Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755779 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1005 on: June 18, 2011, 07:13:50 AM »
In the unenlightened state, there is no way in which its nature can be indicated, by saying; ‘it is like this…..’ or ‘it is like that…….’. Like a bubble as it bursts, knower, known and knowledge all return to the ocean of our noble Master’s wondrous grace.
                                                                                                        V. 684, Sri Ramana Anubuti

Unless, through his gracious teaching, we attain the enlightened state in which the Self is directly experienced, unless we separate ourselves from the illusory world of the foolish mind, so that it can no longer exist, there will be a false ‘I’ which torments our understanding. In order for this conflict to cease, we must thoroughly investigate and comprehend our own nature.
                                                                                                        V. 118, Sri Ramana Anubuti

Sri Bhagwan:
“Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’, ‘I’, one will be led to that place (the Heart).
                                                 (Who Am I?)

Yes. Mind can never fathom. How can it? ‘Like this’ and  ‘like that’, etc., are mere mental visions and imaginations.  All it takes is the ENQUIRY. Bubble-like mind-consciousness cannot stand the intense search-light of the enquiry and it bursts; bubble-consciousness bursts and we (ourselves knower, known, and knowledge) return to the ocean of the wondrous, wondrous, Grace of the Sadguru. Sri Muruganar in the cited Verse above says that unless we separate ourselves from  the illusory  superimposition by proper investigation of our true nature, a false ‘I’ is always lurking to spring to cause agony and conflict and shroud  us from ‘US’ by the ignorance.

So long as the false ‘I’ keeps on bandying about as the Self, ‘Happiness’ which is our real nature will remain shrouded only to be experienced in trickles when thought subsides momentarily on the satisfaction of a certain desire. Thoughts rise and we are tormented, becoming so completely oblivious of our True Nature as Happiness Itself. DEAR DEVOTEES, THE FALSE ‘I’ STEALS US FROM US. The ego-mind-‘I’ clinging to the body for existence, and which poses to be the Self and is therefore intimate, is in truth alien to us. IT IS A THIEF INDEED.

Therefore, Sri Muruganar sings we must thoroughly investigate and comprehend our real nature. Sri Bhagwan has said in ‘Who Am I?’ that if one cannot do enquiry properly as taught, one can at least continue repeating to oneself mentally ‘I, ‘I’ all the time whatever one may be doing whether sitting, walking, working etc.

SRI BHAGWAN SAYS THAT ‘I’ IS THE NAME OF GOD. IT IS THE FIRST AND GREATEST OF ALL MANTRAS. EVEN OM IS SECOND TO IT. KEEP ATTENTION RIVETTED TO IT, TO THE FEELING OF EXISTENCE THAT IS ‘I’.

Thank you,
   Anil


           


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1006 on: June 18, 2011, 09:15:30 AM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Ramana Anubhuti was composed by Sri Muruganar much later,
and it describes his own experiential state due to Grace of Sri
Bhagavan.  Earlier Robert Butler had translated the part I of Sri
Ramana Anubhuti as Nondual Consciousness. 

The same Tamizh work has been rendered once again, afresh by
Robert Butler in English, under the title Guru Ramana Prasadam.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1007 on: June 18, 2011, 10:14:00 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes. I have both translation of Sri Ramana Anubuti, the ‘Guru Ramana Prasadam’ as well as ‘Non-Dual consciousness, The flood Tide of Bliss’ with me.
Dear sir, I have been making conscious effort to assimilate and follow Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching to the best of my knowledge and capacity. I do not care for anything else, I do not seek anything else, now, other than Sri Bhagwan’s Grace. Although I am an engineer by profession, employed under the government, my mind is not at all in it. I still perform my duty, whatever comes my way, to the best of my ability, but I pray to Sri Bhagwan to rid me of this burden. Having said as the above, I wish to say that I find in Sri Muruganar the Poet who penned in ink comprehensively and accurately Sri Bhagwan’s  Seminal, Uniquely Radical, and Epoch-making Teaching. So, I tried and still try to make available for myself all the works, all the compositions, done by the Divine Poet.

