Author Topic: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi  (Read 9199 times)

ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3199
    • View Profile
Brunton felt that Ramana took no stand on issues like the coming war. Brunton seems
particularly upset by an incident when news was brought to the ashram that Italian planes had gunned undefended citizens on the streets of Ethiopia (the Italians invaded Ethiopia in October, 1935).

Brunton reports that Ramana said:

The sage who knows the truth that the Self is indestructible will remain unaffected even if five million people are killed in his presence.Remember the advice of Krishna to Arjuna on the battlefield when disheartened by the thought of the impending slaughter of relatives on the opposing side.

Brunton’s criticisms of Ramana are quite different from what he said in Search:

But perhaps it maybe good for us to have a few men who sit apart from our world of unending activity and survey it for us from afar (Search,289).

Chadwick also made some criticisms of Ramana. He says that Ramana used to chew snuff(A pinch of smokeless tobacco inhaled at a single time), and that when Chadwick knew him he still chewed betel nut (Chadwick, 35).

A more serious ethical shortcoming is that caste was observed in the ashram dining room.On one side the Brahmins were seated, on the other side the rest. Ramana insisted on it (Chadwick, 34).

And Ramana seemed unconcerned regarding World War II. He is reported to have once remarked, “Who knows but that Hitler is a Jnani, a divine instrument.” (Chadwick, 35).


Ramana seemed to believe that a realized person was above ethical obligations of right and wrong. For the jnani there is no good or evil, only spontaneous activity or actionlessactivity of Tao:

What is right and wrong? There is no standard by which to judge something to be right and another to be wrong. Opinions differ according to the nature of the individual and according to the surroundings. They are again ideas and nothing more. Do not worry about them. But get rid of thoughts. If you always remain in the right, then right will prevail in the world (Talks, 428; Feb. 8, 1938).

It is this lack of ethical concern for others that was Brunton's primary criticism of Ramana, and the reason that he chose V. Subrahmanya Iyer as his guru instead of Ramana.

Source: Paul Brunton and Ramana Maharshi by Dr. J. Glenn Friesen Book


ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3199
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 05:30:52 PM »
Everyone knows that Paul bruton wrote some rubbish after his success of "Search In Secret India".

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4840
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 05:39:05 PM »
What are controversial and rubbish, need not be brought forward at all. This is my humble opinion. Its like opening the burial ground and extracting the rotten bones and smelling it.

Spiritually, its not good.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4840
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 05:47:15 PM »
We have read in Puranas, many stories... In Ramayana we have seen how Sage Vishwamitra requested Sri Rama to come and kill those Rakshasas who were creating trouble while conducting Yajnas...

Those Rakshasas not to be literally taken, but, these bits of informations are themselves Rakshasas. They come and may affect a Sadhaka. If one is a Jivan Mukta its fine... all of us are just Sadhakas. These may tend to corrupt the minds and slow our progress and cause trouble to our faith! Why bring forth such Rakshasas ourselves?

Its like, showing porn videos to children.

... just my humble request and opinion... that these bits can be avoided... we are not going to gain anything out of it... these are not going to serve any purposes.... it will only create agitation in our (sadhakas) minds of

Why not we immerse ourselves only in Bhakti and inknowing the True Self... is this not our true duty?

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 05:50:21 PM by Nagaraj »
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4840
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 05:56:31 PM »
Infact, we all would have heard our elders say that one should not read or keep Mahabharata in Homes... thats basically because, these stories, could corrupt the reader. These are to be learnt only from a Guru. There have been some systems.. one cannot take initiations into mantras all by himself, a Guru has to initiate a disciple.

Mantras are not just syllables, they could prove destructive if wrongly used.

Our ancient seers, what ever puranas, we may read, they never recorded any controversial piece of informations, they are wise.

There is a saying ... "nadi moolam rishi moolam" should not be enquired upon at all meaning the source of a river and a rishi should never be enquired or even attempted to even know them at all.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26120
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 06:14:22 PM »

Dear prasanth and Nagaraj,


Paul Brunton - we should be grateful to him, only for the fact,
that he introduced Bhagavan Ramana to the western world.  Otherwise, he was a grass-hopper not sticking to any one Guru
or Path and further he wrote something as his own which are in
fact, Bhagavan Ramana's teachings.  This was the main criticism
of everyone.  But only good thing that we should remember Brunton
is for his introduction of Bhagavan to the other side of the hemisphere.  His role is like Kaikeyi's  [even though such comparisons are odiou] who sent  Rama to the forest and
this gave an opportunity for Rama to kill Ravana, who had taken
50 lacs days of longevity from Siva!

Chadwick wrote what Bhagavan Ramana said about Hitler.  He did not write anything on this further.  A Brahma Jnani is beyond good
and evil.  Hitler was like that and his moksha lied in formation
of a Nazi world. On the way to this goal, he never bothered as to how many were butchered on the way.

You know that there were during Bhagavan's time a few brahmins who liked Hitler.  Because, they felt that Hitler was an Aryan
(Indo-Germanic) and under his rule brahmins in India will become Presidents and Prime Ministers, Generals and Field Marshals!

As rightly opined by Chadwick, even if 50000 people were butchered in front of Bhagavan Ramana, He would have been
expressionless.  Because for a Jnani, everything, the world and its people are all unreal.

Arunachala Siva.         

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26120
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 07:04:29 PM »

Dear srkudai,

Yes. I agree. Such tangent [often untrue] criticisms should be welcome for debate. Recently David Godman quoted one speech
of Osho, where he had said, that "this brahmin in codpiece, went
to the Hill to search a cow to take it as his disciple.....David
grew indignant. However, a lot of comments were exchanged in
his blog." 

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26120
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 07:07:44 PM »

Dear prasanrth,

What would be Bhagavan Ramana's view on the pageant "that
50000 butchers are butchered in His presence."

He would say:  "Oh! A few hundred shadows are axing a few thousand shadows.  Both are unreal."

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4840
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 07:16:21 PM »
There is nothing in debating these topics...

Its a good fruit for the ego to go on...  

Somewhere deep inside we, the 'I' wants such spices to keep going and strengthen itself ...  

some how i would like to keep away from this... we all know what happened between two famous math fights. they left the essential teachings of Guru and his teachings and went about researching to defame each other. The cold war still persists.

Controversies are virus.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 07:21:43 PM by Nagaraj »
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 721
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 07:27:23 PM »
Osho seems to have great reverence for Bhagavan:

Just the other day I was reading a lecture of U. G. Krishnamurti. He says he went to see Ramana Maharshi. He was not attracted - because he was chopping vegetables. Yes, Ramana Maharshi was that kind of man, very ordinary. Chopping vegetables! U. G. Krishnamurti must have gone to see somebody extraordinary sitting on a golden throne or something. Ramana Maharshi just sitting on the floor and chopping vegetables? preparing vegetables for the kitchen! He was very much frustrated. Then another day he went and saw him reading jokes. Finished for ever! This man knows nothing. This man is very ordinary. He left the ashram; it was not worth it. But I would like to say to you: this man, Ramana Maharshi, is one of the greatest Buddhas ever born to the world. That was his Buddhahood in action! U. G. Krishnamurti must have been in search of a pretender. He could not see the ordinariness and the beauty of it and the grace of it. And this same man, U. G. Krishnamurti, lived with Swami Sivanand of Rishikesh for seven years - and that chap was just stupid - and practised yoga with him. And after seven years he recognized that he has nothing; but after seven years, he took seven years. That simply shows that he also has a mighty dull mind. Seven years to see that Sivanand has nothing. Seven seconds are more than enough! And with Ramana Maharshi, seven seconds were enough - because he saw him chopping vegetables or reading jokes, looking at cartoons. That's how the ordinary mind, the egoistic mind functions. The ego is always searching for something bigger, some bigger ego. And the true sage has no ego; he is an ordinary man. He is utterly ordinary - that is his extraordinariness! I would like to say to U. G. Krishnamurti: he should have looked in the eyes of Ramana Maharshi. He looked only at the hands which were chopping vegetables. He should have looked into his eyes - with what love he was chopping the vegetables. He should have looked into his eyes to see what love he was. He was the Real Man. There is only one indication and that is love. But to understand love you have to be a little silent, a little loving, a little open. If you are full of prejudices about how the enlightened man should be, then you will go on missing. You should not have any prejudices. Just look into the eyes of a real man, and suddenly something will start stirring in your heart too. Tears will come to your eyes, your energy will have a great delight, your heart will throb with new vigour. Your soul will spread its wings.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 09:07:49 PM »
Because of loka vasana Paul Brunton and Chadvick felt like that about Bhagawan.To really understand Bhagawan we also must
have uninterrupted Self-knowledge but just having a taste of Self is not enough.
pvssnraju

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4840
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 09:23:08 PM »
Dear I,

Very True sir, and very important point you have mentioned "to have uninterrupted Self-Knowledge and not just having a taste of Self... it is not enough."

Our efforts must be so sincere and continues giving no rooms for vasanas to take us over.

Because of loka vasana Paul Brunton and Chadvick felt like that about Bhagawan.To really understand Bhagawan we also must
have uninterrupted Self-knowledge but just having a taste of Self is not enough.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
If one's mind has peace, the whole world will appear peaceful.

~ Sri Bhagavan

ramanaduli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 09:56:25 PM »
People should go to guru with true thirst and empty,open mind. Then they will get realization.

There is a story..... I heard...longtime ago.. One man wanted to get self realization. After hearing some people he approached one guru. The man started talking, talking and told what he knew from the scriptures etc. etc.
Guru did not utter a word instead he started making tea and poring tea into a cup which was already filled with tea. The cup started over flowing but Guru was continuing. The man got frustrated for not getting a single
 upadesam and left that place. Guru showed his teaching through this action, means anything can be kept in a empty vessels not into a filled one. Poor man he could not understand this great teaching. Bhagavan was also like this guru. He never called people for teaching.
This shows that we should forget all our learning  and go with empty mind and approach with full longing for knowledge. Those who went like this to Bhagavan got immense bliss.


Ramanaduli

ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3199
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2010, 12:58:47 AM »
Well said raju garu.

I agree with you and only because of loka vasanas few are lost in the race.

Anyways as bhagavan says everyone will surely reach source/brahman and for few it takes little more time.

Sri Sadhu Om describes it nicely.

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=4820.0
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 09:39:39 AM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26120
    • View Profile
Re: Paul Brunton And Major Chadwick's primary criticism of Ramana Maharshi
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 09:55:05 AM »


Yes.  One cannot approach Bhagavan Ramana or even His Presence
today, without chitta suddhi.  Pure mind and not judging things
as per world's standard unreal standards.  Sometimes Bhagavan
Ramana's comments or words were depending upon the questioner's mind and thus His comments or words differed from person to person.  All comments and words of Bhagavan Ramana should be viewed accordingly, contextually.

Dear silentgreen,

UGK's views were also to find fault with gurus thus create a sensation.  He could not find any thing faulty in Bhagavan Ramana and hence he did not offer any comment. 

Arunachala Siva.