Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756404 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2220 on: September 07, 2012, 08:07:29 PM »
Dear Vinod,

Once Nochur Venkataraman said in his discourse: If you are a sadhaka and when some 'ordinary' friend comes to your house,
and disturb you from spiritual reading or meditation, you do one thing: You call him inside and start reciting Ulladu Narpadu,
verse by verse. As you complete the first benedictory verse, that friend would excuse himself and go away without even
taking the cup of coffee, that you had offered!

Arunachala Siva. 

Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2221 on: September 07, 2012, 08:16:09 PM »
Ahahahaha! Good one.

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2222 on: September 08, 2012, 08:21:56 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“There is nothing wrong in your state. Outsiders cannot understand what is happening in one's mind. Sri Sankara speaks
about realized persons that they would move like madmen, like child, like an eccentric etc., This is true in the case of sadhakas
also. Their inner struggle is not known to outsiders.

One more thing. Such sadhakas do not spend time in watching TVs or listening to cinema songs, or just chit-chatting etc.,
It is something peculiar for onlookers. They think: O this man is going to become a Sannyasi!  That is all, they can say.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

This is a wonderful post. Outsiders who are not spiritually initiated by His Grace cannot know the state of the mind of a sadhaka and be aware of the churning going on in him in which all the imperfection and ephemeral nature of the worldly existence are glaringly and brutally exposed. We all have gone through this ordeal. Complete Faith in the Guru and perseverance in practice, as taught by Him, are the watch words in these circumstances.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
 Anil

Dear Sri Vinod,

It is wonderful to learn that you have reached the Great and Straight Path of Atma-Vichara at such a young age. You are graced indeed. There is no doubt about that. You have mentioned in your post that you concentrate on the self with keeping the mind less active with unnecessary thoughts. I assure you, that is wonderful to start with. Now your duty is to persevere with this supremely beneficial practice without allowing room for doubt, self-deprecation and self-distrust. Sri Bhagwan’s Grace will take care of your yoga and ksemam (Gita’s yogaksemam, V. 9-22). That is my experience.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2223 on: September 08, 2012, 08:26:43 AM »
Sri Bhagwan : Enquire “Who am I?” Sink deep within and abide as the Self. That is Shiva as Be-ing.
“Shiva is always realised here and now. If you think you have not realised Him it is wrong. Give up that thought and realisation is there.”

Dear Devotees,

Therefore, the thought that we are not realised is the obstacle. There can be no individual without Shiva the Substratum. Even now we are all He only.

There is no question of time. The question of time for the Realisation of the Self is akin to someone mistaking a rope in the darkness for a snake and asking how many years it will take for the snake to die. If  the rope really becomes the snake we may think to kill it. So also, if there be a moment of non-realisation, the question of realisation can arise.
“But as it is you cannot be without Him. He is already realised, ever realised and never non-realised.”

Dear devotees, such being the Reality, why does Sri Bhagwan say:
“Ishta Devata and Guru are aids—very powerful aids on this path. But an aid to be effective requires effort also. YOUR EFFORT IS SINE-QUA-NON. “
Because it is we who should see the sun. The spectacles and sun cannot see for us. So also, it is we who should see our real nature.

Self is ever realised. The spurious thought that we are the body is obstructing us from seeing our real nature. AND ONE’S SENSE OF DOERSHIP IS CONCOMITANT WITH THE ‘I AM THE BODY’  IDEA.
Well, in fact our sense of doership is the Motive Force behind all our actions. Therefore, so long as this doership idea is dominant in us, in the realm of spirituality also, we will have to put in our best effort.  This is why Sri Bhagwan teaches that our effort is sine-qua-non. However, once the ideas “I am the body” and the concomitant idea “I am the doer” are gone by spiritual practice of either Enquiry or Surrender, one realises the Truth of the Statement: I am already realised, ever realised and never non-realised.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
 


 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2224 on: September 08, 2012, 01:45:01 PM »
Dear Anil,,

Efforts and Grace go together. To the extent one puts forth effort, one will be able to experience the Grace of Guru.

Further Sri Bhagavan has also said that God, Guru and the Self are one and the same.

In Talks 271, Dr. Syed asks Sri Bhagavan: How is Grace to be obtained?
Sri Bhagavan: Similar to obtaining the Self.
Dr. Syed: Practically, how is it to be for us?
Bhagavan: By self-surrender.
Dr. Syed: Grace was said to be the Self. Should I then  surrender to my own Self?
Bhagavan: Yes. To the one from whom Grace is sought.  God, Guru and Self are only different form of the same.
Dr. Syed: Please explain, so that I may understand.
Bhagavan: So long as you think you are the individual, you believe in God. On worshipping God, God appears to you
as Guru. On serving Guru, He manifests as the Self. This is the rationale.

Arunachala Siva.     
     

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2225 on: September 08, 2012, 03:47:32 PM »
Sri Bhagwan : Enquire “Who am I?” Sink deep within and abide as the Self. That is Shiva as Be-ing.
“Shiva is always realised here and now. If you think you have not realised Him it is wrong. Give up that thought and realisation is there.”

Dear Devotees,

Therefore, the thought that we are not realised is the obstacle. There can be no individual without Shiva the Substratum. Even now we are all He only.

There is no question of time. The question of time for the Realisation of the Self is akin to someone mistaking a rope in the darkness for a snake and asking how many years it will take for the snake to die. If  the rope really becomes the snake we may think to kill it. So also, if there be a moment of non-realisation, the question of realisation can arise.
“But as it is you cannot be without Him. He is already realised, ever realised and never non-realised.”

Dear devotees, such being the Reality, why does Sri Bhagwan say:
“Ishta Devata and Guru are aids—very powerful aids on this path. But an aid to be effective requires effort also. YOUR EFFORT IS SINE-QUA-NON. “
Because it is we who should see the sun. The spectacles and sun cannot see for us. So also, it is we who should see our real nature.

Self is ever realised. The spurious thought that we are the body is obstructing us from seeing our real nature. AND ONE’S SENSE OF DOERSHIP IS CONCOMITANT WITH THE ‘I AM THE BODY’  IDEA.
Well, in fact our sense of doership is the Motive Force behind all our actions. Therefore, so long as this doership idea is dominant in us, in the realm of spirituality also, we will have to put in our best effort.  This is why Sri Bhagwan teaches that our effort is sine-qua-non. However, once the ideas “I am the body” and the concomitant idea “I am the doer” are gone by spiritual practice of either Enquiry or Surrender, one realises the Truth of the Statement: I am already realised, ever realised and never non-realised.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
Dear Anil,,

Efforts and Grace go together. To the extent one puts forth effort, one will be able to experience the Grace of Guru.

Further Sri Bhagavan has also said that God, Guru and the Self are one and the same.

In Talks 271, Dr. Syed asks Sri Bhagavan: How is Grace to be obtained?
Sri Bhagavan: Similar to obtaining the Self.
Dr. Syed: Practically, how is it to be for us?
Bhagavan: By self-surrender.
Dr. Syed: Grace was said to be the Self. Should I then  surrender to my own Self?
Bhagavan: Yes. To the one from whom Grace is sought.  God, Guru and Self are only different form of the same.
Dr. Syed: Please explain, so that I may understand.
Bhagavan: So long as you think you are the individual, you believe in God. On worshipping God, God appears to you
as Guru. On serving Guru, He manifests as the Self. This is the rationale.

Arunachala Siva.     
     
Dear Sri Anil,dear Sri Subramanian sir,
Yes,Shiva is ever realised,coz what can be realised anyway. The ego cannot be,so when we left out the ego,there is nothing,or no one,to be realised. Who will realise what? Like Bhagavan said,our true state is ever realised,ever present,the way it is,beyond change and all this. So,there is no place for realisation or non realisation either. If there is someone who cant be realised,only need to drop the idea of who he is,and there is only That,the Self,shining in All its Glory for the ending of time,and beyond time,then everything is perfect,It Is the way It Is.
Sure,effort is needed,coz it is a matter of conviction,and deep individual conviction also,in the way that we need that much effort,how much we believe is needed for us.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2226 on: September 08, 2012, 03:54:53 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says: 'Ahandhai uru azhithal mukti', in Ulladu Narpadu, last verse.

If asked, 'Which of these three us final liberation? - With form, without form or with-and- without form? I say,
'Liberation is the extinction of the ego, which inquires 'with form, without form, or with-and -without form?'

Again in Verse 27 earlier, He says, nAn udhiyA uLLa nilai, nAm adhuvAi uLLa nilai..'

'That' we are, when 'I' has not arisen. Without searching whence the 'I' arises, how to obtain the self extinction
where no 'I' arises? Without attaining self extinction, how to stay in one's true nature, where the Self is That?

Arunachala Siva.         

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2227 on: September 08, 2012, 04:33:39 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says: 'Ahandhai uru azhithal mukti', in Ulladu Narpadu, last verse.

If asked, 'Which of these three us final liberation? - With form, without form or with-and- without form? I say,
'Liberation is the extinction of the ego, which inquires 'with form, without form, or with-and -without form?'

Again in Verse 27 earlier, He says, nAn udhiyA uLLa nilai, nAm adhuvAi uLLa nilai..'

'That' we are, when 'I' has not arisen. Without searching whence the 'I' arises, how to obtain the self extinction
where no 'I' arises? Without attaining self extinction, how to stay in one's true nature, where the Self is That?

Arunachala Siva.         
Yes Sri Subramanian sir,
Self extinction is necessary. How we can then know what is that I,which rises and make this world,this maya play. I needs to know that same I,to see its nature,then it can let go and let That,the Self to shine.
I like these verses,Thank You!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2228 on: September 08, 2012, 04:59:00 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Your question - what is That? What is the little 'I'?

 தானான தன்மயமே யல்லால் ஒன்றைத்
      தலையெடுக்க வொட்டாது தலைப்பட் டாங்கே
போனாலுங் கர்ப்பூர தீபம் போலப்
      போயொளிப்ப தல்லாது புலம்வே றின்றாம்
ஞானாகா ரத்தினொடு ஞேய மற்ற
      ஞாதுருவும் நழுவாமல் நழுவி நிற்கும்
ஆனாலும் இதன்பெருமை எவர்க்கார் சொல்வார்
      அதுவானால் அதுவாவர் அதுவே சொல்லும். 22.


What is That? That experience of Self Consciousness can be explained only by Jnanis who have attained Self
Consciousness! Sri Bhagavan says only a Jnani can understand a Jnani. However, Saint Thayumanavar says in the
above verse Akara Bhuvanam - Chidambara Rahasyam, Verse 22: If one attains that natural state, then he will only be
ever in that natural state (thanmayam in Tamizh). Nothing else would arise thereafter.  There is no seer, seen and
object seen, all are the form of Self. The camphor light will extinguish on its own. Likewise everything in the world extinguishes
itself and appears as form of Self only. Who can describe the glory of that State? If you become That, That Itself would say (what It
is!).

what is that little 'I'? The little 'I' is the objective consciousness of this, that, my and mine. It only creates a seer, an object of
sight and the seen.  This little 'I' also sprouts only from the Self. But instead of remaining where it is born, it jumps out
and then starts the whole drama of objective consciousness. This is good, that is bad. It is my book. It is mine..... all myness
and mine-ness would start its gory play.

Arunachala Siva.         

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2229 on: September 08, 2012, 05:32:27 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Dear Jewell,

What is That? That experience of Self Consciousness can be explained only by Jnanis who have attained Self
Consciousness!         

But arent we Self conscious already?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2230 on: September 08, 2012, 05:48:55 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Even though the Consciousness is within all of us, we are only self-consciousness of 'I' - the jumping jack of mind! When
this jumping jack of 'I' is quiescent in the Self, then we experience Self Consciousness.

In Tamizh, we call the I-sense as jiva bodham, the knowledge of mere jivas.
'I am' - is Siva-bodham, the experience of Sivam - Consciousness 

Arunachala Siva.   

