Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 287447 times)

Vladimir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #195 on: December 01, 2010, 05:46:10 PM »
Quote
Dear Vladimir,

Yes.  Once you give up the doership and enjoyership [Kartrutvam
and Bhoghatatvam], which are both the products of "I', then you
can do anything in this world.

Dear Subramanian,

Am I in this world or is this world inside me?
Many people say "This world is inside me', but in fact 100% convinced they live in the world.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #196 on: December 01, 2010, 06:19:06 PM »



Dear Vladimir,

For a Jnani who is ever abiding in Brahman, all the world appear,
sustain and dissolve in him.  For him, the world is within him.
Since in Brahman, there is nothing apart from Brahman, the one
without a second, where can there be something other than Brahman. So, the world is within him.  But for beginners and seekers, they think that 'they are in the world'.  If they are really in the world, where has the world gone in deep sleep?  In deep sleep, there is no world, there is no wife, no children, no office, no boss.  Only Me. In sleep it is said that Jiva gets drowned in Swatma Tirtham, the cool waters of his own Atma.  Only when he wakes up, the mind makes the mischief.  If he could make the mind quiscent,
then there is no world only Atma.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #197 on: December 01, 2010, 07:44:11 PM »
  Dear Sri soham, when a devotee asked from Bhagwan Sri Ramana whether a devotee's actions would always be good only, His reply , "Should be. However He is not concerned really with  good and bad of His actions." As Sri Subramanian sir said, Greek philosopher Plato in his utopian state of  Sparta, pinpointed an enlightened to rule the state. Yes, of course, only an enlightened one can rule with eqal eye. Thank you. Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #198 on: December 01, 2010, 08:02:28 PM »
   In the above post a devotee asked from Sri Bhagwan whether a Brahmjnani's actions (and not a devotee's actions) would always be good. Sorry for the error. Anil   

soham3

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #199 on: December 01, 2010, 10:58:13 PM »
What is important is not good or bad or evil but differentiation between real and unreal. Of course, Samkhya philosophy & Rig-Veda stress on order in life and what is conducive for attainment of Atman.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #200 on: December 02, 2010, 06:49:32 AM »
  Dear Sri soham3,yes, I also understand that discrimination between the real and the unreal is of paramount importance for all of us as seekers. That is why Sri Bhagwan and other great Gurus have used the Vedantic analogy of the snake and the rope to drive this very point home. We mistake a rope on the ground for a snake, while the snake exists only as an idea in our mind. That idea may cause us a lot of worry and anxiety, and we may even waste a lot of mental energy trying either avoid the non existent snake  or even kill it, but the basic facts remains: there is no snake outside our imagination. When we see the rope, the substratum upon which  our false idea of a snake is superimposed, the idea that there is a snake, and that is real, instantly vanishes. It is not a real snake that has disappeared. The only thing that has disappeared is an erroneous idea. The substratum or the screen upon which  the false idea of the mind has been superimposed is the Self. When we see the mind, the Self, the underlying reality, is not seen. It is hidden by a false but persistent idea. Conversely, when the Self is seen, there is no mind and no entertainmemt of such doubts and argument. But persistent effort, by the Grace of the Guru, is needed most to awake into that which is Bliss and which is our permanent Home. Guru's Grace results, in my view, in persistent Self enquiry. Dear soham3, I have lost access to a computer and I am uploading these posts from my mobile phone. Therefore, kindly bear with me if some error creep in. Thank you. Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #201 on: December 02, 2010, 07:19:07 AM »
  Dear Sri Vladimir, having come to Bhagwan Sri Ramana, the Saviour, and having understood His  technique so well, why say mine is only empty talks.  I am certain that you are, by the Grace of the Guru, on the right course. Anyway, thank you so much for your response. Anil 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #202 on: December 02, 2010, 09:48:40 AM »



Dear soham3,

Yes.  I agree it is more important to differentiate between real and
unreal than to trying to distinguish between good and evil.  But
how will you correctly differentiate between unreal and real.  Many
bogus sadhus had gone behind the unreal, thinking it as Real, and
had fallen to dust.  So the preliminary requisite is to distinguish
between good and evil and eschew evil.  That is why Vedas which
are the first part stipulate this.  Then only one would obtain purity
of mind, chitta suddhi and then become a real differentiator between unreal and real.  This chitta suddhi is the first requisite
prescribed by the first part of Vedas, karma kandas.  The upanishads which are speaking only about Atma and self realization do not much care about preliminaries, because it is presumed for a practicer of atma vidya.   Upanishads say about stories, where
the guru gives a couple of cows and bulls and ask the disciple to graze them in forests and grass lands and come back in 12 years with 1000 cows and bulls.  Why?  This is to test the perseverance and effort of a disciple, who in his jungle years, would learn to distinguish between good and evil and come back duly fit for atma vidya.           

