Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758756 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1275 on: August 12, 2011, 09:44:13 AM »


Dear Anil,

In Sadhanai Saram [Eng: A Light on the Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana Maharshi - Sri Sadhu Om]  Sri Sadhu Om is even more
forceful in treating the other methods are only for bystanders and
not for serious devotees of Sri Bhagavan!

In  Para 237, He says:

From the mouth of Sri Ramana Bhagavan, words sometimes arose
as if commending other methods, such as watching the breath or
japa. This apparently was in order to shut the mean mouths of
BYSTANDERS [those people who are attached to the practice of
traditional yogic and vedantic methods of sadhana, by giving them
no room to find fault saying, "Bhagavan has set aside all the ancient
methods, showing complete indifference to them.".

I think this view  of Sri Sadhu Om appears rather an extreme contention.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1276 on: August 12, 2011, 11:22:51 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,


“I think this view of Sri Sadhu Om appears rather an extreme contention.”

Ji, yes, it appears extreme at first glance. But my contention is that if one is striving for Self-Knowledge, Sri Sadhu Om’s contention, in my view, is perfectly justified and absolutely in accord with Sri Bhagwan’s Own Teaching and is therefore highly desirable. 
In addition to what I wrote and posted in my last post, I wish to add as following:

Therefore, other spiritual practices give only mental strength required to prevent the mind from branching out into innumerable thoughts, but it is still dwelling upon one second person thus increasing the power of the mind to cling with great attachment to one second person or the other. And when it is made to turn Self-wards, it finds it very difficult. Sri Sadhu Om gives another beautiful example to prove this very point which is as follows :

A certain Person has decided to go to Vellore from Tiruvannamalai by cycle. Vellore is located fifty miles north of Tiruvannamalai. But he does not know the art of cycling. So, he decides to train himself to cycle by practicing along the road leading to Tirukoilur, a town located twenty miles south of Tiruvannamalai. After many hours of practice he learns the skill to cycle. But he finds himself twenty miles south of Tiruvannamalai and now seventy miles away from Vellore, the destination. So, he will have to travel a longer distance which will take more time to reach Vellore. However, if he had from the very beginning decided to train himself to cycle by practicing along the road to Vellore, he would have travelled twenty miles less to reach Vellore, by the time he learnt cycling. He would have travelled twenty miles closer to Vellore during this time. Besides, since he would have learnt cycling by that time, he could have easily completed the remaining thirty miles and have reached his destination without undue expenditure of time and effort.

Therefore, practices such as japa and meditation, to attain Self-enquiry, is akin to learning cycling along the road to Tirukoilur while the ultimate destination is Vellore. For, the strength acquired is cultivated in an opposite direction, that is, towards a second person. So, these are the practices which lead one far away from the Self-attention. Sri Om says that if, on the other hand, one practices Self-attention from the very beginning, that will be akin to practicing to train cycling along the road to Vellore. Since Self-enquiry, thus, avoids all unnecessary efforts and directly bestows Self-knowledge, Sri Bhagwan says that of all the paths, it is the easiest and the Direct Path for ALL.
Well, Now Sri Bhagwan says, “By repeatedly practicing thus, the strength of the mind to abide in the source increases” (Who am I?).
Since the practice of japa or dhyana prevents the mind from branching out into innumerable thoughts pertaining to sense objects and thereby getting vitiated, Sri Bhagwan says in ‘Who am I?’ that they give strength to the mind. So, one benefit is derived from such practices—saving the mind from its calamitous habits of branching out into innumerable thoughts caused by the tendencies  towards the sense objects.
Therefore, when Sri Bhagwan says that by repeatedly practicing thus, the strength of the mind increases, HE MEANS ONLY A STRENGTH TO DWELL UPON AN OBJECT OTHER THAN THE SELF, THAT IS, UPON ONE SECOND PERSON OR THE OTHER.
Therefore, those seekers who are striving for Self-Knowledge, this kind of strength obtained through japa and dhyana is nothing but a hindrance.
So, the help that we obtain from the practice of japa and dhyana for the success of the Self-enquiry is akin to the help in reaching Vellore which is gained by learning cycling along the road to Tirukoilur. Is it wise to do so ?
Dear devotees, Practicing cycling on the road to Tirukoilur may be only an indirect help towards reaching Vellore. So also the practice of japa and dhyana may also be an indirect help towards attaining Self-Realisation.
However, the hindrance which is created by learning cycling along the road to Tirukoilur, for, just as practicing cycling on the road to Tirukoilur takes the man far away from his destination, so also  practicing japa and dhyana hinders one by taking one far away from the Self.
                                                                 Source : The Path of Sri Ramana, Part One

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil       


 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1277 on: August 12, 2011, 01:56:26 PM »


Dear Anil,.

