Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759089 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1035 on: June 23, 2011, 04:32:05 PM »


Dear Anil,

To treat the Guru as with the body is alright in the beginning.  But as maturity
of seekers progresses, he should treat Guru as beyond body - the Self - the all
pervading effulgence. After Sri Bhagavan's Maha Niirvana, people who were considering Him only as a body, started leaving bag and baggage to their native
places. Only Chadwick, Osborne, Kunju Swami, Cohen and a few others remained in the Asramam.  The people who left Tiruvannamalai, found soon that their mind is jumping outside with all sorts of unwanted thoughts and they could not meditate peacefully.  Then they understood slowly and came back to Tiruvannamalai to be in His Presence, which is ever guiding the seekers.  Sri Bhagavan Himself has said
-Where can I go? I am here!.

In Arjuna's case also, the same thing happened.
After Krishna's withdrawal of form, Arjuna cried bitterly.  Soon, he understood that
Krishna is not a form outside but within.  He understood the purport of Bhagavad
Gita much better at that point of time.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1036 on: June 23, 2011, 06:33:04 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. So long as one identifies himself with a name name and form, the thought that the Guru too is some name and form is inescapable, and is alright for the beginning. A conversation between Sri Bhagwan and a devotee is quoted below which I feel is relevant to the discussion :

Devotee : Is there absolute necessity of a Guru for Self-Realisation ?

Sri Bhagwan : So long as you seek Self-Realisation the Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. Take Guru to be the Real Self and your self as the individual self. The disappearance of this sense of duality is removal of ignorance. So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary. Because you identify yourself with the body you think the Guru, too, to be some body. You are not the body, nor is the Guru.You are the Self and so is the Guru. This knowledge is gained by what you call Self-Realisation.
                                                           Talk-282


Therefore, even when duality persists, Sri Bhagwan teaches to accept the Guru as the Real Self and seeker's self as the individual self. But this sense of duality is imagined and it must be destroyed by Enquiry or Surrender. Sri Bhagwan says here that this very sense of duality is ignorance. The Knowledge 'that  we are not the body, nor is the Guru, that we are the Self and so is the Guru', can be gained only by what is called Self-Realisation.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   





 

 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1037 on: June 24, 2011, 08:41:44 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Self is the only Sentient Entity. There is nothing apart from the Self. If such objects appear they are all insentient. Being insentient, they cannot know themselves, nor can they know mutually one another. Therefore, when a particular object is known, in truth, it is the Self which has known itself in the form of that object. But, Sri Bhagwan says that because  the Self ( i.e. , we )does not know its true nature in this manner that it seems to struggling as an individual.

So, Supreme Reality is the Self Itself who is none other than Brahman Himself. Feeling that we are not realised and identification with the body-mind complex must come to an end. How ?

The ego is the reflection of the Self in the water of the mind, which is constantly throwing out thought-waves. If one searches for the method to still its movement, the correct way is to cling to the Self, the true import of the ego, as the object, remaining determinedly still, paying no attention to that reflection which makes one slip away from one’s true state.
                                                                                                    V. 1192. GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

We see the reflection of the sun in a pot filled with water. Since we see the reflection, there must be a true sun also somewhere to make the reflection possible. The ego is the reflection of the Self in the water of the mind. So, Sri Bhagwan says that the ego appears to exist too only because we exist. If we imagine that we are the ego, we look on the Self as the ego; if as the mind, we are the mind; if as the body, we the body. Thoughts work up in infinite ways.

Sri Bhagwan asks, “Can anyone stop the shaking of the shadow on the water?”  If it should cease to shake, the only way is not to look on the water. So also, Sri Bhagwan says that movement, i.e., ‘vikshepa’ and ‘avarana’ would not cease so long as we keep looking on the unreal.

Therefore, Sri Bhagwan teaches, ‘By holding on tightly to the motionless Self, taking it as one’s support, the mind will become free of agitation’. (V. 119, Padamalai)

SO, IT FOLLOWS THAT IF THE MOVEMENT OF THE MIND IN THE FORM ‘VIKSHEPA’ AND ‘AVARANA’ SHOULD CEASE, THE CORRECT WAY IS TO HOLD TIGHTLY TO THE MOTIONLESS SELF.

Thank you,
  Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1038 on: June 24, 2011, 09:47:57 AM »


Dear Anil,

About the mind and thoughts and turning within, Sri V. Ganesan, had given the
following comments/advice to Mr. Michael Chettleborough, sometimes in late 1960s.
------
Three times a day, for two or three minutes, sit quietly with no thoughts and no
imaginings and be aware of ALL of yourself. Expand your attention of your senses
to ALL around and in you.

Be All Aware and try to hold it, Observe all.

A fuller description of the exercise is as follows:

Sit quietly.  Stop all thoughts [including day dreaming and all imagining]. Be aware
of yourself, this is most important.  If you are sitting on a chair be aware of your weight on the seat and of the back of the chair. Sense the pressure of your feet on the ground and of the clothing on your skin -- you bring an observer into the picture by doing this.  Whilst stopping thoughts, and being aware of yourself, expand your attention. See all that is facing you and on either side, smell and hear, and without turning around be aware of all those around you.  Hold this. Watch what you see, feel, taste, smell and hear.  Note what happens inside you.  All this with no discursive thoughts.

Just Be aware.  Observe -- do not interfere. Do not worry about anything.

Consciously experience. Not as an achievement, or a conclusion or a goal. Become aware that what is seen is the "seeing".

-------



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1039 on: June 24, 2011, 12:17:35 PM »
About the mind and thoughts and turning within, Sri V. Ganesan, had given the
following comments/advice to Mr. Michael Chettleborough, sometimes in late 1960s.
------
Three times a day, for two or three minutes, sit quietly with no thoughts and no
imaginings and be aware of ALL of yourself. Expand your attention of your senses
to ALL around and in you.

Be All Aware and try to hold it, Observe all.

A fuller description of the exercise is as follows:

Sit quietly.  Stop all thoughts [including day dreaming and all imagining]. Be aware
of yourself, this is most important.  If you are sitting on a chair be aware of your weight on the seat and of the back of the chair. Sense the pressure of your feet on the ground and of the clothing on your skin -- you bring an observer into the picture by doing this.  Whilst stopping thoughts, and being aware of yourself, expand your attention. See all that is facing you and on either side, smell and hear, and without turning around be aware of all those around you.  Hold this. Watch what you see, feel, taste, smell and hear.  Note what happens inside you.  All this with no discursive thoughts.

Just Be aware.  Observe -- do not interfere. Do not worry about anything.

Consciously experience. Not as an achievement, or a conclusion or a goal. Become aware that what is seen is the "seeing".


Dear Sri Subramanaian Sir,

Thank you so much, sir, for posting a very important post. First, sir, I wish to know whether it is the same Sri V. Ganasan who has written a book named 'Self-Attention, or something like that. I tried to search for the book in the Book-depot of the Ashram, but it was not available. Kindly tell me something about Sri V. Ganesan.

Dear sir, I wish to make following obsevations on Sri V. Ganesan's advice to Sri Michael in respect of the mind control and the mind turning within based on my personal experience.


"Who am I ?" enquiry shifts the attention effectively to the 'I'- thought. Ji. Yes. 'Sit quietly with no thought and imagination and be aware of All of yourself.' This is alright for me. Expand your attention of your senses to All around and in you. This, in my view is also alright. But I consciously make effort not to stray beyond that.  Why bring an obsever in the picture and create duality ? I should say, "Stop thoughts, and remaining aware, expand your attention to All that is as mere Witness. what I wish to say is that even while watching the seeing, tasting, feeling, hearing and smelling, etc, one shoud keep on holding oneself. Watching must remain as mere witnessing. Otherwise, in my view, discursive thoughts would be hard to prevent. They are always likely to creep in, and lo, you have swerved away from yourself.

'Become aware that what is seen is the seeing." And then experience seer, seen and seeing, merging into Youself. What remains is "I Am", Hold It. Keep holding It as long as one can. Remain fully aware. If swerved, become aware of yourself once again and just be.
 

Dear sir, I think that I have made my point clear. However, I should await your comment to say anything further on the subject.   

Regards,
  Anil



 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1040 on: June 24, 2011, 01:54:54 PM »


Dear srkudai,

I agree with you in the sense that raga-dveshas should be totally annihilated to
retain the mental tranquility which shall make self inquiry go undisturbed.
However, Sri Bhagavan has said "that how long one can wait for these dyads
to go away. Take up the swarupa dhyanam. There is only one mind. Only
vasanas are subha and asubha. If one could continue swarupa dhyanam ievery day for  as may hours as possible, one can acquire mental tranquility." 

Once Annamalai Swami asked Sri Bhagavan [From his Tamizh book Sri Ramana
Ninaivugal - Thoughts on Sri Ramana]: "Bhagavane, I want to remain aloof without anyone disturbing me. I should get a little food without any effort. I should remain in closed doors of a small cottage and do dhyanam."   

Sri Bhagavan smiled and replied: "If you go on thinking all these, you have to take one more birth. Whether you are alone or with people, whether you get food with or without effort, whether you are in open space or within closed doors, whether people come and disturb you or not, you continue to be in dhyana of Swarupam.
The world is not outside. The world is within you. Do not plan anything. God has already planned your life to be like this. Hence do not ask for anything and do
your swrupa dhyanam. If God wills, things will be sorted out on their own accord. If dhyana is difficult then remember Arunachalam constantly."       



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1041 on: June 24, 2011, 03:14:31 PM »


Dear  srkudai,

I agree with you.  We should constantly aim at reducing the tamasic and rajasic
tendencies. E.g. over-eating, over-sleeping, constant lingual diarrohea with friends
on unwanted matters, like When will Rajani Kanth come back from Singapore?
What changes will Jayalalitha bring about?  Will Kanimozhi get bail or not?
What is the use of such wasteful talks in life?  How is going to help one's
spiritual sadhana. One should, as you said, constantly endeavour to reduce or make it nil - these rajasic and tamasic tendencies.  At the same time, when a friend of
yours come to talk about it, politely say, that you have got some other work and you have to rush home.

Once Nochur Venkataraman told this story.  When some gossiping friend comes often to your house, when you are doing something more important, then you tolerate him one or two occasions.  If he comes for the third time, to tell such unimportant worthless matters, then open ULLadu Narpadu and start explaining to him the verse. He will run away even refusing your offer of coffee.  And will not come back again!

We not only prevent him to spend time in rajasic and tamasic tendencies and we also avoid such tendencies for our own good.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1042 on: June 24, 2011, 05:52:06 PM »
Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Udai Shankar,

This, in my view, is not a matter of agreement and disagreement.  My firm belief is that there is an essential unity in spiritual matters. A dualist and a non-dualist are not essentially opposed to each other. Only they are talking about the same Goal from where they are.

Thoughts come and distract practice. Thoughts are only vasanas, inherited mental tendencies,or predispositions, accumulated in innumerable births. Their annihilation is the aim. Sri Bhagwan says that the state free from vasanas is the primal state and eternal state of purity (Talk-80).

Good attitude or good thoughts are helpful. That is all. Sri Bhagwan says that they keep off bad thoughts, meaning that they prevent a sadhak from adharmic activites as you say. But they must disappear before the state of Realisation. Because, Sri Bhagwan says, thoughts, good or bad, take you farther and not nearer, because the Self is more intimate than thoughts (Talk-341). Therefore, inculcation of good attitude and creative thoughts are helpful in the way that they ward off the bad thoughts.

Sri Muruganar sang that ego is the reflection of the Self in the water of the mind. What is the water of the mind? WATER IS FURNISHED BY THE AGGREGATE OF VASANAS IN THE MIND. If the mind-pot is drained by Self-enquiry of its water (vasanas), there will be no reflection. So, Sri Bhagwan says that the seeker’s aim must be to drain away vasanas from the Heart so that no reflection obstructs the Light of Eternal Consciousness. Sri Bhagwan says, “This is achieved by the search for the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. This is the direct method” (Talk-616). And why is this the direct method? Because the moment it is invoked it at once shifts the attention to ‘Ourselves’. AND THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT IF THIS ATTENTION IS PROLONGED BY PRACTICE, IT IS FULLY CAPABLE OF DESTROYING ALL THE VASANAS LIKE HEAPS OF COTTON BURNT IN NO TIME, IF IGNITED.

Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said that to some, Vichara may not appeal, or may appear very difficult and therefore such persons should develop Bhakti or take up japa etc.

Devotee: Distractions result from inherited tendencies. Can they be cast off too?
Sri Bhagwan: Yes. Many have done so. BELIEVE IT. THEY DID SO BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED THEY COULD. Vasanas (predispositios) can be obliterated. It is done by concentration on that which is free from vasanas and yet is their core.
                                                                             Talk-28

Yes, how can anybody say that devotees didn’t benefit in His life-time and are not benefiting now? Many people do not seem to realise who Bhagwan Ramana is. SRI RAMANA IS SRI ARUNACHALESHWARA HIMSELF. And in modern times, I do not know the Name of a Guru who gave an infallible weapon for Self-Realisation and declared its efficacy from the roof-top to all who came to him and sought his Refuge.   

THEREFORE, I REITERATE THAT THE SELF-ENQUIRY AS TAUGHT BY SRI BHAGWAN IS CENT PER-CENT ENOUGH. NAY, MORE THAN CENT PERCENT ENOUGH.

HE HIMSELF SAYS THAT MANY HAVE DONE SO. BELIEVE IT !

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1043 on: June 24, 2011, 06:23:02 PM »
When we want to become truely religious, its important to intentionally make Self the ultimate resting point or the ultimate "Desire".

Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

This is a beautiful line. Otherwise, the transitory nature of the empirical world cannot be discerned.
Dear Udai Ji, when one is a seeker, it should be assumed that he is already disillusioned with the bottomless pit that is the samsara and wants salvation. He has already undergone attitudinal metamorphosis and is now seeking a Guru. So, it is, in my opinion, cent percent correct when you say that it is important to make the Self Ultimate Resting Point. Because the Self is the beginning, middle and the end. Therefore, I am also of the same opinion that the Self should be made the Ultimate Resting Point from the very beginning and whenever we swerve, we should at once return to It the moment we remember It yet again.

