Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 728138 times)

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 10:23:18 AM »
Dear amiatall,thank you for your response.
pvssnraju

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 03:49:28 PM »
 Sri Bhagwan said that Self-enquiry is the only infallible means to attain Self-knowledge.Sri Muruganar said that
 it is more than hundred percent enough.Having understood the technique of the self-enquiry, as revealed by
 Sri Bhagwan, rather well, atleast intellectually, one still doubts its efficacy. Where do we err ? When 'Who am I ?'
 question is raised only verbally without adequate doubt about the true nature of the enquirer, the thinker, it
 can not be termed as the Self-enquiry. If I know who raise the question, to ask 'Who am I?' is obviously absurd.
 If I do not know 'I' and ask 'Who am I?' and at the same time think that I am not progressing in self-enquiry,
 I have to attend to this or that work, I am not fit for Self-enquiry, my father's health is deteriorating fast, etc.,
 this is also absurd.

 If I do not know "I", who is not progressing, who is to attend to this or that work, who is not fit, whose
 father is ill etc. ?

 When one asks profoundly, "Who am I ?", each and every thought is meaningless, sheenless, redundant,
 and totally irrelevant thus effectively preventing thoughts at their birth place imparting them mortal
 blows.The thinker is apprehended by intense attention on the I-thought which Sri bhagwan says will
 then merge subsequently of its own accord  with the Source or the Self.

                                                                                              Thank you.         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 03:00:28 PM »
             'Sarva-dharman paritajyo mam ekam saranam vraja
             aham tva sarva-papebhyo moksayami ma sucah|'

  "Abandoning dependence on all dharmas (or on human efforts at moral and spiritual upliftment),
  come to Me as the only refuge. Grieve not;I will deliver you from all sins."
                                                                              Verse 66, Chap.-18
                                                                            Srimad Bhagavad Gita

    Sri Bhagwan said, " Your duty is to be and not to be this or that.This sums up the whole Vedanta."

        I am Anil.
       I am a  civil engineer.
       I am the father of so and so.

    I am. Therefore I think I am Anil. I exist first and, therefore, I think I am Anil.
    I am. Therefore I think I am a civil engineer. I exist first and, therefore, this existence enables me to     
    think that I am a civil engineer.
    I am. Therefore I think I am the father of so and so.I exist and this is the basis for me to think I am the father
    of so and so.

   Descartes said, "I think therefore I exist."

         But Sri Bhagwan taught us that first I am, I exist and, therefore, I think.

                                                                                       Thank you. 
                 
   

     

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 06:38:03 PM »
What Descartes said is true.

'I' THINK therefore 'I' exist. If 'I' don't think, 'I' does not exist. What remains is that which cannot be named even as 'I'.

Well at least it is one of the many ways looking at it...

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 09:21:22 AM »
 Dear Sri amiatal,

 Yes, what Sri Descartes said is true in that I-thought or the ego or the central thought exists because of
 association  with other thoughts only. But "I", the Existence ,the Self, is, It needs no association whatsoever
 to exist. Only It is.

 But Dear Sri amiatal, You know Sri Descartes meant "I" in the sense of existence as it is obvious from
 ' I think, therefore I exist.'
 Nevertheless, thank you so much for response. 

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2010, 09:28:30 AM »
Dear eranilkumarsinha,i agree totally with your point of view.Nice post.
pvssnraju

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2010, 11:52:28 AM »
 Dear Sri Dr.Raju ji,
           
 Thank you so much, Sir.Your and Sri Subramanian ji's endorsement of views and feelings
 give us necessary courage as well as encouragement.They invariably provide essential hints
 that one is treading the Path shown, lighted and enjoined by our Guru sincerely. Thank you so much, Sir.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2010, 04:43:07 PM »
  "The unreal can never come into existence, and the real can never cease to be.
    The wise philosophers have known the truth about the real and the unreal."
                                               
                                                 Ch.-2,V-16
                                           Srimad Bhagwat Gita
  " Is there an existent awareness other than existence ? Because the existence-reality exists in the Heart
    free from psychoses, the existence-reality is called the Heart. How to cotemplate it ? To exist as it exists
    in the heart is to contemplate it. Thus should you know."

                                                                                                V-1, Invocation,
                                                                                             Forty Verses On Reality

 Each and every one experiences feelings of existence. Can there be feelings of existence without that
 which truly exists always ? Sri Bhagwan said that 'I am' is God.He always referred to the Bible's
 Mahavakya, " I am that I am".

 Thus,
 'I am' or the Self or the Existence or God is the most basic and fundamental experience within the
  reach of each and every one,more natural than even the experience of air and sky.The simplest
  experience ever conceivable. Whatever the states,sleeping, dreaming or waking,feelings of 'I am' or
  the existence is the underlying reality on which  the edifice of the mind, body and the world is built
  upon.

