Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759323 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1080 on: July 01, 2011, 12:10:08 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. It is the Sadguru, who directs you to the first person away from
the second and third persons.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1081 on: July 01, 2011, 05:24:43 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Senses, mind, and intellect are mighty and have become so accustomed to the second and the third persons down the ages that it is indeed very hard to subdue them without the Grace of the Sadguru. It is the Sadguru alone who directs us from the second and third persons to the first persons. But Sri Bhagwan says, "That Sadguru is within you".

"True, Grace is needed; Love is added.
  Bliss wells up."

Thank you so much, sir.

  Regards,
     Anil

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1082 on: July 01, 2011, 07:13:05 PM »
Dear eranilkumarsinha,

My understanding is that Self does not realize anything. Self does not need any realization. Self only knows itself and nothing else.
It is the mind that realizes its insignificance and gives way to God. Which always was, is and will be. Confusion is for the mind, not for the Self. Was Self affected while mind was turned outward and rampant? No. Did Self change because mind gave up? No.

If a man comes to this path and takes up practice - this alone must be recognized as Grace in work. If man wants to pray to God - this is Grace. etc.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1083 on: July 02, 2011, 06:33:25 AM »
Dear Sri amiatall,

Yes. You are right. The Self is not something of which knowledge or ignorance can be predicated. It is beyond knowledge and ignorance. Sri Bhagwan says in ‘ The Day by day’ that the Self is the Self ; that is all that can be said of it.
Sri Sadhu Om very significantly writes in his ‘The Path of Sri Ramana, Part-1’ that “Since Self-attention is not a doing (kriya), it is not an action (karma). That is, Self alone realises Self; the ego does not !”
I try to explain it as follows :
Sri Bhagwan : The mind free from thoughts is the Self. The pure mind is beyond the impure mind.
                                                                                                  (Talk-317
Sri Bahgwan : Some say that mind arises from consciousness followed by reflection (abhasa); others say that the abhasa (reflection) arises first followed by the mind. In fact both are simultaneous.
                                                                                                      (Talk-68)
 Now, Sri Sadhu Om says that the Self-attention is not a doing, but being. What happens ? Sri Bhagwan says that the Pure mind, which in fact is Absolute Consciousness, after its rise, in association with reflection, attends to the second and third persons  ( the body and the world) only, and is contaminated and becomes the impure mind or simply the mind as it is generally known. In Self-attention, attention is directed solely to the first person, to the I-feeling alone. There need be no rise of the mind and reflection, for you cannot admit of two selves in you. Can you ? Therefore, the Self-attention is being rather than doing. So, Sri Sadhu Om very rightly writes that the Self alone realises the Self. Ego-mind does not as you also said.

Dear Sri amiatall, I am happy that you said this. Sri Bhagwan says that the Self cannot be apprehended by the impure mind but can be apprehended by the Pure mind. Its State of Union with the Brahman is its apprehension of Brahman.

Thank you so much, sir, for your response.
Anil       


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1084 on: July 02, 2011, 07:03:58 AM »
 Dear Devotees,

The Verse 3.42 and the Verse 3.43 of the ‘Srimad Bhagavad Gita’ deals with the controlling of the senses and are regarded as of paramount importance for the seeker, from the practice point of view. These two important Verses of the Gita have also been included by Sri Bhagwan in ‘The Song Celestial’, quintessence of the Great Scripture.

The said Verse are cited along with the Verse no. 3.41 as follows :

“Therefore, O scion of the Bharata race, controlling the senses at the beginning itself, slay this foul enemy which obstructs Jnana and Realisation.”
                                                                                       V. 3.41, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

“The senses are mighty, they say. Superior to the senses is the mind, and superior even to the mind is the intellect. What is superior even to the intellect is He, the Self.”
                                 V. 3. 42, Srimad Bhagavad Gita, V. No. 22, The Song Celestial

“Thus knowing Him who is beyond the intellect, O mighty in arms, control yourself ( apperent lower self) by the Self and slay the enemy in the form of desire, hard though it may be.”
                                V. 3. 43, Srimad Bhagavad Gita, V. No. 23, The Song Celestial

Verse 41 says that one should control the senses in the beginning itself especially passions like lust and anger, for what repression can do if they are allowed to gather force ? Then no control will be possible.