Thank you,
   Anil
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1044 on: June 24, 2011, 06:37:58 PM »


Dear Anil,

There is an incident in Sri Bhagavan's life when He was in the Old Hall. It was a hot summer day. Two learned pandits were discussing outside the hall, about scriptures and their various interpretations. Sri Bhagavan after some time, came out and called them saying: It is very hot outside. Come and sit inside the Hall which is quite cool.

So all the reading of scriptures  and mouth watering discussions of in life are only a waste. One should remain silent in the cool resting place!  the Heart.



Arunachala Siva.
 

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1045 on: June 25, 2011, 07:58:18 AM »
Dear sir,


We get dreams while we sleep. Is not it? Does jnani sleep?  It is said that jnani will have a special type of sleep. THUNGIYUM THUNGAMALUM.
It is very difficult to explain their stage.  After all once the enlightenment take place, there is no sleep, deep sleep or dreams for them. They are FULLY AWAKENED ALWAYS.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1046 on: June 25, 2011, 09:41:48 AM »


Dear Ramanaduli,

Jnani has got deep sleep. He also dreams. Sri Bhagavan Himself had said that He
had dreams sometimes.  But the difference is that a Jnani like Sri Bhagavan,
while sleeping, dreaming or in wakeful state, is always in the state of Awareness,
i.e  Self Awareness.  We are partially ignorant in wakeful and dream states and fully
ignorant in deep sleep states. Even though the Self is also within us, there is no
Awareness like the case of a Jnani.

Thoongamal thoonguvathu is called Jagrat Sushupti.  This is the ever present state of Awareness as mentioned above.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1047 on: June 25, 2011, 10:39:28 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
 
Ji. Yes. Only the Shade of the Mother-Tree is cool. Outside, it is the scorching heat of the mental fire. I pray to the Guru to bestow wisdom so that I do not leave the Shade again !

‘That trustworthy vichra exists neither in book learning nor in learning from others but only in one’s own sense of ‘I’ [aham].
                                                                 V. 35, Padamalai

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1048 on: June 25, 2011, 10:41:10 AM »
Devotee: The residual impressions (thoughts) of objects appear unending like the waves of an ocean. When will all of them get destroyed ?
Sri Bhagwan : As the meditation on the Self rises higher and higher, the thoughts will get destroyed.
                                                                                        Who Am I ?

“Without yielding to the doubt ‘Is it possible, or not ?’, one should persistently hold on to the meditation on the Self. Even if one be great sinner, one should not worry and weep ‘O ! I am a sinner, how can I be saved ?’
                                                        Sri Bhagwan, ‘Who Am I ?’

Dear Sri Udai Shankar,
We must understand that Sri Bhagwan prescribed Self-enquiry not only as a technique of meditation, or as a mere practice, but as technique of living also. When asked whether it should be used always or just in fixed hours of meditation , Sri Bhagwan replied, ‘Always’. So, Self-enquiry is itself an attitude. And, in my view, Sri Bhagwan Himself has enjoined Surrender and Submission to the Divine Will side by side with Vichara. The efficacy of the Vichara is certain to  be enhanced manifold. Sri Bhagwan says :
“ As long as there are enemies within the fortess, they will continue to sally forth; if they are destroyed as they sally forth, the fortress will fall into our hands.” So, as long as there are impressions, of objects in the mind, so long the enquiry ‘Who Am I ?’ is required with perseverance. Faith in the Guru and Belief in His Teaching is sine-qua-non.

“Those who have entered the excellent , straight and direct path, the jnana-vichara ‘Who Am I?’, never get confused and lose their way. The reason is, this path is straight and direct, like the light of the sun. It will reveal its straightness to those who have embarked upon it.”
                                                                                                V. 393, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

If the Self is made the Ultimate Resting Point as you say, or if it is taken as the only Target, because of Its Non-dual Nature, Enqiry will have the undeviating nature of always moving towards the Self only. So says Sri Muruganar and, dear Udai ji, I have no doubt whatever from the very beginning on that assertion.

Dear Udai Ji, without sounding  special in the least in any way whatever, for I am not, I just submit that Vichara is not mere a practice for me, to be performed for half an hour or so in an allotted time daily, self-prescribed for the purpose. I am in Vichara where I am when I am. I believe deeply in Sri Bhagwan’s words, ‘You are the Centre of Dhyana’.

Thank you,
   Anil                                 


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1049 on: June 25, 2011, 04:21:04 PM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan has said that either self inquiry or self surrender alone shall confer liberation.
One need not wait for vasanas to be erased.  If such be the case, to start from a clean state,
it will be difficult for anyone even to start the practice. Hence start doing vichara or self surrener
seeking God or Guru's Grace.  One cannot bathe in sea after waiting for the waves to stop.



Arunachala Siva.