Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 283461 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1695 on: May 12, 2012, 12:13:44 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

All seeing involves dualtiy. There is seer, seen and seeing object. But Self enquiry is only 'see' the Self within. Here
'seeing' is itself not a correct word. We investigate ourselves and experience the Self within.

In this experience, there is only One. No time, No space. No I, He or She or You. Nothing excepting the Self.

Arunachala Siva.         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1696 on: May 12, 2012, 01:50:55 PM »
Quote  from Sri Subramanian Sir:

“All seeing involves dualtiy. There is seer, seen and seeing object. But Self enquiry is only 'see' the Self within. Here
'seeing' is itself not a correct word. We investigate ourselves and experience the Self within.

In this experience, there is only One. No time, No space. No I, He or She or You. Nothing excepting the Self.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. We are so accustomed to relative existence and duality that we use the word ‘seeing’ even for the Self. Mind is reluctant to understand that there is no seeing the Self, and ‘seeing the Self’ only means ‘being the Self’ in WHOM there is absolutely no other. King Sri Janak exclaims “…..nirvikalpo sthitir  mam or there is nothing other than Me !”

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
 Anil     


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1697 on: May 13, 2012, 08:46:59 AM »
If during the quest of one’s own Self the mind turns outwards, due to attachment to sense objects, the seeker should turn it inwards again by merging the world in the Self.
                                       V. 478, Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad

“Just as waves, foam, etc. are only the ocean, and as the dream-world is only the seer of the dream, and nothing else, so the whole world is only Myself and nothing else.” This view is the merging of the world in the Self.
                                       V. 479, Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad

Dear Devotees,

If ‘Atman’ is the aim, at least during the stage of sadhana, one must regard the whole world as a mere dream. Only after Realisation one realises that the Self Itself is the whole world. Just as the dream-world is nothing but the seer of the dream, so also, the whole world that we see in the waking stage is nothing but the Self, i.e. Myself.

Dear devotees, it is true that Grace is the beginning, middle and the end. But that does not mean that we should do nothing and simply await for Grace to enable us to become Self-aware. Practice is necessary.

WE ARE THE SELF. So, what and why should we practice ? Practice is not for any fresh gain. Practice means removal of predispositions or vasanas. PRACTICE IS TO KILL THOSE VERY PREDISPOSITIONS WHICH OBSTRUCT OUR MEDITATION OR ENQUIRY INTO THE SELF.   

Yes, enquiry into the Self is the practice to do away for once and all with the predispositions or the vasanas. Of course, Peace will be gradual, for, mind will attain stillness gradually. Enquiry itself gives knowledge that we are not the body, nor the mind, nor the senses etc. and this makes the inherence in the Self easy. And the inherence makes the effort gradually effortless. Then we understand that the purpose of the effort is only to get rid of all efforts. When all samskaras or the predispositions come to an end, inherence in the Self is effortless.
We are afraid that samskaras or predispositions or the vasanas are infinite and eternal, from the time immemorial. Are we not? But then Sri Bhagwan says that thinking thus itself is a samskara. Sri Bhagwan says that all we need do is to give up this idea that we have samskaras or predispositions from the beginningless time and all samskaras will disappear at once, all of them being mere ideas.

Thank you,
  Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1698 on: May 13, 2012, 02:55:04 PM »
That which is worth taking up is the Self-enquiry that reveals Jana; that which is worth enjoying is the grandeur of the Self; that which is worth renouncing is the ego-mind; that in which it is worth taking refuse, to eliminate sorrow completely, is one’s own source, the Heart.
                                                    V. 500, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1699 on: May 14, 2012, 08:01:14 AM »
The seer ‘I’ [aham] is false. Things that are seen by it as ‘this’ [idam] are also false. Similarly, the consciousness that remains as the instrument for the seer to see the objects is also completely false. In addition to these triputis, the mulaprakriti, which causes their appearance, is false as well. Only the subtle space of jnana, whose form is consciousness, is true.
                                                                V. 1017, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

Dear Devotees,

Mulaprakriti is analogous to Maya which is said to be the cause and effect of the world creation. It is also the latent state of the world during the pralaya or the cosmic dissolution. Although it appears within Brahman, the Supreme Consciousness, it is ultimately unreal. Sri Muruganar says that by ‘consciousness that remains as the instrument for the seer to see the objects is also false’ in the above cited Verse is meant the attributed or the objective consciousness.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that because we see things in the waking stage, we stand as the seer. In sleep there is no world, there is no seer. We know that we did not disappear in the sleep. We were . This means that that we, in truth, stand apart from the seer and the object seen or the subject and the object. Sri Bhagwan says that now, in the waking state, we say that we do not know the Self, it is the seer who speaks. It is only after we have objectified ourselves and see the world as external to ourselves. But this is the relative knowledge.

