Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756802 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1770 on: May 26, 2012, 02:25:02 PM »
Dear Anil,

Spiritual practice (i.e Self Inquiry) takes a long time to fructify. But the Realization after all the efforts is instantaneous.

For this Realization, apart from Self Inquiry, Grace of the Sadguru is also essential.

Sri Bhagavan said once:

Self Inquiry may or may not give Realization.

Self Inquiry + Grace would definitely give Realization.

Sometime, Grace alone can confer Realization.

There are grades in both maturity and also in types of seekers.


Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1771 on: May 26, 2012, 02:36:30 PM »
Dear Devotees,

When one is the Self, there is no relativity, no ignorance. When one is Pure intelligence or  Pure illumination, there is no discrimination and there is no so called DISCERNMENT either. Mind, jivas, Jnana, ajnana, etc., including all discussions on them, are mere words, from the stand-point of Absolute Reality.  ONLY THE SELF IS AND IT ADMITS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. All these discussions are possible only from the stand-point of relativity and ignorance called ‘I’-conceit or the ego.  Yes, one is a baby, a child, a youth, an adult and then an old person. But the Essence remains the same all through different stages of life. Even this discernment is possible only from the stand-point of relativity only. AND FROM THE STAND-POINT OF RELATIVITY, THERE ARE ADVANCED SEEKERS AND THERE ARE RAW SEEKERS, SO FAR AS SHEDDING THE IGNORANCE BY SPIRITUAL PRACTICE IS CONCERNED, AS SRI BHAGWAN HIMSELF SAID. Otherwise, how can a certain seeker immediately realises Atma-swarupa the moment he hears the truth from the Guru and some take years to even recognise the ‘I am’ness in them and start holding on to It?

Dear i,

the stand point of relativity itself is Maya. it is like in a dream, some of them attaining realisation quickly and some attaining realisation taking long time. In dream, the same self manifest as somany other people and multiplies himself, but it is all the same self, in the end.

This question of relativity is just dream. Infact, there is no realisation, truly speaking. There is no relativity, there is no actuality. Both are false.

That is why Sri Bhagavan has said, For a Jnani, everything, every body is Jnani.

Please read this, stated in At the Feet of Bhagavan:

I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU!


MR. Noles, an Italian, not more than 30 years old yet well-read in philosophy, both Eastern and Western, and eager to imbibe the spirit of Sri Maharshi’s teachings, was at our Ashram once, and he had very many interesting talks with Bhagavan.

One morning Sri Bhagavan was telling of the state of a jivanmukta; how he is the ever-aware Self, the Witness-Consciousness transcending space and time and causation, the fullness of Being; how he is the non-actor, non-enjoyer, and yet at the same time the greatest of actors, the greatest of enjoyers, and so forth.

Well, this was too much for Mr. Noles to digest. He put a straight question to Sri Bhagavan: “Are you, or are you not, now talking to us?” By an answer to this question he wanted to know how Sri Bhagavan expressed Himself consistently. Others around eagerly watched for what would fall from Sri Bhagavan’s lips.

Sri Bhagavan gave Mr. Noles a meaningful look and said in a most emphatic tone: “No, ‘I’ am not talking to you.” In an ecstatic mood Mr. Noles echoed: “No; Sri Bhagavan is not talking to us; Sri Bhagavan simply IS.”

The devotees present greatly enjoyed this conversation.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1772 on: May 26, 2012, 02:42:33 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. "Without the shining light of Grace, what can the insignificant jivas do to escape the net of delusion and gain clarity?' And in V. 512, G.V.K., Sri Muruganar sings: Self-realisation which appears very difficult will be attained very easily through the power of Grace.

Regards,
  Anil

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1773 on: May 26, 2012, 02:44:14 PM »
Talk 601.

G. V. Subbaramiah, an Andhra devotee, mentioned something about time.
M.: What is time? It posits a state, one’s recognition of it, and also the changes which affect it. The interval between two states is called time. A state cannot come into being unless the mind calls it into existence. The mind must be held by the Self. If the mind is not made use of there is no concept of time. Time and space are in the mind but one’s true state lies beyond the mind. The question of time does not arise at all to the one established in one’s true nature.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1774 on: May 26, 2012, 02:59:16 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

All that exists is the Reality which is the Atma-swarupa. All else is false and illusory like the snake in the rope. Silence of the Pure Awareness alone is 'I'. The true significance and import of 'I am' is to be still. Thank you so, much.

