Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 757054 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1140 on: July 14, 2011, 09:52:45 AM »


Dear Anil,

You have mentioned about Shantananda Puri.  I met this gentleman
[a sannyasi] in Tiruvannamalai, when I had been there on June 15th
to 17th, last month.  He is permitted by Asramam to stay in one of their
guesthouses almost permanently and take food also in Asramam.
He now stays in Room A1 of Korangu Thottam.  My wife and I met
him there on one of these three days.  He has authored Sri Ramana
Suprabhatam and this was first in Centenary of Advent Souvenir in
1996.  This has now come as a separate book and there is also a CD
musically rendering this Suprabhatam.  Sri Swami has also written
commentaries on Devi Kalottaram and Bhagavad Gita Saram of Sri
Bhagavan.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1141 on: July 14, 2011, 12:31:25 PM »

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for posting information about Swami Sri Shantananda Puri. I became very happy to learn that Swam Sri Puri stays in Sri Ramanasramam almost permanently. I hope to meet him when I next visit the Ashramam. I am aware and understand the importance of meeting a devotee of Sri Bhagwan like Swami Sri Puri.
Ji. Yes, I read Ramana Suprabhatam in the Centenary Souvenir. Certainly I have been benefitted by reading the beautiful verses of the Ramana Suprabhatam. Whenever I find certain verse relevant to the discussion, I cite it, for sublime poetry inspires me no end. I cited the verse mentioned by you from the Ramana Suprabhatam which I found aptly relevant to the current discussion and conveyed what I wished to express myself. I would certainly like to read some of his other works and compositions.

Dear sir, I made a query for you to answer in my post, re. 1169 on page-78. I hope you would respond to that query, for you alone, on the forum, can adequately explain it.

Regards,
   Anil       
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1142 on: July 14, 2011, 06:18:34 PM »


Dear Anil,

Suttarivu means only literally "the knowledge of pointing out". That is,
pointing to one someone, some object outside you. It is nothing but
objective consciousness.  So long as there is world for you, there
are people,. things, objects for pointing out,. For a Self realized person,
there is "no others" at  all. For him all that he sees is only the Self.
Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam Verse 5.

There was a Rishi who was travelling in a jungle. Some thieves beat
him and stole some petty belongings he had. Next day, the policeman
caught the thief and brought both the thief and the Rishi. The king
asked Rishi: Who beat you and stole your belongings?  The Rishi
said: It is Siva. The king then asked you: Who caught the thief and
brought you also here? The Rishi replied. It is the same Siva who caught
the thief Siva and broought me also. The king became puzzled.  Then
he asked: Who is questioning you now? The Rishi said: It is Siva who
is questioning me now.  The king could not understand anything and
then became his disciple.  For Rishi everything is Siva. There are "no
others".



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1143 on: July 14, 2011, 07:56:38 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes, I am fully satisfied. AS I said in re. 1169, from Sri Bhagwan’s Statements and Sri Muruganar’s Compositions, I understood that suttarivu must mean the objectified consciousness or the objective consciousness. However, I wanted to learn its literal meaning as well. “Knowledge of pointing out” will always mean pointing somebody, or some object outside of oneself. And this indeed is the objectified consciousness. Ji. Yes, I am very happy to learn the literal meaning of the word ‘suttarivu’, an important word indeed in Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching.

If the jiva remains without the suttarivu, in that state it will clearly see itself as the immaculate, pure swarupa, free from limitations.
                                                        Sri Bhagwan, Padamalai, p. 159

And Sri Muruganar :
The revelation of grace, which does not shine when viewed through suttarivu, shines when that suttarivu perishes. ‘When I stare hard at my beloved, she looks at the ground, but when I do not look at her, she looks at me and smiles gently.’
                                 V. 646, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Dear sir, many thanks again for the narration of the Rishi’s story who was travelling in a jungle. The Rishi is Siva, policeman is Siva, thief is Siva, the king is Siva. The story depicts the Sublime Truth so simply.