I AM THE SELF. But there is the world now and the seer. There was no world and no seer in sleep. That means when I woke up, I decided myself as the seer and the seen as the object.
SRI BHAGWAN SAYS THAT IT FOLLOWS THAT IN THE SHORT INTERVAL OF DEEP SLEEP AND WAKING THE DIVISION TAKES PLACE AND I IDENTIFY MYSELF WITH THE SEER EVEN AT THE VERY SOURCE OF DIVISION. Here it is that we must stay in transcendence which means getting over the three states.
“SAT IS SEEN AS CIT.”
Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan has also given a very apt analogy to make us understand. Imagine a picture in which a king witnesses a drama. The picture contains both subject and object. They cannot remain independent of each other. Both appear and disappear together.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREEN? WHERE IS THE SCEREN? IS IT TO BE FORMED FROM THE PICTURES?

Thank you,
  Anil
   
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1700 on: May 15, 2012, 07:06:48 AM »
Devotee: As we hold two different opinions, we are enquiring in order to find out what Bhagwan would like best.
Sri Bhagwan : “Oh, I see. You want to know what Bhagwan would like best! What Bhagwan likes best is to remain silent without doing anything. If people with different opinions give up their mouna (silence) which is embodiment of love, and come to me and say , ‘We will do this’ and ‘We will do that’, and enquire of me what I like better of the two, what can I say ? If you agree upon a course of action and then ask me for my opinion, I would then say it is all right. But when you are of two opinions, why do you come to me and ask me which I like the better? WHAT I LIKE IS, TO KNOW WHO I AM AND TO REMAIN AS I AM WITH KNOWLEDGE THAT WHAT IS TO HAPPEN WILL HAPPEN AND WHAT IS NOT TO HAPPEN WILL NOT HAPPEN. Is that not right? Do you now understand what Bhagwan likes best?” So saying Bhagwan assumed silence.
                                                    16th February, 1949, Letters from Sri Ramanasramam

Dear devotees, there is no ambiguity whatever with regard to Sri Bhagwan’s Preference! “TO MERELY BE WITH KONWLEDGE THAT WHAT IS TO HAPPEN WILL HAPPEN AND WHAT IS NOT TO HAPPEN WILL NOT HAPPEN” is Sri Bhagwan’s PREFERENCE.

Thank you,
   Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1701 on: May 16, 2012, 07:30:45 AM »
Miss Merston, an English lady visitor: I have read Who am I? While inquiring who the ‘I’ is, I cannot hold it for any length of time. Secondly, I have no interest in the environment, but yet I have hopes that I shall find some interest in life.
Sri Bhagwan : If there are no interests it is good. (The interpreter points out that the questioner hopes to find some interest in life).
Sri Bhagwan continues: That means there are those vasanas. A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, pains, etc. But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the waking world.   

Dear Devotees,

Why do we lose interest in the dream world as soon as we wake up ? Because when we wake up, we realise that the dream world is only a part of ourselves, and not different from us, and, therefore, ceases to interest us. So also the present world, says Sri Bhagwan, ceases to interest us IF WE AWAKE FROM THIS WAKING DREAM (World) AND REALISE THAT IT IS, IN TRUTH, PART OF OUR SELF, AND NOT AN OBJECTIVE REALITY.
Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan teaches that because we think that we are apart from the world and objects around us, we desire this and that and hope to find interest in them. But if we understand that the thing desired is only a thought-form we no longer desire it. Similarly, if we understand that the whole world, objects and things are only thought- forms, we no longer hope to find interest in them.

Sri Bhagwan says that all things are like bubbles on water. WE ARE THE WATER AND THE OBJECTS ARE THE BUBBLES. THEY CANNOT EXIST APART FROM THE WATER, BUT THEY ARE NOT QUITE THE SAME AS THE WATER.

Thank you,
   Anil   



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1702 on: May 16, 2012, 07:20:17 PM »
Sri Bhagwasn is said to have once remarked:

DO NOT MEDITATE—BE!
DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE—BE!
DO NOT THINK ABOUT BEING—YOU ARE!

Thank you,
  Anil

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1703 on: May 16, 2012, 07:26:14 PM »
Miss Merston, an English lady visitor: I have read Who am I? While inquiring who the ‘I’ is, I cannot hold it for any length of time. Secondly, I have no interest in the environment, but yet I have hopes that I shall find some interest in life.
Sri Bhagwan : If there are no interests it is good. (The interpreter points out that the questioner hopes to find some interest in life).
Sri Bhagwan continues: That means there are those vasanas. A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, pains, etc. But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the waking world.   