Dear sir, I asked from you a question with regard to verse-4 of the ULLadu Narpadu in my post no. 1031 under the current topics on page-69. I hope that you would kindly respond to my query.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
   Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1008 on: June 18, 2011, 01:12:25 PM »


Dear Anil,

Your doubt is well appreciated. I shall explain to the best of my ability.
 
"Is there anything that is seen, whose nature is other than that of
the eye [that sees]?"  This is Robert Butler's translation, for the
Tamizh line - kaNNalaaR kaatchi undo?  In other words, can there be sight or spectacle without the eye?  ULLadu Narpadu - Verse 4.

Robert Butler's translation is of course, more elaborate.  The sum and substance is: that there is no sight of an object without the eyes.  All that we see is only due to our eyes. So the sight is also dependent on the seer's eyes.

There is one story to highlight this. When Purandara Dasa was explaining Ramayanam, he said that in Ashoka orchid, where Sita was held in imprisonment, the flowers were all white in colour.
When Purandara Dasa said this, Hanuman got annoyed and said:
No. You  are wrong. As I have seen it in Asoka orchid where Sita Mata was staying, the flowers were all red only.

So, this debate continued.  Puranadara Dasa quoted Valmiki and others but of no use for Hanuman. But Hanuman had seen the flowers. How to settle this issue?  Both prayed to Sita. Sita came
before them. And then she said: O Anjaneya, you have given me life in Ramayanam story when I was imprisoned by Ravana.  However, I have to tell you that what you say is incorrect.  The flowers in Asoka orchid were only white. Hanuman asked Sita: "O Mother, then how can I be satisfied? Anyhow tell me, why it appeared red when I saw?"  Then, Sita said: I shall explain. Since you were at that very angry, with your red eyes, you saw the flowers and so the flowers appeared to YOU AS RED.

Hanuman was satisfied. And this explains the lines, "Is there anything that is seen, whose nature is other than that of the eye
that sees."  Everything is dependent on our eyes.  When people see two people one man and one woman, there could be many possibilities depending on the seer.

a. Two could be friends.
b. Two could be husband and wife.
c. Two could be lovers secretly going away to some place for a
    secret wedding.
d. Two could be brother and sister.

All depend on the eyes of the seer.

Like this Brahman can never be "seen". It can be only experienced.
Or poetically it is said, one sees with the eye of Jnana or Jnana KaN, as Sri Bhagavan says.



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1009 on: June 19, 2011, 10:00:29 AM »
If one’s self is a form, then it follows that the world and the Supreme will have form also. If one’s self is not a form, who is there to see their forms, and how? Is there anything that is seen whose nature is other than that of the eye [that sees]? That eye is in reality the Self, the infinite eye.
                                                                  Verse-4, ULLadu Narpadu, Tr. Sri Robert Butler

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much, sir, for clearing my doubt with regard to the Verse-4 of the ULLadu Narpadu with a very relevant story. While I had been engrossed in the Verse 52 of the ULLadu Narpadu, edited by Sri David Godman, I saw the Verse 4 of the Ulladu Narpadu cited just below it; and on the next page on no. 28, I found Sri Bhagwan’s elaborated explanation regarding the said Verse that He gave to Sri L. Sarma.

Sri Bhagwan : If the eye that sees be the eye of flesh, then  gross forms are seen; if the eye be assisted by lenses, then even invisible things are seen to have form; if the mind be that eye, then subtle forms are seen; thus the seeing eye and the objects seen are of the same nature; that is, if the eye be itself a form, it sees nothing but forms. But neither the physical eye nor the mind has any power of vision of its own. The real eye is the Self; as he is formless, being pure and infinite consciousness, the reality, he does not see forms.
                                                                                                  Maha Yoga, p. 83

