Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755952 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1680 on: May 07, 2012, 03:16:32 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. So, meditation with effort is the sadhana, and when the meditation is effortless, free from thoughts, it is our True Nature. Sri Bhagwan says that the Vichara with effort is the Sadhana, and when it is effortless, it is the Goal.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1681 on: May 07, 2012, 05:48:45 PM »
Dear Anil, 

Once Muruganar who had by that attained Jnana Bodham (the third eye opened) was staying in Tiruvannamalai with some
hosts. This was many years after Sri Bhagavan's Mahanirvana. Once a Bengali Jnani Sri Ananda Mayi Amma had come to the Asramam
with her devotees and prayed at Sri Bhagavan's Samadhi.  At that time construction of the Samadhi Hall was going on.

Many friends of Muruganar came and asked him whether he can be taken to see Sri Ananda Mayi Ma. Muruganar said
after some hesitation: See years back, I had seen that Jnana Suryan. After seeing Him, my two eyes have become blind.
Now what else can I see? Whom else can I see?


Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1682 on: May 08, 2012, 07:58:09 AM »
Devotee: You said that the Atman is ‘immutable’, Self-effulgent, etc. But if you speak at the same time of the incessant flash of I-consciousness, of this ‘Aham sphurti’, does that not imply movement, which cannot be complete realisation, in which there is no movement.?
Sri Bhagwan : What do you mean by complete realisation? Does it mean becoming a stone, an inert mass ? The aham vritti is different from Aham Sphurti. The former is the activity of the ego, and is bound to lose itself and make way for the latter, which is an eternal expression of the Self. In Vedantic parlance this Aham Sphurti is called Vritti Jnana. REALISATION OR JANA IS ALWAYS A VRITTI. THERE IS A DISTINCTION BETWEEN VRITTI JNANA OR REALISATIO AND SWARUPA THE REAL. SWARUPA IS JNANA ITSELF, IT IS CONSCIOUSNESS.
                                                                              Sat –Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi


Dear Devotees,

Therefore, we must understand that there is a distinction between Realisation and Swarupa the Real. Swarupa is Sat-Chit or Existence-Consciousness and is therefore Jnana Itself. Swarupa is omnipresent and is always there Self-attained. But when we realise the Swarupa the Real, Realisation is called Vritti Jnana. So, Realisation, in truth, is a vritti. Sri Bhagwan says that it is only with reference to our present relative existence that we talk of Realisation or Jnana.

It remains settled, therefore, once and for all, that when we talk of Jnana, we always mean Realisation which is the Vritti Jnana and not the Swarupa Jnana Itself. For, Swarupa Itself is Jnana or Consciousness or Knowledge, ALWAYS SELF-ATTAINED.

Thank you,
  Anil

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1683 on: May 08, 2012, 08:29:11 AM »
Dear i,

This is a very contemplative post, and, some sorts of, perhaps, an eye opener!?

i am slightly in need of more elaboration, Bhagavan says, Jnana is always Vritt, and he also says there is distinction between Vritti Jnana and Swarupa Jnana. i mean, why a need even to make any distinction at all? what has Bhagavan reallly conveyed here? does He convey simply only that jnana is not inert some stone-like by making such a distinction? Is that all? or, is there some other subtle discernment that i am missing?

Does it simply try to convey that jnana is always for the mind and not the swarupa itself, is it why, Bhagavan says Jana is vritti? After all whose is, this Jnana Vritti? and really, for whom?

Sometimes, even the statements of Bhagavan also seems to me like Visishtadvaita, (i am not getting stuck in these theories, but, there is a need for discernment)

Does he simply say Jnana Vritti as the waves in an ocean (Swarupa)?

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 09:04:28 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1684 on: May 08, 2012, 09:24:20 AM »
Dear i,

the same idea is expressed in Guru Vacchaka Kovai 941

Wholeness and Movement

With movement must come separateness.
Brahman, Pure Being, the state transcendent,
Is perfect stillness, and to call it
Wholeness-movement is like calling
A river in the ocean lost
a river still

[Vritti or movement gives rise to form an hence to a sense of separateness, Brahmaakaaravritti or wholeness-movement is thus a movement in, not of Brahman]

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1685 on: May 08, 2012, 10:07:13 AM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. It is, in my view also, very important for earnest seekers to understand. Sri Bhagwan says that the Swarupa is Sat-Chit. Swarupa is Jnana Itself. It is omnipresent and all-pervading. It is always there , as It ever is, AND IS SELF-ATTAINED.
Now, Sri Bhagwan says that with vritti one sees the Knowledge. But vritti is a mode of mind, as we all are aware. What we need to discern at this stage is this that the experience is a vritti, a mode of the mind (here by mind should be understood thePure Mind). Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says that Realisation of the SAME is called vritti Jnana which is not the same as the Jnana, or the Swarupa the Real Itself. Yes, as I understand it, REALISATION CULMINATES AS SWARUPA, ONE’S OWN SELF, FREE FROM VRITTI, OR TRHE MODE OF THE MIND. Thus we also understand that the Pure Mind or the Sattvic Mind is verily the ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS. So, we must not confound the Realisation or the vritti Jnana with the Knowledge Itself. This subtle distinction exists between Realisation and the Swarupa the Real Itself.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, the above is also the reason why I said that the Mother or Nandishwara looking at Shiva in Shiva Temples depicts the State of Realisation.