The senses, the mind,  the intellect and the Self are the four layers of the human personality. The Self which is the Ultimate Foundation is Pure Sat-Chit, Existence-Consciousness and is mere Witness of the other three layers. This alone is the Sentient and Conscious Entity, other three are insentient and are merely the instruments of objective knowledge. They are, in fact alien to ‘Real Us’.  The Verse 3.42 says that ‘We’, the Real One, are far superior to these instruments, the senses, the mind and the intellect. We are above them all. When the light of the Consciousness percolates through them that only they appear to be sentient and the living entitites. Therefore, it is inexplicable sheer ignorance that we are content with these mere insentient instruments and instead do not try to know the Self that we truly are. A man’s life has no abiding value other than making it a means to realise the Self.  ‘FOR WHAT USE IT WILL BE IF WE GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD BUT LOSE OUR SOUL ?’

Desire pertains to non-Self. We must become aware of this truth by discrimination. The V. 43 says that desire is the fierce enemy of the man  though they take myriad forms and mind is unable to resist them. And once mind is drawn and develops attachment,  the Lord of the Gita says that it is hard to curb and conquer  them.
YES, DESIRE, ONCE IT GATHERS FORCE, IS HARD TO CONQUER EVEN BY THE MOST COMPETENT OF ASPIRANTS. SO, THE LORD SAYS THAT DESIRE SHOULD BE SLAIN BY ATTENTION TO AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE SELF. OTHERWISE, IT IS HARD TO KILL THE TOUGH ENEMY THAT IS CALLED DESIRE.

Thank you,
     Anil               

“                               .

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1085 on: July 02, 2011, 12:33:57 PM »


Dear Anil,

Saiva Siddhantis call it as Suddha Manas. Suddha Manas is Sivam -
they say.  Muruganar has also used this term Suddha Manas.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1086 on: July 02, 2011, 04:32:38 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sudha mind, sattvic mind and pure mind are all the same.

Sri Bhagwan says that Sattvic mind is surmised of the Jnanis and Ishwara as a concession in argument. Otherwise, ajnanis  argue, “ how does a Jnani live and act ?”

Sri Bhagwan quoting  ‘Yoga Vasishtha’ says in Talk-513 that a Jnani’s manas is said to be unchanging sudha manas. It also says that Brahman is no other than the Jnani’s mind. So, Brahman is sudha manas only.
WILL THE DESCRIPTION OF BRAHMAN AS SAT-CHIT-ANANDA IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE STATEMENT THAT ‘BRAHMAN IS SUDHA MANAS ONLY ?
 Sri Bhagwan : If sudha manas is admitted, the Bliss experienced by the jnani must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the jivanmukti state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection ? Pure akasa. Similarly, the jnani’s reflected Bliss represents only the true Bliss. ( Talk-513)
  Sri Bhagwan says that these are only words. It is enough to become inward-bent. The mind turned inwards is the Self; turned outwards, it becomes ego and the world.
Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1087 on: July 02, 2011, 04:57:50 PM »


Dear Anil,

Suddha Manas or Sattvic Mind or Pure Mind of a Jnani where there is no raga-devsha, is like
a spotless mirror. It reflects the devotees' emotions as they are. When Echammal lost her
foster daughter and brought the young baby, [born at the time of delivery in which the foster
daughter died], and cried bitterly and uncontrollably, and also placed the little baby on Sri
Bhagavan's lap, Sri Bhagavan also cried bitterly for a long time.  A Self Realized Jnani cries
for others' tribulations and He has no tribulations in life.

Similarly when aviyal and kanji were  prepared for a break fast in the Asramam, Sri Bhagavan
'enjoyed' the avial + kanji combination that He took second and third helpings!  He had transcended the taste long time back,  Why then He specially enjoyed avial +, kanji? Because
all the devotees enjoyed the novel breakfast and they took them to their hearts' content!
Sri Bhagavan just reflected these emotions, without any emotions of His own.



