Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758757 times)

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2085 on: August 16, 2012, 09:10:59 PM »
Dear, vinod526, I am aware of Sri Bhagavan teachings about the time you have been. But what I feel is the core of Self-inquiry is concentration on the "I"-feeling, the Subject, the Seer, the Pure awareness. When the mind attaches to thoughts, objects and so on you should shift your attention again on the Seer, the Thinker or in other words on the Agent who is acting. If you have doubts give your attention on the Doubter. If you are afraid, concentrate on the One who is afraid. "Who am I?" is just a question whose purpose is concetration on the subjective "I", not the "I" who identify itself with names and forms and thoughts. At the end you will realize that these are not two "I"'s but one "I" who is Pure Awareness. I am not sure I am right but this is my understanding.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2086 on: August 16, 2012, 10:11:40 PM »
One of the best and simple explanation of Self-inquiry I have found is that of Sri David Godman. Here it is:

Quote
Preamble
By David Godman

Beginners in self-enquiry were advised by Sri Ramana to put their attention on the inner feeling of ‘I’ and to hold that feeling as long as possible. They would be told that if their attention was distracted by other thoughts they should revert to awareness of the ‘I’-thought whenever they became aware that their attention had wandered. He suggested various aids to assist this process- one could ask oneself ‘Who am I?’ or ‘Where does this I come from?’- but the ultimate aim was to be continuously aware of the ‘I’ which assumes that it is responsible for all the activities of the body and the mind.

In the early stages of practice attention to the feeling ‘I’ is a mental activity which takes the form of a thought or a perception. As the practice develops, the thought ‘I’ gives way to a subjectively experienced feeling of ‘I’, and when this feeling ceases to connect and identify with thoughts and objects, it completely vanishes. What remains is an experience of being in which the sense of individuality has temporarily ceased to operate. The experience may be intermittent at first but with repeated practice it becomes easier and easier to reach and maintain. When self-enquiry reaches this level there is an effortless awareness of being in which individual effort is no longer possible since the ‘I’ who makes the effort has temporarily ceased to exist. It is not Self-realisation since the ‘I’-thought periodically reasserts itself but it is the highest level of practice. Repeated experience of this state of being weakens and destroys the Vasanas (mental tendencies) which cause the '‘I’-thought to rise, and, when their hold has been sufficiently weakened, the power of the Self destroys the residual tendencies so completely that the ‘I’-thought never rises again. This is the final and irreversible state of Self-realisation.

This practice of Self-attention or awareness of the ‘I’-thought is a gentle technique, which bypasses the usual repressive methods of controlling the mind. It is not an exercise in concentration, nor does it aim at suppressing thoughts; it merely invokes awareness of the source from which the mind springs. The method and goal of self-enquiry is to abide in the source of the mind and to be aware of what one really is by withdrawing attention and interest from what one is not. In the early stages effort in the form of transferring attention from the thoughts to the thinker is essential, but once awareness of the ‘I’-feeling has been firmly established, further effort is counter-productive. From then on it is more a process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than an effort to be.

Being what one already is is effortless since beingness is always present and always experienced. On the other hand, pretending to be what one is not (i.e. the body and the mind) requires continuous mental effort even though the effort is nearly always at a subconscious level. It therefore follows that in the higher stages of self-enquiry effort takes attention away from the experience of being while the cessation of mental effort reveals it. Ultimately, the Self is not discovered as a result of doing anything, but only by being. As Sri Ramana Maharshi himself once remarked:

‘Do not meditate – be!

Do not think that you are – be!

Don’t think about being – you are!’

Self-enquiry should not be regarded as a meditation practice that takes place at certain hours and in certain positions; it should continue throughout one's waking hours, irrespective of what one is doing. Sri Ramana Maharshi saw no conflict between working and self-enquiry and he maintained that with a little practice it could be done under any circumstances. He did sometimes say that regular periods of formal practice were good for beginners, but he never advocated long periods of sitting meditation and he always showed his disapproval when any of his devotees expressed a desire to give up their mundane activities in favour of a meditative life.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2087 on: August 17, 2012, 09:04:49 AM »
Quote from Sri vinod526:
“1. I close my eyes (Its total black out)
2. Start enquiring who am I?
3. In due course consciousness of the body is lost.
4. Eventually when the consciousness of the body is lost, thoughts stop.
5. Its just the soul which is present in this stage surrounded by darkness, now whats next? Do we still continue the process of self enquiry till we reach the stage of "bliss"? If Yes, does bliss is the "only" and "next stage" of self enquiry?”

