Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 278972 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #210 on: December 03, 2010, 02:17:03 PM »



Dear Anil,

There are such "paradoxes" in Bhagavan Ramana's life.  His teachings were either depicting the state of a Brahma Jnani or assuming a role for the sake of seekers. 

Once there was a lunar eclipse which came just around in the evening during Asramam's usual dinner time.  Sarvadikari had arranged the nigh food to be prepared and served well before the commencement of the lunar eclipse.  The Asramam dinner bell
rang around 6.30 PM instead of 7.30 PM.  Sri Bhagavan Ramana looked at the clock and first thought someone had rung the bell
by mistake.  Some devotees told Him about the impending lunar
eclipse.  Bhagavan Ramana said:  Oh, is it so?  Let me take dinner
at the usual time.  He did not go at 6.30 P.M.  Some devotees went for early dinner and some others totally in faith in Bhagavan Ramana
went only with Him, around 7.30 P.M. and ate right during lunar
eclipse.

On another occasion, I think, it was T. K. Sundaresa Iyer, who was
told by some astrologer that he would have pass through six months of tough time, due to some planetary position.  Iyer became afraid.  He came and told Bhagavan Ramana.  Sri Bhagavan
Ramana said:  Do not worry.  Be in the Asramam.  If there is any work go in the bright morning and come back before sunset.  Iyer
followed this advice of Bhagavan strictly.  In fact, on a few occasions, Bhagavan asked others inside the Asramam, whether
Sundaresa had come back from the town.  He was showing anxiety.
Soon six months passed.  And Iyer was relieved.  Bhagavan Ramana
smilingly told him:  Sundaresa!  Now it is all over.  You can go home! 

Now, the second incident what for?  Why?  Could not Bhagavan
stop the evil effects of planets just by a mere gaze at Sundaresa
Iyer.  No.  He wanted to go according to the psychology of Iyer.
He was quite scared about the planets.  So, Bhagavan also played a role, as if He was respecting astrological predictions and took care of Iyer as if He were a father!

What a contrast!

This is  precisely what Sat Darsanam, Verse 27 [Supplement]
says.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #211 on: December 03, 2010, 02:57:16 PM »
  Ji, yes, it is well known that Sri Bhagwan, out of compassion for mankind, often descended to the level of His devotees and suggested solution, spiritual or otherwise, from their standpoint. Akshar mana malai is the best example in this aspect for all of us to understand.

  Dear sir, as far as I remember death was predicted for Sri Rangan, the childhood friend of Sri Bhagwan. Ji, yes, He could protect by a mere single look. But He prefered instead to act according to the devotee's sensibility and monitored him till he was out of danger zone.
 
                   Regards,
 
                      Anil

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #212 on: December 04, 2010, 07:49:27 AM »
  Sri Bhagwan:

  "Only the Supreme Self,which is ever shining in your Heart as the reality, is the Sadguru. The pure awareness, which is shining as the inward illumination 'I', is His gracious feet. The contact with these (inner holy feet) alone can give you true redemption. Joining the eye of reflected consciousness (chidabhasa), which is your sense of individuality, to those holy feet, which are the real consciousness, is the union  of the feet and the head which is the real significance of the word asi ( the verb in tat tvam asi, that thou art). As these inner holy feet can be held naturally and unceasingly, hereafter, with an inward turned mind, cling to that inner awareness which is your real nature. This alone is the proper way for the removal of bomdage and the attainment of the supreme truth."
And the following statement of Sri Bhagwan:
  " Surrender is to offer fully, in silence, the subsided ego, which is a name-and-form thought, to the 'aham sphurana' ( the effulgence of "I" ), the real holy feet of the gracious Guru."

Thus in the first statement, the union of unbroken 'I' with the  the sense of individuality is the union of the feet and the head and not merely physical prostration. If, by enquiry, first the subject 'I' can be segregated successfully from the predicate in the " I am the body or I am so and so, etc." idea, if the sentient principle can be isolated from the insentient part in the ego, it can hold the inner holy feet naturally and unceasingly.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #213 on: December 04, 2010, 08:26:52 AM »
  Similarlly, in the second statement of Sri Bhagwan, He says that the offering fully, in silence, to the aham sphurana the subsided ego is the real union of the feet with the head and not merely the token prostration. Here Sri Bhagwan, by aham sphurana, means the effulgence of "I" or I-I, His famous reference to the first manifestation of the Brahman or Self. But as I have understood sphurana is not uncommon and is palpable and can be grasped by the intellect.  But the feet of the Guru, the effulgence of 'I', can only be touched by offering fully the subsided or the fried ego.

         Thank you.
             Anil

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #214 on: December 04, 2010, 09:32:22 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Self Inquiry and Self Surrender are the two sides of the same
coin.  In Self Inquiry, one investigates the nature of thoughts, mind
and ego, annihilate them and then attain the bliss of the Self which
is one without a second.  The Self Surrender, the devotee keeps the
ego intact and approaches God with worships, prayers, japa and then finally submits his ego to the God.  The first is Atma Vicharam and then the second is Saranagati.  Atma vicharam is actually vicharam of anatama.  Saranagati is actually surrender of the ego.
Both are same and both require efforts. 

Saint Manikkavachagar says:

Siva is a poor bargainer.  He takes me, the foolish dog. And gives me Him.  Who is cleverer than the two.  I got endless bliss.  What have you got from me?   You have taken my Heart as your Abode,
O Lord of Tiruperundurai, Siva!  O my father you have taken my body as your temple.  What recompense can I pay for you?

{Kovil Tirupadigam, Verse 10.}



Arunachala Siva.           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #215 on: December 04, 2010, 10:09:12 AM »
  Dear Sir, Atma Vichara and self-surrender have always been one and the same. Rather, they are both integral and complementary to each other for me.
Sir, thank you so much for citing V-10, Kovil Tirupadigam. This is a very touching verse,

               Regards,
                  Anil

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #216 on: December 04, 2010, 10:53:17 AM »



Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai [Tr. David Godman]:

Verse 470:  God who has this day provided you with food [and other
necessities] will, in perfect way, do so forever.  Hence live by casting all your burdens at his feet, without entertaining thoughts of tomorrow or the future.

Muruganar adds here:  It is impossible for the sadhaka to avoid his
worldly activities.  Even if one lives in a forest, that which is destined to come will inevitably come.  Hence surrender is alone is the medicine that dispels anxieties.  With the firm conviction that grace, which has fed us today, will be with us forever, without ever leaving us, we should completely destroy the thought of tomorrow and attain the peace of mind that transcends time.   

Padamalai Verse 231 says: [Tr. David Godman]:

Banish even the thought "I am a fit instrument for Him" and remain still [Summa Iru].

To remain still even without the thought, that I am his fit instrument or I am his slave.  This is pure egoless mauna.

Questioner:  What is the rationalistic explanation of Draupadi's
sari flowing endlessly?

Bhagavan:  Spiritual incidents cannot be brought under rationalistic explanation.  Draudpadi's surrender is alone important here.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #217 on: December 04, 2010, 04:39:04 PM »
   Ji,yes, some time or other, earnest devotees must have felt that major or even minor events in their lives were ordained to happen the way they happened. In retrospect, when I look back and introspect the events in my life, I discern that I had not been the doer, though I may have been merely agent to actions. I hardly had any choice and almost no control ever them although at the time of their happening or occurring I hardly felt so. I surrendered to Sri Bhagwan, partially or completely, He alone knows, in the month of July, 2005 when  surrounded with impossible situations and following the direction of Sri Dr, Murty of Sri Ramanasramam. From then on  I have cosciously tried to accept whatever has come my way.

  Dear Sir, yes, spiritual matter can not be either rationally analysed nor explained, Rationality is within the realm of the mind, how can they be rationally dealt with ?

  Dear Sir, will you kindly explain ' Summa Iru' ? I think that the term means ' Be still'. Thbnk you so much.

               Regards,

                  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #218 on: December 05, 2010, 05:42:05 AM »
  Sri Bhagwan :
 
" Thoughts must cease and reason   disappear for 'I-I' to rise up and be felt. Feeling is the prime factor and not reason."

     From Talks, No. 24

  By the above statement Sri Bhagwan certainly doesn't mean that one shoud abandon reason and rationality outright even while dealing with the dualistic world. But, nevertheless, when one aspires for Self knowledge, thoughts must cease and reason disappear. Ultimately one will have to transcend the question of reason and rationality, for reason, rationality as well as the irrationality are matters which are of the realm of the mind. However, one need not worry for by transcending mind and reason one seeks that which is the repository of all reason as well as pure reason.

        Thank you,
            Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #219 on: December 05, 2010, 04:16:15 PM »
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

  Sri Annamalai Swami said that it happens when we understand and know that mind never existed. It is recognition of what is real and true. Sri Bhagwan said the same thing in Verse no. 17 of Upadesa Saram, ' If one asks, " what is this mind of mine?" it will be found that there is really no such thing as the mind.'
  Oxford dictionary define ' transcendence' as going beyond the limits of human knowledge, experience or reason, especially in a spiritual way.
 Hence, understanding and knowing, by Vichara, that in truth the mind never existed is, in my view, the transcendnce of the mind and reason bringing about recognition of what is real and true.
  Again, in Verse no.18, U. S., Sri Bhagwan says that what is called mind is a bundle of thoughts, all depending on one thought of " I ", the ego. And the so called mind is the ' I '-thought.
  Now what happens to the I-thought or the ego on which is based all other thoughts ? See Verse nos. 19 and 20 of Upadesa Saram:
V-19,
" If one asks himself, " where does this I come from ?" it will vanish. This is atma-vichara.
V-20,
" Where this I vanished and merged in its Source, there appears spontaneously and continuously an I-I. This is the Heart, infinite Supreme Being.
  Therefore, dear Sri Udai Shankar, what I meant was simply that mind or the ego I or the thoughts must vanish and merge in the Source to be Self aware. Thank you so much for your respose.

            Regards,
               Anil
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #220 on: December 05, 2010, 06:06:04 PM »



Dear srkudai, Anil,

One interesting question answer in Kaivalya Navanetam:

Disciple:  How then the wise, liberated while alive, exhaust their
prarabdha if their mind has lost itself in Brahman and become one
with It.?   Is it not done only by experiencing its results?  Such
experience would certainly require the mind.  There cannot be any kind of experience in the absence of the mind.  If the mind persists,
how can they said to be liberated?  I am confused on this point.
Be pleased to clear this doubt of mine, for I cannot be liberated
unless all my doubts are cleared away.

Master:  The annihilation of the mind is of two grades.  viz.,
of the mind pattern [lit. Sarupa - in its form] and of the mind
itself [Arupa, the mind which has no form].   The former applies
to Sages liberated while alive - Jivan Muktas. The latter to disembodied sages.  Elimination of rajas and tamas, leaving Sattva alone is the dissolution of the pattern of mind.  [i.e. Suddha Manas would still remain]. O sinless one!  When Sattva vanishes along with the subtle body, the mind itself is said to have perished too.  [Since it is the mind which carries vasanas, along with prana to take a new birth].  In such a state, the Sages will partake of what comes unsolicited.  Not think of the past or future.  Nor exult in joy or lament in sorrow.  Getting over their doership. Becoming non-doers.  Simply witnessing the mental modes and the three states, as Awareness, and can continue in that liberated state
while they pass through prarabdha.  There is no contradiction in it, O my son!

Disciple:  You say that Sage's whole period of activity is also the state of peace.  Does not action denote changing mind, and on such change, does not peace slip away?

Master:  The state of the Sage is like that of a girl who never ceases to thrill with the love of her paramour, even while doing her duties at home.  Their greatness is as Perfect Doers, Perfect
Enjoyers, and Perfect Renouncers.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #221 on: December 05, 2010, 06:45:57 PM »
  Dear Sir, although I had earlier went through it in the said book, it was so timely and appropriate in the context of the current discussion that I went through the nice post spell-bound. Thank you so much. Regards, Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #222 on: December 06, 2010, 04:59:16 AM »
  Dear Sri Uday Shankar, who pursues the enquiry ? The ego. And the outcome of the enquiry is its dissolution. Therefore, 'i' transcends i and yet remains " I ". With regard to feeling, kindly see as following:
D: Moreever it ( feeling) is not in the head but in the right side of the chest.
Sri Bh: It ought to be so. Because heart is there.
  Talks no. 24
From the above it is obvious that feeling issues forth from depth and certainly more important in Self enquiry than thought and reason. Sri Bhagwan has said that actual intuition is akin to feeling. ( Talks, no. 28) Sri Bhagwan has also said that feeling is of the category of the experience. knowledge implies subject and object where as  experiece is unitary and integral. Regards, Anil

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #223 on: December 06, 2010, 06:05:13 AM »
  However, we should not mistake feeling for the True Self .
D : Is there anything like pratyakshbhava in the state of realisation or is realisation merely felt or experienced as the very Being  or Sthiti of the soul ?
Sri Bhagwan : Pratyaksha is very being and it is not feeling, etc.

        Talks, no. 500
          Thank you,
              Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #224 on: December 06, 2010, 07:39:18 AM »



All feelings and actions are by the ego.  The self realized is
simply IS.  But he is like a mirror, reflecting the 'feelings' of the
devotees who come to him and describe such feelings.  Evan a
Jnani's description of his pre-bodha state and life, is like a person
telling his dream experience after waking.



Arunachala Siva.