Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759091 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1710 on: May 18, 2012, 10:26:19 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Pure Mind is the Self itself.  This has been discretely mentioned by Sri Bhagavan in Verse 5 of Sri Arunachala Ashtakam. Mind rubs
itself and shakes of the impurities and becomes the Self.

( It is something like a dog shaking off its body and licking it thus removing 
the dirt on its body.)

Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1711 on: May 19, 2012, 09:05:48 AM »
Dear Devotees,

In my view, Bhagwan Sri Ramana’s Teaching must prevail at least in this Forum, for we all are His devotees? Are we not ?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana:

The intricate maze of philosophy of different schools is said to clarify matters and reveal the Truth. But in fact they create confusion where no confusion need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious. Why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self.
TAKE THE VEDANTA FOR THE INSTANCE: They say there are fifteen kinds of prana. The student is made to commit the names to memory and also their functions. The air goes up and is called prana; the air goes down and is called apana; operates the indriyas and is called something else. WHY ALL THIS? Why do you classify, give names and enumerate the functions, and so on? IS IT NOT ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT ONE PRANA DOES THE WHOLE WORK?
The anthkarana thinks, desires, wills, reasons, etc., and each function is attributed to one name such as mind, intellect, etc. has anyone seen the pranas or the antahkaranas ? have they any real existence ? THEY ARE MERE CONCEPTIONS. WHEN AND WHERE SUCH CONCEPTIONS END ?

Consider the following:-
A man sleeps. He says on waking that he slept. The question is asked: ‘Why does he not say in his sleep that he is sleeping?’ The answer is given that he is sunk in the Self and cannot speak, like a man who has dived in water to bring out something from the bottom. The diver cannot speak under water; when he has actually recovered the articles he comes out and speaks. Well, what is the explanation?
Being in water, water will flow into his mouth if he were to open the mouth for speaking. Is it not simple ? But the philosopher is not content with this simple fact. He explains, saying that fire is the deity presiding over speech; that it is inimical to water and therefore cannot function. THIS IS CALLED PHILOSOPHY AND THE LEARNERS ARE STRUGGLING TO LEARN ALL THIS! IS IT NOT SHEER WASTE OF TIME? Again the Gods are said to preside over the limbs and the senses of the individual. They are the limbs and the senses of the virat. So they go on explaining Hiranyagarbha, etc. WHY SHOULD CONFUSION BE CREATED AND THEN EXPLAINED AWAY? AH! FORTUNATE IS THE MAN WHO DOES NOT INVOLVE HIMSELF IN THIS MAZE.     

I was indeed fortunate that I never took to it. Had I taken to it, I would probably be nowhere—ALWAYS IN CONFUSION. MY PURVA VASANAS (FORMER TENDENCIES) DIRECTLY TOOK ME TO THE ENQUIRY “WHO AM I?”IT WAS INDEED FORTUNATE.
                                                                         Talk--392

Dear devotees, is learning Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching through His Self-ward pointed books and reading the Sacred Scripture the same ? HE IS OUR GURU. IS HE NOT? THEREFORE, WHY THIS DISPUTE AND ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD READ SASHTRAS OR NOT.
In my view, if anyone who feels that systematic study of the Scripture would help him in sadhana, he must do so by all means. Who stops him? After all it is one of the five sadhanas. Is it not?

NEVERTHELESS, SRI BHAGWAN CAUTIONS THAT FORTUNATE IS THE MAN WHO DOES NOT INVOLVE HIMSELF IN THE INTRICATE MAZE OF THE PHILOSOPHY.

Thank you,
    Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1712 on: May 19, 2012, 10:43:01 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Lord Sri Arunachala and Bhagwan Sri Ramana drew me and I came. I came not to acquire learnedship and for comparative study of different religions or for that matter of Gurus, BUT TO PRACTICE SELF-ENQUIRY OR SELF-SURRENDER AS TAUGHT BY THE GURU AND BECOME SELF-AWARE. Sri Bhagwan has said that all Gurus are one and the same, and that is the Self. AND I SEE SRI BHAGWAN IN ALL SAD-GURUS, knowing fully well that the ESSENCE is the same, and that is the Self. Therefore, there is no conflict whatever. Why should there be any conflict in spiritual matter? I must reiterate once again that there is essential unity in all spiritual matters. If some devotees practice Vichara, this is all right, however, if some others practice surrender, or Bhakti, or japa, dhyana etc., this is all right as well. Yet, if some devotees like to study sashtras, let them do so. A TRUE BHAKTA OF SRI BHAGWAN IN MY VIEW WOUD NEVER OBJECT TO ANYONE OF THE ABOVE. SRI BHAGWAN’S VICHARA IS INCLUSIVE OF ALL PATHS. It is the final straight path.

Thank you,
  Anil   

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1713 on: May 19, 2012, 11:20:42 AM »
Dear i,

i remember here, Brahmasri Nochur recollect one of Bhagavan's wonderful statements, where he says, "Sungachaavadi Thapaadu" meaning one cannot escape the tax posts. He went on to narrate how in villages, there are these tax collecting booths, where the villagers travel from bullock carts, and in one instance, one trrader was fed up to pay taxes in his everyday journey, that he goes inside the jungles and found out a new route to by pass the tax post, but, in the course of the journey, he succumbs himself to sleep, and the bulls that pull the carts, themselves not knowing where to do, again, comes back to the original route it is accustomed to travel everyday, and, which led to the tax booth eventually! One cannot escape this, even if one may go any which ever way, in the maze of jungle, one will have to retrace back to this tax booth, where one cannot fail to ask this taxable question "Who am I"

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1714 on: May 19, 2012, 12:07:08 PM »
Dear Anil, Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagavan's Jnana Vichara is all inclusive. It is Maha Yoga. It is the Whole, without a second.  It cannot be integrated because
it is the Whole. Nor can it be differentiated, because there is no other thing other than the Whole to differentiate.

Maha Yoga comprises all yogas.

Upadesa Saram, Verse 10 says clearly:

Absorption in the Heart of Being
Whence we sprang,
Is the  Path of action, of devotion,
Of union and of knowledge.

All Yogas should finally come to this check post. Chunga chAvadi thappathu, as the cart has to come to the toll gate
or check post to  further proceed, of course, after paying tax, viz., internal renunciation or sarva sanga parityagam.

Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1715 on: May 19, 2012, 04:36:47 PM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
“All Yogas should finally come to this check post. Chunga chAvadi thappathu, as the cart has to come to the toll gate
or check post to  further proceed, of course, after paying tax, viz., internal renunciation or sarva sanga parityagam.”

Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
One cannot escape this, even if one may go any which ever way, in the maze of jungle, one will have to retrace back to this tax booth, where one cannot fail to ask this taxable question "Who am I"

Dear Subramanian Sir and Sri Nagaraj,

Ji, yes, the story of toll tax at the Toll Gate, Chunga chAvadi thappathu, is very apt and a wonderful and fascinating story which teaches that if the Goal is Realisation of the Swarupa, one cannot escape asking the Ultimate Question ‘Who am I?”

Ji. Yes. Every other kind of sadhana, except of Self-enquiry, presupposes the retention of the ego-mind. Nay, the ego-mind is the very instrument for carrying on the sadhana.  Without the ego-mind, it cannot be practiced. Therefore, at the end of the sadhana or the path, the ultimate question still remains to be tackled. In all other practices, except Self-enquiry, ego takes different and subtler forms at the different stage of the practice but is itself never destroyed. 

Sri  Bhagwan often taught that the attempt to destroy the ego or the mind through practice other than the practice of the Atma-Vichara is akin to the thief pretending to be a policeman to catch the thief, that is, verily himself.


Sri Bhagwan has said that Great Investigation is launched by the ego-mind to start with. But the real Vichara begins when one is already off the mental movement, of the thought waves. THEREFORE, THE VICHARA IS ESSENTIALLY NOT INTELLECTUAL, BUT AN INNER QUEST FOR THE ATMA-SWARUPA.

Regards,
   Anil




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1716 on: May 19, 2012, 05:35:33 PM »
Dear anil,

Sri Bhagavan describes what is true renunciation in Verse 26 of U.N. 'Seek the nature of ego and find out and this is true
inner renunciation.

Again Sri Bhagavan says: If ego sprouts everything sprouts, all passions, miseries, pains and irritations. If ego is not there
every thing is not there,  (in the same verse)

Finally He says in the concluding verse: The destruction of the ego's form (apparent form) is liberation.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1717 on: May 19, 2012, 07:50:53 PM »
Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Is there anyone not aware of the Self? They would not even like to hear it (the Self),
whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth,
religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. Wandering hither and thither you must return to the Self only. Then, why not abide in the Self even here and now?

(Talks 145)



D.: What does Sri Bhagavan think of Pravritti and nivritti margas?
M.: Yes. Both are mentioned. What of that?
D.: Which is the better of the two?
M.: If you see the Self - pure and simple - it is nivritti; if you see the Self with the world, it is pravritti. In other words, inward turned
      mind (antarmukhi manas) is nivritti; outward-going mind (bahirmukhi manas) is pravritti. Anyway, there is nothing apart from the   
      Self. Both are the same.

(Talks 274)



Let one practise enquiry so long as separateness is perceived. If once realisation arises there is no further need for enquiry. The question will also not arise. Can awareness ever think of questioning who is aware? Awareness remains pure and simple.