I agree. Sri Bhagavan Himself has said: "Moorthi dhyanam, mantra japam
and aahara niyamam are only for focussing the mind to attain ekagritha."
These are aids to self enquiry. Like Pranayama.

However, I felt it little odd, when Sri Sadhu Om said: "That Sri Bhagavan
said those things only for the reason that people should not think that
He was not in favour of ancient methods as told in scriptures."



Arunachala Siva.     

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1278 on: August 12, 2011, 02:36:20 PM »
If one practices self-inquiry non stop then other systems is of no value. But who practices self-inquiry non-stop, all day, in whatever situation? Very few.
Thus, all those other systems are very welcome and must be practiced, like formal meditation etc.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1279 on: August 12, 2011, 02:51:16 PM »


Dear amiatall,

Yes. I also agree with you. Sri Bhagavan Himself has asked Muruganar,
Annamalai Swami and one unknown Harijan, to chant Siva, Siva, in the
beginning.   Other methods are not merely for "by standers" but for
all sadhakas in the beginning, to start with.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1280 on: August 12, 2011, 06:35:48 PM »
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1316 on: Today at 01:56:26 PM »
Dear Anil,.

I agree. Sri Bhagavan Himself has said: "Moorthi dhyanam, mantra japam
and aahara niyamam are only for focussing the mind to attain ekagritha."
These are aids to self enquiry. Like Pranayama.
However, I felt it little odd, when Sri Sadhu Om said: "That Sri Bhagavan
said those things only for the reason that people should not think that
He was not in favour of ancient methods as told in scriptures."
________________________________________
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1317 on: Today at 02:36:20 PM »
If one practices self-inquiry non stop then other systems is of no value. But who practices self-inquiry non-stop, all day, in whatever situation? Very few.
Thus, all those other systems are very welcome and must be practiced, like formal meditation etc.
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1318 on: Today at 02:51:16 PM »
Dear amiatall,
Yes. I also agree with you. Sri Bhagavan Himself has asked Muruganar,
Annamalai Swami and one unknown Harijan, to chant Siva, Siva, in the
beginning. Other methods are not merely for "by standers" but for
all sadhakas in the beginning, to start with.



Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri amiatall,

It is obvious that Sri Bhagwan advised to practice any method which suited a particular devotee most, if he couldn’t practice or was simply unable to practice Self-enquiry. There is no difference of opinions among devotees of Sri Bhagwan on that score.  I do also strongly hold the opinion that if one cannot take to Enquiry, any practice which appeals, attracts, and appears easy to him is undoubtedly most welcome.

However, I must add that what Sri Sadhu Om lays stress on is the simple fact that if one’s destination is Vellore, why a wise person should practice to learn cycling on road that leads to Tirukoilur to add twenty miles more to reach his final destination ? Sri Om’s contention is that if one understands the problem in proper perspective, why should he not practice to learn cycling verily on road to Vellore itself so that by the time he is trained he is further twenty miles closer to his destination. Besides, he is now trained which will facilitate him to complete the remaining journey in the shortest possible time.

However, there is no dispute. Sri Bhagwan has assured that all practices, if done sincerely, will ultimately culminate in the Enquiry and therefore all these are aids to Self-enquiry.

No. It is not absolutely essential for those who take to Self-enquiry to practice it non-stop in the in the beginning. Sri Bhagwan , in my knowledge, never asked a beginner in Self-enquiry to do that. Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is a gentle method. You may remember Sri Bhagwan’s oft-repeated simile of a rogue cow who is tempted by the owner with luscious fodder to rein in his own shed.

Having said as the above, I must reiterate once again that if Self-enquiry does not appeal to someone, whatever system he adopts—japa, dhyana, surrender, etc. are undoubtedly most welcome.

Regards,
  Anil   

   






eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1281 on: August 13, 2011, 09:00:59 AM »
Dear Devotees,

You are aware that Sri Bhagwan never forced Self-enquiry on any devotee. Instead, there are innumerable instances and on a number of occasions we see Him even strengthening the faith of the devotees in their chosen paths.
Moreover,Sri Bhagwan regarded highly of the practice of nama-japa.
Sri Bhagwan : To use the name of God one must call upon Him with yearning and unreservedly surrender oneself to Him. Only after such surrender is the name of God constantly with the man.
                                                                                                       Maharshi’s Gospel

It is obvious from the above statement that nama-japa or repetition of the Sacred Name , or God, is taught as the effective aid for those who are following the Path of Devotion or Surrender. However, in the beginning, repetition of the Sacred Name is only an exercise in concentration.  But when it is practiced with devotion and perseverance, there comes a stage when this repetition continues effortlessly. This stage cannot be reached by mechanical exercise in concentration alone, but is achieved by completely surrendering to the Deity whose Name is being chanted.