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2231 on: September 08, 2012, 06:02:32 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

I understand that. But it is still experience,and Reality is beyond that,and there can be only one consciousness. What when we are in the deep coma,there is no consciousness of anything? Where is there Reality for us? Those are the questions which i ask myself. And always i come on same conclusion,"I cannot know it.'.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2232 on: September 08, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »
Dear Jewell,

In deep sleep, fainting and coma, the little 'I' is also there with Consciousness within. That is why when a person wakes
from sleep or when his fainting is over, or when the comatose stage is over, he wakes up and asks: Where is my wife?
What did happen to me? etc., etc., The I-sense is in suspended animation. It jumps over once the predicament is over.
So also with anaesthesia. When the effects of anaesthesia are over, the person asks. Where am I? Has my surgery been
over? Can I drink a cup of water or orange juice. I am thirsty. etc., etc.,.

Whereas the state of Consciousness i.e permanently abiding in Self takes place in waking state. And it remains for ever.
The sleeping, dreaming and deep sleep states have been conquered by such  Jnanis. Such Jnanis also do sleep, do dream.
But during those states, also, they are aware of their Experiential Bliss of the Self.

Saint Thayumanavar calls it thoongamal thoonguvathu, i.e. sleeping to the world but ever awake in Self Consciousness.

Once some devotee asked Sri Bhagavan:  Bhagavan! Since the mind is not there, can not one always be sleeping and
attain Self Realization? Sri Bhagavan smilingly said: If that be the case everyone would be self realized in  this world,
because every one sleeps at night! Self Realization can be attained  only in the state of wakefulness!

Arunachala Siva.           

Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2233 on: September 08, 2012, 06:42:33 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

I understand that. But it is still experience,and Reality is beyond that,and there can be only one consciousness. What when we are in the deep coma,there is no consciousness of anything? Where is there Reality for us? Those are the questions which i ask myself. And always i come on same conclusion,"I cannot know it.'.


Dear Jewell,
everything we experience is from and by the mind - wakefulness, dreams, dreamless sleep, hallucinations, coma, visions, astral planes and so on. The Self is the witness of all this. You say that in deep coma you were unconscious. But when do you say it - when you awake. But how can you know that you were 'unconscious' during coma? There must be some witness, isn't it? This witness is the Self. The problem for all this is identification with the mind according to non-dual teachings. When you are in coma the mind is in tamas, e.g. inactive, in ignorance and because you identify the Self with this inactive mind you 'feel' that you are unconscious too. So your pure consciousness (the Self) is aware of your unconsciousness (the mind). This feeling according to the word of the Sages fades away when you realize that you are not the mind. In Ashtavakra Gita is said: "It is true what people say that you are what you think you are". Annamalai Swami has advised us always to remember and to repeat to ourselves: "I am not this mind. I am pure consciousness". I am sure that They know why They say and advised us that. "I am that I am" means just being, not labeling "I am conscious", "I am unconscious", "I am awake", "I dream" and so on. To just be is something very unnatural for the mind and most of us have not experienced it, at least in this life. All my comment is just my opinion, so don't take it for granted.

Best wishes, Hari
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Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2234 on: September 08, 2012, 08:29:38 PM »
From Hari "But how can you know that you were 'unconscious' during coma? There must be some witness, isn't it?"
Dear Hari,
How can i know that witness? Isnt that witness part of the consciousness too? You are right when you say that i know after i woke up from coma,but only after it,not in the middle of it. From the way i look on it,witness is part of the game too. Coz,when i am unconscious it look like everything stopped that moment,i woke up,and didnt felt that i was gone. In that moment there is nothing,void. If i say witness existed then,then it will be based only on belief. Like,i am aware that i am aware,but there is someone who is aware. If there is not that someone,where is there Awareness too? I cant go far from that.
And "So your pure consciousness (the Self) is aware of your unconsciousness (the mind). "Whay You say that unconsciousness is the mind? We are conscious,are we? And what is pure consciousness? For me there is only one consciousness,like it is,it cannot be pure or not.
You are right when You say that we need just to be. For me that means just to stay put in that witness,witnessing witness,in that feeling of i am. And for someone is right to think he is consciousness,it is a matter of inclination. But i believe i that what many Sages said it too,that there is something beyond that.
You also dont take this for granted coz those are only mine thoughts,and the way i understand it.:)