                                                                                    Thank you.               

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2010, 07:44:07 PM »
Dear eranilkumarsinha,

no, actually I don't know in fact what Descartes meant, I only inquire. At the first glance it may seem that he refers to existence overall, but to me the question arose - existence of what? What is this "I" he referring to when saying 'I Think'? To me it is clear (at least for now) that what he refers to is the thinker and not That which enabled him. Anyway it is a matter of perception nothing more.


What really hits me deeply is this excerpt from Kaivalaya Navaneeta:

Disciple: "How should I remain, so that I may experience what you have described as Bliss?''
Master: "If you get rid of the mode of mind which give rise to the states of waking, dream and sleep, you will remain as your true being and also experience Bliss. 

Any comments ?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 08:55:17 AM »



What Sri Bhagavan and His devotees said about this Dascretes
statement was:

"I think" therefore I am.

It means that one's existence is known by the fact that he thinks.

The devotees said, it is a folly.  When thinking process goes on,
"I am" is not there, but only the ego.  Only when I cease to think,
"I am".



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2010, 09:15:59 AM »
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

 Thank you so much, Sir, for enlightening us on Sri Descartes Statement.

  Sri Bhagwan often asked, " Are there two Shelves ? "

 Sri Descartes also must be meaning only subjective feeling of existence
 by "I" in his statement, 'I think, therefore, I am. Sir,kindly enlighten.

                                                                                 With regards,
                                                       
                                                                                     Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2010, 09:49:09 AM »
Dear Sri amiatal,

  With regard to Sri descartes Statement, please see Sri Subramanian ji's post where he has explained it so nicely.

 With regards to the second para in your post, although I do not feel I am competent to reply,
 with Sri Bhagwan's Grace  I shall try to explain in His own words.

 Sri Bhagwan said, " After negating all as not this , not that , that awareness which alone remains is
 the Self-that I am. The nature of awareness is Existence- Consciousness- Bliss."

 Again, mind is a wondrous power residing in the Self causing thoughts to rise, covering and hiding our true nature.
 
 Verse 17, Upadesa Saram,

 What is the mind ? If one searches to find out, then there would be no separate entity as the mind.

 Verse 18,

 The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. They are dependent on the 'I"-thought. Know the 'I"-thought
 to be the mind.

 Verse 20,
 When the 'I'-thought perishes, then another I-I springs forth as the Heart, spontaneously. It is Existence
 in all its fullness. 

 Thus, when the three states of the mind are got rid of bu sadhana, our true nature as
 Existence-Consciousness-Bliss is revealed.

                                                                             Thank you.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2010, 02:13:41 PM »



Dear amiatall,

What I think, that the verse you have quoted from Kaivalya Navaneetam means -

a) A Jnani is ever in Bliss and this Bliss is the fourth state. Turiyam.

b) It is beyond the normal man's states of wakefulness- Jagrat, swapna - dream, and sushupti - deep sleep.  He is ever blissful.
A Jnani may appear to be wakeful, dreaming [that he only knows
or tells later] or sleeping, but he is ever blissful even in these
apparent states.


   

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2010, 09:59:34 AM »
 Reading Dr.Sarada's writings on Bhagwan Sri Ramana is sheer joy. Sri Bhagwan's Teaching is integral
 and absolute. However, her writings provide unique clarity to sadhana. A passage from her
 'Surging Joy' is quoted below :

 " If one recognises that all goal orientation is thought, that all need to achieve, to experience is thought and it is
   the very thoughts that screen the Truth, then the clouds cease to diturb the view. One would realise then that
   the thoughts can not reach the Self,that it is not affected by them even as noise does not disturb the stillness
   of Arunachala or clouds and trees that are seen in between do not break the vastness of the sky. One would
   recognise too, that the joy of seeming close to Self-awareness, and the sorrow of being away or disturbed are
   both projections of the mind. They are both for the experiencer , for the practitioner of the path. And who is
   the one who practices ? Who is the sadhaka ? Is he the joyous one ? Is he the depressed one ? Is he the one
   who makes progress ? Is he the one who is obstructed on the inward way ? Who is that 'i' ? When one does not
   know, when the search is still on, what do the moods of that stanger matter ?

   Most important, what really is the power of the 'I' ? Does it have power to search and find its own source ?
   Wherefrom does it acquire the strength to do so ? Does not the courage for the enquiry, the very ability to
   enquire, spring from Bhagwan's Grace ? Is it not Grace that drew us to Him, made us aware of His way and
   put on the path ? Is it not Grace that keeps us going ? Nad is it not Grace that is the very goal "

                    Great writing indeed !

                                                                                      Thank you.   

     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2010, 10:06:04 AM »
  Sorry, the last sentence of the passage in the above post is, " And is it not Grace that is the very goal ?" 

                                                                                                                   Thank you