Nature of what is seen cannot be different from the seeing eye or the seer. As the seeing eye, so is the sight. Sri Bhagwan says that the ego-mind rises only holding a form. It identifies with a name and a body as the Self or ‘I’. The Self is Infinite and Formless Consciousness. Obviously, it follows that the ego can see only names and forms. It cannot see or realise the formless Self. So, Sri Bhagwan asks in the Verse-4, ‘If one’s self is a form, then it follows that the world and the Supreme will have form also. If one’s self is not a form , who is there to see their forms, and how?’. If one abides as the Self, who is there to see the forms , and how? Sri Bhagwan says that the seeing eye and the objects seen are of the same nature. Eye of flesh will see only gross forms, eye of the mind will see subtle forms as in dreams,  if the eye is lense-assisted , even invisible things are seen to have forms, and if the seeing eye is red-hot with anger, even leaves of the trees are seen to be red. But these eyes are insentient. The Real Eye behind all eyes is the Formless Self. Therefore, in Self-realisation one cannot see names and forms. IN THAT STATE HE SEES ONLY NAMELESS AND FORMLESS EXISTENCE-CONSCIOUSNESS-BLISS. THE SELF IS LIMITLESS CONSCIOUSNESS, THE INFINITE EYE.

THEREFORE, SRI BHAGWAN TEACHES, “ SEE THAT WHO SEES”. That will, for certain, put an end to the false and illusory external seeing for once and all.

Regards,
  Anil 






Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1010 on: June 19, 2011, 03:12:56 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says in Tamizh: KaNNallar kaatchi undo? Where is
the sight without eyes?  Eyes see the sight and makes a lot of interpretations as they occurred to its mind.  In deep sleep, there is no eye and hence there is no sight.  However in dreams, we see things even without eyes open?  How come? It is because the mind acts there on behalf of eyes!

The Real can only be experienced. It cannot be seen by the eyes made of flesh.  That is why it is called Jnana dhrishti - since Real
is experienced through Jnana.  This, Sri Bhagavan calls as Jnana KaN.
the eye of Jnana and not due oonak kaN, the eyes made of flesh.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1011 on: June 19, 2011, 05:53:52 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

‘It is called Jnana Drishti—since Real is experienced through Jnana’. This is a very significant spiritual statement. Thank you so much , sir.

After Self-Realisation, One is the Formless Absolute Consciousness, the Self. Sri Bhagwan says that Realisation is realising the Self as the Infinite Spiritual Eye. “All-pervading and Immanent God may appear in bright and beautiful forms to fleshy eyes, may appear in the heart-lotus of the accomplished yogis, he may appear in the rising and bright sacrificial fire to Brahmins, but to Jnanis possessing the Infinite Eye of the Self, He appears everywhere”, so sang the Great Poet Sri Muruganar.

When one is free from the afflicting thoughts and concepts, and when one has completely relinquished the ‘I am the body’ and ‘I am the doer’ ideas, one ends up as the Self who is the True and Limitless Eye of Jnana. Therefore, one ends up as the Infinite Eye of Jnana or the Infinite Eye of Grace.

Regards,
  Anil 

shakti

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1012 on: June 20, 2011, 06:44:07 AM »
what is the use of dreams and nightmares for the jnani? other than some psychological interpretation, what is the mind exploring? can we learn ,spiritually , from these pictures?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1013 on: June 20, 2011, 09:19:30 AM »


Dear Sakti,

Where is the theme of dreams and nightmares in this thread?
I do not understand.



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1014 on: June 20, 2011, 10:31:08 AM »
Dear Shakti,

I also do not understand the import of your question. We are not discussing dreams, nightmares, and mind exploration, etc. However, I shall say a few words in response to your question as follows :

Although we cannot fathom a Jnani’s State, at least we must try to understand intellectually who a Jnani is. A Jnani is always established in the Supreme Brahman. He has no dreams, either waking, or sleeping, and so, he has no nightmare.  Nor, He has any use of them.

As for the mind, Bhagwan Sri Ramana says that mind is something mysterious. In the satva aspect, it remains pure and there are no thought in it. In this aspect mind is identical with the Self, nay, verily the Self. However, rajas and tamas aspects give rise to vikshepa and veiling respectively. Pure mind is akin to akasa. Just as there are objects in the akasa, there are thoughts in the Pure mind which contaminate it. The akasa is the counterpart of the mind and objects are of thoughts. One cannot hope to measure the universe. It is impossible. For the objects are mental creations. Sri Bhagwan says that seeking to measure them is like trying to stamp with one’s foot on the head of the shadow cast by oneself. The farther one moves the farther the shadow moves also. To catch the shadow one must keep the hand on his own head. Sri Bhagwan says, ‘ Mind does not exist. Seek the Reality, the Self, mind will vanish’. Here it should be noted that Pure mind is verily the Self. And rajasic and tamasic aspects are mere bundle of thoughts.

So, Sri Bhagwan says that if the enquiry is made whether the mind exists, it will be found that the mind does not exist. Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just like a thief turning out to be policeman to catch the thief i.e. himself. This is not the way. SEEKING THE SELF IS THE ONLY WAY.

Thank you,
    Anil
   



eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1015 on: June 20, 2011, 10:34:16 AM »
Sri Bhagwan : Consciousness is always Self-consciousness. If you are conscious of anything, you are essentially conscious of yourself. Unself-conscious existence is a contradiction in terms. It is no existence at all. It is merely attributed existence, whereas true existence , the Sat, is not an attribute, it is the Substance itself. It is the Vastu. Reality is, therefore, known as sat-Chit, Being-Consciousness, and never merely the one to the exclusion of the other. The world neither exists by itself, nor is it conscious of its existence. How can you say that such a world is real? And what is the nature of the world? It is a perpetual change, a continuous, interminable flux.  A dependent, unselfconscious, ever changing world cannot be real.
                                                                                             Maharshi’s Gospel, Book II

Dear Devotees,

There is only one consciousness, and that is the Self-consciousness. Self-consciousness is the only abiding Reality. Everything rises from the Consciousness, stays for a while in the Consciousness and ultimately merge into It. Like a river when it rises from and merges in the ocean. True Existence is always Sat-Chit, Self-conscious Existence. There is no such thing as unself-conscious existence. Sri Bhagwan says that if we are conscious of anything, we are essentially conscious of ourselves. We must reflect on this revelation. World is the gross mind. So, the world is as real as the mind. But we know. Sri Bhagwan has taught us that there is no mind (naiva manasam), and, therefore, there is no world.

Dear devotees, Sri Bbhagwan’s above quoted statement, in my view, is very sublime and revealing. The wonder is it is not in opposition to the concepts of the modern physics. After Schodinger’s Wave-Mechanical Model, atom’s solidity stands demolished. It is a mere region for the radiation of energy. Electron identified this moment is different from the electron identified next moment. So, solid matter has become ghost-like.  Space and time stands smashed as the independent separate entities. Space is now a subjective concept created for the perception of objects and their arrangements. And similarly time is now a subjective concept created for the purpose of the arrangements of the events happening. Quantum Physics is now veering round the Consciousness Itself.

However, we are not much concerned with the discoveries and invention of the modern physics and modern sciences. Self-enquiry as taught by sri Bhagwan is enough to reveal to us that the world which is a perpetual change, a continuous, interminable flux, and unself-conscious, cannot be real.

Thank you,
   Anil

   


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1016 on: June 20, 2011, 04:01:42 PM »


Dear Anil,

Surprisingly one devotee asked Sri Bhagavan whether He had dreams.

Sri Bhagavan replied: Why not?  I sometimes dream of some Siva
temples and Siva Lingam.

Who can fathom a Jnani's mind?




Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1017 on: June 20, 2011, 05:19:14 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

"Why not ? I sometimes dream of Siva temples ams Siva Lingam."

What is the implication of the above Statement of Sri Bhagwan ? Sri Bhagwan Himself has said that a Jnani's mind is like a burnt rope. Form still appears but it cannot be used to tie anything up with. In my view, He saw Siva temples and Siva Lingam in dreams in the same way as He saw this world in the waking state. For Him both are the dreams and nothing more. In Truth, He is always established in the Reallity, Brahma-Nishtha. HE CAME TO PLAY THE GURU.
(I shall await your response, sir.)


Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

shakti

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1018 on: June 20, 2011, 05:54:35 PM »
dear anil, thank you very much for your reply. this has helped me very much. shakti

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1019 on: June 20, 2011, 06:01:10 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. You are correct.  For a Jnani like Sri Bhagavan, the world itself is
a dream and so the dreams that He had are dreams within dreams.



Arunachala Siva.