Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756595 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1785 on: May 26, 2012, 07:22:41 PM »
Desr Anil.

Sri Bhagavan put a dash in His letter of parting and also later when He was asked to find the written details after the Commission
of enquiry. Some times, He used to write Arunachala. He never put His name. He was that way nameless and formless.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1786 on: May 27, 2012, 09:38:35 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. He is the only Illumination—ever— nameless and formless.
“No form or feature has He of His own,
Yet form and feature to all beings gives;
Knowledge and ignorance, both to Him unknown.”

Thank you so much, sir.
Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1787 on: May 27, 2012, 09:41:16 AM »
What is this ‘I’ that rises from within?
Only a thought that, like a bubble, floats
Up to the troubled surface of Awareness.
In sleep the sea is still, no bubble rises:
Then too you are.
You are not the ‘I’ that rises and then sets,
You are the sole Awareness in the All,
The eternal, uncreated Light of Being.
Sri Muruganar, from the poem ’Suttaruttal’ translated by Prof. K. Swaminathan


Dear Devotees,

In sleep the sea is still, no bubble rises, then too you are. Are you not? So, bubble cannot realise who you are. Can thought ever realise ‘I am that I am?’ It is arrogance, vanity and bankruptcy of thought to imagine That which is unimaginable. No information whatsoever can be obtained about the Self by what the body and senses perceive, or by what thought and feelings tell us. Self is always the Self. ‘I AM’ ALWAYS THAT ‘I AM’. Therefore, how can the Absolute Reality become the object of perception? Who and what will perceive It? The body or the thought?

Dear devotees, can’t we direct our attention to what remains over when thoughts, feelings and all sense-perceptions have disappeared. Only that which is ever there is alone true ’I’. Thoughts, feelings and perceptions leave us as fast as they have come.
THEREFORE, I CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING PERCEIVED. WE ARE MERE PRESENCE, MERE ILLUMINATION, IN WHICH ALL PERCEPTIONS ARISE.
When the power of attention is directed to the Self, what happens? It itself is dissolved into the Self and Awareness is aware of Itself.

Each and every perception, sensorial or mental is nothing but only a movement in Consciousness, in Light. JUST AS WAVES IN THE SEA.

Thank you,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1788 on: May 27, 2012, 02:56:43 PM »
“ONE’S VERY BEING IS THAT.”

Dear Devotees,

Here is a conversation you would like to go through:

Sri Narayana Iyer: Sri Bhagwan’s words are so pleasing to hear but their import is beyond our comprehension. That seems to be far too much for us to even hope to realise.
Sri G.V. Subbaramayya: Our grasp is only intellectual. If Sri Bhagwan would be pleased to direct us with a few instructions, we should be greatly benefitted.
Sri Bhagwan: He who instructs an ardent seeker to do this or that is not a true Master. The seeker is already afflicted by his activities and wants peace and rest. In other words he wants cessation of his activities. Instead of that, he is told to do something in addition to or in place of his other activities. Can that be a help to the seeker?
Activity is creation; ACTIVITY IS THE DESTRUCTION OF ONE’S INHERENT HAPPINESS. If activity is advocated, the advisor is not a master but a killer.  Death, Yama, may be said to have come in the guise of such a Master. He cannot liberate the aspirant; he can only strengthen his fetters.
Sri G.V. Subbaramayya: When we attempt to cease from activity, the very attempt is action. So activity is inevitable.
Sri Bhagwan: True. Thayumanavar has alluded to it. A doctor advises a patient to take the prescribed medicine with only one condition. That condition is not to think of a monkey when he takes the medicine. Can the patient ever take the medicine? Will he not think of a monkey whenever he tries not to do so? SO, WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO GIVE UP THOUGHTS, THEIR OBJECT IS FRUSTRATED BY THE VERY ATTEMPT.
Sri G.V. Subbramayya: How then is the state to be gained?
Sri Bhagwan: What is there to be attained? A thing remains to be attained if it is not already attained. BUT HERE, ONE’S VERY BEING IS THAT.
                                                                                          Power of the Presence, Part three

Dear devotees, yes, what one is trying to attain is oneself. One’s very being is That Whose nature is Bliss, Happiness. Moreover, Sri Bhawan says that activity is the destruction of one’s own inherent happiness. Even attempt to give up thoughts frustrates the objective of realising the Atma-swarupa, for it makes us fall from the Natural State of mere Being, or Witness or Presence. Therefore, in my view, the right way is to go inward—deeper and deeper—seeking without seeking the Source from where emanates the ‘I’-thought and myriad associated thoughts. Self-attention alone is the Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan. If the Self is the Goal, what better way can there be to be It other than unwavering and intense attention to It?

