Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 757034 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1170 on: July 19, 2011, 05:15:13 PM »
That is the state of the jnani. It is neither sleep nor waking but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the waking state and the stillness of the sleep. It is called jagrat-sushupti. Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or sleepless waking or wakeless sleep. It is not the same as sleep or waking separately. It is ‘atijagrat’ (jagrat of jagrat or beyond wakefulness) or ‘ati sushupti’ (sleep of sleep or beyond sleep). It is the state of perfect awareness and of perfect stillness combined. It lies between sleep and waking.
                                                                                  Talks, no. 609

Sri Bhagwan further says that the thoughts make all the difference between the stillness of sleep and turmoil of waking. Therefore, going to the root of the thought is to reach the stillness of sleep. Sri Bhagwan says that jagrat-sushupti is not dullness but It is Bliss. It is not transitory but is eternal.

Sri Bhagwan says in ‘Day by Day With Bhagwan’ that a Jnani’s ego has been killed and He does not indulge in sense activities with the notion that He is the doer. So, He is in sleep. At the same time He is not unconscious as in sleep but fully awake in the Self; so His state is sleepless. This is the Turiya state of the Self, on which as the screen passes the three states of waking, dream and sleep, leaving the screen unaffected.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1171 on: July 19, 2011, 05:54:43 PM »


Dear Anil.

Yes.  a Jnani in turiya state, has transcended the three states
of jagrat, swapna and sushupti.  His state cannot be understood
by the onlooker unless he attains that state.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1172 on: July 20, 2011, 08:55:15 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Therefore, ‘Turiya’ is our True State or Real Nature.  Because the waking, dream and sleep are called states, Turiya is also called the fourth state. But Sri Bhagwan says that Turiya is not a state but the real and natural state of the Self. Sri Bhagwan reveals and teaches that when the Self is realised, we know that it is not Turiya or the fourth state, for the fourth state is only relative, but it is Turiyatita.

Only if other three avasthas truly existed could the state of waking sleep [jagrat-sushupti], the pure state of jnana, be termed ‘the fourth state’. Because the other three states become false in the presence of turiya, you should know that turiya itself is the sole and transcendental state.
                                                                                       V. 039, BVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

In V. 938, Sri Muruganar says that the state of Turiya, which is abiding as the Self, the Pristine-Pure Being-Consciousness, is Itself the Non-dual  Atita [transcendental state]. Therefore, the Turiya that pervades as the unique Primal and Pure State after the three states are revealed to be mere appearance is Itself the ‘Turiyatita’ [The Transcendental State].

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil
                                                                             


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1173 on: July 20, 2011, 08:59:14 AM »
Contd from my post, re. 1207

Dear Devotees,

Devotees of Sri Bhagwan often argued that the world is a self-evident reality. Then what prevents the world from revealing itself to you in sleep ?, Sri Bhagwan asks. The questioner argued that if during his sleep he did not see the world, others who were not sleeping saw it.

This argument can be conclusively proved to be erroneous. I say that I exist while asleep. We do not deny our existence while asleep. Do we ? Well, we did not require the evidence of others to prove that we existed during sleep. And now while I am awake I am seeking the evidence of others to prove the reality of the world. Sri Bhagwan says that those ‘others’ can tell you of having seen the world (during your sleep) only when you yourself is awake. Therefore, how can the evidence of others of the state when you were sleeping be valid now when you have awakened from that sleep ? WE should not mix up the dream and the waking states. Why ? Because we seek corroboration of our waking state experiences from those in the waking state and not from those who are dreaming. Similarly, we must ask for corroboration for the dream experiences from those whom we saw in the dream in the dreaming state itself and now when we have awakened ! With regard to my own existence it is different. I know all along that I exist. Why ? Because that is the truth. We exist, ever. Sri Bhagwan’s famous lines : “ On waking up you say you had a sound sleep, so to that extent you are aware of yourself in the deepest sleep, whereas you have not the slightest notion of the world’s existence then. Even now I am telling that the world is real and not the world is telling so.
Sri Bhagwan says, “Well, then, that world, which you say is real, is really mocking at you for seeking to prove its reality while of your reality you are ignorant.”

THEREFORE, DEAR DEVOTEES, IS IT NOT REALLY RIDICULOUS TO SEEK TO PROVE THE REALITY OF THE WORLD WHILE WE DO NOT KNOW OUR OWN REALITY ?

“When, without seeing his real nature, the seer who is indispensible for the existence of the seen, perceives the world to be real, that perceived world, looking at the seer, ridicules him, laughs up its sleeve, and makes him feel ashamed.”
                                                           V. 635, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman     

Thank you,
  Anil       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1174 on: July 20, 2011, 11:41:36 AM »


Dear Anil,

Nice post. You have beautifully described what Sri Bhagavan has stated
about the three states.  Self inquiry is individualistic. We should analyze
our own waking , dream and deep sleep states and should not compare
the position of others.  It is for them to analyze and come to their own
conclusions if they want.

Sri Bhagavan used to state one story in this regard. Two men were
lying besides each other for sleeping. One man is still awake.  The
other man is sleeping and while sleeping, he dreams that his treasures
in the house are stolen by a thief. And he cries "Oh, thief, thief!  My
riches have been stolen."  Now what will the man who is still not asleep
do? Will he go to chase the thief? Will he go to the police station to
give a complaint?  He will only shake the dreaming man and wake him
up.  And then there is no thief, no theft, no chasing after the
thief and no police complaint.

In the same way, one should investigate his own state and not do
things comparing another man's state.



Arunachala Siva.     



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1175 on: July 20, 2011, 03:22:28 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. Sri Bhagwan also says that this imagined individual life, in the ephemeral and relative world, is also a long sleep in which one is dreaming of having three states of waking, sleeping and dreaming.

If someone is dreaming nightmares and asking for a sword in the dream, his awakened friend, lying beside him, is not supposed to give the dreaming friend a sword. Instead, he will nudge or shake him so that he is awakened and the terrible nightmares end for him. So also, The Guru, who is the Awakened One, will nudge and shake the devotees so that this long nightmare of a dream at long last comes to an end. He, the enlightened One who is All-knowing One, will not succumb to the piteous pleas and prayers of the devotees and grant fulfilment of this and that false and poisonous worldly desires.

Regards,
  Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1176 on: July 20, 2011, 04:31:08 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Saint Manikkavachagar's Tiru Embavai is a symblic poem of
waking up the friends and devotees from sleep of ignorance.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1177 on: July 21, 2011, 08:25:19 AM »
Contd.from my post, re. 1212

If the seer and the seen were two distinct beings, seeing would never be possible. As seeing is possible, both of them are the same being, and if seen properly, they will become one. See this truth for yourself.
                                      V. 639, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Just below this verse is cited a Verse from Padamalai, V. 2, P-278, as follows :
Sri Bhagwan: Regarding the world that is seen as different from the mind that sees it, and attributing an abundance of being to it, is illusion.

Dear Devotees,   

The seen is not different from the seer. Perceiver is not different from the perceived. Both, in fact, are the same. Therefore, without knowing the truth of the seer it is futile to seek to know the truth of the world. Sri Muruganar says in the V.635 of the GVK that the seer is indispensable for the existence of the seen. In deep sleep, there is no mind, there is no world, nothing. On waking, the mind rises and with it rises the world and everything else. Sri Bhagwan says in V.7,  Sat Darshanam, that though both the mind and the world rise together from, and merge in, the same Source,  the world is lighted by the mind only. Therefore, verily the world is the mind. In fact, the world is the gross form of the mind itself. In the cited verse above, Sri Muruganar says that if the seer and the seen have been two distinct beings, seeing would never have been possible. But, since seeing is possible, both of them are the same being. And if seen with the eye of Jnana, they become one.     

What does it all means ? It simply but conclusively means that if the seen or the world is regarded as an independent entity, independent of the world, it is unreal, mithya. In truth, both of them, seer as well as the seen do not exist at all like the snake in the rope does not exist at all. Sri Bhagwan says that what exists is the one Self, and not a seer and a seen. All is the Self.

Thank you,
  Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1178 on: July 21, 2011, 08:44:47 AM »
When, without seeing his real nature, the seer who is indispensable for the existence of the seen, perceives the world to be real, that perceived world, looking at the seer, ridicules him, laughs up its sleeve, and makes him feel ashamed.
                                                      V. 639, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Dear Devotees,

A disciple asked from Adiguru Sri Shakara: “Bhagwan ! If the Jagat is mithya, why is it so difficult for man to get rid of the bondage of the world ?”
Adiguru Sri Shankara  was holding a ‘kamandalu’ in His hand at that time. He answered thus : “ Son, right now, kamandalu’ is holding my hand. As soon as this ‘kamandalu’ leaves my hand, I would answer to your question.”  Well, the disciple was surprised. He said, “Bhagwan ! Why do you make fun of me ? The ‘kamandalu’ is within the hold of your hand. You can leave it the moment you so wish.” Sri Shankara smiled and spoke thus : “Son, this bondage of the ‘kamandalu’ is the merest illusion of the mind. I am bound with it so long as my mind accepts this bondage. The moment the spell of this illusion is broken, door to freedom or liberation is opened of its own accord.”

So also, says Sri Sankara, so long as man regards and accepts the world as real, he regards and accepts the bondage of the world also as real and feels to be bound. However, the moment his ‘viveka’ is awakened and wisdom dawns, the illusory and ephemeral nature of the world is clearly revealed to him and the bondage disappears that very moment.

Dear devotees, I read the above conversation in the ‘Akhand Jyoti’, May-2011. I found it relevant to this discussion and therefore I myself translated it into English from Hindi and decided to post so that you may also see it.

Dear Devotees, Sri Bhagwan also says in the V. 16 of the ‘Upadesa Saram’, “ drsya-varitam citta-matmanah, citva-darsanam tattva-darsanam” ,i.e. “If our mind is turned away from the objectivity or second and third person Objects and the all- important attention is turned solely to the first person ‘I’, we recognise that our own True Conscious Nature is the Vision of the Ultimate Reality”.   

Than you,
  Anil
       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1179 on: July 21, 2011, 10:41:00 AM »


Dear Anil.

Nice posts. The duality occurs only when the mind operates. When
this duality ceases, by turning the mind inward, and getting merged
in the Self, there is only non dual consciousness. No seen or sight
but only seer. Then everything is the Self, you see the Self everywhere.
This is also described by Sri Bhagavan in Verse 5 of Sri Arunachala
Pancharatnam.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1180 on: July 21, 2011, 06:27:20 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Muruganar asks, “Since consciousness is reality, in order to know reality why is it necessary to associate with the movements of the mind?”

Reality is the Consciousness ‘I am’. Therefore, associating with the movements of the mind in order to know the Reality ‘I am’ is indeed like chasing one’s own shadow, and not being One with That who knows.

What are the consequences ?
“Should you succumb to its spell and embrace it, alas, it will destroy your life by drowning you in the intoxication of the pride.”
                                                     V. 17, P. 140, Padamalai
“The demoness, the mind, is extremely adept at amorously caressing you with false pretences.”
                                                      V. 18, p.-140, Padamalai

Dear devotees, mind is extremely adept at poising as the most endearing entity and its pretences may take very subtle forms. So, Sri Muruganar’s words of caution :
“The impressions of the five senses that adhere to you are a monumental edifice created by the frenzied mind merely to ensure its own prosperous existence.”
                                                          V. 43, P. 152, Padamalai

Therefore, returning to the ‘Shade’ of the Consciousness,  ‘I am’, from the scorching mental heat, falsely created by the movement and reflection, is wisdom.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1181 on: July 21, 2011, 07:12:37 PM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan has said a few things about the mind depending upon
the maturity of devotees.

1. There is no mind at all.  It is a phantom.

2. Mind has no form. Thoughts are only its forms. The basic thought
is I-thought. If you investigate it, it will quell back into the Self.

3. Mind and prana are the branches of the same source. If prana
is controlled, mind gets quiescent. But this will not lead you to self
realization.

4. In deep sleep, only prana comes in and goes out. It is due to
Iswara's rule. But mind is quiescent excepting in dreams.

One can take any of these above explanations of Sri Bhagavan
depending upon one's comfort level and then proceed with inquiry.

Sri Bhagavan has also said, that the I thought is ego. He has dealt
with this ego, very nicely in Sad Darsanam verses 25 to 28.

Finally in Verse 40, He says if ego's form is destroyed once for all
one is realized.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1182 on: July 22, 2011, 07:04:19 AM »
Dear Devotees,

The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says ‘Aham nama abhavat’ [He became ‘I’ named]. Sri Bhagwan says in Talks. No. 518 that ‘Aham’ is not the same as the ‘ahamkriti’ or the ego. As we all know that ‘Aham’ is the Supreme Reality whereas the ‘ahamkriti’ is the ego. Sri Bhagwan says that the Supreme Being is unmanifest. The first sign of manifestation is the Aham Shpurana or the Light of ‘I’. Aham vriti is a broken experience whereas Aham Sphurana is the unbroken experience of the Light of the Self, ‘I’-‘I’.
He became ‘I’ named. So, ‘Aham’ or ‘I’ is the First and Original Name of the Reality. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘A’ is the first letter in Sanskrit and ‘Ha’ is the last letter. Therefore, ‘Aha’ includes everything from beginning to end. The word ‘Ayam’ also means that which exists, Self-shining and Self-evident. Aham, Ayam, Atma , etc. refer  to One Reality, i.e. the Self.

Be-ing is the Self. ‘I am’ is the Self. Sri Bhagwan says that your duty is to be and not to be this and that. Therefore, our duty is to seek the Self and abide as the Self. Of all the names of God none is as appropriate as the Biblical Statement “I am that I am”. Mahavakyas, such as ‘Tat Tvam Asi’, ‘Aham Brahmasmi’, ‘Soham’, ‘Sivoaham’ etc, are not as well put as the Biblical Statement. None of these Mahavakyas is as direct as the Name ‘Jehova’ which means ‘I am’.

So, Sri Muruganar Sings:
When the reality that is known as the Heart gradually emerges from the Heart and expands as consciousness, it takes many thousands of names. On Investigation, the foremost of these will be found to be “I”.
                                                                                                                             V. 712, GVK

Thank you,
     Anil
     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1183 on: July 22, 2011, 10:49:07 AM »
Dear Devotees,

The Self-Realised  Jnanis are said to owe their realisation to the Mahavakyas. I wish to say regarding this as follows :

Pratyabhijna is ‘Prati’ plus ‘abhijna’.
 ‘Abhijna’ is what is called ‘Direct Perception’.
What is the Direct Perception ?
“This is a computer” is Direct Perception.
Something is already known. There is something right now before us but I am not able to recognise it. Therefore, ‘pratyabhijna’ is to be reminded of what is already known.
For example: “This is that computer” is ‘pratyabhijna’. This computer is known, but I am not able to recognise it. So, I am reminded that this is that very computer which is known. 

Sri Bhagwan says that ‘pratyabhijna’ is used for realising the ever-present Self, the Reality, and recognising It. How ? When the seeker, enquiring, reaches the Heart and encounters the ‘Maha Sunya’ (Immense Void) , the Guru points out, “You are That”. AND THEN THE SEEKER EXPERIENCES HIS REAL IDENTITY AS THAT. This is how the Realised Ones are said to owe their Realisation to the Mahavakyas.

Proud I wandered being deluded
By the thoughtthat the body was “I”.
God Venkata said, “No, not that.
Ask ‘Who am I?’and when the fierce,
Proud ego dies, then what abides
As Being, “That you are.” Saying this
He made me his, nay, his own Self.
How did this miracle happen?
                                         V. 383, Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai
Thank you,
   Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1184 on: July 22, 2011, 04:55:10 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Pratyabijna is Atma Darsanam, the Perception of the Self.
But here Atma Darsanam is nothing but Atma Anubhuvam.
The sphurana that you had earlier mentioned.



Arunachala Siva.