Dear i,

This, revelation, when Bhagavan says, waking dream, i would like to relate this, to the example of small kids which play with small utensils as though they cook food, make tea and then serve it to others, with great fervor and enjoyment, even though there are no real ingredients at all! But, the same kid as it grew up, ceased to do the same, ie. stopped playing with those dummy cooking utrensils, as it realises the unreality of it all! Then it began to play with more 'real-er' games such as education, career, ecomomics, relationships and so on and the kid, now fully grown up adult is playing this game with great relish just like how it played with those dummy utensils, as a kid.

Now, what is to realise waking state as dream is just this, the reality of all the world as it is - one begins to see the futility of all that he had been doing with great fervor; he sees, the futility of it, just like how the kid stopped playing with those dummy utensils without any real ingredients, so does a human realise the truth about the world, and begins to look within. The world no more interests him, as he begins to see the unreality of what is seen, and, is only interested in knowing what is real, ie. within.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1704 on: May 17, 2012, 08:34:54 AM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
“Now, what is to realise waking state as dream is just this, the reality of all the world as it is - one begins to see the futility of all that he had been doing with great fervor; he sees, the futility of it, just like how the kid stopped playing with those dummy utensils without any real ingredients, so does a human realise the truth about the world, and begins to look within. The world no more interests him, as he begins to see the unreality of what is seen, and, is only interested in knowing what is real, ie. within.”

Prostrations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. Yours is always a beautiful discernment. We, at long last, realise the futility of it all, just like the kids who gradually also realise and stop playing with the dummy utensils without real ingredients. The games that we, the adults, play, begin to appear unreal, without real ingredients, as you said so beautifully. His Grace enables one to become aware that the REAL INGREDIENT is within and not outside of oneself. Realising that everything in the relative and phenomenal world is transitory, changing and therefore unreal, he seeks to hold something permanent, unchanging and which is the REAL INGREDIENT. Where can it be sought and found? THE GURU, THE OUTER AS WELL AS THE INNER, THEN POINTS OUT:
“INWARD, INWARD, IS THE PATH.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil

Note: I am not able to attend the Forum regularly enough due to my present predicament. However. I hope to attend it off and on so that I do not lose the thread of the discussion and so that I am able to contribute whenever and whatever possible. Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1705 on: May 17, 2012, 10:47:01 AM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagwan has taught that the ego-‘I’ and the world, and for that matter, all systems of forms, rise together. So, ‘I’ appears to exist in relation to a ‘this’ only (aham—idam). Sri Bhagwan says that ‘I’ and ‘this’ appear together now. But ‘this’ is contained in the ‘I’ and they are not apart. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan teaches that ‘this’ has to merge into and become one with ‘I’.  The ’I’ that remains over is the true ‘I’.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1706 on: May 17, 2012, 01:33:15 PM »
Dear i,

what you have observed is very true. Bhagavan has quoted at several instances about how the world is not without 'i' only when the seer exists, the seen also exists. His classic question for contemplation is really wonderful, where was all the world during sushupti  (deep sleep) ? It is really very thought provoking revelation every time. But, we never are scared of sleeping, ie. getting lost to sleep, everyday, we do not feel scarfed to sleep at all, and, even when we are awake, we have an inherent desire to sleep further, moreover, even though, it is not our direct perception, we still are able to say, i slept well.

The scriptures have at various instances referred to the deep sleep as the closest aid to grasp the nirvikalpa sahaj samadhi, the saints wonderfully expressed as Jagrath Sushupti, Thungamal Thunguvadu (Waking sleep)

Even though we may sleep without getting scared of losing ourselves to oblivion, somewhere, unconsciously, one 'knows' that one can never lose oneself to oblivion, hence, with this light, one enjoys deep sleep.

Bhagavan once said to Muruganar, when some discussion was going on about death, where some were talking about how every people in the world, even though they see so many deaths, still, they are not shaken by the limitedness of this body and the world, what an ignorance it is, to which Bhagavan expressed that this does not occur due to ignorance, but only due to pure knowledge, that each one does not get shaken even after seeing so many deaths. Somewhere, from within, a light of knowledge reveals its own immortality.

So, it goes to reveal to ourselves, how this knowledge is present as glaring effulgence and continuously, like thousand suns, still, it is only due to sheer forgetfulness that this is being missed out.