Regards
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1775 on: May 26, 2012, 03:09:18 PM »
Nagaraj,
"i am am no where insisting, i am some Vallalaar or am i making some statements that i have realised truth or something."
Who said so?I have simply corrected your quotation but you seem to be reading more into what I have said about that statement of vaLLaLar! :)

You have raised a few more thoughts:
"Don't we take the medicine given by doctors out of faith? Everybody has to tap into their intuitive intelligence, take what is to be taken and disregard what is to be disregarded.

Therefore, each one takes what he discerns, it is completely upto the (KoLLvAr),

Now, (KoLLvAr), cant complain, this is not to be given, only this and that has to be given."

No problem taking the medicine prescribed for one!The problem lies in prescribing the same medicine to others!

This is what Sri Ramakrishna says:
it won't do if a man only imagines that he has
God's command.
"God does reveal Himself to man and speak. Only then may one receive His command.
How forceful are the words of such a teacher! They can move mountains. But mere
lectures? People will listen to them for a few days and then forget them. They will never act
upon mere words
.
"At Kamarpukur there is a small lake called the Haldarpukur. Certain people used to befoul
its banks every day. Others who came there in the morning to bathe would abuse the
offenders loudly. But next morning they would find the same thing. The nuisance didn't
stop. (All laugh.) The villagers finally informed the authorities about it. A constable was
sent, who put up a notice on the bank which read: 'Commit no nuisance.' This stopped the
miscreants at once. (All laugh.)
"To teach others, one must have a badge of authority; otherwise teaching becomes a
mockery. A man who is himself ignorant starts out to teach others-like the blind leading the
blind! Instead of doing good, such teaching does harm. After the realization of God one
obtains an inner vision. Only then can one diagnose a person's spiritual malady and give
instruction
.
"Without the commission from God, a man becomes vain. He says to himself, 'I am
teaching people.' This vanity comes from ignorance, for only an ignorant person feels that
he is the doer. A man verily becomes liberated in life if he feels: 'God is the Doer. He alone
is doing everything. I am doing nothing.' Man's sufferings and worries spring only from
his persistent thought that he is the doer."

It is good to have Faith;yet it cannot be used as a cop out during discussion. :)
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1776 on: May 26, 2012, 03:10:31 PM »
Ji. Yes. The question of time and space does not arise for one who is established in one's Atma-swarupa. Thery are mere thoughts and appearances. In absolute truth there is not even thoughts and appearances. Only there is the illumiation. Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1777 on: May 26, 2012, 03:26:45 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
"To teach others, one must have a badge of authority; otherwise teaching becomes a
mockery. A man who is himself ignorant starts out to teach others-like the blind leading the
blind! Instead of doing good, such teaching does harm. After the realization of God one
obtains an inner vision. Only then can one diagnose a person's spiritual malady and give
instruction.
"Without the commission from God, a man becomes vain. He says to himself, 'I am
teaching people.' This vanity comes from ignorance, for only an ignorant person feels that
he is the doer. A man verily becomes liberated in life if he feels: 'God is the Doer. He alone
is doing everything. I am doing nothing.' Man's sufferings and worries spring only from
his persistent thought that he is the doer."

Dear Sri Ravi.
    Pranam,
Ji. Yes. The Teaching, as quoted above, echoes Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching Himself.
Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1778 on: May 26, 2012, 03:28:35 PM »
Dear i (all)

yes, there is no point in discussion, and these are going to be endless. i see, i am no teacher, and, what has been expressed, as well, were not expressed with that attitude, i discern, the purpose of my being here is fulfilled, i am no longer looking for something, or am i eligible to express myself to anybody, as that is not my prarabdha, hence, i relieve myself to continue to practice just abidance.

Extremely grateful and thanks to one and all.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1779 on: May 26, 2012, 03:55:57 PM »
Nagaraj,
"i see, i am no teacher, and, what has been expressed, as well, were not expressed with that attitude"
Friend,please understand the context.All that has been said is that words by themselves do not mean much.There is the nonverbal communication that a Guru brings into play-This is the badge of authority and it is this that is potent.

Here is the Story that Sri Bhagavan narrated:
Question : Can anyone get any benefit by repeating sacred syllables [mantras] picked up casually?
Ramana Maharshi: No. He must be competent and initiated in such mantras. This is illustrated by the story of the king and his minister. A king visited his premier in his residence. There he was told that the premier was engaged in repetition of sacred syllables. The king waited for him, and on meeting him, asked what the mantra was. The premier said that it was the holiest of all, gayatri. The king desired to be initiated by the premier but the premier confessed his inability to initiate him.

Therefore the king learned it from someone else, and, meeting the minister later, he repeated the gayatri and wanted to know if it was right. The minister said that the mantra was correct, but it was not proper for him to say it. When pressed for an explanation, the minister called to a page close by and ordered him to take hold of the king. The order was not obeyed. The order was often repeated, and still not obeyed. The king flew into a rage and ordered the same man to hold the minister, and it was immediately done. The minister laughed and said that the incident was the explanation required by the king. `How?' asked the king. The minister replied, `The order was the same and the executor also, but the authority was different. When I ordered, the effect was nil, whereas, when you ordered, there was immediate effect. Similarly with mantras."

What sri Bhagavan said regarding mantras is applicable to the words of Mahatmas-They have a certain quality and carry a sense of conviction for the listener.Even this is only one side of the Equation!The Listener also needs to be fit to receive and be prepared to make use of it.Otherwise it will only remain as a seed sown awaiting its time to sprout.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1780 on: May 26, 2012, 04:01:25 PM »
Anil,
I truly appreciate and enjoy your single minded devotion to the teachings of Sri Bhagavan.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1781 on: May 26, 2012, 04:35:12 PM »
Dear i,

friend, i genuinely discern what you have, and others have conveyed. Unfortunately, you see, i can only express what i truly can, what i truly see as the best response for every view that comes about, i express, keeping myself in mind each time when i express what i have expressed at various instances, as in, i have seen myself as the questioner and expressed what ever responses made at appropriate posts.

I see there is no possibility of discussions or sharing between oneself. i have observed and convinced only over various instances that each one is only conversing with oneself, when such being the reality here, it is absolutely contradictory here conversing.

Dear friend, once it is discerned, that, even knowledge cannot be shared, knowledge can only come from within, then it pings from within, what i am really doing? after all?

it is discerned that silence alone is best form of communication, all these words too, are meaningless. because, the moment there is conversation, there is just oneself.

my friend, i am not just running into some urgent conclusion. when there is impossibility of communication, then there is no purpose of communication here, when 'This' cannot be communicated 'There' the truth just smiles back, sarcastically, silently asking, what are you going to communicate? what is there to communicate?

As that witness, as that seer alone, what is there to communicate? Truth cannot be communicated or shared - this i discern. only oneself discerns it and yet realises that discernment itself false.

It thus, naturally reclines in silence, it reposes, simply! also i see, that what i am seeing are quite radical as well, such as there is no teaching, that there is none to be taught and none to teach as well. These are dangerous lines of thoughts - i discern. But, all i can say at these radical statements is only that, i have passed through these, i have faced heart shattering revelations as a listener that changed me for good. revelations don't happen in soft and cosy way as generally one would ideally want to attain to liberation. Unfortunately, in my own experiences, i have had to face shocking revelations of truth, the bare simplicity of truths discerned at various instances tremendously blows one away.

one has to face such contradictions, confusions, one does have to face it, yes, the various discernment of truth at various instances slowly drop away our preconceived notions that we are so stuck to. this verily like being killed at various instances, it is that shocking, and yet, funnily there is no death, one self remains being revealed truth at various instances.

Hence, i discern, silence is the best i could share with every one, isn't this a natural discernment?

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1782 on: May 26, 2012, 05:15:03 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1783 on: May 26, 2012, 05:17:39 PM »
“Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
”Hence, i discern, silence is the best i could share with every one, isn't this a natural discernment?”

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. That is true. But discerner is still there discerning beautiful discernments. So long as discerner is not merged in the Ultimate Discernment Itself, that is the Silence of the Pure Awareness, in my view, discernment should continue whether you share it with us or not.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1784 on: May 26, 2012, 06:35:54 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

This again reminds me of the letter that Sri Bhagwan wrote before leaving His worldly home for good after awakening. You must be aware of the content of the letter. Although it begins with the duality of ‘I’ and ‘my father’ in the first sentence but in the second sentence He no longer refers to Himself as ‘I’ but as ‘this’. “It is on a virtuous enterprise that ‘this’ has embarked.”  And at the end, in the space, where the letter is signed, He drew only a dash in place of His signature.

Later on, although He used to refer Himself as ‘I’ and addressed His devotees by you, he, she, they, etc., when a Chinese visitor insisted and pressed Him to sign a copy of the book ‘Who am I?’, He is said to have written  only ‘OM’.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil