Author Topic: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?  (Read 6516 times)

srkudai

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How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« on: September 13, 2010, 02:07:15 PM »
:)  No! I am not going to lecture on this here :)
That's the question. I would love opinions of all our forum members.

matthias

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 06:57:43 PM »
the "I" knot is a very subtle tension in mind and body, if you practice the right kind of meditation you will let go of the tension at one point and have direct knowledge of the nature of reality as it is..

so the thing is to be perfectly aware of what is going on in the mind, and beeing relaxed at the same time, releasing all kinds of tension..

buddha said that graving is one of the roots for suffering, and graving manifests in bodily tension, very subtle sometimes, so if you meditate correctly you will let go of all sort of graving (tension)....

so if there is tension, ego is there.... if you feel tension release it and relaxe into the now, at a point ther eis no more tension everything is relaxed, the thoughts are coming without someone who sends them, emotions come and go but your mind and body is totally relaxed..free of graving..

thats the way I practice, its not flawless but its my practice, so it may be different then other ways and not the true way in this sense but it feels right to me :)







ramanaduli

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 08:31:55 AM »
Dear Udai ji,

When a person thinks "I" notion should not form, then again the person is in the clutch of the mind. In every work the mind will take the charge like a police officer. I think at the end, he will be in the same place. So without thinking anything it is better to do the duty and surrender everything  to the feet of Bhagavan. Is not it?


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 10:25:43 AM »


The "I notion" will become smaller and smaller and ultimately
disappear, if one submits himself totally to Guru or God.

Saint Manikkavachagar says in Koil Tirupadigam [Tiruvachakam], Verse
7:-

You have graced me and like the sun
That removes the darkness in the world.
I am thinking about you without thinking anything else,
And experienced that there is only you and nothing else,
The ego becomes subtler and subtler and
You only remain, O Siva of Tiruperundurai!
Only You are there and there is nothing else,
Who can understand your abundant grace?

AndaL says in Tiruppavai:

We shall become only your slaves,
We shall serve only you,
Not only now but in another seven births,
Remove our other desires, O Lord!


Arunachala Siva.
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 12:07:13 PM »


Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Chanting God's name is quite helpful in vanquishing the ego.
My own case is a classic example. 

Bhagavan Ramana says in His very first verse in Sri Arunachala
Aksharamana Maalai: 

Arunachalam ena ahame ninaippavar
Ahathai ver aRuppai Arunachala!

The one even thinks Arunachalam,
Their ego is uprooted, O Arunachala.

He again says in Verse 90 of the same poem:

Ramanan enRu uraithen rosham koLathu
Enai ramithida seyvaai Arunachala.

I said Ramanan.  Do not think I have disrespected you,
Come and make me blissful O Arunachala.

Again He says in Verse 102 of the same poem:

Arunai enRu eNNa yan aruL kaNNi patten
Un aruL valai thappumo Arunachala!

I merely thought Arunai; I am caught in your net of grace,
How can one escape your net of grace, O Arunachala!

Names are quite sublime, as sublime than the art of self inquiry.
Bhagavan Ramana recommended Siva, Siva, to Muruganar and
Annamalai Swami and also to an unknown Harijan.



Arunachala Siva.   

ramanaduli

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 05:57:43 PM »
In many incidents in purana it is said that God's name is highter than His form.  Chanting His name is like puja. Brahma jnani like Bhagavan Ramana and Adhi Sankara chanted God's name and showed the way of salvation in simple way. As Udai ji says, chanting God's name
 is one of the easy way to live without allowing "I" notion to form.
 When the devotee understands  the root cause for all problems is the "I" notion and  want to get rid of it, he should beg for His grace at first. Without our His grace it is very difficult even to chant.  Surrendering ourselves to Him, begging to grant to chant His name are the first steps. Manikavachakar says, AVAN ARULALE AVAN THAL VANAGI.   

In Maha bharatha the name Govindha saved Drowpathi. In Ramayana, the name Ram was written on each stone to build the bridge.
It shows the Nama mahima.


Ramanaduli

amiatall

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 02:39:46 AM »
When the 'I' notion forms?

The answer won't let a thief to parade.

There is no enquiry.
There is forgetfulness of ones own nature.
Precisely at that exact moment the castle is being ruled by phantom.

Solution? All knows very well.

amiatall

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2010, 03:01:43 AM »
Dear srkudai,

I honestly don't know what to explain about solution. Behind this word was 'who am i?' or inquiring is the solution.
constant inquiry, which is explained in books and here on forums many times.
Don't know why I wrote that sentence at all  ;)

I asked Bhagavan what to write here next and He says:

By establishing itself in the enquiry, 'Who is the one who has the delusion, the ignorance of not seeing the one who perceives the dream world?', the mind, (its fragmentary nature dead and gone), will rise as the sun of distilled being-consciousness at the feet of Iswara. (gvk)

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 09:37:37 AM »


Yes.  amiatall, you wrote 'allowing the thief to parade'.  The thief
is who?  He is none other than our mind.  Mind is the thief.  That
is why Bhagavan Ramana said to ask the thief to find out the thief
will not work.  The thief should be found by inquiry.  I am not the
mind.  Then what is that mind.  It is the thief, who is parading in
you house.  Ask him: Who are you?  [or ask me, who am I?].  Then
he will run away, depending upon the POWER of that question.


If you ask him:  Sir, who are you?  OR
                       May I know who you are? Sir,  OR
                       Please sit with me and tell me sir, who are you?

                       He will never run away.

Ask him:  WHO, THE BLOODY, ARE YOU?

                       He will run away. 
       
The POWER is the intensity of our sadhana.


Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2010, 04:55:14 PM »
Some time the thief acts one of the family member and leaving the house robbing away everything. The theft is realised
lately. Therefore, it is better to have a police man always in front of the house.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 10:14:34 AM »



Dear ramanaduli,

The thief is within us.  He is called the mind/ego.  Sometimes, he
poses as if he is the policeman.  If we leave all abhimana for this
egoism and contemplate on the Self within us, who is the real
god and guard, the thief will disappear like the moon in the high noon.


Arunachala Siva. 

saraskrishna

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 09:08:13 PM »
As long as everything is happening per our desire around us, we will be enjoying this world.  One will not even think of enquiring who is enjoying or making you experience the enjoyment.  Only when something happens against our wish, there arises a conflict and then on one would call up on God and etc...

To live without the formation of 'I', one would, first of al,l need the Grace, though it is already granted, one would atleast should learn to realize that it is granted and even to learn this... again, it is all in HIS hands or based on our karmas..

Then, one shall not entertain enjoyment and reject sorrow, understanding that both are just diffrent states of mind. If we are strong in this, crying or laughing will be our choice. Like, a cine actor.  Even if one is idle or without happiness or sorrow, he is supposed to ask who feels idle?

To perform action without 'I' notion, this seems to be very difficult. One will be carried away by his actions totally while performing.. One should always remember, we are not doing anything and only HE is doing things through us.  As such, we shall be always in self-enquiry and when something is to be done, HE will make use of us. Not allowing the "I did this" thought creeping in is also important....

At times of fear or extreme sorrow where one is miserable to do enquiry, just allow that sorrow or fear to engulf you freely.  Ask onself, "So What? I know both the fear and sorrow are not real and they cannot do anything to the supreme brahman in me. Brahman in me is beyond time and space."

grieving over loss of something -  "So What?"
Fear of darkness - "So What? " and etc..

if even this doesn't help, as rightly said already the super weapon is Chanting. It is like distracting a child by showing something more attractive than another. When chanting becomes strong, that becomes the best weapon. And, one just needs to go one step more to see where from this chanting sound is coming and try to be there as much as possible...


Btw, this is one difficult question Udai ! It is difficult for us because, we are trying to say what we are experiencing or doing or our effort in making others understand what we fee. But, as such there is no common medicine for all disease, so is the path of supreme knowledge for everyone.  Though we all take different paths, we all will converge at his feet.

Rather it might be easy for Sadgurus to answer - they would easily say "Just Be"

Arunachala Shiva Arunachala Shiva... Arunachala..
Krishnachala Shiva Krishnachala Shiva.. Krishnachala...


Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 09:10:25 AM »



Dear saraskrishna,

Let us look into the Verse 21 of Upadesa Saram. [Upadesa Undiyar].
What is the import of the word 'I'?  Bhagavan Ramana says:

That [one infinite whole that shines thus as I am I] is at all times
[in the past, present and future, and in all eternity] the true import
of the word 'I', because of the absence of our non-existence even
in sleep, which is devoid of any separate 'I'.

Due to our confused knowledge of ourself we frequently use the word
'I' to denote our body or mind, what we actually feel when we say
'I' is our essential self consciousness - our fundamental consciousness of our own being.  Because we are conscious of our being, we feel 'I am', - but because we confuse our being with this
body and mind, we misapply this word 'I' by using it with reference to these extraneous adjuncts. 

When we thus confuse our consciousness of our being with a body,
the resulting mixed consciousness that feels 'I am the body' is the limited and distorted form of consciousness that we call our 'mind'.
The mind or adjunct-bound consciousness is our finite 'I', our individual self or  ego.

Now this abhasa [impurity or unreal entity] creates all problems for us.  Be it suffering or happiness, pain or pleasure, misery or enjoyment -- all are unreal. It makes us wobble in the world like
a boat without a boatman in the strong winds of samasra called the ocean - bhava sagaram. 

There are only two ways out.  We should either grin and bear it and
continue our self inquiry contemplating this body and mind are not me.  Or, if we are weaklings, then we should surrender to the godhead and seek his grace.  As you have correctly said, the Grace is every flowing, like the breeze in the morning, but we should keep the windows open.  We should keep our vessels pure and large, ready to take the flowing grace.  If we do this, then Grace will follow in abundance and this is the state of total surrender.  The Grace like the scorching hot sun, will dry up all the muddy waters called our mind and make it a pure mind, like the lotus blooming in the same hot sun. See Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam, Verse 1.


Arunachala Siva.         

saraskrishna

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 11:03:46 PM »
excellent explanation ! Thanks Subramanian  !! i loved it..  the whole picture is all about removing the confused state or fully eradicating the confused knowledge of referring our body with 'I'. 

Though I is ever present, even during the confused state... even when mingled with family chores, how can one function without this 'confused knowledge' every moment.  This makes me remember that Begging King's story once told by Udai, who forgot he was King, even when told he is the King... 

Ultimate aim is to attain THAT Ramanahood.. just like how the buddhist monks long for Buddhahood..

Arunachala Siva - just to be in his feet !

with love
saras


Subramanian.R

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Re: How to live without allowing "I" notion to form?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 09:35:16 AM »



Dear saraskrishna,

Yesterday, since there was practically not even a single post, I
decided to listen to Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman's discourse
on Sad Darsanam, in Tamizh.  He says a few interesting things:

1.  Trust God.  Negotiate with the world.  You cannot negotiate
with the God and simply trust the world.  The results will be tragedy.

2.  When you start self inquiry or surrender, it does not mean,
you will become a quiet golden man.  You will still have anger,
lust, greed, misery and pains.  It is because, you have to negotiate
with the world and you will err sometimes, and the world will err
some times.

3. One can, in course of time, improve.  Janaki Matha, who had yogic powers right from her young age, had to marry and beget children,
and live in this world without at the same time, not totally discarding her yogic powers.  At some stage, [despite her husband being a nice gentleman], she felt suffocating.  She came to Bhagavan Ramana and asked Him what she could do about this dichotomy, whether she should take sannyasa and come to T'malai or remain in Thanjavur, her place.  Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Why do you want to short-circuit your prarabdha?  It is dangerous.  Give your Heart to me and your body-mind to the world.  Things will improve soon.

So, let us give the Heart to Ramana and the body-mind to the world, thinking always about the Heart and the fact that Big Brother is watching us not to short circuit anything.


Arunachala Siva.