Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756412 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2190 on: September 04, 2012, 07:55:36 PM »
Dear Anil, Jewell,

Saint Tayumanavar also describes the state of I am ness, where the jiva/mind/ego merges with the Self
He calls it the state, where 'Your state and my state are One state'. In that state, there is no ego, the ego
takes a beating and runs away because the Effulgence of Self cannot be tolerated by that ego! Then thereafter,
there is no good and bad deeds and merits and demerits. There is neither happiness nor misery. There is not
suttarivu, or munnilai, that is 'you' - the objective consciousness.  This state is the Grand Knowledge. There is nothing
like front and back, high and low - everywhere there is only the Self - an indescribable Bliss.  This is all due to Grace
of Guru. Hail to Him, Hail to Him, He is the Guru for me in this world as well as in the land of liberation.

உன்னிலையும் என்னிலையும் ஒருநிலை யெனக்கிடந்
      துளறிடும் அவத்தையாகி
   உருவுதான் காட்டாத ஆணவமும் ஒளிகண்
      டொளிக்கின்ற இருளென்னவே
தன்னிலைமை காட்டா தொருங்கஇரு வினையினால்
      தாவுசுக துக்கவேலை
   தட்டழிய முற்றுமில் லாமாயை யதனால்
      தடித்தகில பேதமான
முன்னிலை யொழிந்திட அகண்டிதா காரமாய்
      மூதறிவு மேலுதிப்ப
   முன்பினொடு கீழ்மேல் நடுப்பாக்கம் என்னாமல்
      முற்றுமா னந்தநிறைவே
என்னிலைமை யாய்நிற்க இயல்புகூ ரருள்வடிவம்
      எந்நாளும் வாழிவாழி
   இகபர மிரண்டினிலும் உயிரினுக் குயிராகி
      எங்குநிறை கின்றபொருளே.11.

The above verse is Verse 11 under Engum Niraihinra Porul, the All Pervading Substance, in Thayumanavar's works.

Arunachala Siva.

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2191 on: September 05, 2012, 02:19:58 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir, Thank You for these beautiful verses. It is indeed beautiful and inspiring to read these works.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 02:23:33 AM by Jewell »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2192 on: September 05, 2012, 09:54:18 AM »
Quote:
“Sri Bhagavan said: Please repeat the four words, deham, naham, koham, soham.  The girl repeated it faithfully several times
and then Sri Bhagavan said: This is enough for you. Don't forget these words.”

“G.V. Subbaramiah buried her body at the back of his house and raised a small samadhi, with inscription deham, naham, koham,                     
soham. When GVS informed about the demise of Indira and what he had done, Sri Bhagavan approved his step.”

“Saint Tayumanavar also describes the state of I am ness, where the jiva/mind/ego merges with the Self
He calls it the state, where 'Your state and my state are One state'. In that state, there is no ego, the ego
takes a beating and runs away because the Effulgence of Self cannot be tolerated by that ego! Then thereafter,
there is no good and bad deeds and merits and demerits. There is neither happiness nor misery. There is not
suttarivu, or munnilai, that is 'you' - the objective consciousness.  This state is the Grand Knowledge. There is nothing
like front and back, high and low - everywhere there is only the Self - an indescribable Bliss.  This is all due to Grace
of Guru. Hail to Him, Hail to Him, He is the Guru for me in this world as well as in the land of liberation.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes, Indira’s tale is very moving and is one of those intriguing tales which happened in around Sri Bhagwan during His physical Presence. In my view, Indira, like in so many other instances, was an advanced devotee, who was ordained to have brief interaction with Sri Bhagwan, to work out her remaining karma. Sri Bhagwan’s spontaneous showering of abundant Grace on her points to a prior mysterious and incomprehensible connection. I have read instances in which a devotee came from a far off land, had brief or no interaction with Sri Bhagwan, merely sat quietly for some time before Him, gazing into His eyes, and then went away, without disclosing who he was and wherefrom he came. There are many such mysterious and intriguing tales which cannot be explained by rational reason. AND THIS INTRIGUE IS NOT ONLY CONSPICUOUS BY OCCURANCE FOR HUMANS ONLY, BUT INVOLVED IN CERTAIN INSTANCES BIRDS AND ANIMALS ALSO.

Dear sir, Sage Sri Tayumanavar’s poem that you have posted is one of the most beautiful poems I have ever seen, describing our Pure State of Existence-Consciousness “I AM” so  vividly. Ji. Yes. This is what I had been trying to say in my reply to Sri ramanaduli. Vichara takes the ego or the individual to a state where it cannot tolerate the Effulgence of the Supreme Self, and takes to flight. IF WE STRIVE TO SAVOUR IT TODAY, IT IS THE GRACE OF THE GURU. HAIL TO HIM. HAIL TO HIM. HE IS OUR GURU HERE IN THIS WORLD AND IN THE LAND OF LIBERATION.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
 Anil     


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2193 on: September 05, 2012, 10:10:36 AM »
Dear Devotees,

The great devotee, Sri A.R.Natarajan, writes beautifully:

“No doubt it is difficult for us to accept the position that we lack sufficient faith, or that there is any fault in our sadhana. But then one has to face facts himself even if he wishes it hidden from others. The basic problem is that we have all come to Ramana with our backgrounds. We have already travelled on a certain path, according to our inclinations and what life has opened till then. A chaste and virgin mind like that of Muruganar is just not there. According to Ramana it is precisely the merit, the purificatory effect of what you had done earlier, which has opened up the opportunity of being exposed to the Ramana Way. Ramana has set at rest the trepiditions and doubts of devotees like Subbramayya and Balarama Reddy , and through them our fears as well by making this point. “Just because you have done so much of japa, its merit has brought you here. Why should you now fear while enjoying the fruits of your japa?” But this statement is lost on most of us. We are not willing to give up our earlier practices and approaches partly because of this unexpressed fear of letting go the known and partly because of our incomplete faith in Self-enquiry being a cure all. So we plod along keeping our old methods untouched, and adding Self-enquiry in a manner as we would add spices to our food or some side dish to our main menu. This of course it is better than not doing Self-enquiry at all but it might have the adverse effect of lulling one into the false belief that one is adhering to the Ramana Path. All this is said to stress the need for giving meaning and depth to our sadhana by a constant awareness of what exactly is happening. Also, Ramana is opening up such a wonderful new path, should one let go of the glorious opportunity?”
                                                                     Source: Insights, Sri A. R. Natarajan


Dear devotees, Sri  Natarajan very rightly observes that perhaps our inability to give the path of Self-enquiry the pride of place in our sadhana springs from its very simplicity and directness. Because of its very simplicity and directness we doubt its Efficacy. Or as we have discussed much here about the fitness question or the prerequisites or pre-condition to adopt the path, we give way to the debilitating negative thoughts, such as, “I am not yet ready for Self-enquiry, or I am impure’ and the like. Sri Bhagwan has taught thus:
“To wait for the day when you think that your mind is pure and ready for Self-enquiry is as futile as to wait for the waves to stop before swimming in the sea.”
Sri Natarajan writes:
“More important is the fact thanks to Self-enquiry, the process of acquiring virtues is reversed.  WE DO NOT NEED TO SEEK THEM, FOR THEY COME ACCORDING TO ADVANCEMENT ALONG THE PATH.”   

Dear devotees, TOUCH OF GRACE IS ESSENTIAL IN ALL SPIRITUAL SADHANA. BUT THIS GRACE IS BEST INVOKED BY KEEPING THE VICHARA ACTIVE. VICHARA WILL LEAD ONE TO THE INNER REALM. One must also keep meditating on Sri Bhagwan’s Utterances. Grace and Vichara act and react and make the seemingly impossible possible, make the subtlest the graspable.  One experiences Oneself as the Fullness of Consciousness.  Thoughts get burnt out.  INTUTION TAKES THE PLACE OF THE REASON. THINKING GIVES WAY TO FEELING. LIFE AND LOVE ARE SYNONYMS THEN.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
     

Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2194 on: September 05, 2012, 10:48:25 AM »
Quote
Dear devotees, Sri  Natarajan very rightly observes that perhaps our inability to give the path of Self-enquiry the pride of place in our sadhana springs from its very simplicity and directness. Because of its very simplicity and directness we doubt its Efficacy. Or as we have discussed much here about the fitness question or the prerequisites or pre-condition to adopt the path, we give way to the debilitating negative thoughts, such as, “I am not yet ready for Self-enquiry, or I am impure’ and the like. Sri Bhagwan has taught thus:
“To wait for the day when you think that your mind is pure and ready for Self-enquiry is as futile as to wait for the waves to stop before swimming in the sea.”

Very right and very important to be understood. "I can't do Self-inquiry, let's try Japa", "O, Japa is not for me, I must try another way. I will try bhakti", "Oh, bhakti is too difficult as advised by Sri Ramana. May be I must do pranayama. Yes, breathing is something very natural", "Oh, pranayama is not so easy as I thought" and so on and so forth. The Mind always try to procrastinate. It doesn't want to become inactive or to be killed. If we don't embrace the teaching of our Lord with strong faith and great enthusiasm and if we don't stick to it just as a drowning man to floating log then it is very, very difficult to advance in spiritual life. But how can we "buy" faith and enthusiasm? No shop sells them. Can we do something without Lord's Grace? And why this Grace run away from us? As Lord Jesus has said:
Quote

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to Life, and only a few find it.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2195 on: September 05, 2012, 11:35:26 AM »
Dear Hari,

Self Inquiry is direct path. But steep. Simple but not easy to practice.

Self Inquiry talks about Be-ing. We are all capable of doing many things. We can run fast like Usin Bolt or swim like Phelps.
But we cannot remain Summa. (still).  That is why it is not easy to practice.

Self inquiry is about keeping the mind within. But due to vasanas of innumerable births, we have minds which can easily
jump out but not stay in.

Arunachala Siva.
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2196 on: September 05, 2012, 02:59:19 PM »
Sri Bhagwan:

Lo, very easy is Self-knowledge,
Lo, very easy indeed.

For loosening karma’s bond and ending births,
This path is easier than all other paths.
Abide in stillness, without any stir
Of tongue, mind, body. And behold
The effulgence of the Self within;
The experience of Eternity; absence
Of all fear; the ocean vast of Bliss.
                V. 5, Atma-Vidya
Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2197 on: September 05, 2012, 03:25:03 PM »
Dear Devotees,

As I remember, Sri Bhagwan has explained that Shiva has two aspects, namely, the Transcendental (Nirguna) as well as the Immanent aspect (Saguna). Transcendental Aspect is invisible Being(Be-ing), Transcendental  Being. The Immanent Aspect is the manifestation of the Lingam. Sri Bhagwan has revealed that the Linga Aspect originally manifested as Sri Arunachala which stands even to this day.

Sri Bhagwan has further clarified that the Pranava, or the Mystic sound AUM, represents the Transcendental Aspect in the realm of sound and speech whereas the five-syllabled Mantra (Panchakshari) represents the Immanent or the Saguna  Aspect.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil 
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2198 on: September 05, 2012, 04:00:39 PM »
Dear Anil,

You have quoted the Atma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 4.

Now it is easy, very easy. For whom?

Those who remain Summa with no activity in words (speech), mind (thoughts) and body (actions), can only find it
very easy. For those who cannot do all these or even any one of these, first should learn to practice it, i.e.
silence without words, without thoughts and actions,

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2199 on: September 05, 2012, 04:12:41 PM »
Dear Anil,

What is the state of such Jnanis who ever remain in the state of bliss of the Self? Since they have conquered tongue, mind and
body, by eliminating speech, thoughts and actions, the devotees also cannot fathom their state, which is beyond mind and words.

Saint Thayumanavar says this in his Udal PoyyuRavu, the false relationship of the body, Verse 20:   

மனத்தாலும் வாக்காலும் மன்னவொண்ணா மோன
இனத்தாரே நல்ல இனத்தார்-கனத்தபுகழ்
கொணடவரும் அன்னவரே கூறரிய முத்திநெறி
கண்டவரும் அன்னவரே காண். 20.

Those who have become Jnanis, they are only the virtuous people in life. Their state is beyond the mind and words of
onlookers and devotees. They are the ones who are in the pinnacle of glory. And they are the ones who have found the
liberation in this life.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2200 on: September 05, 2012, 04:29:16 PM »
Quote:
“You have quoted the Atma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 4.

Now it is easy, very easy. For whom?

Those who remain Summa with no activity in words (speech), mind (thoughts) and body (actions), can only find it
very easy. For those who cannot do all these or even any one of these, first should learn to practice it, i.e.
silence without words, without thoughts and actions.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

The cited verse in my post has been included in the ‘Collected Works’ as Verse-5.

Dear sir, I do not subscribe to the view that Vichara is only for those who can remain summa or still with no activity what so ever. In my knowledge Sri Bhagwan never enjoined such injunction against the Path. If that would have been the case, He would not have taught to ask “To whom this thought, etc.?” to bring back the diverted attention to the Self again. Moreover, when there is no activity in speech, mind and body, Vichara will become effortless, culminating in Self-abidance, and that is the end of sadhana.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2201 on: September 05, 2012, 04:58:50 PM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan said that one should remain thoughtless, speechless and actionless at least during practicing Vichara.
Thereafter, when Vichara succeeds into Self Realization, permanently abiding in the Self, then no speech, or action
will affect that person. How about mind? You may ask. Mind has already been dead. So abiding in Self permanently,one
can do speaking as also action, because it is the Self that is directing all those things.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2202 on: September 05, 2012, 05:21:52 PM »
Dear Anil,

Saint Thayumanavar says in Tejomayanandam, Verse 8, the same philosophy of Summa Iru. No doubt Sri Bhagavan
said Atma Vidya is easy, SUBJECT to one's continued practice of silence. Being silent or being still is the most difficult
thing. The saint poet says:   

கந்துக மதக்கரியை வசமா நடத்தலாங்
      கரடிவெம் புலிவாயையுங்
   கட்டலாம் ஒருசிங்கம் முதுகின்மேற் கொள்ளலாங்
      கட்செவி எடுத்தாட்டலாம்
வெந்தழலின் இரதம்வைத் தைந்துலோ கத்தையும்
      வேதித்து விற்றுண்ணலாம்
   வேறொருவர் காணாமல் உலகத் துலாவலாம்
      விண்ணவரை ஏவல்கொளலாஞ்
சந்ததமும் இளமையோ டிருக்கலாம் மற்றொரு
      சரீரத்தி னும்புகுதலாஞ்
   சலமேல் நடக்கலாங் கனல்மே லிருக்கலாந்
      தன்னிகரில் சித்திபெறலாம்
சிந்தையை அடக்கியே சும்மா இருக்கின்ற
      திறமரிது சத்தாகிஎன்
   சித்தமிசை குடிகொண்ட அறிவான தெய்வமே
      தேசோ மயானந்தமே. 8.

Sri Bhagavan has also quoted this verse in one of His conversations.  The verse says:

One can control the mad elephant and place it in its stable or make it walk with him under his control. One can
even make the mouths of bear and tiger tied with some innate capacity. One can climb over a lion and walk riding it.
One can take the venomous serpent and make shows in the public. One can do alchemy by placing the five baser metals in
the hot burning coals, and make them gold and sell and run his livelihood. One can walk formless not being seen by others.
One can even command the heavenly angels and gods.  One can ever remain in youthful state without senility. One can even
enter another man's body. One can walk on water. One can stand on burning fire. One can get all incomparable siddhis.

But,

one can not control his mind and be summa. O Lord, the Effulgent Siva, help me to have this ability and then stay
in my Heart, as Pure Knowledge and Bliss.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2203 on: September 05, 2012, 05:35:34 PM »
Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says: The first thought is 'I'-thought. This thought gives rise to all other thoughts about the world,
one's own body, the people, etc., This I-thought alone creates havoc. How can this I thought be quelled and one
can remain Summa. Only by Guru's presence, His Grace and our sincerity to the Guru. Sri Bhagavan says in Ulladu
Narpadu last verse, the ego's death is mukti. To attain this Guru's Grace is of paramount importance. When Sri
Bhagavan said Iru, not even Summa Iru, to Tinnai Swami and Tinnai Swami remained in Tiruvannamalai for another
15 years simply staying still, eating what ever came to him, bathing on those days he liked to bathe, without even
a change of shirt and dhoti and attained mukti just before a Maha Deepam Day.

Saint Tayumanavar says the same thing here:

நானென்னும் ஓரகந்தை எவர்க்கும் வந்து
      நலிந்தவுடன் சகமாயை நானா வாகித்
தான்வந்து தொடருமித்தால் வளருந் துன்பச்
      சாகரத்தின் பெருமைஎவர் சாற்ற வல்லார்
ஊனென்றும் உடலென்றுங் கரண மென்றும்
      உள்ளென்றும் புறமென்றும் ஒழியா நின்ற
வானென்றுங் காலென்றுந் தீநீ ரென்றும்
      மண்ணென்றும் மலையென்றும் வனம தென்றும். 15.

மலைமலையாங் காட்சிகண்கா ணாமை யாதி
      மறப்பென்றும் நினைப்பென்றும் மாயா வாரி
அலையலையா யடிக்குமின்ப துன்ப மென்றும்
      அதைவிளைக்கும் வினைகளென்றும் அதனைத் தீர்க்கத்
தலைபலவாஞ் சமயமென்றுந் தெய்வ மென்றுஞ்
      சாதகரென் றும்மதற்குச் சாட்சி யாகக்
கலைபலவா நெறியென்றுந் தர்க்க மென்றுங்
      கடலுறுநுண் மணலெண்ணிக் காணும் போதும். 16.

காணரிய அல்லலெல்லாந் தானே கட்டுக்
      கட்டாக விளையுமதைக் கட்டோ டேதான்
வீணினிற்கர்ப் பூரமலை படுதீப் பட்ட
      விந்தையெனக் காணவொரு விவேகங் காட்ட
ஊணுறக்கம் இன்பதுன்பம் பேரூ ராதி
      ஒவ்விடவும் எனைப்போல உருவங் காட்டிக்
கோணறவோர் மான்காட்டி மானை ஈர்க்குங்
      கொள்கையென அருள்மௌன குருவாய் வந்து. 17.

When the ego comes, all Maya's games start. Thoughts come mountains like. When Guru comes and gives upadesa and
Grace, then all these thoughts become burnt like a camphor mountain before a fire. Only that Mouna Guru has trapped me,
like a deer trapped by placing another deer, he came as a man and elevated this man for deliverance.

Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2204 on: September 05, 2012, 08:07:41 PM »
Dear Anil,

Saint Tirumoolar says what is turiya state and what is turiyatita state:


தன்னை அறியாது உடலைமுன் தான்என்றான்
தன்னைமுன் கண்டான் துரியம் தனைக்கண்டான்
உன்னும் துரியமும் ஈசனோடு ஒன்றாக்கால்
பின்னையும் வந்து பிறந்திடும் தானே. 38

2265
சாக்கிரத் தன்னில் அதீதம் தலைப்படில்
ஆக்கிய அந்த வயிந்தவம் ஆனந்தம்
நோக்கும் பிறப்புஅறும் நோன்முத்தி சித்தியாம்
வாக்கும் மனமும் மருவல்செய் யாவே. 39

Knowing not the Self
Jiva deemed body as the Self;
When he saw the Real Self,
He attained Turiya State,
If he Jiva, with Lord united not,
He will again born be, here below;   (2264)

If in waking state,
The Jiva realizes the atitta State
The Vaindavas (the tattvas) that Maya caused
Will their malevolence shed,
The birth's whirl will cease;
Glorious Mukti and Siddhi then attained
Speech and thought cease to be.

Sri Bhagavan does not of course differentiate between turiya state and turiyatita state. Tirumoolar bifurcates.
In both cases, speech and thought should cease.

Arunachala Siva.