Regards,
   Anil   




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1144 on: July 15, 2011, 09:56:18 AM »
The glorious reality of the eternal Self is the unmoving background against which the interplay of the three eternal principles takes place. Directing the light of the ‘I’ upon them, I have found my proper place, remaining as the pure witness only.
                                                                           V. 145, Sri Ramana Anubhuti

Dear Devotees,

The three eternal principles may refer to both, i.e. gunas—rajas, tamas and sattva, or the triad—knower, known and knowledge. Sri Subramanian sir may say by looking into the ‘Original’ what did Sri Muruganar mean by the three eternal principles. But it does not make much of a difference for now. For, both need be done away with for once and all. Sri Muruganar says that by directing the light of ‘I’ upon them, he found his proper place. What is the proper place—remaining as the Pure Witness only. Here ‘Witness’ does not mean a subject witnesser and an object that is witnessed. But Sri Bhagwan says that by ‘Witness’, mere Presence should be understood.

LIGHT OF THE ‘I’ IS GRACE ITSELF. So, in my view, what Sri Muruganar says is that by remaining as mere Witness, free from thoughts, knowing the Self to be the background for the interplay of the gunas, or the triputi, he has reached his Ultimate Destination.

Thank you,
    Anil     
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1145 on: July 15, 2011, 10:15:38 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

You have mentioned in your post, vide re-1179, that there is a CD musically rendering Sri Ramana Suprabhatam. Besides, you have also mentioned that Swami Sri Puri has written commentaries on Devi Kalottram and Gita Saram. Dear sir, I wish to know in which language Suprabhatam has been rendered in a musical CD and in which language he has written his commentaries ? Are these available in the Ashram's Book-depot right now ?

Thank you, sir.
Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1146 on: July 15, 2011, 10:17:50 AM »
Dear Devotees,

We must understand that we exist even without the mind. We are the Self. Mind is mere movement in the Self. Mind means reflection, abhasa. Are we mere movement, or mere reflection, abhasa ?

In this misery-laden, relative and false world, one cannot escape calamities sometime or the other. Fate so connives that sometime or other false individual self finds itself shattered. Sometimes, one feels undone by the trial and tribulation of life—one is not able to fulfil even the genuine material needs. Desires would not cease to torment. They keep coming in hordes—desire for wealth, desire for fame, desire for company with the opposite sex, etc., etc. They would never end. Will they end when all one’s desires are satisfied ? Sri Bhagwan says that it is like pouring kerosene over the fire.

In truth, all are mere thoughts. What else are they ? Yes, relatively speaking, they appear real. But esoterically, are they real ? Having come to Sri Bhagwan, we understand that True Swarupa is Existence-Consciousness and Bliss. Yes, we can say that we do not know It yet. So what ? Our Reality is the Self. But I say or feel that I am afflicted. There is One Self. Hence, the Enquiry. “To whom all these afflictions ?” Who is afflicted after all ? Affliction is for ego-‘I’. Do we really know it ? No, not really. So, all these afflictions and desires pertain to the one who is unkown. The instrument of experience itself is faulty. Isn’t it? The camera itself is defective, how can the picture be true?
So, out of great Compassion for His loving and adoring devotees, Sri Bhagwan gave us a technique for sadhana  in the form of ‘Who Am I?’ and ‘Whence Am I’ questions to destroy for once and all the very root cause of all problems whatsoever—metal, physical, material, sexual, intellectual, philosophical, social, and last but not the least—SPIRITUAL.
Dear devotees, Vichara  as taught by Sri Bhagwan will effectively turn the attention from the second and third person to the first person and this attention of grace on the first person will flourish our knowledge about the True Existence.
Sri Muruganar sings that when the thought of the Self intensifies, all the vasanas will rise from the Heart and die completely.

Dear devotees, we in truth are not the doers. What is to happen will happen anyway. Sri Bhagwan is our Guru. We must have deep faith in His Teaching and pursue ‘Atma-Vichara’ as taught by Him and see for ourselves that in truth there is no one who is afflicted and overwhelmed with sorrows.

Sri Bhagwan assures:
The mind will subside only by means of enquiry ‘Who Am I ?’ The thought ‘Who Am I?’, destroying all other thoughts, will itself finally be destroyed like the stick used for stirring the funeral pyre. 
                                                          Who Am I ?, Essay Version

This is the only way to destroy the veiling, by shifting the attention from the second and third persons to the first person. By shifting the attention from the afflicting thoughts to the experiencer of them all. Mind, being movement, is certain to subside and finally get destroyed, leaving Blissful Swarupa alone. Perseverance with steady determination is the key.

Thank you,
  Anil





Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1147 on: July 15, 2011, 10:19:15 AM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. To remain as Witness without being ruffled, is the Jnana Experience.