Thank you so much.
Regards,
  Anil   

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1686 on: May 08, 2012, 10:18:46 AM »
Dear i,

thank you, yes, the realisation is knowledge, and, therefore vritti, and, is the mode of the mind. yes, i discern, that, such realisation of mind, has to/will culminates as Swarupa jnana or better said Swarupa Jyothi.

Now taking the example of Nandishwara or the Mother looking at Parameshwara, ie. after the vritti jnana, does one, engage in looking at Jnana (Shiva)? because, one realises very well, now, the truth of this vritti jnana itself; thereafter, where is one, anymore to do anything? his very tool, by which he realised the Vritti Jnana, itself is zeroed, then and there! What is to see Swarupa from here, for seeing would only be through this Vritti Jnana only.

How does the Vritti jnana culminate as Swarupa itself? What more need be done after Vritti jnana? Surrendering to this vritti jnana, implies knowing, pure knowledge - Vritti Jnana. Therefore, Vritti Jnana can be said as surrender. As this Vritti Jnana itself is of no use anymore, together with its tool, mind!

Thank you, again, grateful for a wonderful satsangam, with one and all.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 10:26:43 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1687 on: May 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM »
Dear i,

The Brahmakara-Vritti

The brahmakara-vritti is the highest expansion of the mind into the Infinite Nature of the Absolute, where the mind is withdrawn from the perception of plurality and duality and is fixed in the perception of the Infinite. It is the supreme state of the mind, the stoppage of all its modifications, where it takes the form of unlimited existence, spaceless and timeless, where nothing exists besides the limitless expanse of Consciousness. It is not a mere feeling of a state of Infinity but a positive immediateness where the thinking subject expands into the Infinite. There is a vanishing of individuality altogether, and there is the cognition of the Essence. It is the spiritual eye, the intuitional vision, obtained through the repeated practice of Absolute-Affirmation. It is the last vritti or psychosis, whose object is its own infinite form, which is not supported by anything else, which has nothing external, which rests solely on the power of its potential and actual contents. Even this experience is to be transcended by the Absolute-Experience which is the Goal of even the brahmakara-vritti, where the vritti destroys itself by itself on account of the exhaustion of its contents through experience, and exists in Identity with the Absolute. Brahma-samstho-amritatvameti:

    “He, who is established in Brahman, attains Immortality.” —Chh. Up., II. 23.

The Realisation of the Absolute

A Treatise on the Vedanta Philosophy and Its Methodology
by Swami Krishnananda



Bhagavan says -

You see, the one who eliminates all the 'not I' cannot eliminate the 'I' - itself.

my note: the discernment, the shuddha Bodham, pure knowledge, here, therefore eliminates itself (vritti jnana) as well, and yet remains, perhaps, this is the final pure Mounam, one is, just is. Summa Iruthal - He also eliminates even the knowledge of His Mounam or Summa Iruthal as well



You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1688 on: May 08, 2012, 04:30:40 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. This is a beautiful post with regard to ‘brahmakara vritti’. Even the word vritti is used for want of a more appropriate word. For, Sri Bhagwan says that it resembles something like ‘an ocean like river’. So, Sri Bhagwan says that when one talks of brahmakara vritti for the mind, it is akin to saying like samudrakara nadi, about the river which has merged in the ocean.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, Sri Bhagwan has said that even to speak of brahmakara vritti is not accurate. Can we call a river that has merged in the ocean still a river and call it a samudrakara river ? Therefore, calling the final stage in spiritual growth as having brahmakara vritti resembles something like that.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1689 on: May 09, 2012, 07:12:04 AM »
Dear Devotees,

“I think, therefore, I exist”, said Descartes.
But Truth lies other way round. Sri Bhahwan has taught that I must exist in order that I may think. I may think this thought, that thought, or many other thoughts. Thoughts that I think keep on changing, but not ‘I’. My moods, predicament, and states change but not ‘I’. Sri Bhagwan says, “Let go the passing thoughts and hold on to the unchanging Self.” Therefore, thoughts alone form our bondage.

If thoughts are given up, there is release. So, bondage is not something which is external. Bondage lies within, and hence, no external remedy need be sought for release.
IT IS WITHIN OUR COMPETENCE THEREFORE TO THINK AND THUS TO GET BOUND.
IT IS WITHIN OUR COMPETENCE TO CEASE THINKING AND THUS BE FREE AS WELL.
WATCHWORD:
CEASE THINKING WITHIN.
CEASE SEEKING OUTSIDE.
BE STILL AND JUST BE. I AM THAT I AM.

Thank you,
   Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1690 on: May 10, 2012, 08:45:01 AM »
Devotee : Is sorrow a thought ?
Sri Bhagwan : All thoughts are sorrowful.
Devotee : Even pleasurable thoughts must be sorrowful.
Sri Bhagwan : Yes, because thoughts take one’s  attention away from the Self, which is undiluted happiness.