Dear devotees, what happens when one repeats the Name of God with yearning and after unreservedly surrendering to the Deity ? In my view, when one is constantly with the Name of God, the awareness of the ego ’I’ is gradually replaced by the awareness of the Higher Power. He gradually understands that it is not the individual who is responsible but He alone is responsible for all the activities of the world and thus the awareness of the individual and the world is replaced by the awareness of the Higher Power.
Sri Bhagwan says that when the Self is realised, one becomes aware that repetition is going on effortlessly, automatically and continuously in the Heart.
To quote from Sri Namadeva :
“The all-pervading nature of the Name can only be understood when one recognises one’s own ‘I’. When one’s own name is not recognised, it is impossible to get the all-pervading name.”

Therefore, dear devotees, it follows from the above discussion that the practice of nama-japa leads one to the Realisation of the Self only after a stage is reached when the practice of the nama-japa is merged into the practice of  the Self-attention.
 
Any comment ?

Thank you,
   Anil


 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1282 on: August 13, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan has said that those who find it difficult to do self enquiry,
can resort to nama-japa.  The chanting of God's name in course of
time, will result in surrender and self surrender. Self surrender and
Self enquiry are the two sides of the same coin.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1283 on: August 13, 2011, 12:25:27 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. This is what I meant to say in my last
post. You have very rightly observed in your post that Self-surrender and Self-enquiry
are the two sides of the same coin.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1284 on: August 13, 2011, 03:37:21 PM »
For those who cannot dive deep within through silence, the keenest knowledge, seeking  “What is the source from which the ‘I’ rises?”, it is better to scrutinise while mentally doing japa wherefrom the supreme Word  [para-vak] comes.
                                                                        V. 706, Guru vachaka Kovai

Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwa is said to have composed the following Verse after He saw the above cited Verse of the GVK, in which the same idea is depicted in a terser form.                     

For those who cannot reach through Jnana-marga [Self-enquiry] the place where ‘I’ exists, it is better to know during japa where the supreme Word [para-vak] shines.
                                                                         B 12, Guru Vachaka Kovai, Tr. and comm. Sri Sadhu Om

    Well, this is Self-enquiry masquerading under a different name, i.e. japa, in an indirect way.  Sri Bhagwan explains in Verse-715 of the GVK that the Supreme Word (Para-Vak)  is I-I.

When Sri Ganapati Muni famously approached Sri Bhagwan and prayed to Him to teach him the nature and meaning of the ‘True Tapas’, Sri Bhagwan is said to have, at first,  remained silent and quietly gazed at Sri Muni for fifteen minutes. But since Sri Muni couldn’t understand this Mouna Upadesa of Sri Bhagwan, therefore, he again prayed thus: “I have read about such mouna-upadesa in sastras, but I am unable to understand it. Graciously instruct me through speech also”. So, it is well known that the first Instruction or Upadesa in Self-enquiry was delivered, that is, “Attend to source from which ‘I’ rises”. Sri Sadhu Om writes that bewildered by the novelty of this instruction, Sri Muni asked again, “Can the same state be achieved through japa also? “ So, seeing that the devotee had a great liking for the japa, the second Instruction was given by Sri Bhagwan “If one repeats a mantra and if one watches wherefrom the sound of that mantra starts, there the mind will subside; that is tapas.”           

Sri Om writes: From where else does the sound of a mantra start except from the first person who repeats it? Therefore, watching the source from which the sound of the mantra starts means nothing but attending to ‘I’, the first person, who is doing japa.

Therefore, the second Instruction is also the same as the First One, merely masquerading under the repetition of the mantra.

Thank you,
  Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1285 on: August 13, 2011, 03:52:14 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan's Upadesa to Ganapati Muni is towards self inquiry,
since crores and crores of times of mantra japa did not help to attain
peace of mind.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1286 on: August 14, 2011, 08:39:27 AM »

since crores and crores of times of mantra japa did not help to attain
peace of mind.

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. The great man and devote, Sri Ganapati Muni’s case is unique.
The purpose of the japa is to become aware of the ‘Ajapa’ or the Unspoken Chant which is ever going on involuntarily without being uttered through the mouth in the Heart. So, Sri Bhagwan says that without knowing and understanding this real purpose, many people think that japa is repeating with mouth the word hundreds of thousand s of times, counting them on the fingers or on the string of beads.