Arunachala Siva.    .     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1088 on: July 03, 2011, 08:12:15 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan is God Himself and therefore He is ocean of Grace, full of nectar, full of compassion and full of love. When Sri Bhagwan wept uncontrollably for a long time, it is manifestation of His Love and compassion in FULNESS.

You  have written in your post, “A Self Realised Jnani cries for others’ tribulations and He has no tribulation in life”. But there was no one ‘other’ for Him while He was in the body and there is no one other for Him when He is without the body now. For, there is no mental movement in Him to attend to second and third persons. In Fullness of Love and Compassion there is no other. When Love is full, there is no movement of mind in the form of others, Love is Non-dual, Unbroken Oneness, the Self Itself, Existence, Sat-Chit-Ananda.

Therefore, Fullness of Love is Abidance in the Self, as the Love Itself. When It moves, it is swerving of the mind away from the Self to second and third persons, the others; Unitary Love is fragmented and therefore it is desire. So, Love for other objects is movement and is therefore fragmented. Fragmented love is desire rather than True Love. True Love is Existence-Consciousness-Bliss.

Therefore, sir, what I wish to convey is that Bhagwan’s Weeping was spontaneous, Manifestation of Pure Love and Compassion. But It is not for others. There is no other for Him. It is for ONE—and therefore for all.

Thank you so much sir.
Regards,
  Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1089 on: July 03, 2011, 08:17:43 AM »
Those ignorant people who are itching with the desire for this illusory life are whirling in the life of the cremation ground.
                                                    Padamalai

Devotee: How am I to deal with my passions? Check them or satisfy them? If I follow Bhagwan’s method and ask, ’To whom are these passions?’ they do not seem to die but grow stronger.
Sri Bhagwan : That only shows you are not going about my method properly. The right way is to find the root of all passions, the source whence they proceed, and get rid of them. If you check the passions, they may get suppressed for the moment, but will appear again. If you satisfy them, they will be satisfied only for the moment and will again crave satisfaction. Satisfying desires and thereby trying to root them out is like trying to quench fire by pouring kerosene over it. The only way is to find the root of desire and thus remove it.
                                                        Day by day with Bhagwan, 2nd January, 1946   

Dear Devotees,

Mind’s tendencies to indulge in sense perceptions have been recurring down from birth after birth and therefore would not easily go away. When one now sits for meditation, thoughts are sure to rise in countless numbers like the waves of an ocean. What are thoughts and why they rise in the first place ? Nature of thoughts that rise in the mind thus is dependent upon the accumulated vasanas only. It may appear to some well nigh impossible to destroy all vasanas and remain as the Self.  Sri Bhagwan says that when Self-attention becomes intense and goes deeper and deeper, vasanas will go on perishing. To the extent vasanas are destroyed and to that extent to which the mind dives, as a consequence of destruction of the vasanas, in the Heart, to that extent one experiences the bliss.  There is no doubt about it. So, Sri Bhagwan says that without giving room for doubt, one should persistently and tightly hold on to the meditation on the Self, one’s Real Nature. Vasanas will themselves be destroyed if only we remain as we are.

Vasanas which are nothing but the habits of the mind are obstacles to Realisation.
Vasanas can be totally rooted out only by realising the Self.
This appears a vicious circle. Does it not?

Sri Bhagwan says compassionately that it is all ego-mind’s creations. It alone first creates obstacles and then suffers from the perplexity of the apparent paredoxes.
Sri Bhagwan says that this paradox is apparent. So Sri Bhagwan says in clear words that the only way is to find the root of thoughts, desire and vasanas. All these pertain to ego-‘I’ only.  What is this ego-‘I’ ? ‘I’ seeks “I”  and at the end of sadhana shines as “I”. There are not two “I”s. Appears paradoxical. Does it not? All these are the tricks that the enemy-mind plays. Beware and do not allow the mind to topple us once again. Pursue the enquiry whole-heartedly as taught by Sri Bhagwan and all paradoxes are sure to disappear.

Thank you,
  Anil 
 
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1090 on: July 03, 2011, 12:44:18 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. There are no ' others' for a Jnani.  However a Jnani
"acts" for the sake of such 'others'.  He has described
this in Verse 27 of ULLadu Narpadu, Supplement.

For a Jnani  there is not even I. Where is he or she
or this and that? 



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1091 on: July 03, 2011, 03:40:37 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. from the stand-point of ignorance and the ignorant, even a Perfect Jnani like Sri Bhaggwan may appear to be weeping for 'others'. But from the stand-point of wisdom and the wise, there is no 'other'. All is He only.

Dear sir, books mention that Sri Bhagwan wept and sobbed uncontrollably whenever He narrated a story of deep love and devotion. How do you see that ?

Thank you so much foe a nice post, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1092 on: July 03, 2011, 05:26:29 PM »


Dear Anil,

There, in such contexts, the 'feelings' of Sri Bhagavan
were displayed because He identified Himself with those
characters, say Manikkavachagar, Tiru Jnana Sambandhar,
Avvaiyar, Namadev etc.,  Here again all these persons
are self-realized and there was only one Self.  So Sri
Bhagavan, the Self and the characters, the Self are only
one.



Arunachala Siva.
realized
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1093 on: July 04, 2011, 08:27:58 AM »
No form he has, no name, no quality !
Still, there beside the holy Hill he dwells
In human form, known by the comely name of
Love, with moist eyes showering grace for all
To see. The ethereal Being whose brightness burns
To I-less nothingness obnoxious me
   V. 180, Sri Ramana Deva Malai, cited here from ‘Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai’

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. I understand that Sri Bahgwan so completely identified with those characters while narrating the story. The cited Verse above says that he was known by the comely name of ‘Love’ who with moist eyes showered Grace on all.

Dear sir, the V. 1106 of the GVK  which you cited earlier clearly explains that the ignorant who approach a Jnani, not knowing His True State, are likely to be mistaken seeing Him speaking,  acting etc. like an himself. The Verse says that the Pure mind of a Jnani exists and shines as the mere PRESENCE (Witness). It only reflects the defective thoughts of the ignorant ones who come to Him, making even Him appear to be defective. OBNOXIOUS ME !
Regards,
  Anil


                                                 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1094 on: July 04, 2011, 08:30:37 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Kavyakantha Sri Ganapati Muni once argued with Sri Bhagwan that the brain was the seat of the vasanas.  Sri Muni argued that since the brain consists of innumerable cells and vasanas are contained in those cells and are illuminated by the Light of the Self from the Heart. Sri Bhagwan says that it cannot be so.

Sri Bhagwan reveals : Were the vasanas in the brain instead of in the Heart they must be extinguished id the head is cut off so that reincarnations will be at an end.But it is not so. The Self obviously safeguards the vasanas in its closest proximity, i.e., within itself in the Heart, just as a miser keeps his most valued possessions with himself and never out of contact. Hence the place where the vasanas are, is the Self, i.e., the Heart. , and not the brain.
THEREFORE, THE BRAIN IS ONLY THE THEATRE FOR THE PALY OF THE VASANAS FROM THE GREENHOUSE OF THE HEART.
                                                             Talk—402
                                     
So, the vasanas must be where the Self is and never remain away form one’s Self. It is logical to argue that since the Heart is the Seat of the Self, vasanas must be contained in the brain illuminated by the Light of the Self from the Heart. Sri Bhagwan enlightens that if that would have been the case, the head would not bend down when one falls asleep.  A person does not touch the head and say ‘I’. Rather, even a naïve person intuitively touches his right chest and says ‘I’. Thus he indicates the Spiritual Heart and not the brain as the Source of his individuality. Therefore, it follows that the Self is in the Heart along with vasanas in an exceedingly subtle form.
Vasanas are projected from the Heart associated with the Light of the Self and thinking and subject-object duality are the terrible consequences. What happens is as follows:

When a vasana in an exceedingly subtle form is released and projected from the Heart, it is associated with the Light of the Self. During its passage from the Heart to the brain, it grows and magnifies more and more until it holds the field all alone, keeping all the other vasanas in abeyance for the time being. Sri Bhagwan says that when the thought is reflected in this manner from the brain, it appears exactly like an image on a screen. And then the man is said to have a clear perception of things. (To continue)

Thank you,
    Anil