Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758488 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1050 on: June 25, 2011, 04:39:22 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. I have  been maintaining only this Teaching all along. Sri Bhagwan has taught us to bathe even in the roaring sea. he has taught us how to duck when waves come. He taught that if one waits for the waves to subside, he will never bathe.Therefore, why wait for all vasanas to be reased ? Vichara is very powerful. It Itself is capable of erasing them from the root itself. We should incalcate Absolute Faith in the Power of Meditation on the Self and Vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan

Regards,
   Anil
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1051 on: June 25, 2011, 04:40:37 PM »
Dear Devotees,

The ‘I’ is an indubitable entity without which we cannot do without. We are also aware that countless thoughts issue forth from within. This implies that there must be an inner source from where thoughts, feeling, emotions, etc. keep on rising. It is also obvious that ‘I’ exists in all states of the mind—waking, sleep, and dream. Of course, we are not conscious of the body, mind and the world in deep sleep. But that does not mean, as Sri Bhagwan reminds, we cease to exist during the state of the deep sleep. On the contrary, it implies that the body, mind and the world does not have anything to with ‘I’, for ‘I’ exists even without them. So, Sri Bhagwan repeatedly reminds us that these three states have nothing to do with the ‘I’.

Therefore, the ‘I’ is ever the ‘I’-consciousness which subsists during all the three states of the mind. If we are not aware of ‘I’ in deep sleep, it is because we are not fully aware of it while awake. For, ‘I’ with fullest self-awareness is the True Self, Eternal Reality.

THE EXISTENCE OF THE SYSTEM OF FORMS IS OF THE SELF SUPREME ‘I’, BY THE SELF SUPREME ‘I’, AND FOR THE SELF SUPREME ‘I’.

What is our knowledge of Arts, Science, Engineering and commerce, we so proudly boast of ? In Truth, all are ignorance. Because all such knowledge presupposes body, mind and other non-Self as real. So, naturally. It is hard for the exponents of such knowledge to accept at once the Teaching of Sri Bhagwan which teaches that the body, mind and the world are illusory. How can mind which have been perpetually fed on intellect, feeling and volition accept that?

Yes. I concede that for many people it would be hard indeed to accept outright a teaching which teaches that the Self-knowledge alone is the True Knowledge and all other knowledge on which seemingly all our and the world’s activities depend is false, mithya.

Whether we accept or do not accept the Plain Truth as taught by Sri Bhagwan, we at least must understand that unless we know the truth about ourselves, we cannot know the truth about the life that we lead and truth about the world in which we live.

Thank you,
    Anil     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1052 on: June 26, 2011, 08:00:32 AM »


DearAnil,

Yes.  All the worldly knowledge on science, arts, commerce, medicine etc.,
are nothing when compared to the knowledge of the Self. Swami Rajeswarananda,
who was in Ramakrishna Math, Paris, was also a devotee of Sri Bhagavan. Whenever in India, he used to visit Sri Bhagavan. Swami had quite a good  amount of scientific knowledge, like the [then latest] Einstein's theory relativity
etc.,  Sri Bhagavan discussed with him the theory of relativity, without even
reading a book on that subject!  Swami was astonished.

Then Sri Bhagavan said: When once the Self is known, what is there to learn?
{In other words, all knowledge comes of its own accord to the realizer.].
He quoted Atma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 3:

Of what avail is knowing things
Other than the Self? And the Self being known,
What other thing is there to know?
That one light that shines as many selves,
Seeing this Self within
As Awareness' lightning flash;
The play of Grace; the ego's death;
The blossoming of Bliss.

Sri Adi Sankara when he was in debated, was asked to to stitching of a torn
shoe by a debator. He then called for the torn shoe, needle and thread and
the base stone. He took the needle and then the thread and he rolled the thread
on his nose {!} and then started the stitching. The thread with nose's sweat becomes sharper and pointed for it to enter the needle. Sri Sankara did exactly that, like a typical cobbler!  How did he know? The debator became astonished and  then called him a Sarvajna - an all knowing person. Because Sankara had realized  the Self, all knowledge came on its own!