Thank you,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1789 on: May 27, 2012, 03:57:07 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Bhagwan Sri Ramana and Sri Ram Krishna are unique in the annals of spiritual history of this nation. Both heralded a new spiritual era.
Dear Sri Ravi, Path of Knowledge and path of Devotion are the same, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, though they may differ from each other in form in the initial stages. As I have understood, Sri Ram Krishna followed the path of Devotion, worshipped the Mother, and attained Realisation. Bhagwan Sri Ramana attained Realisation through the path of Atma-vichara during the famous ‘Death experience’ itself.

Now, I wish to know from you what is the spiritual practice Sri Ram Krishna emphasised for His devotees at large and what is the spiritual practice He emphasised  and enjoined for His close devotees, such as, Sri Vivekananda, Sri Master Mahashaya, etc? I hope you would kindly respond and give an apt reply in brief to my question.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1790 on: May 27, 2012, 04:00:45 PM »
Anil,
Yes,what you have said is indeed true.I will respond a little later on what you have asked.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1791 on: May 27, 2012, 04:52:03 PM »
Dear Sri Udai,

If one is already abiding as That, what is the use, rising as the ego-mind from being, to keep on saying or repeating or suggesting, "I am That, I am That"?

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1792 on: May 27, 2012, 05:08:09 PM »
Quote from Sri Udai:
"dont believe it. Be it. The saints were no fools to present those statements. They have to be lived.
One may use the words as reminders during sadhana."

Dear Sri Udai,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has taught that one should understand intellectually the significance and import of the Mahavakyas and abide as the Self. For one is ever That.

Regards,
  Anil   



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1793 on: May 27, 2012, 07:45:24 PM »
The supreme reality is being-consciousness-bliss. For the most highly qualified amongst those who ardently seek that reality in order to free themselves from the searing heat of birth, it is only through enquiry into the real nature of the jiva, which is indicated by the word ‘thou’ [in ‘That thou art’], that the glory of liberation will be attained.
                                                                     V.506, G.V.K., Edited by Sri David Godman 

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1794 on: May 27, 2012, 08:45:55 PM »
Anil,
You asked about the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna.We will see in a nutshell what that is and recognize that the diagnosis of the disease of samsara is the same as that of sri Bhagavan :)
Both say:"The feeling of 'I and mine' has covered the Reality. Because of this we do not see Truth."

Sri Bhagavan advocates a relentless enquiry into the sense of the ego,the feeling of 'I'.This would make the mind turn inward and subside in the source,the Self or God.

Sri Ramakrishna says:
"The feeling of 'I and mine' has covered the Reality. Because of this we do not see Truth.
Attainment of Chaitanya, Divine Consciousness, is not possible without the knowledge of
Advaita, Non-duality. After realizing Chaitanya one enjoys Nityananda, Eternal Bliss. One
enjoys this Bliss after attaining the state of a paramahamsa."

He says again:
The "servant I"
MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases
are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back
. You
may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up
tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as
you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that
feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one
. Sweet things cause
acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.
"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid
of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He
cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion
is prescribed for this cycle
.
This is an easy path. You will attain God if you sing His name and glories and pray to Him
with a longing heart. There is not the least doubt about it.
"Suppose you draw a line on the surface of water with a bamboo stick. The water appears
to be divided into two parts; but the line doesn't remain for any length of time. The 'servant
I'or the 'devotee I' or the 'child I' is only a line drawn with the ego and is not real"
.

If we can get rid of Body Consciousness,then we can realize that we are the Self.If not,the best attitude is to keep the 'I am the devotee' and this way as the feeling intensifies,the body consciousness  is overcome and eventually one realizes the Truth.

This is how Sri Ramakrishna describes the ripening:
"Bhakti matured becomes bhava. Next is mahabhava, then prema, and last of all
is the attainment of God. Gauranga experienced the states of mahabhava and prema. When
prema is awakened, a devotee completely forgets the world; he also forgets his body, which
is so dear to a man
. Gauranga experienced prema. He jumped into the ocean, thinking it to
be the Jamuna."

We see how people are governed by feelings and emotions than pure Intellect.Time and again we encounter this phenomenon of 'Reaction'. :)
We then bring all ingenuity into justifying our 'Reaction'-we cover it up by saying that it is not on account of our insufficiency but in deference to not hurting other's feelings that we are withdrawing,etc. :)
Again when we change our mind,we again say that it is in deference to other's wishes that we are back,etc  :)

This is true for most of us.Slaves of Emotions as we are ,we are unable to break free however much we may like to 'think' otherwise.With this yawning gap between what we feel and what we think,imagine or like to be-Sri Ramakrishna pitched the teaching, taking this duality into account.He advised the seeker to first get rid of all this conceit and falsehood through devotion and a spirit of self surrender.
I will continue a little later.
Namaskar.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 10:12:24 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1795 on: May 28, 2012, 06:01:59 AM »
Anil/Friends,
In continuation,here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
SUB-JUDGE: "Sir, we are householders. How long should we perform our worldly
duties?"
MASTER: "Surely you have duties to perform. You must bring up your children, support
your wife, and provide for her in case of your death. If you don't, then I shall call you
unkind. Sages like Sukadeva had compassion. He who has no compassion is no man."
SUB-JUDGE: "How long should one support one's children?"
MASTER: "As long as they have not reached their majority. When the chick becomes a
full-grown bird and can look after itself, then the mother bird pecks it and doesn't allow it
to come near her." (All laugh.)
SUB-JUDGE: "What is a householder's duty to his wife?"
MASTER: "You should give her spiritual advice and support her during your lifetime and
provide for her livelihood after your death, if she is a chaste wife.
"But if you are intoxicated with the Knowledge of God, then you have no more duties to
perform. Then God Himself will think about your morrow if you yourself cannot do so.
God Himself will think about your family if you are intoxicated with Him. If a landlord
dies leaving behind a minor son, then a guardian appointed by the court takes charge of the
son. These are all points of law; you know them.
"
SUB-JUDGE: "Yes, sir."
VIJAY: "Ah! Priceless words! God Himself carries on His shoulders all the responsibilities
of a person who thinks of Him with single-minded devotion and is mad with divine love. A
minor gets his guardian without seeking him. Alas, when shall I have that state of mind?
How lucky they are who feel that way!
"
TRAILOKYA: "Is it ever possible, sir, to have true knowledge of God while living in the
world? Can one realize God here?"
MASTER (with a smile): "Why do you worry? You are enjoying both treacle and refined
sugar. (All laugh.) You are living in the world with your mind in God. Isn't that true? Why
shouldn't a man realize God in the world'? Certainly he can."
TRAILOKYA: What are the signs of a householder having attained Knowledge?"
MASTER: "His tears will flow, and the hair on his body will stand on end. No sooner does
he hear the sweet name of God than the hair on his body stands on end from sheer delight,
and tears roll down his cheeks. "A man cannot get rid of body-consciousness as long as he
is attached to worldly things and loves 'woman and gold'. As he becomes less and less
attached to worldly things, he approaches nearer and nearer to the Knowledge of Self
. He
also becomes less and less conscious of his body. He attains Self-Knowledge when his
worldly attachment totally disappears. Then he realizes that body and soul are two separate
things. It is very difficult to separate with a knife the kernel of a coconut from the shell
before the milk inside has dried up. When the milk dries up, the kernel rattles inside the
shell. At that time it loosens itself from the shell. Then the fruit is called a dry coconut
."

continued....


Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1796 on: May 28, 2012, 06:07:37 AM »
Anil/Friends,
Continuation of the excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Signs of God-vision
"The sign of a man's having realized God is that he has become like a dry coconut. He has
become utterly free from the consciousness that he is the body. He does not feel happy or
unhappy with the happiness or unhappiness of the body. He does not seek the comforts of
the body. He roams about in the world as a jivanmukta, one liberated in life. 'The devotee
of Kali is a jivanmukta , full of Eternal Bliss.'
"When you find that the very mention of God's name brings tears to your eyes and makes
your hair stand on end, then you will know that you have freed yourself from attachment to
'woman and gold' and attained God. If the matches are dry, you get a spark by striking only
one of them. But if they are damp, you don't get a spark even if you strike fifty. You only
waste matches
. Similarly, if your mind is soaked in the pleasure of worldly things, in
'woman and gold', then God-Consciousness will not be kindled in you. You may try a
thousand times, but all your efforts will be futile. But no sooner does attachment to worldly
pleasure dry up than the spark of God flashes forth.
"

Force your demand on the Divine Mother
TRAILOKYA: "What is the way to dry up the craving for worldly pleasure?"
MASTER: "Pray to the Divine Mother with a longing heart. Her vision dries up all craving
for the world and completely destroys all attachment to 'woman and gold'. It happens
instantly if you think of Her as your own mother. She is by no means a godmother. She is
your own mother
. With a yearning heart persist in your demands on Her. The child holds to
the skirt of its mother and begs a penny of her to buy a kite. Perhaps the mother is
gossiping with her friends. At first she refuses to give the penny and says to the child: 'No,
you can't have it. Your daddy has asked me not to give you money. When he comes home
I'll ask him about it. You will get into trouble if you play with a kite now.' The child begins
to cry and will not give up his demand. Then the mother says to her friends: 'Excuse me a
moment. Let me pacify this child.' Immediately she unlocks the cash-box with a click and
throws the child a penny.
"You too must force your demand on the Divine Mother. She will come to you without fail.
I once said the same thing to some Sikhs when they visited the temple at Dakshineswar. We
were conversing in front of the Kali temple. They said, 'God is compassionate.' 'Why
compassionate?' I asked. They said, 'Why, revered sir, He constantly looks after us, gives us
righteousness and wealth, and provides us with our food.' 'Suppose', I said, 'a man has
children. Who will look after them and provide them with food-their own father, or a man
from another village?'
SUB-JUDGE: "Is not God, then, compassionate, sir?"
MASTER: "Why should you think that? I just made a remark. What I mean to say is that
God is our very own. We can exert force on Him. With one's own people one can even go
so far as to say, 'You rascal! Won't you give it to me?
'

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1797 on: May 28, 2012, 06:15:10 AM »
Anil/Friends,
Continuation of the excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Futility of egotism
(To the sub-judge) "Let me ask you one thing. Are vanity and egotism the result of
knowledge or of ignorance? Egotism is of the nature of tamas; it is begotten by ignorance.
On account of the barrier of ego one does not see God. 'All troubles come to an end when
the ego dies.
' It is futile to be egotistic. Neither body nor wealth will last. Once a drunkard
was looking at the image of Durga. At the sight of Her decorations, he said, 'Well, Mother!
However You may fix Yourself up, after two or three days they will drag You out and
throw You into the Ganges.' (All laugh.)
"So I say to you all, you may be a judge or anybody else, but it is all for two days only.
Therefore you should give up vanity and pride
."

Anil,The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna is a wonderful book that gives practical contextual advise on sadhana.
You asked whether Sri Ramakrishna had any other teaching for the likes of Swami Vivekananda or 'M'(Master Mahasya).Nothing truly different than what we find in The Gospel!I will answer this a little later.
Thanks very much for giving this opportunity to listen to the words of the Master.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1798 on: May 28, 2012, 08:14:46 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“The feeling of 'I and mine' has covered the Reality. Because of this we do not see Truth.
Attainment of Chaitanya, Divine Consciousness, is not possible without the knowledge of
Advaita, Non-duality. After realizing Chaitanya one enjoys Nityananda, Eternal Bliss. One
enjoys this Bliss after attaining the state of a paramahamsa."

He says again:
The "servant I"
MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases
are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You
may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up
tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as
you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that
feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause
acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.
"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid
of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He
cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion
is prescribed for this cycle.
man cannot get rid of body-consciousness as long as he
is attached to worldly things and loves 'woman and gold'. As he becomes less and less
attached to worldly things, he approaches nearer and nearer to the Knowledge of Self. He
also becomes less and less conscious of his body. He attains Self-Knowledge when his
worldly attachment totally disappears. Then he realizes that body and soul are two separate
things. It is very difficult to separate with a knife the kernel of a coconut from the shell
before the milk inside has dried up. When the milk dries up, the kernel rattles inside the
shell. At that time it loosens itself from the shell. Then the fruit is called a dry coconut."
________________________________________
continued....
Force your demand on the Divine Mother
TRAILOKYA: "What is the way to dry up the craving for worldly pleasure?"
MASTER: "Pray to the Divine Mother with a longing heart. Her vision dries up all craving
for the world and completely destroys all attachment to 'woman and gold'. It happens
instantly if you think of Her as your own mother. She is by no means a godmother. She is
your own mother
On account of the barrier of ego one does not see God. 'All troubles come to an end when
the ego dies.' It is futile to be egotistic. Neither body nor wealth will last. Once a drunkard
was looking at the image of Durga. At the sight of Her decorations, he said, 'Well, Mother!
However You may fix Yourself up, after two or three days they will drag You out and
throw You into the Ganges.' (All laugh.)
"So I say to you all, you may be a judge or anybody else, but it is all for two days only.
Therefore you should give up vanity and pride."
________________________________________

Dear Sri Ravi,

Speechless and wordless, this little self finds itself too small to register a vain response to what, in its view, is supremely Sublime Teaching, delivered out of great compassion, by a supremely Divine master.
I feel that It is sheer Grace of Sri Bhagwan that this ordinary self is face to face today with what was hither to lacking in his spiritual seeking, through you.

Dear Sri Ravi, I felt after going through your posts that Paramhamsa Sri Ramkrishna laid great emphasis on love and devotion to the Divine Mother with Knowledge. Whereas Bhagwan Sri Ramana taught Jnana with love and Bhakti for the Divine. It is indeed wonderful for me to discern an extraordinary unity underlying the two Great Teachings delivered by two Great Masters. THE TEACHING OF THE ONE GREAT ONE COMPLEMENTS THE TEACHING OF THE OTHER GREAT ONE. BOTH ARE ONE AND THE SAME.


Thank you so  much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1799 on: May 28, 2012, 08:35:01 AM »
Anil,
I enjoyed reading your post.How true and sincere and earnest!
Yes,this is what Sri Bhagavan meant by 'Bhakti jnAna mAtA';This means that Bhakti begets Knowledge.
Wish you the very Best.
Namaskar.