Dear Sri vinod526,

Yes. Sri David Godman’s understanding and explanation of the Path of Self-enquiry is simple, yet profound. There is no doubt about that.
There is nothing secret about the Straight Path of Self-enquiry as taught by Bhagwan Sri Ramana. There is nothing more to it than what has been written in books. Sri Bhagwan Himself has said so. Self-enquiry is the Name of Self-attention; when with effort, it is practice; without effort, verily it is the goal.
Dear Sri vinod, you say that ‘consciousness of the body is lost, thoughts stop’. That is good. When you have succeeded in eliminating all thoughts except for the thinker (you have termed it as ‘soul’) himself by ceaseless enquiry, or by refusing to pay any attention to the associated thoughts, the ‘I’-thoughts sinks into Heart and surrenders, leaving behind merely an Awareness, an Awareness of the Consciousness. This merging or surrender of the ‘I’-thought can take place only if the ‘I’-thought has ceased to identify with the rising thoughts.

Dear Sri vinod, so long as there are stray thoughts which attract or evade your attention, the ‘I’-thought or the so-called ego will always be directing its attention or wander outwards rather than inwards. If that happens, you know how to bring back the attention to dwell and redwell on to the Self inwards.
The purpose of the Self-enquiry is to make the ‘I’-thought move towards the Self, the Source of all. YOU MUST CEASE TO BE INTERESTED IN THE RISING THOUGHTS.
Sri Bhagwan says:
“Transcend the present plane of relativity. A separate being appears to know something apart from itself (non-self). That is, subject is aware of the object. The seer is drik; the seen is drishya.”

Dear Sri vinod, to cease to be interested in thoughts that take away the attention of the ‘I’-thought outwards rather than inwards, you must eliminate the ‘drishya jagat’. That means elimination of the separate identities of the subject and the object. THE OBJECT IS UNREAL AND DRISYA JAGAT, INCLUDING THE ‘I’-THOUGHT OR THE EGO, IS THE OBJECT ONLY. Eliminating the unreal, the non-Self, the Reality, the Self, alone survives.
ONLY ERRONEOUS PERCEPTION OF OURSELVES HAS TO BE REMOVED AS ONLY THE ERRONEOUS PERCEPTION OF THE SNAKE IS REMOVED FOR THE ROPE TO SHINE FORTH.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
 
 

     

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2088 on: August 17, 2012, 09:42:32 AM »
Quote from Sri Hari:
“I am aware of Sri Bhagavan teachings about the time you have been. But what I feel is the core of Self-inquiry is concentration on the "I"-feeling, the Subject, the Seer, the Pure awareness. When the mind attaches to thoughts, objects and so on you should shift your attention again on the Seer, the Thinker or in other words on the Agent who is acting. If you have doubts give your attention on the Doubter. If you are afraid, concentrate on the One who is afraid. "Who am I?" is just a question whose purpose is concetration on the subjective "I", not the "I" who identify itself with names and forms and thoughts. At the end you will realize that these are not two "I"'s but one "I" who is Pure Awareness. I am not sure I am right but this is my understanding.”

Dear Sri Hari,

Yes, your understanding, in my view, is not only right, but simple, beautiful and profound; and exactly as taught by Sri Bhagwan. OUR DUTY IS TO ADHERE TO THIS GREAT TEACHING AND BE. Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil

Vinod

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2089 on: August 17, 2012, 02:33:25 PM »
Dear Anil/Hari,

Thats so nice of u people, for being informative!

This gives lot of motivation and since we are not gnanis/antaryamis we need to learn from some one and you folks have helped me with that. I understand that its a very long journey for us, due to many limitations we have these days and I am doing this self enquiry when I am on bed or when I take a nap.
As mentioned above, we can also practice this process at any stage of our daily life. I will try this and see how it works.

Thanks again for your valuable time!

OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2090 on: August 17, 2012, 04:00:32 PM »
Dear vinod,

Yes. This practice can be done at anytime during day or night and even during your work in office. In course of time, the body-sense
will not be there, the mind sense will also not be there, but the Awareness within you would take care of you.

Arunachala Siva.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2091 on: August 17, 2012, 07:36:47 PM »
I recommend you watch all this video of Sri Mooji [whose Guru was Sri Papaji (disciple of Lord Ramana)]. It is titled "Play of existence". It accentuate one of the most important problems for seekers of Truth, one which is the fear and rejection of loosing your 'self' (what you think you are).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=e_r_81Sc6qs
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2092 on: August 17, 2012, 08:02:01 PM »
Dear Sri Hari,

Thanks very much for your kind suggestion. But I do not visit You Tube nor watch TV except for occasional news bulletins. I feel that Sri Bhagwan’s Words of Grace are more than enough for me. Besides I am not at all afraid of losing my little self which is nothing more than an illusory phantom.

However, if Sri Mooji has written or composed any work, kindly let me know the details of the publication, etc.,  and also how to get them.
Pranam,
  Anil

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2093 on: August 17, 2012, 09:05:53 PM »
Dear Anil,
I will try to find a book of Him and I will send it to you and all others if I succeed.

Best wishes, Hari
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2094 on: August 18, 2012, 11:20:36 AM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“This practice can be done at anytime during day or night and even during your work in office. In course of time, the body-sense
will not be there, the mind sense will also not be there, but the Awareness within you would take care of you.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Arthur Osborne observes in his Magnum Opus, ‘Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-knowledge’, as follows:
The injunction for the use of Self-enquiry in the activities of life was an extension of its traditional use and an adaptation to the needs of our time. In its direct use as meditation it is the purest and most ancient sadhana. Although it came to Sri Bhagwan spontaneously and untaught, it is in the tradition of the ancient Rishis. The Sage Vashishta wrote:”This enquiry ‘Who am I?’ is the quest of the Self and is said to be the fire that burns up the seed of the poisonous growth of conceptual thought.” However, it had formerly existed only as pure Jnana-marga, simplest as well as most profound, the ultimate secret to be imparted only to those of purest understanding and to be followed by them in constant meditation, away from the distraction of the world.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan Himself said in the Spiritual Instruction that it is intended only for ripe souls.

Then how is it that he explained the Vichara openly and sometimes even referred to the written exposition of the Path in His books? Sri Osborne observes:

“The only explanation is that He is far more than the Guru of those few who were able to approach Him physically in Tiruvannamalai. HIS IS THE AUTHORITY AND HE GAVE THE SANCTION. In this spiritually dark age when many seek but a Guru is rare to find. Bhagwan Himself took form on earth as the Sad-Guru, the DIVINE GUIDE, of all who turn to Him and proclaimed a sadhana accessible to all who, through His Grace, find it accessible.”
     Source: Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-knowledge

Dear sir, in my view, that is quite a plausible explanation of why Sri Bhagwan explained and declared openly particularly in the light of the fact that He Himself endorsed the universal tradition that the technique of sadhana is valid only when enjoined by the Guru.
JI. YES. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT HIS IS THE AUTHRITY, HIS IS THE SANCTION.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil
.


Vinod

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2095 on: August 18, 2012, 12:12:32 PM »
“The only explanation is that He is far more than the Guru of those few who were able to approach Him physically in Tiruvannamalai. HIS IS THE AUTHORITY AND HE GAVE THE SANCTION. In this spiritually dark age when many seek but a Guru is rare to find. Bhagwan Himself took form on earth as the Sad-Guru, the DIVINE GUIDE, of all who turn to Him and proclaimed a sadhana accessible to all who, through His Grace, find it accessible.”
     Source: Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-knowledge

That was very beautifully mentioned in the book. We are not so fortunate to be born in that era to see him but at least lucky enough to gain some knowledge through sources even in the physical absence of our master.

OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2096 on: August 18, 2012, 04:02:06 PM »
Devotee: Are there restrictions to be observed in food?
Sri Bhagwan : SATTVIC FOOD TAKEN IN MODERATION.
                                  Talk—557

D: Has the food which one usually takes anything to do with increase or decrease of one’s spiritually?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes. Sattvic food in moderate quantity is helpful to spiritual development.
                                  Talk—426

Dear Devotees,

Besides the above quotes from the ‘Talk’, here follows another which comprehensively answers all our questions with regard to food which a sadhak should take:

Mrs. Piggot: What diet is prescribed for a sadhak, or one who is engaged in spiritual practices?
Sri Bhagwan: Sattvic food in moderate quantity.
D: What is Sattvic Food?
Sri Bhagwan : BREAD, FRUITS, VEGETABLES, MILK, ETC.
D: Some people take fish in North India. May it be done?
No answer was made by Sri Bhagwan.
D : In the absence of our usual diet our health suffers and the mind loses strength.
 Sri Bhagwan : What do you mean by strength of mind?
D: The power to eliminate worldly attachment.
Sri Bhagwan : THE QUALITY OF FOOD INFLUENCES THE MIND. The mind feeds on the food consumed.
D: Really! How can the Europeans adjust themselves to sattvic food?
Sri Bhagwan : (Pointing to Mr. Evans-Wentz) You have been taking our food. Do you feel uncomfortable on that account?
Sri Wentz : No. Because I am accustomed to it.
D: What about those who are not so accustomed?
Sri Bhagwan : Habit is only adjustment to the environment. It is the mind that matters. The fact is that the mind has been trained to think certain food tasty and good. The food material is to be had both in vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet equally well. But the mind desires such food as it is accustomed to and considers tasty.
D: Are there restrictions for the realised man in a similar manner?
Sri Bhagwan : No. He is steady and not influenced by the food He takes.
D: IS IT NOT KILLING LIFE TO PREPARE MEAT DIET?
Sri Bhagwan : AHIMSA (NON-VIOLENCE) STANDS FOREMOST IN THE CODE OF DISCIPLINE FOR THE YOGIS.

Dear devotees, THE FOOLOWING IS FOR ONE WHO THINKS THAT EATING VEGETABLES, ETC,. IS ALSO SOME SORT OF VIOLENCE:

D: Even plants have life.
Sri Bhagwan : SO TOO THE SLABS YOU SIT ON!
 (THEREFORE, THIS  SORT  OF  ARGUMENT  IS NOT  VALID  FOR  ONE ENGAGED  IN  SPIRITUAL  PRACTICES)
D: May we gradually get ourselves accustomed to vegetarian food?
Sri Bhagwan: Yes. That is the way. 
                                                      Talk—22

ON MILK AND EGG
Mrs piggot: Why do you take milk, but not eggs?
Sri Bhagwan : THE DOMESTICATED COWS YIELD MORE MILK THAN NECESSARY FOR THEIR CALVES AND THEY FIND IT A PLEASURE TO BE RELIEVED OF THE MILK.
D: But the hens cannot contain the eggs?
Sri Bhagwan : THERE ARE POTENTIAL LIVES IN THEM.
                                                         Talk—24

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching with regard to food is without ambiguity whatever. Onus lies on us therefore to follow them sincerely or find alibi to continue with the old habits.

Pranam,
  Anil
       


Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43583
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2097 on: August 18, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »
Dear Anil,

Very very nice. You have epitomized everything that Sri Bhagavan has told about food and food habits.

Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2098 on: August 19, 2012, 06:02:57 PM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan has revealed that thoughts are spontaneous, superficial and analytical and they operate in intellect. Who is aware of existence of thoughts? Investigation leads to the knowledge that the individuality is operative as the seer or the perceiver of the existence of thoughts. So, the existence of thoughts, their clear perceptions and their operations become evident to the individual. Thus, it follows that existence of an even single thought implies the existence of the individual also. AND SO LONG AS INDIVIDUALITY IS THERE, ONE IS NOT REALISED. This individuality is the ego which we refer as ‘I’.  Realisation is THAT in which there is not a single thought, not even the thought of ‘I’.

Sri Bhagwan teaches that the Reality is here and now. But who am I here and now? This body and its functions; or going deeper, the mind and its function?  No. Then what is this that is referred to as ‘I’ by all of us? Where from does it come?
‘I’ was not aware in sleep.
With the rise of that which is referred to as ‘I’, sleep changes to either dream or wakefulness. 
I am not concerned with the dream right now.
Who am I, here and now, in the wakeful state?
Did I originate or was born from the sleep?
If yes, then ‘I’ was covered with ignorance.
AND SUCH AN IGNORANT ‘I’ CANNOT BE WHAT SRI BHAGWAN AFFIRMS, “I AM BEYOND EVEN SLEEP.”
It is obvious from the above discussion that ‘I’ in reality must be what ‘I’ was all along in dream and sleep also, without the qualities of those states.  WAS ‘I’ NOT? It is also obvious that ‘I’ must be the unqualified substratum underlying these states, and that is the Reality, our real Self, the Swarupa.

Sri Bhagwan exhorts us to transcend the plane of relativity. What is this plane of relativity we speak about?  ON  THAT  PLANE  A  SEPARATE  BEING  SEEMS  TO  APPEAR  AND  SEEMS  TO  KNOW  SOMETHING  APART  FROM  ITSELF. That is, subject appears and along with it appear myriad objects. However, there must be a unity underlying the subject and the object.

Now, let us see from another angle:
The subject or drik is of the nature of intelligence as opposed to objects which is of the nature of ‘achit’ or insentience. Sri Bhagwan therefore points out that the underlying unity must be akin to the subject or the drik. It cannot be of the nature of the object, achit, or drishya.

DEAR  DEVOTEES,  SRI  BHAGWAN  HAS  REVEALED  THAT  SEEKING  THE  SUBJECT  OR  THE  DRIK, UNTILL  ALL  DRISHYA  DISAPPEARS,  THE  DRIK  WILL  BECOME  SUBTLER  AND  SUBTLER  UNTIL THE ABSOLUTE  DRIK  ALONE  SURVIVES.  Sri Bhagwan says that this process is called ‘dishya vilaya’ or disappearance of the objective world.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil 

     
 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2099 on: August 20, 2012, 09:22:59 AM »
Dear devotees,

Wanton killing, or treating trees and plants mercilessly, is as inappropriate and cruel as, in my view, killing hapless creatures for palatable diet or food. People in general and spiritual aspirants in particular should learn from the following anecdote:

At the time that Bhagwan was to go out in the morning today, the labourers who had been deputed to gather mangoes from the tree near the steps towards the mountain began beating the tree with sticks to knock down the mangoes instead of climbing the tree and plucking them one by one. In the course of the beating, the mango leaves also were falling down in heaps. Hearing the sound of the beating even while seated on the sofa, Bhagwan sent word through His attendants not to do so and when He went out as usual, saw mango leaves lying in heaps. Unable to bear the cruel sight, He began saying in harsh tone to the labourers, “Enough of this! Now go! When you are to gather the fruit, do you have to beat the tree so that the leaves fall off? In return for giving us fruit, is the tree to be beaten with sticks? Who gave you this work? Instead of beating the tree, you might as well cut it to the roots. You need not gather the fruit. Go away!”
Bhagwan’s voice, which was like thunder, reverberated in the ears of all who were there and made them tremble with fear. The bamboos that were held aloft were brought down and placed on the ground. The labourers stood with folded hand like statues. They had no words to speak. When I saw the personification of kindness towards nature in an angry mood, my heart beat violently and my eyes were full of tears. Can one who is so much moved by the falling of the leaves of a tree, bear pain in the minds of human beings ? Bhagwan Ramana is indeed KARUNAPOORNA SUDHABDHI,  the ocean filled with the nectar of compassion.
By the time He returned from the gosala side, the devotees had gathered the leaves into a heap and begged Him to forgive the fault. Bhagwan went into the hall, saying, “How cruel! See how many beatings were showered on the tree! How big is the heap of leaves! OH!”

Dear devotee, mother Echamma famously decided to perfrom puja with a lakh of tender leaves and even started it after informing Sri Bhagwan about it. However summer set in, and she could not gather more than fifty thousand leaves, even though she wandered all over the Mountain. Tired, she came to ventilate her grievances to Sri Bhagwan.
Sri Bhagwan sais, “If you cannot get the leaves, why not pinch yourself and do puja?”
She said, “Oh, but that will be painful!”
Sri Bhagwan said, “If it pains you to pinch your body, is it not painful to the tree when you cut its leaves?”
She turned pale and asked, “Why did you not tell me earlier, Swami?”
Sri Bhagwan replied, “When you know that pinching the body is painful, why did you not know that the tree will be equally pained if you rob it of its leaves? Do I have to tell you that?”
                                                                       Source: Letters From Sri Ramanasramam   

HIS LIFE, WHILE IN BODY, IS ITSELF, A GREAT TEACHING. Therefore, His devotees must consciously make efforts to follow and emulate, in spirit as well as in actions, what He taught by examples, as one consciously engages oneself in the practice of enquiry as taught by Him.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil