it sees its nature,it wont bring any concepts anymore,it wont search,it will see its nonexistence and it will surrend,so that Supreme may come forth.

Bhagavan said it,but that doasnt mean it dont have some deeper meaning behind it. Or if i understand this way,and You that way,there is room for different interpretations. I agree completly with Bhagavan said,and i dont see how my thinking differ from that. He said that much how much is needed for us to start,and like He said also,See for yourself. That Is investigation,that Is selfenqiury.




Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2262 on: September 13, 2012, 06:35:14 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,

Quote" Quote from Sri Jewell:
“ For me,FORMLESS MIND,or the PURE MIND,or the Absolute Consciousness,is nothing but the mind without all other thoughts except one,primal thought I,or I am. Just Consciousness.”

No, the above is also contrary to Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching.

Sri Bhagwan says:
“Sattvic mind is in fact the Absolute consciousness (mind the capital ‘A’ in Absolute). The object to be witnessed and the witness merge together and Absolute consciousness alone reins supreme.”

The sattvic mind is the Absolute consciousness,but stiil consciousness. How any kind of consciousness can be Reality? That implies duality,subject.

Quote" However, I wish to know from you, “How did you reach the conclusion that ‘Absolute Consciousness  is itself the reflection ?” This is, in my view, contrary to the Vedanta’s and Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, as is obvious form the understanding of Talk—68.

I reach it by investigation,like You doo. For me there is no room for Absolute Consciousness,Consciousness or unconsciousness,coz all implies subject. And in Reality there is no subject. Also,this world Is Consciousness,so there is no room for Reality,in the ultimate sence.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2263 on: September 13, 2012, 06:38:53 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Yes. I had been to Tiru. for the past for days. And during book reading, the same thing came up coincidentally. Sri Bhagavan has
told  Suri Nagammal, when the reflection is lost, then the Pure Mind which is itself Consciousness is there. This Consciousness can
only be experienced and not described in words.  Only at that stage, all the world would look as Brahma Swarupam. Till such time,
the world would appear as world in dream and wakeful state and be in suspended animation during deep sleep, only to rise up
as I thought when  we are awake and the world appears again as world only!

Arunachala Siva.       

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2264 on: September 13, 2012, 07:02:02 PM »
Hello dear Sri Subramanian!! I was thinking where have You gone. We missed Your participation.

Sir,are You sure that Bhagavan said exactly that: " when the reflection is lost, then the Pure Mind which is itself Consciousness is there. "? I cannot find any sense in that statement.