Dear Devotees,

We do not have thoughts in sleep and we are at peace with ourselves. Thoughts then do not assail us. In the waking state ‘I’-thought rises and with it rise myriad of thoughts, all centred on and associated with the pivotal ‘I’-thought.
So, we cannot make efforts in sleep, to do away with thoughts and be still, because awareness is necessary for mind control. BECAUSE, LIBERATION HAS TO BE GAINED IN FULL AWARENESS.

Dear devotees, the Reality Itself is only the Pure Awareness. THERE IS NOTHING BUT AWARENESS. To know anything, there must be Knowledge or Awareness.
SRI Bhagwan says, “SUBJECTIVE KNOWLEDGE, THAT IS, KNOWLEDGE KNOWING ITSELF IS JNANA.

We can understand that Awareness is the light which links the seer to the seen. I (the subject) am there. An article I am looking for is there. But there is the pitch darkness. Can I find the article without the physical light, although the subject and object both are present. The light has to be present to unite the subject with the object. THE LINK BETWEEN THE SUBJECT AND OBJECT IN EVERY EXPERIENCE WHATEVER IS CONSCIUOUSNESS. IT IS BOTH THE SUBSTRATUM AND THE WITNESS OF EXPEREINCE.     

Thank you,
   Anil



ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1691 on: May 10, 2012, 07:28:56 PM »
Dear sir,

Which knowledge says, that there is subject and the object. And it is not possible to see the object in the darkness. To my understanding, we do not need any light to see the subject. Only to see the object we need mind, light and understanding the object and memory which are lying outside of us. Am I right?


Ramanaduli

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1692 on: May 11, 2012, 08:24:53 AM »
Dear Sri ramanaduli,

Sri Bhagwan says that subjective knowledge—Knowledge knowing itself is Jnana. Therefore, there is no such division as subject and object in the Reality, The Self is ever as It is.
Sri Bhagwan gave this analogy of the dark room on several occasions to drive home the point that the link between the subject and the object in every experience is Awareness. For instance, suppose you have to search for a book in a room in pitch darkness. Can you find it without light, although you, the subject, and the book, the object, are both present ? Light has to be present to unite you with the book. So also, the link between the subject and the object in every experience, in the present phenomenal existence, is the Consciousness, because It is at once both the Substratum and the Witness.

Thank you,
    Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1693 on: May 11, 2012, 08:29:24 AM »
Dear Devotees,

That which conceals or obstructs the right knowledge or vision is the body-consciousness. There should be no doubt whatever about that. Sri Bhagwan says that this is the ‘viparita Jnana’, which takes place by the union of the Self with the non-Self. Being the Self Itself, what pity that we identify ourselves with all that is the non-Self! So, what should be our first and foremost business on this Terra Firma ? Sri Bhagwan says, “Your business is to enquire and be as the Self.” By enquiry itself we find that we are not the body, nor the mind, nor the senses, and nor the intellect. Sri Bhagwan says that we are that which remains after eliminating all that is not the Self.

Sri Bhagwan gives another clue:
By elimination where does the non-Self go ?
THERE IS NO PLACE FOR IT BUT THE SELF. IT IS SIMPLY ABSORBED BY THE SELF.

Thank you,
  Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1694 on: May 12, 2012, 09:37:06 AM »
Devotee: What is the aim to be kept in view ? Practice requires an aim.
Sri Bhagwan : Atman is the aim to be kept in view. What else can there be? ALL OTHER AIMS ARE FOR THOSE WHO ARE INCAPABLE OF ATMALAKSHYA (HAVING THE SELF FOR THE AIM). They lead ultimately to atma-vichara (enquiry into Self).One-pointedness is the fruit of all kinds of practice. One may get it quickly; another after a long time. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE PRACTICE.
                                                                                                                          Talk—290

Dear Devotees,

Our True Nature is happiness. The purpose of all practice is to remove unhappiness generated by the predispositions from time immemorial. Sri Bhagwan says that association with the wise may strengthen the mind but there must also be the practice.
Sri Bhagwan: Yes. Practice is necessary too. Practice means removal of predispositions. Practice is not for any fresh gains; it is to kill the predispositions.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that the practice is the power. If thoughts are reduced to a single thought, the mind is said to have grown strong. When practice remains unshaken it becomes sahaja (natural).

NOW, QUESTION IS WHAT IS SUCH PRACTICE ?
Sri Bhagwan : Enquiring into the Self. That is all. Fix the mind on the Self.

SELF IS WHAT IS. But the problem is this that the Self is being at present confounded with the non-Self. Sri Bhagwan, out of great compassion, teaches that this mixing or confounding of the Self with the non-Self makes us speak of forgetfulness of the Self. THIS IS THE GREAT CONFUSION WHICH MUST BE PUT AN END TO.
HOW?
BY ENQUIRY INTO SELF.
Sri Bhagwan : Forgetfulness must be for the self—well, of what? Of the Self? ARE THERE THEN TWO SELVES ?
(To continue in the next post)

Thank you,
   Anil