In is interesting to note here, the expressions of Jnaneshwar, who says, that the Self forgets itself completely only to relish the joy of realising/knowing Thyself again. But can this forgetfulness really be called a forgetfulness? It is like a mother playing Hide and Seek with her small child by closing her face by her palms.

Therefore, truly speaking, even ignorance, as well, occurs only out of the light of Self itself, like, if the clouds hide the sun, does it mean that the Sun has disappeared? The joy of Sun is only enhanced when there is darkness, and the joy of darkness is only enhanced when there is sun. one does not exist without the other. It is in the presence of THAT, that, even these leelas of dualities is able to occur, which itself is beyond these dualities. Duality exists to realise Advaita, and Advaita exists to realise Duality.Similarly, Jnaneshwar goes on to express, that ignorance exists only when knowledge exists, and knowledge too, exists only in relation to ignorance.

In such a pure knowledge, Jnaneshwar expresses in ecstatic outpouring that, The same Self became 2 in order to realise its Oneness, the same self(nose) became a flower in order to smell the fragrance. The Guru became Shishya in order to reveal the Self, and the same Self Became a mirror in order to see itself.

What a Joy, is this Leela of Self. Gratitude.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1707 on: May 17, 2012, 01:46:49 PM »
Dear Anil, Nagaraj,

Yes. All things emanate from the Self. And they get absolved in the Self.  The Self is Heart. Sri Bhagavan says this in Verse 2 of
Pancharatnam.

Once a Sri Vaishnavite came to Sri Bhagavan and said: I am suffering so much in life. This maya is playing havoc with me.
Sri Bhagavan gazed at him for some time and then said: What do you call for this Maya in your siddhantam?  The Vaishnavite
replied: Mother, ThAyAr.

Sri Bhagavan said: Will any mother give problems to her son? Will ThAyAr ever see the son to suffer? It is the ego that causes
your suffering. See where this suffering goes in your deep sleep?

Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1708 on: May 18, 2012, 08:39:21 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much. I just went through the raging debate going on with regard to the fundamental question about the mind and wondered whether this is the appropriate way for the devotees of Sri Bhagwan.  And, therefore, I decided to post my humble response in the available time that I have managed.

Dear sirs, I ask of both of you, “Can we ever stamp with our foot on our own shadows cast by ourselves?” Sri Chadwick is said to have once symbolically tried.
All our thoughts, arguments, desires, etc. are part and parcel of the mind. Sri Bhagwan says that the mind relishes all these and is simply fattened. It is simply impossible to kill or control the mind by means of the mind. When devotees asked from Sri Bhagwan as to how mind should be controlled, Sri Bhagwan’s Response was, “Show me the mind and then you will know what to do”.
Sri Bhagwan has taught that the only way to tackle the mind is to find its source and hold on to it.

WE MUST LEARN:
“You are not the mind. The mind springs up and sinks down. It is impermanent, transitory, whereas you are eternal. There is nothing but the Self. To inhere in the Self is the thing. NEVER MIND THE MIND. IF ITS SOURCE IS SOUGHT, IT WILL VANISH LEAVING THE SELF UNAFFECTED.”
                                                            Talk—97

Regards,
  Anil       

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1709 on: May 18, 2012, 10:01:05 AM »
Dear i,

It is said, pure mind is itself the Self and when the mind is pure, it simply reflects itself ie. Self. here, this pure mind, when it expresses, expresses only what it sees, of itself. But, it is asked, how can one declare ones mind has become pure? what is the proof that ones mind is pure, unfortunately, cannot be proved, for only oneself knows. There is no way, it could be proved that one is not the mind, but it is only that from which is reflected, or emerges is only mind.

The Self becomes mind in order to see itself. There is no mind separate of the Self. Pure mind itself is the Self.

When every thing is seen only through mind, nothing can be seen really, which is why, Lord Krishna symbolically bestows divine eye to Arjuna to see His (Self's) Vishwaroopam.

This divine eye, is ones own Self, ones own Anubhuti, Self Effulgence. That, one is not the mind, but, truly the Self, can never be proved/shown to anybody other than ourselves alone.

Unfortunately, one can never trace/find the mind, because, mind is one Self truly, and, when it is said to be pure mind, (wisdom), then one realises that Mind cannot be found, for, mind which is trying to trace, is tracing itself, which is never possible. It is like Eye trying to see itself, can it be ever possible?

But, if this is said/discerned, what is being observed is that such a anubuti, discernment is delusion, for which one can 'just be' or there is no answer to this, for the Self cannot be proved to itself, The Self cannot be found, It is Self illuminating, and it is no an object of perception.

All these too, are only illusions, reposing as Self is alone is the goal, all else is vritti. Games of Jnana Vritti, Leela.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan