Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755852 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1230 on: August 02, 2011, 04:12:55 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for posting important information that Nochur Sri Venkataraman visits Sri Ramanasramam on important occasions like Jayanti and Aradhana, etc. and stays in Tiruvannamalai in his own house.

 His discourses on The Ulladu Narpadu in Sri ramanasramam must also be in Tamizh only?

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1231 on: August 02, 2011, 04:30:31 PM »


Dea Anil,

Yes. But alongside, he quotes Kavyakanta's Sad Darsanam also,



Arunachala Siva.,

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1232 on: August 03, 2011, 08:42:50 AM »
The body is made up of five sheaths; in the term body all the five bodies are included. Without the body the world is not. Has one without the body ever seen the world ?
                                                  V. 5, ULLadu Narpadu

Dear Devotees,

The Teaching of Sri Bhagwan in the ULladu Narpadu that ‘The world is false’ ‘and what exists is only One’ disturbed and puzzled the young scientist who was taught at the university modern concepts of science, such as the nature of the atom and the universe, the wonderful and great power that was stored in them; and the technique employed by the scientists and technologists to harness this power for everyday use by the man.
So, he was puzzled: ‘I am like a tiny atom in this vast universe. Why should God create me here ? Where was I before I was born ? Where will I be after I die, and why I should be here now ? Is not everything that I see real ? Am I not aware of the existence of things through my five senses ? The Maharshi says that none of these exists. Am I not seeing the Maharshi sitting in front of me ?’
The young man was reading the Ulladu Narpadu while these thoughts churned his mind. He could no longer continue reading the book and he became lost in deep thought. How can such a state of mind escape being noticed by Sri Bhagwan when one is in His Presence ? So, Sri Bhagwan faces the young man:
Sri Bhagwan : What is your doubt ?
The young man: A form exists on the sofa, and another form exists on the floor. If I open my eyes and look, the two of them are clearly visible. But you are teaching that what exists is only one. How can this be true ?
Sri Bhagwan first laughed a little and then kept quiet for some time. However, a few minutes later He replied.
Sri Bhagwan : Don’t you perform experiments in laboratory when you are at the university ? Let us suppose that you are researching into some topic. To whatever extent the equipment you use in the experiment is subtle and precise, to that extent the real nature of the things being studied will be known. But even if the equipment is highly sophisticated, if your vision is not normal, then the true nature of things being studied will not be known. Even if the vision is normal, if the brain itself is not normal, then also the true nature of the object being studied will not be known clearly. And even if the brain is normal, if the mind does not engage itself with full attention on the experiment, knowing the truth will not be possible. So, ultimately, ascertaining the truth of an object of study is dependent on the mind.
What is the thing that is called mind ? Sri Bhagwan says that the mind is only bundle of thoughts. All thoughts expand from one and the same thought and that one thought is the primary cause and basis of all other thoughts and it is the ‘I am the body’ thought. Unless this thought occurs first, the appearance of the external objects and the accompanying thought that they are different from oneself, will not occur. In deep sleep, the ‘I am the body’ idea is absent and therefore the world does not appear, nor do appear other thoughts. When one wakes up, ‘I am the body’ thought rises first. Sri Bhagwan teaches the young man thus :
Sri Bhagwan : There are two components in the thought ‘I am the body’: one is the body and the other is ‘I’. The body is something that appears and disappears. It keeps changing all the time and its existence is dependent on outside materials such as food. However, the characteristic of ‘I’ is opposed to this. That which truly exists must exist all the time, but the body does not exist all the time. Therefore, it cannot be real. The ‘I’, though, exists all the time in all the three states of waking, dream and sleep. It is therefore real, whereas the body is unreal. Furthermore, these two joined together cannot constitute a real entity.

Sri Bhagwan says that night and day, darkness and light cannot exist together. If light exists there is no darkness. If there is darkness, there is no light. SO ALSO, NO ENTITY COMPRISING THE ‘BODY’ AND ‘I’ EXISTS. Therefore, the ‘I am the body’ thought is itself false.
 Sri Bhagwan : IF YOU BEGIN TO RESEARCH INTO THE WORLD WITH THIS FALSE INSTRUMENT, HOW CAN THE TRUTH BE DISCOVERED ?

Dear devotees, it is recorded that at that very moment the young man’s obsession for modern, western, scientific methods vanished completely. He understood that Truth cannot be known through the methods of  science.
(Source: A Scientist  Becomes A Vedantin, Mountain Path, Deepam, 2004)

Thank you,
   Anil                 
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1233 on: August 03, 2011, 10:07:25 AM »


Dear Anil,

This is a beautiful event that happened in the Hall.  All our scientific
efforts with the mind and the eyes, with instruments that the mind
has produced with the worldly knowledge. We are even trying to
find out the God's Particle with such instruments. But the Atma Bodham
or Anubhuti is done by killing the mind first, or placing the mind in the
Self. While all outside scientific work is instrumental, the Anubhuti is
experiential. There is no need for any instruments, even the mind is
not necessary. Only requirement is - apart from our effort and
perseverance, is God's grace or Guru's grace. Sri Bhagavan describes
it as very easy, in Atma Vidya Kirtanam. But we, ordinary mortals find
it very difficult, because we do not know how to quieten the mind.



Arunachala Siva.   . 
   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1234 on: August 03, 2011, 02:40:18 PM »
“We are even trying to
find out the God's Particle with such instruments. But the Atma Bodham
or Anubhuti is done by killing the mind first, or placing the mind in the
Self. While all outside scientific work is instrumental, the Anubhuti is
experiential. There is no need for any instruments, even the mind is
not necessary. Only requirement is - apart from our effort and
perseverance, is God's grace or Guru's grace. Sri Bhagavan describes
it as very easy, in Atma Vidya Kirtanam. But we, ordinary mortals find
it very difficult, because we do not know how to quieten the mind.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

My micro- biologist niece, based in U. S. A., tells me that Consciousness is the product of the brain cells ! Brain cells are product of atoms and molecules, i.e. matter. I ask, “How can insentient dead matter give rise to Consciousness or Life—formation of proteins, amino acids, DNA, etc. notwithstanding?” I tell her that Consciousness is that Entity that knows and affirms the existence of matter and the world and I even tell her that in truth Consciousness Itself is the True Existence and therefore is prior to the matter, mind and the world. In fact Consciousness-Existence is the Source of all system of forms.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan says that if the instruments employed by the scientist themselves are defective, true nature of things being studied cannot be known. For example, let us take Sri Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle which gave rise to mechanics of probability and Quantum Mechanics. Uncertainty Principle of Sri Heisenberg emphatically states that both the position and the velocity of, say, a falling particle cannot be measured accurately. For the force or the energy used in the observation disturbs the natural state thereby altering the parameters themselves. Therefore, it follows that the matter and the world can never be completely deterministic and events can never be predicted with complete certainty. As for the matter, it has dual nature—sometimes it behaves as matter and on other times it behaves as waves !
SO MUCH FOR THE SCIENCE !

Ji, Yes. All scientific work is instrumental whereas the ‘Anubhuti’ is experiential. SCIENCE IS LEARNT, TRUTH IS LIVED. All scientific knowledge is objective whereas ‘Knowledge of Truth of oneself’ is Subjective. Scientific knowledge serves only utilitarian purposes and addresses only our physical needs whereas Self-knowledge transcends utility and needs and put one beyond them. SCIENCE HAS GIVEN US TOOLS FOR LIVELIHOOD AND COMFORTS AS WELL AS THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, SELF-KNOWLEDG IS THE FULFILMENT OF HUMANITY ITSELF!

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1235 on: August 03, 2011, 02:58:12 PM »


Dear Anil,

Very nice post.  The brain cells work because Consciousness from
Heart sends its power to the brain cells work.  If brain cells themselves
are Consciousness,  then when a man is in coma or brain-dead, then
the person should also die. But people in coma, or who are clinically
dead have back to life after so many years or even months.

Heisenburg says that a particle can either be a particle or even wave.
When we determine it is a wave, it appears as a particle and vice versa.
Nothing is certain in our scientific discoveries or inventions.  Some say
moon has got water. Some others say moon has no water. Some say
Mars has got atmosphere so man can live there. But others say Mars
does not have atmosphere and even if it is there, it may not contain oxygen
for man to breathe.  What to believe and what not to believe?

Where the Self is the only Certainty, eternal and non changing principle.   



Arunachala Siva.       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1236 on: August 04, 2011, 08:12:29 AM »
He is the wisest of sages. He is the primal being who imparts clear understanding so that the sense of doership is removed from our actions. He is the unique Master who through his gracious bearing afforded me his blissful compassion so that I suffered no more.
                                                                     V. 261, Sri Ramana Anubhuti

The great and noble Ramana, flower of the Saivite faith, in whom truth’s bright diamond sheds the light of truth is none other than the red Mountain Guru who through his abundant grace abolishes false fear and desire alike.
                                                                      V. 262, Sri Ramana Anubhuti

He is the Lord, the immaculate Reality, suffusing the inner stillness where thoughts no longer arise with the pure light of grace. Dwelling as the Self in a Guru’s form, he shattered the darkness which enveloped this world.
                                                                      V. 263, Sri Ramana Anubhuti

Bhagwan Sri Ramana is none other than the Red Mountain Guru who dwelling as the Self, through His abundant Grace, annihilates thoughts in the Abode of the Supreme, suffusing Inner Stillness with Nectar, holds His most dear devotees immersed in the Self, abolishing their false fear and false desire alike, for once and all. 

Thank you,
   Anil
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1237 on: August 04, 2011, 08:17:10 AM »
“Sri Bhagavan describes
it as very easy, in Atma Vidya Kirtanam. But we, ordinary mortals find
it very difficult, because we do not know how to quieten the mind.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Making the mind quiescent is the purpose of all scriptures including Srimad Bhagavad Gita, all religions and all spiritual practices. Gita teaches that wherever and whenever mind wanders, it should, from there at that very moment, should be drawn back every time it strays outwards, and fixed in the Self. Mind wanders outside after the objects of desire only because it still believes that happiness comes from it. Sri Bhagwan says in ‘Who am I ?’ that mind can be made quiescent only through the enquiry ‘Who am I?’ There is no other adequate means. This is the one infallible method. I remember the famous statement that ‘though this enquiry is also a mental operation, it destroys all mental operations, including itself, just as the stick with which the funeral pyre is stirred is itself reduced to ashes after the pyre and corpses have been burnt’.

Sri Bhagwan says that the enquiry ‘Who am I?’ is the beginning and the end of the teachings of Vedanta. But in the ‘Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, page-348’, Sri Bhagwan says that knowledge of the Self and non-Self is the first fitness requirement for taking up Vedantic enquiry.
Sri Bhagwan : That means a knowledge that the Self is eternal and that the world is unreal. How to know this is the question. It is possible to know this by enquiry as to ‘Who am I?’ and what is the nature of my Self ? Usually this procedure is suggested at the beginning of the spiritual practice, but generally it does not carry conviction. So all sorts of other spiritual practices are resorted to and it is only ultimately, as a last resort, that the practiser takes to Self-enquiry.
                                                    P. 348, Letters from Sri Ramanasramam

There are many rivers. Some of them( a few only) flow straight. Some take-up serpentine course, yet others twist and zig-zag. But all of them finally merge in the ocean. SO ALSO, SAYS SRI BHAGWAN, ALL PATHS BECOME MERGED IN THE PATH OF SELF-ENQUIRY, JUST AS ALL LANGUAGES MERGE IN SILENCE. IT IS THE SPEECH OF THE SELF.

Dear sir, what can excel the ‘Direct Method’ as taught by Sri Bhagwan ? Sri Bhagwan has famously said that all other methods are practiced retaining the ego and therefore many doubts arise and the ultimate question still remains to be tackled in the end. Or may I say that the ‘tenth man’ in the story still remains elusive in the end ? THEREFORE, WHY NOT RAISE THE ULTIMATE QUESTION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING ?

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
   Anil       




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1238 on: August 04, 2011, 08:33:59 AM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Self Inquiry or Self surrender is the ultimate and only Sadhana.  For this one should first
be able to discriminate between Self and non-self and practice non attachment to non-Self
and Vairagya, towards the Self inquiry as a pear diver drowns himself into the water to take the
pearl.



Arunachala Siva.,

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1239 on: August 04, 2011, 03:49:30 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan in His prose translation of the ‘Vivekachudamani’ says that in order to be qualified for enquiry into the self, a man must have a powerful intellect and ability to seize the essential and reject the inessential. Moreover, he goes on to enumerate the four necessary qualifications as mentioned and enjoined in the scriptures and in the ‘Vivekachudamani’ itself, such as :
1.   Discrimination between the real and the unreal.
2.   Disinclination to enjoy the fruits of one’s actions either in this or in any further life.
3.   The six virtues of tranquillity, self-control, withdrawal, forbearance, faith, and concentration on the self.
4.   Intense yearning for liberation.

Though Sri Bhagwan enumerates thus and elsewhere He has even said that these qualifications are highly desirable, He lays emphasis on the first qualification, namely, discrimination between the Real and the unreal, as the prerequisite for taking up Self-enquiry.
“Of the four categories of practice the first is the knowledge of the Self and non-Self (Atma-Anatam Viveka). That means a knowledge that the Self is eternal (nitya) and the world is unreal (mithya). How to know this is the question. It is possible to know this through enquiry as to ‘Who am I?’ and what is the nature of the self ! “
                             P. 348, Letters from Sri Ramanasramam

Sri Bhagwan very significantly says that usually this procedure is suggested at the beginning of the spiritual practice itself, but it does not carry conviction and therefore other methods are taught only to ultimately merge in the Enquiry.

Therefore, from one single statement of Sri Bhagwan it is obvious that Self-enquiry as taught by Him is Itself capable of guiding a serious seeker on the Path. I myself deeply feel that one should not wait and try to cultivate and acquire these qualifications before one proceeds to take up Atma-Vichara.
We should remember that ‘I am’ is the means as well as the Goal. WITH EFFORT, IT IS PRACTICE, WHEN EFFORTLESS, IT IS THE REALISATION.
Besides, dear sir, I have deep faith in Sri Muruganar’s words which can undoubtedly be substantiated by one’s own experience.

“Those who have entered the excellent, straight and direct path, the jnana-vichara ‘Who am I?’, never get confused and lose their way. The reason is, this path is straight and direct, like the light of the sun. It will reveal its straightness to those who have embarked upon it.”
                                          V. 393, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

   


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1240 on: August 04, 2011, 05:19:04 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. If one pursues Self inquiry in all earnestness, the other pre-requisites
will automatically come to such an ardent sadhaka,

Talks No,. 29:

Q: Has the discrimination between reality and unrealitym [sat asat vicharana]
the efficacy in itself lead to  the revelation of the one perishable?

Bhagavan: As propounded by all and realized by all true seekers, fixity
in the supreme spirit [brahma nishta] alone can make us know and realize
it. It being of us, and in us, any amount of discrimination [vivechana] can
lead us only one step further, by making us renouncers, by goading us to
discard the seeming [abhasa] as transitory and to hold fast to the eternal
truth and presence alone.

Sri Ramana Gita: 1.4. & 1.10:

Question: Is mukti to be had by mere discrimination between the real and
the unreal or are there other means for ending of bondage?

Bhagavan: Abidance in the Self alone releases one from all bonds.
Discrimination between the real and the unreal leads to non attachment.



Arunachala Siva.         
 
   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1241 on: August 05, 2011, 08:15:29 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Scientists’ endeavour to measure the universe is futile. It is impossible. The ‘akasa’ is the counterpart of the mind and objects in the ‘akas’ are of thoughts in the mind. ‘Akasa’ and objects are mental creations. Sri Bhagwan says that attempt to measure them is akin to trying to stamp with one’s foot on the head of the shadow cast by oneself. The farther one moves, farther the shadow moves also.  Therefore, as one cannot plant one’s foot on the head of a shadow, so also, one cannot hope to measure the universe and the phenomena.

‘OBJECTIVE WORLD IS WITHIN THE SUBJECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS.’  The universe is only an object created by the mind. It has its existence in the mind only. It has its being in the mind only. The mother of the child trying to catch his own shadow, pitying him, takes hold of the young hand and keeps it on the head of the child’s head and tells him to observe the head of the shadow which is now caught in the hand of the child.  So also, the universe cannot be measured as an exterior entity, as an independent external object. Sri Bhagwan says that one must reach the Self in order to reach the universe.

“To know the vast length and breadth of consciousness, the depth of its base and the height of its summit, is alone the attainment of tranquillity. Outside of this tranquillity it is impossible for even gods to know in its entirety the state of consciousness.”
                                                                   V. 439, GVK< Edited by Sri David Godman.

Sri Muruganar comments that it is impossible to measure the universe, for consciousness exists transcending dimensional words, such as, breadth, length, depth and height. Therefore, only way to know the universe, and et al, is the Realisation of the self. And knowing Self only means the destruction of the mind in the Pure consciousness of the Self.

‘Apart from consciousness there is no world; apart from the consciousness there is no beloved jiva; apart from consciousness there is no grace-supreme; knowing consciousness is indeed the supreme truth.”
                                                                  V. 440, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Slowly but surely, the physical sciences and scientists are also gravitating towards and veering round to the ‘Knowing Consciousness’. Unless they reach the tenth man, that is unless they take in account the seer, they will either encounter a void or the shadow does moves farther.

Thank you,
  Anil

     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1242 on: August 05, 2011, 11:58:46 AM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan has said that the Consciousness is like Pure Space.
Pure Space [akasa] is containing all the four elements and extend
beyond. The capacity and the characters of the four elements cannot
even touch the Pure Space. Pure Space is untouched by these elements.
So also is the Consciousness or the Self.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1243 on: August 05, 2011, 02:51:35 PM »

“Sri Bhagavan has said that the Consciousness is like Pure Space.
Pure Space [akasa] is containing all the four elements and extend
beyond. The capacity and the characters of the four elements cannot
even touch the Pure Space. Pure Space is untouched by these elements.
So also is the Consciousness or the Self.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. Pure Space or akasa is akin to the Pure mind. Just as there are objects in the Pure Space there are thoughts in the Pure Mind. Pure Space is the counterpart of the Pure Mind and objects are of thoughts. Just as Space devoid of objects is the Pure Space, so the mind divested of thoughts is the Pure Mind which is verily the Being-Consciousness, the Self.
“Since being itself flourishes as consciousness, until the mind ceases completely, becoming itself pure being-consciousness, it will be impossible for the insignificant mind , which arises as the imaginary reflected consciousness, to encounter the reality, the non-dual consciousness.”
                                                                  V. 1001, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

The Pure space of Consciousness is the Heart, the Self, the Supreme Sun which neither rises nor sets, but Which ever Is. Being Itself is Consciousness. Therefore, Being-Consciousness is All That exists. When this Pure consciousness, or the Absolute Consciousness, or the Non-dual Consciousness, is associated with attributes, we have body consciousness, mind consciousness, self-consciousness, unconsciousness, sub-consciousness, super-consciousness, human-consciousness, animal consciousness and so on and so forth. Nevertheless, sri Bhagwan says that the unaltering common factor in all of them is the Consciousness. That is the self. That is the Reality. So, it follows that all other forms of consciousness are only the relative states of the One Absolute Consciousness. TIME AND SPACE APPEAR IN THE CONSCIOSNESS.

Dear sir, I am the Self, the Space of Pure consciousness. Sri Bhagwan says in Talks, no. 453 that when the Self identifies itself as the seer, it sees objects. Subjects and objects are creations in Pure Consciousness, in Pure ‘I’. When the error (dosha) of subject and object is removed, Space of Pure Consciousness or Pure ‘I’ alone will remain.         

Regards,
  Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1244 on: August 05, 2011, 08:43:18 PM »



Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan gives this in Who am I?  While explaining whether
everything done by human beings are god's work, Sri Bhagavan says
"No, human beings do work three fold and five fold as per the rules
of karma. Iswara is not a sankalpa rahita. who decides what to do.,
He is a Sankalpa Sahita. He is like Sun, in whose presence, simply
the lotus blooms, water dries up etc., He is also like the Space, untouched
by the other four elements.



Arunachala Siva..