Muruganar also says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 909:

O mind, through the power of your presence the components [of the non
Self] come together, interact closely and playfully dance. Without getting
ruffled, see them all as a mere Witness through Jnana Experience, the
Swarupam that transcends unattached to them.

Again in GVK Verse 943, Muruganar says:

Not brooding over what has happened in the past, not dreaming about what
is to be attained,  in the future, remaining a mere witness even to the
happenings that unfold in the present, and rejoicing in unassailable peace
-- this is the excellence of the state of granthi bheda.



Arunachala Siva.         

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1148 on: July 15, 2011, 02:54:32 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

O mind, through the power of your presence the components [of non-Self] come together, interact closely and playfully dance. Without getting internally ruffled, see them all as a mere witness through the jnana experience, the swarupa that transcends and remains unattached to them.
                                                V. 909, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

First, I must thank you for citing V. 909 and V. 943, of GVK. In my present predicament, these Verses are priceless for me.

Dear sir, the V. 909 is addressed to the ‘Power Of the Presence’, or the Pure Mind which is verily the Self. Is it not ? Through the ‘power of your presence’, components of non-Self, i.e., rajas, tamas, and sattva come together, interact and playfully dance. Much like the sun in the presence of which activities of the world go on. In my view, the Verse cautions,” See them all as a mere witness through the jnana experience”. See them, abiding in the Self, remaining unattached, allowing no movement  ( thought is a movement), no reflection, so that one remains undeluded and internally unruffled therein, as mere Witness.
Therefore, what does the Verse convey, in my view, is as follows :   
Let the three gunas, components of non-Self come together, interact with each other and let them act, play and dance according to their nature. They can do so through the ‘Power of the Self’, or in the ‘Power of the Presence’ only. I am not the non-Self. I am the Self. Therefore, by Enquiry, one should experience Jnana and abide in the Self and remain unattached, unruffled—AS THE TRANSCENDENT  JNANA-SWARUPA, AS MERE PRESENCE.

Regards,
  Anil     
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1149 on: July 15, 2011, 05:18:25 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Pure Mind is the temple of the Self. In fact, it is itself the Self.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1150 on: July 16, 2011, 09:35:17 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Some time back, you cited following lines from the Ramana Puranam:
“When the ‘I’-thought does not arise,
and I unite [as pure being] with him,
he remains merged with me
shining out as my very own fullness.
However, the very moment
I raise my head [thinking ‘I’],
to perceive his ancient form
he sees my oddness, scorns me,
and conceals himself from me.”

Dear sir, my understanding is as follows:
When there is no ‘I’-thought, I unite with Him and He remains merged with me shining as my own Swarupa as Pure Existence-Consciousness.   However, the very moment the thinker or the seer emerges from Him to see the form, I move away from the Pure Being. This movement is alien to my True nature, and seeing this oddness , He is alienated. Suttarivu drowns me in in thoughts and concepts and He conceals Himself from me.

However, Sri Bhagwan further enlightens thus:
“ if I then bow my head and die,
He flourishes within me,
shining his light as before.
Thus, the majesty of the Lord
will shine forth
only before the ‘I’ arises,
and after the ‘I’ subsides.
Who, then, will have the power
to tell of his greatness,
which can only be known
through the God-consciousness
in which the ‘I’ is absent,
and through the awareness
in which the ‘I’ is experienced.
                                   From Sri Ramana Puranam

So, latent mind will emerge again, dead mind will not. Sri Bhagwan teaches through the Verse that the Swarupa is that in which there is absolutely no ‘I’-thought. So long as there is the ego or the thinker, Lord will not shine forth. The Verse also teaches that God can be known only when one merges with the Consciousness of God and not through the suttarivu, or the objectified consciousness in which an individual ‘I’ is experienced. Therefore, objectified consciousness of the individual ‘I’ must merge with the Pure Existence-Consciousness of the Lord so that Swarupa shines forth of Its own accord.
Like the ghata akasa, when it merges with the Maha Akasa; Maha Akasa alone remains. Akasa of the ghata is simply devoured by the Maha Akasa. So also, the limited, petty and objectified consciousness of the so called knower, or the thinker, the seer, will be devoured by the God-Consciousness. Individual-I, or ‘I’-thought, will simply evaporate, being mere imagination. The Pure Consciousness that now pervades everybody, everything, all that is, is the God-Consciousness alone.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that It is not an indolent state of inertia but the Sacchidananda Himself dancing in the Heart. Therefore, reaching the Heart by the method as suggested by Sri Bhagwan and discovering for ourselves that Pure Consciousness  ‘I  Am’ is the only Reality and ‘I am body’ or for that matter ‘I am anything else’ is a mere imagined superimposition on that Reality. 