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1053 on: June 26, 2011, 08:47:18 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much, sir, for a very nice and meaningful post. Sri Shankara's stitching story is qite an education.

Verse-3 of the Atma Vidya Kirtanam reveals the Plain Truth as well as the Sublime Teaching:

Plain Truth:
"Of what avail is knowing things
Other than the Self? And the Self being known,
What other thing is there to know?
That one light that shines as many selves."

Meaning that when the Self Itself is known, everything else is known of its own accord, for everything else is verily the Self.

Sublime Teaching:
"Seeing this Self within
As Awareness' lightning fash;
The play of Grace; the ego's death;
The blossoming of Bliss."

When one reaches the Heart by Enquiry and dies, the Self reveals Itself as the lightning flash of Awareness. This is all the play of Grace. MAKES AWARE OF THE ENQUIRY, THEN ONLY EGO DIES, AND BLISS BLOSSOMS.

Thank you once again, sir.

Regards,
  Anil
 



   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1054 on: June 26, 2011, 08:49:23 AM »
Devotee :  Are only important events in a man’s life , such as his main occupation or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts in his life, such as taking up a cup of water or moving from one place in the room to another, also predetermined ?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes, everything is predetermined.
Devotee : Then what responsibility, what free will has man ?
Sri Bhagwan : What for then does the body come into existence ? It is designed for doing various things marked out for execution in this life. The whole programme is chalked out. Not an atom moves except by His Will. As for freedom for man, he is always free not to identify himself with the body and not to be affected by the pleasures or pains consequent on the body’s activities.
                                                                  Day by Day with Bhagwan, p-91, 92

Sri Bahgwan says that the body, its activities, and pleasures and pains consequent upon the body-mind’s thoughts and actions, are under the prarabdha. We can do nothing about it. The whole programme is chalked out. Not an atom moves except by His Will. So, the work meant to be done by us will be done anyway. The great warrior Sri Arjuna had to kill his dear ones whether he wished it or not though the Great Lord Himself was his Charioteer.

But the body and the mind we are not. Upon the cessation of the false imagination that we are the miniscule, fleshy limited creatures, We are Pure Awareness, the Absolute Joy. Therefore, when on the PATH, why this fuss about the body ? Why this fascination for the body and experiencing falsely the pleasures and pains consequent upon the body’s activities ?
If only we realise our true nature and know that is not us who do any work, we will remain unaffected by the consequences of the work assigned for the body to do by the prarabdha or destiny. Whatever the Divine Plan, we, as the Self, are always free, and Sri Bhagwan says that there is no limitation of that freedom.

Thank you,
    Anil     

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1055 on: June 26, 2011, 02:02:22 PM »


Dear Anil,

Everything is pre detemined.  There is no free will. But this is for only those who have not discriminated and found out that the Self is the source of both.  Sri Bhagavan says in His ULLadu Narpadu - Verse 19.  Those who have realized the Self have transcended both destiny and free will.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1056 on: June 26, 2011, 04:10:11 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says that the free-will holds association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long there is free-will, so long as body lasts so long is the free-will.. But wisdom transcends both. For, Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance.

Free-Will appears to individuals, to the limited faculty of sight and will. It appears that we are free to do what we like though everything is predetermined, an atom does not move except by His Will. So, naturally the question arises whether the Omniscience and Omnipotence of God is consistent with ego’s free-will . Or, in other words, is the God’s Will consistent with individual’s free will?

Sri Bhagwan reveals that the ‘free-will  is the present appearing to the limited faculty of sight and will  of the ego.  The same ego sees its past activities falling into a course of ‘law’ or rules—its own free will being one of the links in that course of law.' (Talk-28)
   
THEN IT IS SEEN BY THE EGO THAT OMNISCIENCE AND OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD HAVE ACTED THROUGH THE APPEARNCE OF HIS OWN FREE-WILL ! Sri Bhagwan says that thus the ego comes to conclusion that ego must go by appearances.

So, what are natural laws ?
 Sri Bhagwan says that Natural Laws are manifestation of God’s Will and they have been laid down.

Therefore, I wish to say that there is no free-will as such for the individuals, as you also so significantly said. Destiny and free-will pertain to the body-mind. Body-mind suffers. Sometime suffers a lot. He feels helpless. Complains to Sri Bhagwan sitting in His Heart. Sri Bhagwan asks, ‘Why are you concerned with the body’s suffering and pains ? Are you the body ? Therefore, he exercises free-will bestowed compassionately by Him for this very purpose.  HE REFUSES TO IDENTIFY WITH THE BODY’S SUFFERING. Sri Bhagwan says you are not the body.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1057 on: June 26, 2011, 05:10:25 PM »


Dear Anil,

It is only God or a self realized Jnani can change the destiny of a person, who is an ajnani.
All said and done, only destiny is there.  Once Jagadeeswara Sastri was seriously ill and was
admitted into a hospital in Tiruvannamalai.  He became thin, in a few days and devotees who
went to the hospital and saw him also felt that he would not survive long.  One evening the doctor attending to him, came to Sri Bhagavan and asked him: Swami, we are giving him three or four
types of medicines.  But nothing really works. What shall we do?

Sri Bhagavan then mentioned one medicine and said to the doctor: You please give this
medicine for some more time and let us see.

With that particular medicine pointed out by Sri Bhagavan, Jagadeeswara Sastri got completely cured and came back to the Asramam.  Devotees were astonished. Thus a sure death was
prevented by Sri Bhagavan.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1058 on: June 26, 2011, 05:54:55 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

So, Sri Adi Shankara became a competent Cobbler and Sri Bhagwan became a Doctor of doctors! Sometimes a Jnani's action is of the realm of mystery. Sri Bhagwan is a Prfect Jnani. A Perfect Jnani is God Himself. And God's Will ever prevails, in all places, and in all circumstances, ever. It is His Will which prevails through our so-called free-will. Who can fathom a Jnani's Ways and Actions ?

Thank you so much, sit.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1059 on: June 27, 2011, 08:31:26 AM »
Prakrteh  kriyamanani  gunaih  karmani  sarvasah/
Ahamkara-vimudh’atma  karta’ham  iti  mayate//
                                        Verse-27, Ch. 3, Srimad Bhagava Gita

Prakrteh—of Prakrti
gunah—by gunas (dispositions)
sarvasah—everywhere
karmani—actions
kriyamanani—are perforemed
ahamkara-vimudh’atma—man deluded by ego-mind
aham—I am
karta—the doer
iti—thus
manyate—believes.

Everywhere all works are performed by the gunas (disposition or power) of the Prakriti or the Nature. But deluded by ego, the man believes, ‘I am the doer’.

Knower of the Self knows the Absolute Truth that gunas of the Prakriti (disposition of Nature), and the actions resulting  due to them, are different from the Self and, therefore remain unattached. He knows that gunas of the Prakriti are interacting with the gunas of the Prakriti and therefore is not unaffected. So, a Realised One has no sense of agency, ‘I am the doer of the works’. He is not concerned with the fruits of the work He does—either bad or good.   

Dear devotees, when only fruits of action are resigned to the Lord, the feeling that he is the agency, the doer of the works, remains. Srimad Bhagavad Gita teaches here that sense of agency that ‘I am the doer’ must also be resigned to the Lord. Only forces of the Nature are working on the objects verily created by the forces of the Nature. Therefore, the feeling that one is doing is superfluous. It is, obviously, born of ignorance. ( To continue in the next post)

Thank you,
     Anil 


                                       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1060 on: June 27, 2011, 10:39:08 AM »


Dear srkudai, Anil,

I agree with srkudai. The only effort that is needed is
to withdraw the mind from going outwards.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1061 on: June 27, 2011, 07:21:13 PM »
Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

No. All scriptural knowledge cannot be useless. Some knowledge indeed is needed for Yoga , particularly when one is treading Vichara. In my view, pointed books  are helpful. However, mere book learning is of no great use. They make one spiritually-minded.

Dear Udai Ji, what is detrimental to the spiritual health of a devotee is not learning itself, but THE PRIDE OF LEARNING AND DESIRE FOR APPRECIATION OF THEIR ERUDITION. Therefore, what is criticised or condemned is not the learning itself but the pride of learning and desire for appreciation for such great learning. SRI BHAGWAN SAYS THAT LEARNING LEADING TO SEARCH FOR TRUTH AND HUMILITY IS GOOD.

Dear Udai Ji, you have written in your post that  “if Pundits were really saying of calm mind, can they get really heated as they argue?”  I have to simply say that if one arguing merely to  score some debating points, mind is not often calm. There is often friction generating heat. THEREFORE, THEY CAN REALLY GET HEATED AS THEY ARGUE.

Dear Udai Ji, reading Guru’s Teaching, His life-story etc. is bound to act at sub-conscious or at some deeper level. Much more when one has deep faith in Him. There is no doubt whatever about that. But then so does the Grace which is the primary cause for Realisation, and so does the sadhana itself.

Ego-I is like a reflected ray which appears due to reflection from the aggregate of vasanas. When Vichara is practiced in the form of “Who Am I?” and “Whence Am I ?”, Self-attention becomes intense and rajor-sharp and goes deeper and deeper within along the reflected ray-I, i.e. the ego-I. Thus, when this attention, gradually with practice, reaches the Source, i.e. the Self,  Verse-9 of the ‘Atma-vidya Patikam’ says that the length of the ray-I goes on decreasing more and more till it finally reaches the Source and merges into It, ray-I disappears and that which then shines as ‘I’ is Jnana, or Knowledge.

Therefore, what I wish to say is that one may or should benefit from the auxiliary aids on the Path, But Sri Bhagwan has taught us Self-attention for Self Realisation.
WHY? Because Sri Bhagwan says: Although in the beginning, on account of the tendencies towards sense-objects which have been recurring down the ages , thoughts rise in countless numbers like the waves of the ocean, they will all perish as the aforesaid Self-attention becomes more and more intense.

AND WHEN SELF-ATTENTION BECOMES INTENSE AND GOES DEEPER, THERE IS NO LOOKING BACK.

How do you take Self-attention. What do you think ? Is it to be taken only during the allotted time fixed for the purpose or should go on always as and when attention is drawn to it in case of swerving from it?

Thank you so much.
Anil 

       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1062 on: June 27, 2011, 07:31:00 PM »


Dear Anil,

When Sivaprakasam Pillai asked about book learning to Sri Bhagavan,
in Who am I? under Question No. 23, Sri Bhagavan replied as under:

Q: Is it any use reading books for those who long for release?

Sri Bhagavan: All the texts say that in order to gain release, one should render
the mind quiescent.  Therefore, their conclusive teaching is that mind should
be rendered quiescent. One this has been understood, there is no need for
ENDLESS READING. In order to quieten the mind, one has only to inquire within
oneself , what one's Self is. How could this search be done in the books? One
 should know one's Self with one's own eye of wisdom. The Self is within five sheaths.
But books are outside them. Since the Self has to be inquired into by discarding the
five sheaths, it is futile to search it in books. There will come a time when one will have
to forget all that one has learned.

***
But unfortunately, most of us are not listening to Sri Bhagavan's words in this regard,.
We keep on reading. We should drop this habit one by one.



     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1063 on: June 28, 2011, 08:08:15 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Very nice, sir. Auxiliary practices can be of use. But only the Enquiry into the Self is of Supreme Use.

Author of the Vritti Prabhakara is said to have studied more than 350,000 books before writing this book. But as Sri Bhagwan said, the Self is within the five sheaths. Can It ever be found in Books? Sri Bhagwan says in Talk no. 332 that Vritti Sagara is full of logic and technical terms. But these ponderous volumes do not serve any real purpose.  Sri Bhagwan says that some people read them and then seek sages only to see if they can answer adequately to their learned questions. Sri Bhagwan says that to read them, to discover new doubts and to solve them, is a source of pleasure to them. Knowing it to be sheer waste, sages do not encourage such people. Encourage them once and there will be no end.

However, Sri Bhagwan says there is hope even for them. One day they will also come along.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1064 on: June 28, 2011, 08:18:45 AM »
“Even a wise man acts in accordance with his nature. All beings follow their nature. What can repression do ?”
                                                                                                          Verse-33, Ch. 3, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

It is natural for the senses to feel attraction or aversion in the objects of the senses pertaining to them. Do not come under their sway, for they are enemies ( of all spiritual aspirants).
                                                                                                            Verse-34, Ch. 3, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

There has been a great deal of controversial interpretation of the Verse-33 of Ch. 3 of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita. Some commentators say that this verse contains elements of fatalism. A devotee, referrikng to the same Verse asked from Sri Bhagwan, “Are we then to do nothing and simply allow the senses to go their own way?”
That all creatures are subject to their prakriti, nature, is true and cannot be disputed. But the Lord Sri Krishna says in the V. 33, “What can ‘nigraha’(control or repression) do?” Desires and tendencies cannot be forcefully eliminated. Attempt to supress the inherent tendencies forcefully may prove even counterproductive.
The next Verse ,i.e., the Verse-34 is the key to understand the Verse-33.  The lord says in the Verse-34 that there is a natural attraction or aversion between the senses and their objects, but they are enemies and therefore should be avoided by right discrimination and awareness. The Great Lord deals with sensual infatuation in 2. 66-68 of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita. He says that man gets infatuated when he dwells on the sense objects longingly and develops attachment or aversion. Attachment gives rise to desire, and desire generates animosities and infatuation. This infatuation is the enemy which makes one forget his moral and spiritual foundation. Therefore, in the Verse-34, man is exhorted by the Great Lord to avoid exposure to the sense objects, and is exposed unavoidably, one should exercise discrimination to protect oneself, always remembering that they are enemies.

Sri Bhagwan: If the two Verses ( V.33&34, Ch.3, Srimad Bhagavad Gita) were taken together, it could not be contended that Gita teaches ‘Don’t restrain or attempt to restrain the senses, because what does restraint avail ?’
Yes, for spiritual aspirants who have embarked on as great a journey as the Enquiry or Surrender, indulgence in the sense objects are bound to prove detrimental and even has the potential to destroy the sadhana itself.

So, Sri Bhagwan’s Final Explanation of the Verses 27, 33, and 34 of the Ch.3 of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita :
“ It only means actions will go on, according to the gunas or prakriti of the man. They cannot be prevented. But, that is the very reason why man should acquire jnana and thus become unaffected by the consequences of such action. The Verse says, “Acquire jnana and be unattached to the actions and their consequences.”

Therefore, “What repression will do ?” does not mean one should indulge unabashedly. One cannot go against one’s nature. Even a wise man acts according to his nature only. So, it only means, as Sri Bhagwan said, that actions will go on according to the nature. They cannot be prevented. But those who are performing spiritual sadhana to know the Self or God, should not come under the sway of the sense objects because of natural attraction. Discrimination and awareness here are the keys.

MY EXPERIENCE : ATMA-VICHARA IS ITS OWN GUIDE.

Thank you,
   Anil