(Talks 454)

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1718 on: May 20, 2012, 07:26:35 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. Sri Muruganar sings:

“Heart is the consciousness that exists as mere being. It does not rise as ‘I’ and go out to know the sense objects, the non-Self. To the consciousness that remains still without objectifying, the truth of itself shines spontaneously. Therefore, to hold onto that Heart, which is consciousness, as the target, and to remain firmly established in it, without movement, is the shining of pure being.”

                                V. 435, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman


Sri Muruganar comments that THAT which is said to be Heart is Atma-Swarupa.. The implication is that Atmanishtha, or the abidance in and as the Self, alone is ATMA-JNANA.

Since Consciousness is not separate from the Being, It becomes aware of its own Existence. Chit becomes aware of the Sat because the two are not separate from each other.   


Regards,
   Anil


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1719 on: May 20, 2012, 09:24:27 AM »
Dear i,

yes, Heart is Atma, Heart is That, Heart is Self, Heart is Consciousness, Awareness, and reposing into the source, ie. heart alone is true meditation, holding on to the source where 'i' originates, being as That, from which, all world is seen, with the emergence of the seer 'i' ceaselessly, is the true and direct way. This should be easy, yet difficult only because of our pre dispositions, forgetfulness. Being as That is the ultimate medicine for all problems of world, body, and mind. The more and more we repose, the more that we are steady in Swarupa Nishta, all impediments clear off themselves. Some where in Ramana Literature i have read that the True meaning of Dhira that Dhi means to See (same Dhi as in Gayatri Mantra), and Ra is Heart, So the Dhira is one who looks within.

Bhagavan says in Upadesa Saaram 26:

आत्मसंस्थितिःस्वात्मदर्शनं ।
आत्मनिर्द्वयादात्मनिष्ठता ॥


ätma-saàsthitiù svätma-darçanamätma-nirdvayäd ätma-niñöhatä

Being the Self is knowing the Self, because thereis only one Self, and not two. This Being and knowing the Self is abiding in the Reality.

The same imperative is given in the Maharshi’s Forty Verses on Reality. “Other than turning the mind within, and lodging it in the Self, how is it possible to think of the Self with the mind?”

And elsewhere, “Can knowledge be other than Being?Being is the core, the Heart. How then is the Supreme Beingto be contemplated and glorified? Only by remaining the PureSelf ....”

Therefore, it is futile to attempt to understand the Self byreasoning or intellectual arguments. Thought is an obstacleto ‘Self-Realization’, which in the end can be attained onlywhen the ego has been destroyed and all conceptualising abandoned.

(DM Sastri)

Prostrations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1720 on: May 20, 2012, 09:57:44 AM »
Born of form, rooted in forms,
Living on forms, ever changing its forms,
Itself formless, flitting when questioned
Such is the ego-ghost.

                   V. 27, Sat-Darshanam

Dear Sri Nagaraj,


Quote
“Thought is an obstacleto ‘Self-Realization’, which in the end can be attained onlywhen the ego has been destroyed and all conceptualising abandoned.”


Ji. Yes. Ego is the thief, the culprit which is at present denying us the Bliss of the Atma-Swarupa. King Sri Janak referring to the ego exclaims , “Now I have discovered the thiefwho has been ruining me all along. He will be dealt with summarily.
Therefore, the ego is not our true Swarupa : Ego is not the true ‘I’, the Self.. Then, WHO AM I?

Body and its functions are thoughts, they are not ‘I’. Going deeper, mind and its functions are thoughts, they cannot be ‘I’. These thoughts of body and its functions as well as mind and its functions are spontaneous, superficial and analytical. They operate in intellect. WHO IS AWARE OF THEM ?

The existence of thoughts, their clear conceptions and their operations become evident to the individual. Sri Bhagwan says that the individuality of the person is operative as the perceiver of the existence of thoughts and of their sequence. This individuality is the ego which is known as ‘I’. Sri Bhagwan says that intellect is only the sheath of ‘I’ and not the ‘I’ itself.
Now, question arises, “Who is this ‘I’ ? Wherefrom does it come?” It was not there in the sleep. SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH  ITS RISE, OUR SLLEP CHANGES TO DREAM OR WAKFULNESS.WHO AM I NOW IN THE WAKEFUL STATE ? Did I originate from the sleep? If that is the case this ‘I’ is covered up with ignorance and therefore cannot be the Self, or the true ‘I’ or the Atma-Swarupa, as affirmed by the Scriptures and the Sages. Obviously ‘I’ am beyond the sleep. Am ‘I’ not ? Obviously my Atam-Swarupa

Therefore, it follows that ‘I’ must be here and now as also in sleep and dreams, THOUGH WITHOUT THE QUALITIES OF SUCH STATES.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1721 on: May 20, 2012, 10:33:18 AM »
Dear anil,

Yes. Only ahanthai - ego, grabs a name and a form and does it gory dance with passions like lust, anger, greed and jealousy.
In the egoless state, there is no name and form and no passions. All is Bliss only.

Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1722 on: May 20, 2012, 04:29:53 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Self is realised with the dead mind or the Pure Mind, i.e. mind devoid of thoughts, which is verily of the Nature of the Self.
Vichara, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, is certainly not intellectual, but it is an inner quest. Sri Bhagwan says that holding the mind, rejecting the thoughts, etc. may be a stepping stone, BUT REALLY VICHARA BEGINS WHEN ONE CLINGS TO ONE’S SELF AND IS ALREADY OFF THE MENTAL MOVEMENT OR MENTATION OR THE THOUGHT WAVES. 

SRI SADHU OM’S INSIGHT:

 When our power of attention is directed to any second or third persons object, it is mind or the intellect. But in Vichara, that power of attention is now directed towards the first person only. Sri Om says that although we formally refer to it as ‘directed’, in truth it is not of the nature of a ‘doing’ (kriya-rupam) in the form of directing or being directed; it is of the nature of ‘being’ or ‘existing’ (sat-rupam). Because the second and third persons (including thoughts) are alien or external to us, our attention paid to them was of the nature of a ‘doing’. But this very attention, when fixed on the non-alien first person feeling, ‘I’, loses the nature of ‘paying’ and remains in the form of ‘being’, and therefore it is of the nature of non-doing or inaction. SO LONG AS OUR POWER OF ATTENTION WAS DWELLING UPON SECOND AND THIRD PERSONS, IT WAS CALLED THE ‘MIND’ OR THE ‘INTELLECT’, AND ITS ATTENDING WAS CALLED A DOING OR AN ACTION. ONLY THAT WHICH IS DONE BY THE MIND IS AN ACTION. But on the other hand, as soon as the attention is fixed on the first person (or the Self), it loses its MEAN names such as the mind, intellect or the ego sense. Moreover, that attention is no longer even an action, but INACTION OR THE STATE OF ‘BEING STILL’. AND THEREFORE, THE MIND THAT ATTENDS TO THE SELF IS NO MORE THE MIND; IT IS THE CONSCIOUSNESS ASPECT OF SELF! Likewise, so long as it attends to the second and third persons (the world), it is not the consciousness aspect of Self, it is what we know as mind at present, the reflected form of consciousness. Hence, since Self-attention is not a doing, it is not an action. That is, Self alone realises the self; the ego does not.
                                                               Source: The Path of Sri Ramana, Sri Sadhu Om

Dear sir, ‘Who am I?’ is not a question, but simply a contrivance to win back the lost Self-attention. This regaining of Self-attention is ACTUALLY BEING THE SELF.
SUCH ‘BEING’ (REMAINING OR ABIDING AS THE SELF) ALONE IS THE CORRECT SADHANA OF ATMA-VICHARA, AS TAUGHT BY BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA. SADHANA IS NOT DOING BUT BEING.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1723 on: May 20, 2012, 06:09:23 PM »
Dear Anil,

I agree with you. When the mind is no longer there, what remains is attention towards the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1724 on: May 21, 2012, 07:55:12 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan says that the emergence and disappearance of the world are like the spider producing a gossamer web and then withdrawing it. The spiderhere underlies all the three states—waking, dreaming, and sleep; such a spider in us is the Self.

The seer is drik and the scene is drisya. There must be a unity underlying these two, which Sri Bhagwan says, arises as the ego. The ego is of the nature of intelligence, insentient object is only the negation of intelligence. Therefore, the underlying essence is akin to the subject and not the object.
CLUE:
If the drik is sought, until all drisya disappears, the drik will become subtler and subtler until THE ABSOLUTE DRIK ALONE SURVIVES.

Elimination of drisya means only the elimination of separate identities of the subject and the object. The object is unreal and all drisya including the ego is the object. Now Sri Bhagwan says that eliminating the unreal, the Reality alone remains. What is meant by eliminating the unreal? When a rope is mistaken for a snake, it is enough only to remove the erroneous perception of the snake for the truth of the rope to be revealed. How can truth dawn without such elimination of the catastrophic perception?
Sri Bhagwan says that the disappearance of the objective world can be effected only by the elimination of the mind as we know it. Mind alone is the relative subject which creates the subject and the object and of all dualistic ideas. IT ALONE IS THE CAUSE OF THE WRONG NOTION OF A LIMITED SELF AND THE MISERY CONSEQUENT ON SUCH ERRONEOUS IDEA. And mind is there because of the absence of enquiry only.


Thank you,
  Anil