The same Rg Veda which prescribes karmas in the beginning,
says in the upanishad:  You are loving everyone for the sake Self within you.  You are loving your wife and children, for the sake of
Self within you.  The wife, the son and the wealth do not come with you when you die without realizing Atma etc., etc.,



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #203 on: December 02, 2010, 02:17:10 PM »
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, thank you so much for a very nice post. Sir, you have said in the above post that            discrimination between good and evil and eschewing evil are the prerequsites for Atma vidya.  I would like to draw your attention to a statement of Sri Bhagwan  on a simillar question. He has said that Self is the repository of all good and all ethical values. He has further said that Self enquiry itself takes care of the age old vasanas. My understanding about this statement of Sri Bhagwgn is that as a sadhak advances in the practice of Self enquiry, mind to that extent goes on purifying and finally resulting in chitta sudhi. Nevertheless, sir, to learn from you that Vedanta is silent on the ethical conduct because it is presumed for those desirous of Atma vidya is a very important understanding. Regards, Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #204 on: December 02, 2010, 02:43:06 PM »



Dear Anil,

Bhagavan Ramana mentioned what you have said only to highlight
the Self Inquiry.  Self Inquiry if done, with great effort and with
no break, will itself confer chitta-suddhi and there is no need for
karmas, yoga practices etc.,  Even here, He did not add in the list
devotion, because devotion to God or Self is a must and it should
go along with Self Inquiry.  Unless you desire the Self [which He said is the only desire one should possess], how can one attain self realization?   He spoke about devotion to be part and parcel of
Self Inquiry.  It may start with devotion to a particular anthromarphic god and it becomes experience of the god.  Siva
becomes Sivam.

In fact, Bhagavan Ramana has also said that true namaskaram is bowing of the ego.

See Maharshi's Gospel:-

Question:  What is the relation between Jnana and bhakti?
Bhagavan:  The eternal, unbroken, natural state of abiding in
the Self is Jnana.  To abide in the Self, you must love the Self.
Since God is verily the Self, love of the Self is love of God.  And
that is bhakti.  Jnana and bhakti are thus one and the same.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #205 on: December 02, 2010, 07:12:24 PM »
  Ji,yes,thank you so much,sir. Sri N. A. Mohan Rao, in July-September issue of the Mountain Path,has written that " it is clear that both Realization and Liberation are states of abidance in the Self. Realization is 'thoughtless', but can co-exist with dormant vasanas. Liberation, on the other hand, is 'thoughtless' as well as ' vasana-less'. Realisation, when it is rendered permanent by the eradication of all the vasanas, is Liberation". This implies that Realisation is still in the realm of sadhana. Sri Rao refers to Talks,no 95, Sri Bhagwgn says that experience is said to be temporary or permanent. This also, in my view, clearly implies that sporadic experiences with innate tendencies not yet burnt always posing a potential danger to revert one back to old stupidity. Dear sir, whatever, I have always felt that an earnest devotee should with real heart atleast make efforts, with Guru's Grace, to curb consciovsly evil instincts. Regards, Anil       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #206 on: December 03, 2010, 08:06:42 AM »
  Q. In the Ribh Gita it is mentiomed that bad qualities and good qualities are both Brahman. Does that mean that we don't need to care about good and bad qualities ?
Annamalai Swami:-      " to abide knowingly as consciousness is to be a deep, undisturbed peace, even though thoughts and activities may be manifesting in it. When you see through  the eyes of wisdom, there is only peace. No  bondage or samsara touches you. Even to say that the Self is peace is not quite correct. I call it peace, but really, it is not something that can be  described or defined by words.
  Good and bad qualities are ideas that manifests in the mind, in samsara. They are concepts that vanish when  only peace remains. When you are peace, when you are consciousness, all good qualities will manifest in you and through you, but you will not be aware of them as being ' good '.  You will jurt be that peace." 
   From Final Talks   
So, the idea of good and bad are concepts that will vanish only when the peace or the Self remains.
In Shrimadbhagwat Gita, V-2.59, Lord Sri krishana says that the one who has ceased to enjoy sense objects by their sense organs, are not quite free from vasanas, for  'rasa' in the sense objects for such a person remains, and which goes away only after one has attained steady abidance in the  Self. Sri Muruganar  also sang that vasanas die only when the eye of the Self fall on them. Thank you. Anil
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #207 on: December 03, 2010, 09:08:36 AM »



Yes.  Only the Jiva who transcends the mind and becomes Peace,
which is another name for the Self, can only be at the state which
is beyond good and evil.  Good and evil are products of mind, like
Time and Space.  The Self realized Jnani has no place for either of them in his scheme of things.

Once Annamalai Swami was setting right the flooring of kitchen,
when he had to open some slabs for replacement with new slabs
with cementing in between.  He found a huge army of cockroaches
coming out of the bottom of the slabs.  He was hesitant to kill them
and was "dancing" on the place with great care to avoid stamping
on the cockroaches and not knowing what to do.  Bhagavan Ramana,
who came there saw him and told him:  "Why are you dancing?
Kill them all and replace the new slabs!"  Annamalai Swami was
wondering how a Jnani can give orders to kill cockroaches.  He must
have perhaps understood His state years later.  The same Sri
Bhagavan later was reluctant to kill the bugs on the sofa and even
intervened to avoid a squirrel being caught by a cat and in the process fell down and had a bone fracture on the shoulders.  The latter two events are to demonstrate to the sadhaks to avoid killing.  The first one was His portrayal of a Jnani.       



Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #208 on: December 03, 2010, 09:23:37 AM »



Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, on the same subject:
[Tr. David Godman]:

Verse 275:  Those who are yoked to samsara by the twin karmas
[good and bad] that arise through ignorance, the powerful dense
delusion, suffer.  The devotion and longing they feel for the grace
of the Guru, who has taken the responsibility for them, is alone the medicine for dispelling their mental anguish.

Muruganar adds here:  It is the daily experience of everyone that sorrow arises through mental movements.  These arise in the Jiva
through samsara, which in turn arises from the twin karmas.  As the restlessness of the mind is itself sorrow, the medicine to destroy it is very much needed by sadhakas.  That medicine is meditating on the Guru's grace by following his teachings, which lead to complete contentment of mind.  You should know that there is no greater calming medicine than this.

Verse 276:  The demeaning good and evil karma [of devotees] originates from activities prompted by the desire and aversion
that arise through vasanas.  He alone is the true Guru who dispels their suffering and bestows the bliss of liberation upon those who, tossed about the power of their karma, seek refuge in him.

Verse 570:  An ignorant person thinks, through the delusion I-am-the body, that an individual 'I' exists separate from God,
the complete utter fullness.  So long as he believes himself to be an individual, it has to be accepted that he will alternately perform good and bad actions through the ego-feeling 'I am the doer' and will necessarily receive and experience their results in the form of joy and misery.

Verse 880:  The infinite eye is only being-consciousness.  As
it has no fraction [within itself], nothing whatsoever exists in its [perspective] to be known as "another".  It is devoid of the vision of the pairs of opposites such as good and evil, [and also devoid of]
space, time, cause, effect, karma and so on.



Arunachala Siva.         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #209 on: December 03, 2010, 01:49:25 PM »
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
 
  Thank you so much for two very,very nice and enlightening posts. They cleared some of my doubts whth regard to goodness and evil. But I had not been aware that Sri Bhagwan had ordered Sri Annamalai  Swami to kill the cockroaches while he was replacing slabs of the kitchen floor. I Knew that He intervened and saved a squirrel from getting caught by a cat and in the process injured Himself. I still wonder what these two acts of Sri Bhagwan signify for the seekers. I am myself often in dilemma as to whether I should, being a devotee of Sri Bhagwan, kill the ants that ascend to my bed or even whether I should kill the mosquitos that, left to themselves, bite so pinchingly.

  But I am more than cent percent certain that the Grace of Guru is alone the medicine for mental anguish. Worldly solutions at best are either  temporary  or sorrows in disguise which further accentuate the anguish and agony. Regards, Anil