Sri Bhagwan first gave ‘Mouna Diksha’ (Silent Initiatinon) to Sri Muni. But it is surprising indeed that a devotee of the stature and greatness of Sri Muni expressed inability to understand it. Sri Bhagwan says that the Guru is the BESTOWER OF SILENCE, and when eyes of the Guru meet with the eyes of the devotee, there is no use for the spoken word. Sri Muni was not satisfied even with the first spoken Instruction on Direct Method and therefore Sri Bhagwan gave him the second Instruction which was nothing but the Direct Method indirectly.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
   Anil     




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1287 on: August 14, 2011, 08:56:16 AM »
Brahmano  hi  pratistha’ham  amrtasy’  avyayasya  ca |
Sasvatasya  ca dharmasya  sukhasy’aikantikasya  ca ||

Indeed, I ( Krishna, the God of Love and Grace, or Pratyagatman, the true Inner Self), am the basic support of Brahman—of the incorruptible state of Moksha, of the Eternal  Law and of unending Bliss.
                                V. 14-27, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

Dear devotees,

The above Verse is regarded as one of the most controversial verses of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita. Why ? Because Brahman is generally understood as the Supreme Absolute Being. But here the Lord says that ‘I, the Lord, am the support of Brahman’. For, in the Advaita system, the Impersonal Absolute is the support of the Personal God, or Ishwara, and of the manifested universe. But in the cited Verse of the Gita, it is turned the other way and declares that the Personal is the support of the Impersonal Absolute and therefore it becomes a riddle.  Some advaitic commentators maintain that ‘I’, Sri Krishna stands for the Nirguna Brahman (Impersonal Absolute), and Brahman means here the Personal Brahman or Ishwara. But this appears arbitrary. Does it not ?

But the moment Sri Bhagwan’s Gaze falls on a riddle, it melts away and no longer remains a riddle. For, for the devotees of Sri Bhagwan the Verse is not a riddle at all.

Sri Bhagwan :
“The Gita says : Brahmano  hi pratishtaham. If that ‘aham’ is known, the whole is known.”
                                                                               Talk—649

If ‘aham’ is known, Self is known. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘knowledge means the overcoming of obstacles which obstructs the revelation of the Eternal Truth that the self is the same as the Brahman’. The idea of separateness is the obstacle and when this obstacle is destroyed by the Self-enquiry, truth is revealed that our own True Self is not separate from Brahman. To drive the point home, Sri Bhagwan quotes V. 10-20 from the Gita which at once ends the riddle of the cited Verse of the Great Scripture:
The Self am I, O Lord of Sleep,
 In every creature’s heart enshrined.
The rise and noon of every form,
I am its final doom as well.

Therefore, I, Lord Sri Krishna, the True Inner Self, am not only in the Heart of all, but, Source of all, Prop of all and their abiding place and their end. All proceed from  Me, have their stay in Me, and finally resolve into Me.

Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says that if that ‘aham’ is known, all is known.  For, ‘I AM’ IS THE SELF, ‘I AM’ IS THE BRAHMAN, ‘I AM’ IS GOD, ‘I AM’ IS THE EXISTENCE-CONSCIOUSNESS-BLISS—SACCHIDANADA-ATMA SWARUPA AND, THEREFORE, ‘I AM’ IS ALL, THERE IS. ‘I AM THAT I AM’ SUMS UP ALL.

“Aham is known, all is known. Know thyself.” How ?

Dear devotees, Self-enquiry is that mighty, sharp-edged sword which cuts the roots of the controversy, nay, controverter himself, and reveals THAT WHICH IS INCONTROVERTIBLE—SWARUPA. 

Thank you,
  Anil 
                       
   
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1288 on: August 14, 2011, 01:52:46 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Krishna is Brahman is either case.  For the sake of understanding
of Arjuna, he says that he is the support of Supreme Brahman. He is
the supporter and the supported. He is in the Heart-Cave of all beings.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1289 on: August 14, 2011, 04:27:03 PM »
Yes. Sri Krishna is Brahman is either case. For the sake of understanding
of Arjuna, he says that he is the support of Supreme Brahman. He is
the supporter and the supported. He is in the Heart-Cave of all beings.

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. In my view, yours is an excellent explanation of the V. 14-27 of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita. Thank you so much, sir. He is the supporter as well as the supported. He is All. The Lord says in V. 7-7 that there is nothing besides Me, Arjuna. Like clusters of yarn-beads fromed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on me. And again in V. 9-19, The Lord says that ‘sadasaccahamarjuna’ , that is, ‘I am being and non-being both, or Sat or asat both I am. Besides, there are many other Verse in the Gita in which the Great Lord says that I am the Self or the Heart-cave of all beings. SELF IS VERILY THE BRAHMAN. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says, “Know the Self, all will be known.”

Regards,
   Anil