Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756218 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1350 on: August 27, 2011, 03:35:36 PM »
Know that not regarding oneself erroneously as being limited to the body and trapped in family bonds is a far superior renunciation to the state wherein one thinks repeatedly within one’s mind: ‘I have truly extricated myself by renouncing all the ties of the world.’
                                                                V. 840, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji.  Yes. Sri Bhagwan often gave the example of an accountant or a cashier who goes on counting millions of currency notes throughout his career, but remains all the while unattached without allowing temptation and greed to have better of him.  So, Sri Bhagwan says that the man who does his duty  with best of his capacity but does not think ‘I do this’ or ‘I do that’ is better than the man who thinks he has renounced everything.  Sri Bhagwan says that a man who thinks ‘I am a sannyasi’ cannot be a true sannyasi. On the contrary, a householder who does not think ‘I am a householder’ is a true sannyasi.   

Sri Muruganar says in his commentary on the cited Verse above: ‘NOT THINKING IS A FAR SUPERIOR RENUNCIATION TO THINKING.’ Yes, mere thinking that one has renounced is a mental imagination. It is also obvious that one cannot entertain the thought of renunciation unless he is still, at least to some extent, afflicted with the “I am the body’ idea.
Therefore Sri Bhagwan teaches : STATE OF REMAINING STILL, WHICH IS OUR NATURAL STATE, IS TRUE SANNYASA, AND NOT THINKING THAT ‘I HAVE TRULY RENOUNCED ONE AND ALL AND EVERYTHING AND I AM NOW FREE’.

Thank you so much, for a nice post, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1351 on: August 27, 2011, 05:14:36 PM »


Dear Anil,

I was just now listening to a CD on  Atma Vidya Kirtanam - Discourses by
Nochur Venkataraman.  The discourses were for 8 days each day
75 minutes to cover five paragraphs of the Kirtanam.  Many many
cross references to Sri Bhagavan's various works, Talks, Sanskrit
references from Sri Sankara, Chandogya Upanishad, Srimad
Bhagavatam etc., had been given by Sri Venkataraman.  A truly
nectarine feast for ears.  There he says, while explaining stanza 4,

Karmathi kattavizha, janmathi nattamezha,
Emmargam adhaninum immargam mik eLithu,
Son, manatha, dhanuvin kanmathi siRithinRi
Summa amarnthirukka amma ahathil anma jothiye!
Nidhanubhutiye, irathu peedhiye
inba ambodhiye....

When one truly renounces words, mind, and body - actions of these
- it is true renunciation.  As Muruganar says renunciation of thinking
i.e Sri Bhagavan mentions the mind also. That is true internal renunciation.

We are thinking that actions are only by the body. Not alone. Even mind's
actions, harping anger, greed, jealousy, lust, fear etc., are also actions.
Even these should be renounced. Then, actions of words, i.e scolding
others, speaking ill of others, speaking jokingly about others, speaking
other man's habits, etc., are the actions of the words. ie tongue.

All the three should be renounced. 



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1352 on: August 28, 2011, 08:27:30 AM »
"When one truly renounces words, mind, and body - actions of these
- it is true renunciation. As Muruganar says renunciation of thinking
i.e Sri Bhagavan mentions the mind also. That is true internal renunciation.

We are thinking that actions are only by the body. Not alone. Even mind's
actions, harping anger, greed, jealousy, lust, fear etc., are also actions.
Even these should be renounced. Then, actions of words, i.e scolding
others, speaking ill of others, speaking jokingly about others, speaking
other man's habits, etc., are the actions of the words. ie tongue.

All the three should be renounced."

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. I wished to take the discussion on the question of renunciation and resignation from the service, etc. to the state of the mind.

As a ripened fruit separates effortlessly from the tree and falls, when a sadhaka who is aiming to merge his mind in the supreme attains maturity, he will definitely renounce family life as unsalted gruel unless his unfavourable prarabdha stands in the way.
                                                                     V. 830, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

For those who have, with great difficulty, accomplished the renunciation of the ego, there is nothing else to resign.
                                                                       V. 837, GVK, Edited by Sri David godman

Yes, instead of renouncing this and that, renunciation of the ego-mind is the renunciation of all which I claim to be mine. If the possessor himself is given up or surrendered or renounced, all possessions stand renounced of their own accord.

Dear sir, there is a conversation in ‘Crumbs from His Table’ on page 43, which has also been quoted in the GVK below V. 830, and which I consider the final verdict on the question of resignation from the service and renouncing the world, etc.
Devotee : I have a good mind to resign from service and remain constantly with Bhagwan.
Sri Bhagwan : Bhagwan is always with you, in you, and you are yourself Bhagwan. To realise this it is neither necessary to resign your job nor run away from home. Renunciation does not imply apparent divesting of costumes, family ties, home , etc., but renunciation of desires, affection and attachment. There is no need to resign your job, BUT RESIGN YOURSELF TO HIM, THE BEARER OF THE BURDEN OF ALL. ONE WHO RENOUNCES DESIRES, ETC., ACTUALLY MERGES IN THE WORLD AND EXPANDS HIS LOVE TO THE WHOLE UNIVERSE. Expansion of love and affection would be a far better term for a true devotee of God than renunciation, for one who renounces the immediate ties actually extends the bonds of affection and love to a wider world beyond the borders of caste, creed and race. A sannyasi, who apparently casts away his clothes and leaves his home does not do so out of aversion to his immediate relations but because of the expansion of his love to others around him.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan says that when this expansion of Love comes, there is no other. There is no division in that Love. It is all-encompassing. There is no movement, no action, no doing, but It is being. Where will such a devotee of the Self or God run away?  Such a devotee does not feel that he is running away from home. Sri Bhagwan says that such a devotee drops from the home like a ripe fruit from a tree. TILL THEN IT WOULD BE FOLLY TO LEAVE ONE’S JOB OR HIS HOME.

Regards,
   Anil           

       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1353 on: August 28, 2011, 10:47:20 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

At present I do not have the copy of 'Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai' with me. There is portion named 'Bringasandesam' in it. Will you kindly cite one or two Verses from it in which the 'Nayika' laments and her maid consoles her that That which you are seeking is verily within you ?

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1354 on: August 28, 2011, 02:45:20 PM »
The body is itself a disease. If the body gets a disease, it means that the original disease has got another disease. If you really want this new disease not to trouble you, you must first take the required medicine for the original disease so that the later disease –that is, the DISEASE OF THE DISEASE—does not affect you.
                                                             P. 61, Letters from Sri Ramanasramam

Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan goes on to add that there is no use worrying about the secondary disease that the body gets. Instead, one should try to find out a medicine for the primary disease, that is, the body.

SO, THE BODY ITSELF IS THE DISEASE OF THE DISEASE. PRIMARY DISEASE. Is it not ?
Now we should consider anger. Why do we get angry in the first place? Who gets angry anyway? Somebody hurts us and we get angry, somebody abuses us and we get angry. Don’t we ? But all these things pertain to the body which is only a mental projection.  What somebody is abusing is only my body. And Sri Bhagwan says that there is no greater enemy than this body which is the abode of anger and similar such many, many vices. It is necessary that we ourselves should hate it. Even if somebody abuses in our unguarded moments, we should take it as if he is waking us up. Sri Bhagwan says that even we should join the abuser in abusing the body and cry it down. There is no use of counter-abuse
When a devotee actually complained that when he is abused unnecessarily, he gets angry and he is not able to restrain howsoever much he tries.
Sri Bhagwan replies, “What should you do? You too join him and abuse yourself; then it will be all right.” All present laughed.
Sri Bhagwan says : Those who abuse us that way should be looked upon as our friends. It is good for us to be among such people. If you are among people who praise you, you get deceived.   

When a devotee complained to Sri Bhagwan that howsoever much he tries to reduce anger it comes on again and again. What should he do to overcome this recurrence of the anger?
Sri Bhagwan replies, “Oh! Is that so? Then get angry with that anger. It will be all right.” All devotees present in the August Hall burst into laughter. 

Dear devotees, if one enquires why is he angry or who is it that is angry, one is certain to find soon enough that there is neither the one who is angry nor is there anybody other or anything different form himself as the cause to be angry about.

Dear devotees, I have particularly noted that that when these remarks were made by Sri Bhagwan, all present in the Hall laughed. But I feel that all these observations and remarks were made in full earnestness, for there is truth in it. A Perfect Jnani’s every UTTERANCE has a deeper meaning and significance.
For example: As soon as one senses anger building up, getting angry with that anger is a sure method to tackle it at its very place of rising particularly for the practiser of the Atma-vichara.

Thank You,
   Anil       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1355 on: August 28, 2011, 04:26:44 PM »


Dear Anil.

Bringa Sandesam means sending the bees as messengers.  This is
a typical Tamizh poetry form, where the heroine sends bees as messengers
to the hero who had gone away . In Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, the verses
are named VaNdu Vidu Thoothu. VaNdu means bee.

Verse 894:

Look my friends, just look at Him
Enjoying Bliss
What that other woman Mukti,
Abandoning me, poor me,
To grievous suffering,
Me here dying, sore lamenting!
Venkata, the King who used to fill
With nectar every pore of of every bone,
The wizard who stole this slave girl's heart,
Go and fetch Him, honey bees.

{Prof. K. Swaminathan}

The hero Ramana has gone with another woman called Mukti!
Hence Muruganar, as a girl laments His
separation!

K. Swaminathan has translated only two verses. There are 10 verses
in Tamizh original by Muruganar.

Incidentally, today is Muruganar's Liberation Day.  Sravana Amavasya
in 1973, he merged with Sri Bhagavan!



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1356 on: August 29, 2011, 08:48:43 AM »
Verse 894: Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai

“Look my friends, just look at Him
Enjoying Bliss
What that other woman Mukti,
Abandoning me, poor me,
To grievous suffering,
Me here dying, sore lamenting!
Venkata, the King who used to fill
With nectar every pore of every bone,
The wizard who stole this slave girl's heart,
Go and fetch Him, honey bees.”

{Prof. K. Swaminathan}

“The hero Ramana has gone with another woman called Mukti!
Hence Muruganar, as a girl laments His
separation!”



Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much, sir, for citing and posting the song I was looking for. Thanks a lot also for posting the information that Sravana Amvyasya is Sri Muruganar’s Liberation Day. So, first I must pay my obeisance to the Great Poet who sang like Sri Manikavachagar, and who inspires me no end.
Salutation and prostration again and again to the Great Poet of the Court of Bhagwan Sri Ramana whose sublime and divine poetry inspires me to seek the Self and be It !

Ji, yes, in the ‘Brigasandesan’
The Hero is Sri Ramana Bhagwan Himself.
Sri Muruganar is the Heroine.
The other woman is Mukti.
The bee is the maid.
The hero is gone with other woman called Mukti (Liberation).
So, the Heroine suffers the separation and laments to the maid.

This is the literal meaning of the verse. However, Sri Bhagwan Himself explains the Verse thus : (Source: Letters from Sri Ramanasramama)
Bhava is that of a Nayika (Heroine) and of a nayak (hero).
The mind is Nayika.
Bhagwan Sri Ramana is Nayak.
Bee (the unwavering budhi) is the maid.

Now the Heroine says to her maid,”My Ramana has disappeared. Search and bring Him.”
The maid reminds the Heroine, “Oh, Mistress ! When your Ramana is in your Self, where can I search for Him ? If at any time, the food given is hot, you say ‘Oh ! my Ramana, my Lord, is in my Heart; will he not get burnt with this heat.Now where do you want me to search ? When your Lord is within yourself, where can I search for Him ? Give up this delusion. Join the Lord that is within yourself and be peaceful.”   

Dear sir, the Verse depicts Sri Muruganar’s unwavering devotion to the Guru. Besides this depiction of ‘Eka-Bhakti, what is most remarkable in the Verse is the role played by the Bee-maid which is theUnwavering Intellect. Sri Bhagwan explains that this is the unwavering Intellect (Nischayatimka Budhi as opposed to Avyavasayika budhi) which points out the Truth to the Heroine (mind) about the Hero (Self). In men without spiritual conviction such steadfast intellect and wisdom are not cultivated. Therefore, it follows that Sri Muruganar’s intellect (Bee-maid) is ’achala’ and unwavering in conviction and devotion to his Lord, that is, Sri Bhagwan. 

Regards,
  Anil

     
   


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1357 on: August 29, 2011, 12:53:09 PM »
Vyavasya’atmika  budhir ek’eha  Kur-nandana
Bahu-sakha  hy  anantas-ca  budhyo’vyavasayinam
“O Arjuna ! In this path of selfless action the Nischayatimika budhi, that is, unwavering Intellect which generates conviction ‘EKA’, is directed towards a single objective. In men without spiritual conviction, Intellect is Avyavasyatmika or Anischaytmika, that is their intellect is many branched and endless.
                                         V. 2-41, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

In the minds of the votaries of power and pleasure, addicted to enjoyments of the senses, unwavering and steadfast Intellect which produces conviction of ‘EKA’, and which is capable of revealing the Truth, is never generated.
                                          V. 2-44, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Dear Devotees,

Although the above cited Verses of the Gita are mentioned in the context of the path of Action, nevertheless, they are applicable to all spiritual disciplines. For, they portray the contrast between a spiritual person who whole-heartedly follows a spiritual path and a worldly-minded person who follows wealth, sensual satisfaction and craves for the fulfilments of his ever-forming new and old ambitions.  A man who has firm faith in Divine Principle, in Scriptures and in the Nectarine Words of the Guru has an Unwavering Intellect and a fixed Goal which does not vary, come what may come. He is the PERSON who has the correct idea of the Truth and Destination and has with discrimination chosen the most appropriate Road to It. Such a person is at peace with himself, for, he knows that he is on the right course.

On the other hand, worldly-minded persons can never have the fixed world view, for the nature of the world is transitory and one of perpetual change, and therefore, the goals and ambitions of such persons are always shifting and changing. Such persons care only for gains, sensual enjoyments, and remain engaged all the time in the pursuit of ambitions. Such worldly persons do not have conviction about the nature of the world and their own destiny in it. The Intellect of such persons are many branched, remaining engaged in the pursuit of several ends. Their mental energies are dissipated and eventually they lose control of the mind and become slaves to senses and their objects.

Thank You,
   Anil     


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1358 on: August 29, 2011, 01:25:36 PM »
Dear devotees, in my post, re. 1395, in the third and the fourth lines, I have mentioned ‘Nischayatimka Budhi as opposed to Avyavasayika Budhi’ which should be read as “Vyavasay’atmika Budhi or Nischayatmika Budhi as opposed to Avyavasay’atmika or Anischayatmika Budhi”. Thank you. Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1359 on: August 29, 2011, 03:33:44 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes.  All pleasures from the world are ephemeral, impermanent. Because
the mind is involved there. For example, in deep sleep, where there is
no mind, at least temporarily, the pleasure or sukam is the most excellent
one.

There was one Swamiji, to whom a disciple was constantly pestering
about a doubt.  Swamiji said, Wait, wait, I shall clarify it to you.  Then
one night, at 2 am. when the disciple was in deep sleep, the Swami
tried to shake  him out of sleep  said : Now I shall clarify your doubt.

The disciple said: No Master. I do not want any clarification now. He turned
to the other side and nicely slept.

Swamiji said next morning:  See, even when temporarily mind is not there,
you are enjoying bliss in sleep. What is the reason. The mind is not there.
So all your doubts are mental. Keep quiet and do meditation.  The doubts
will evaporate.



Arunachala Siva.
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1360 on: August 29, 2011, 04:48:38 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

From reading the chapter on Sri Muruganar in the Power of the Presence, Part Two, it seems that Sri Muruganar left his job, his wife and home to be with Sri Bhagwan but perhaps he never took sannyasa.The book mentions that Sri Muruganar's wife Smt. Meenakshi also came to live in Sri Ramanasramam. For Smt Meenakshi narrates, "Another day he (Sri Bhagwan) called me M'eenakshi' and gave me ten verses by Muruganar to memorise. In these verses he describes Bhagwan as his bridegroom with Muruganar being his bride. He complains that Bhagwan has left the bride in the streets after marriage without proper care.

Dear sir, the Verse mentioned by Smt. Meenakshi is V. 873 of Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai :

Then you and I were alone,
Both one, for ever one,
But then, like some care-free vagabond
Incapbale of constant love,
You left me in the street for folk
 To laugh and jeer at!
 If now I took the liberty
To speak of it, you'd answer straight
That it was but a dream we dreamed.


I think that above verse is also one from the 'Bringasandesan'. Is it not ? 

However, dear sir, I am of the opinion that this is an enactment of the 'Divine Leela', not less intrguing and sublime than that which was enacted between the Lord and the Gopis. Here, if the 'Leela' enacted between Sri Bhagwan and Sri Muruganar is not 'Rasa Leela', dear sir, please tell me what it is?

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
   Anil






Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1361 on: August 29, 2011, 06:23:25 PM »


Dear  Anil,

The song you are referring to, is Ramana Mayavan, in Sri Ramana
Sanndihi Murai.  This is song No. 79, with 11 verses.  Sri Bhagavan
told Smt, Meenkashi to sing that song with changing of the last two
words as Muruga Mayavan, just to attract Muruganar. When she sang
that way, everyone looked at Muruganar and laughed.  But Muruganar
got angry and left the Hall.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1362 on: August 30, 2011, 08:11:09 AM »
 Sri Bhagavan says: Internal renunciation is the true renunciation.
One can do all the household duties, office work etc., effectively, if
one can do them without the sense - I am doing. It is my work. etc.,
He used to tell the example of a bank cashier. He deals with crores of
rupees, gives them for some and takes from some every day. But he
never considers the money as his money. Still he does it effectively,
as long as he does not lose concentration on the work without at the
same time treating the money as 'mine.'

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Discussion on internal renunciation prompts me to discuss ‘Antara Sravana’ (Hearing inwardly). As internal renunciation occurs to a mature devotee, so too ‘Antara Sravana’ occurs to a mature devotee. Sri Bhagwan expalains it beautifully thus : (Source: Letters from Sri Ramanasramam)

“If people at a distance enquire how to go to Ramana Maharshi, we have to tell them to get into such and such a train or take such and such a path, but if they come to Tiruvannamalai, reach Ramanasramam and step into the Hall, it is enough if only they are told, here is that Person. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THEM TO MOVE ANY FURTHER.”
So too, Sri Bhagwan says that if devotees, whose minds are mature, told that Swarupa Itself is Sat-Chit-Ananada, the Self, Param Shanti (Supreme Bliss), they at once experience Jana as their True Being, Their own Self as the Existence as well as the Supreme Bliss Itself.

Therefore, it is obvious that it is for only the immature minds that sravana and manana are prescribed. There is no need of them for the mature minds. But this applies to outward sravana and manana. For, mature minds become receptive and attuned to ‘INWARD SRAVANA AND INWARD MANANA’. They occur to advanced devotees as a result of maturity of their minds.

Sri Bhagwan says that ‘Antara Sravana means knowledge of the Self which is in the Heart’s Cave always illuminated with the feeling ‘Aham, Aham’ (‘I-I’).To get that feeling to be in one’s Heart is ‘Antara Manana’. And, of course, to remain in one’s Self, uninterrupted, is Nididhyasana.         
 
Dear sir, it follows from the above discussion that Guru’s Grace alone can usher in internal renunciation by enabling His adoring devotees to get rid of the treacherous and tenacious ego and thus pave way for such mature devotees to become receptive and attuned to the ‘Antara Sravana’ and ‘Antara Manana’.

Thank you so much, sir.
Regards
  Anil   


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1363 on: August 30, 2011, 10:40:13 AM »
A Pandit : Swami, there will be several bondages for the attainment of realisation, will there not ?

Dear Devotees,
Sri Bhagwan, who was reclining on the sofa, sat up and replied that they are the bondages of the past, the future and the present and a Master Story-Teller that He is, He narrated a story from the Upanishads regarding the past bondages which is as follows:

A brahmin with a large family acquired a she-buffalo, and by selling its milk, ghee etc., he maintained his family. He remained occupied the whole day collecting fodder grass, etc. for the buffalo, in feeding and maintaining her. But, unfortunately tragedy struck him hard. His wife and all his children passed away one by one. He was left with only the buffalo and therefore he concentrated his love and affection on her alone. However, after sometime, the buffalo passed away too.  The Brahmin was left alone- disgusted, disillusioned and disenchanted. So, he renounced his family life and the world and took to Sannyasa. He sought a Sadguru and started practicing prayer and meditation at his Feet.

After some days, the Guru called him and asked, “You have been doing spiritual practices for several days now. Have you found any benefit from them?”
The Brahmin then narrated the tragic events to the Guru and said, “Swami, at that time I used to love the buffalo because it was mainstay of my family. Though it passed away long ago, yet when I am deeply engrossed in meditation, it always appears in my thoughts. What am I to do?”
The Guru realised that a past bondage was obstructing the meditation of the devotee, He taught the Brahmin thus:
The Guru : Son, the Brahman is said to be ‘asti, bhati and priyam’. Asti means omnipresent; bhati means lustre; and priyam means love. Therefore, the buffalo, being the object of your love, It also is the Brahman. It has a name and form; so what you should do is to give up your name and form as well as those of the buffalo. If that is done, what remains is the Brahman Itself. Therefore, give up names and forms and meditate.”
Following the Guru’s Teaching, the Brahmin devotee meditated, giving up both names and forms and attained Self-Realisation.
Sri Bhagwan says that That, WHICH IS, is only One—Omnipresent and Universal. The differentiation,  I am a Brahmin, or that is a buffalo, or this is a table and so on and so forth, is on account of the false appearance of the names and forms. Sri Bhagwan says that names and forms are past bondages.

Thank you,
   Anil             



Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1364 on: August 30, 2011, 01:40:38 PM »


Dear Anil,

Nice story.  The Upanishads says that a man loves his wife not for the sake of wife, but for the
Self within, he loves the son not for the sake of the son but for the sake of the Self within.  All
love is only love of the Self.



Arunachala Siva.