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
   Anil   

   

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1151 on: July 16, 2011, 10:54:37 AM »


Dear Anil,

 In Sri Ramana Puranam,  Muruganar does not indicate latent mind
and dead mind  What he says is:  If abidance in the Self is not permanent,
the ego will rise now and then.  If the abidance is permanent, the ego
is destroyed completely.  For many sadhaks the abidance is not complete.
Once in a while the ego rises its ugly head.  Permanent abidance
happens once for all,  only through practice. And being in the company
of Sages.

Sri Bhagavan's case is different. Just in one death experience, which
is really a Self-hood experience, the mind / the ego have been completely
destroyed.  The ego never rose again.  Only it was so destined that He
had to come to Arunachala, because He had not seen Arunachala. He
came to Arunachala after about 6 weeks of the experience, and He describes
His state in Arunachala Ashtakam Verse 2:

KaNdavan evan enak karuthinuL naadak
KaNdavan inRida ninRathu kaNden.....

Enquiring within "Who is the seer?" I saw the seer disappearing and
That alone which stands for ever. No thought arose to say, "I saw".
How then could the thought arise to say, "I did not see?" Who has the
power to explain all this in words, when even You, as Sri Dakshinamurti
conveyed this of yore in Silence only? And in order to reveal by Silence,
Your state transcendent, now You stand here, a Hill resplendent soaring
to the sky.

Achalama viLangida ninRaai.... that is Arunachala stood as non moving
Brahman.  There is no seer, no seen, no sight, only He remains, after
my ego is completely lost.



Arunachala Siva.             

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1152 on: July 16, 2011, 01:49:25 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,


If abidance in the Self is not permanent, this signifies that the mind is not yet dead, for dead mind can never emerge again. I did not use the term ‘latent mind’ in the sense of ‘manolaya’ or ‘layagatam brought about by such practices as ‘pranayam’, etc. In this context, Sri Bhagwan’s narration of a story of the yogi, practicing concentration on the banks of the holy river Ganges, is well known. If abidance in the Self is permanent, ego will not rise again. Mind is dead for once and all. However, if the abidance is not permanent, ego will certainly rise again due to pull of the vasanas. This signifies that mind is not yet dead but remains still or latent for the time being only during which it remains merged into the Self. Bucket is sunk into the well but rope is still joined with the bucket. Therefore, although Sri Muruganar has not used the term ‘dead mind’ and the ‘latent mind’ in the cited Verse above, however, by permanent abidance and temporary abidance, in the Self, in my view, he means the same.

Dear sir, ‘dead mind’ is a special feature in Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching. Manolaya or temporary lullness of the mind is an obstacle to further progress. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan teaches that the moment one experiences such stillness, one should at once revive the consciousness and continue the Enquiry till the mind is irreversibly destroyed.

“Layagatam punarbhavati no mrtam”

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1153 on: July 16, 2011, 01:58:14 PM »


Dear Anil,

I agree with this clarification.  Manolyam is a state of stupor, where
the mind is subdued but not killed.  This will not confer self realization.
There was one lady by name Jatini Sundarambal who came to Sri
Bhagavan and she had the same problem.  Sri Bhagavan advised
her against this method and asked her to go for giri pradakshina,
turn the mind outwards and then do self enquiry for permanent abidance
in the Self. This Sundarambal thanked Sri Bhagavan for this great
advice and blessings.



Arunachala Siva.
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1154 on: July 16, 2011, 02:24:19 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir.I have learnt many, many, things from you. And there have been occasions during this discussion when I deeply felt that the Sadguru Himself spoke through you to clear some of my blurred spiritual understanding. I shall ever remain indebted to you for your kind and patient bearing with me.

Dear sir, I wish to say that if the Enquiry is persisted with steady determination and perseverance, the mind is certain to be merged in the Source in the Heart. And when the mind remains so merged, it is destroyed. The idea that the mind is a separate entity ceases. It then functions as the Power of the Self, as a Pure Reflection of the Consciousness. The impure mind which is 'I'-thought along with other associated thoughts will be destroyed irreversibly. Sri Bhawan says that this alone is the highest 'Tapas'. This is the culmination of the sadhana.

Regards,
  Anil